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change my name posted:The complaints are really stupid though and it looks like no one even seems to know this is a Magic tie-in? So what if they release a book about being in magic college and having relationship problems, just don't play it if you don't find it appealing? The Persona games are massively successful and have all of this stuff too even if I don't personally like it. All I'm saying is I bet the negative feedback about the college-themed subclasses was directly taken from the same people now saying this whole book is a woke waste of space for people who want to recreate anime prom or whatever the gently caress. They should have ignored that feedback as being clearly from the part of their fanbase that is idiots, and just steamrolled ahead to make whatever property they wanted.
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Jul 20, 2021 17:23
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theironjef posted:All I'm saying is I bet the negative feedback about the college-themed subclasses was directly taken from the same people now saying this whole book is a woke waste of space for people who want to recreate anime prom or whatever the gently caress. They should have ignored that feedback as being clearly from the part of their fanbase that is idiots, and just steamrolled ahead to make whatever property they wanted. Eh. It was negatively received in most places, including communities that don't normally whine about that poo poo.
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Jul 20, 2021 17:32
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The problems with Strixhaven seem to be WotC running up on the fact 5e isn't good at things that aren't being D&D-rear end D&D.
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Jul 20, 2021 18:17
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mango sentinel posted:The problems with Strixhaven seem to be WotC running up on the fact 5e isn't good at things that aren't being D&D-rear end D&D. Not having read the book, it's almost certainly this. If I was gonna run a magic school game with an emphasis on social relationships and whatnot I sure as gently caress wouldn't do it 5e.
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Jul 20, 2021 18:28
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Megazver posted:Eh. It was negatively received in most places, including communities that don't normally whine about that poo poo. I'm sure there were dumb chuds saying stupid chud things, but also universal subclasses are mechanically dubious in a system where some classes choose their subclass at level 1, some at level 2, and some at level 3, and they all progress at different paces from there.
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Jul 20, 2021 18:45
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yeah, like this is literally what the point of the UA system is. They realized it didn't work. Now if only they'd realize that at least pure Martial's should all get the Fighter's amount of feats. Or they should hand out more feats in general.
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Jul 20, 2021 19:02
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theironjef posted:All I'm saying is I bet the negative feedback about the college-themed subclasses was directly taken from the same people now saying this whole book is a woke waste of space for people who want to recreate anime prom or whatever the gently caress. They should have ignored that feedback as being clearly from the part of their fanbase that is idiots, and just steamrolled ahead to make whatever property they wanted. Oh, I wasn't a fan of the subclasses either, I thought the system was confusing even if some of the abilities were cool and they managed to match them nicely to the MTG color system. All of the complaints I've seen on twitter are of the "of course these virgin designers would want to make a book where you get to go to the prom, this is for woke women and I'll never buy a wotc product again" variety
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Jul 20, 2021 19:03
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I know it would be a 6.0 thing, but I really wish they'd find a way to make feats more appealing than ASI. It's so much fun to customize how a character plays with a couple feats and have it feel like something you own than a boring ol' +2 to primary stat.
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Jul 20, 2021 19:07
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you should probably just get both imo
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Jul 20, 2021 19:20
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Azathoth posted:I know it would be a 6.0 thing, but I really wish they'd find a way to make feats more appealing than ASI. It's so much fun to customize how a character plays with a couple feats and have it feel like something you own than a boring ol' +2 to primary stat. The correct answer would be to remove ability scores but yeah that's a different edition thing (and something that will never happen)
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Jul 20, 2021 19:21
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They'll probably split up feat gain and ASI gain, like PF2 did.
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Jul 20, 2021 19:23
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Having the new Draconomicon and the Strixhaven book come out within a month of each other feels like a special treat just for me. Hopefully the rest of you get the books you want soon.
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Jul 20, 2021 19:49
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PeterWeller posted:I'm sure there were dumb chuds saying stupid chud things, but also universal subclasses are mechanically dubious in a system where some classes choose their subclass at level 1, some at level 2, and some at level 3, and they all progress at different paces from there. When I did universal archetypes for my Black Company 5E rules, I also rewrote the classes so that everyone got archetype abilities at the same levels. Each class then had a subset of the archetypes they were eligible to take, so that it was possible to limit certain ones. Granted, the setting doesn’t really have traditional spellcasters, so it was much easier to rework when most classes were just different variations on martial classes. I’m glad they’re trying to innovate, but they either need to make bigger changes or smaller ones. Half-hearted redesigns aren’t going to make anyone very happy; those happy with the status quo won’t like them, and anyone wanting this sort of thing wants it to be a ground-up reworking and not something pasted over the existing rules.
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Jul 20, 2021 19:53
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Ravnica I think worked well, but Strixhaven does not really interest me as a setting book. It's also the first 5e Setting book I probably won't get, unless I learn later on that there is cool enough stuff in it. What I am really curious about is next year, as 5 setting books seems wild. Particularly since two of them are planned to be brand new ones.
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Jul 20, 2021 20:12
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Yusin posted:Ravnica I think worked well, but Strixhaven does not really interest me as a setting book. It's also the first 5e Setting book I probably won't get, unless I learn later on that there is cool enough stuff in it. Ravnica is a decent sourcebook on the setting but doesn't really give solid hooks into the players actually affecting or interacting with it, and the guild system is poorly conceived/implemented.
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Jul 20, 2021 20:42
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Megazver posted:I wish they just made a stand-alone MTG system about planewalkers, even if it's on the basic 5e-chassis. Ravnica already didn't feel like a great fit for 5e, IMO, and School for World-Traversing Uberwizards seems such a awkward fit for the system. World-Traversing uberwizards is an awkward fit in a game that already has a plethora of magic users, spelljammer ships, teleportation, and traveling to different planes? Yusin posted:Ravnica I think worked well, but Strixhaven does not really interest me as a setting book. It's also the first 5e Setting book I probably won't get, unless I learn later on that there is cool enough stuff in it. Yeah, Strixhaven is a really forgettable setting. I guess its strength is that its so bland it is setting agnostic, but I'd rather have something like Dark Sun that has a very different feel to it. I'd love a Phyrexia setting or campaign book, but that's 1) probably too close in 'horror' flavor to the Ravenloft book, and 2) will probably encourage too many edgelords.
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Jul 20, 2021 20:50
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From the way they are setting up Strix, it mostly just seems like it's a university that you could literally skin and put anywhere in your world.
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Jul 20, 2021 21:17
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Theros seems like a really great setting to me. Is it basically considered the best of the “new” settings?
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Jul 20, 2021 21:21
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A full Amonkhet book would have been cool
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Jul 20, 2021 21:23
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nelson posted:Theros seems like a really great setting to me. Is it basically considered the best of the “new” settings? I think Theros is a really anemic book and thought consensus on it was pretty weak but I run in some odd circles.
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Jul 20, 2021 21:28
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I never read Ravnica mainly because it struck me as they could've done a book on Sigil but decided to get into cross-promotion with Magic instead.
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Jul 20, 2021 21:31
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nelson posted:Theros seems like a really great setting to me. Is it basically considered the best of the “new” settings? I've heard far more praise for Ravnica, honestly. I think Wildermount is the best of the "new" setting books by being an updated, fresh take on D&D that's easily accessible and friendly to new players, the same as 4e's Nentir Vale (which inspired Wildermount greatly.)
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Jul 20, 2021 21:33
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nelson posted:Theros seems like a really great setting to me. Is it basically considered the best of the “new” settings? Idk how the sourcebooks are, but Theros from the cards/storyline was rad. Most of the MtG settings are, honestly. There's only been a couple of planes that were stinkers, out of dozens.
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Jul 20, 2021 21:42
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PeterWeller posted:I never read Ravnica mainly because it struck me as they could've done a book on Sigil but decided to get into cross-promotion with Magic instead. I really love Ravnica as a Magic setting and was excited for the Rav book. I was disappointed in the book, but it's not bad, just not as good as I wanted. Honestly, I'd rather they do a decent but disappointing Rav book than them making me actively angry with the Sigil book current WotC would produce. I've just been adapting adapting 2e stuff for my current Sigil adventure.
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Jul 20, 2021 21:45
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Dienes posted:World-Traversing uberwizards is an awkward fit in a game that already has a plethora of magic users, spelljammer ships, teleportation, and traveling to different planes? quote:School for World-Traversing Uberwizards seems such a awkward fit for the system. World-Traversing Uberwizards, if they actually managed to create 5e-compatible systems that accurately reflected what they are like in the MTG, would indeed thematically fit with a lot of other gonzo D&D lore. The current 5e rules, however, are fairly ill-suited to represent what planeswalkers and just mages in general are like in MTG lore. All the martials at Strixhaven are just, like, 'wtf are they doing here, are they the cleaning staff?' and the D&D casters have magic systems that doesn't really reflect how magic works in MTG and should probably be level 5-10 to be at the power level of Year 1 students. Theros worked better because ultimately, it's just Mythic Greece. Strixhaven being centered on magic users though really throws the light on the poor compatibility.
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Jul 20, 2021 21:46
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I was having a blast running a War of the Spark Ravnica campaign, which I did episodically by jumping between different "theatres of war". This gave the players an excuse to change characters/guild each episode. Found it worked well and the players enjoyed playing different mono-Guild parties each episode.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:03
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Dexo posted:Now if only they'd realize that at least pure Martial's should all get the Fighter's amount of feats. Or they should hand out more feats in general. I think feats are a bit too strong, but a system like Warlock Invocation's for martials would be a great idea.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:08
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Megazver posted:They'll probably split up feat gain and ASI gain, like PF2 did. A twisted grey creature with a vertical mouth crawls into the thread with eyes made of stars. "What if... there were no... ability scoresssss", it hisses.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:09
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Mendrian posted:A twisted grey creature with a vertical mouth crawls into the thread with eyes made of stars. Pathfinder 2e is very close - the only thing ability scores effectively do in the system is implementing a cap of +8 ability bonuses due to how the ASIs work. If you could make that language work clearly somehow else, you wouldn't need ability scores and could just track modifiers instead.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:14
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There are some things that are just "This is DND" and so they will never ever be removed no matter what. Ability scores (and the six in particular), races, classes, spell slots/levels, D20 being the main die... Those will never change significantly. Though the "spells memorized" thing did surprise me in 5E, though I don't think they'll do more than a step away from Vancian casting.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:17
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Yeah, I don't have a huge problem with ability scores, I just don't like how there's a choice between feats and ASI at leveling points. That feels unfun because it's always so much better to choose the boring ASI A parallel system where you get feats every now and again while leveling and that is used to flavor your character would be a ton of fun.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:26
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DourCricket posted:There are some things that are just "This is DND" and so they will never ever be removed no matter what. Well yes of course. The only things ability scores actually do that couldn't be accomplished with flat modifiers per class: *they gate feats. We could probably do without this anyway. *They ensure certain classes are marginally the best at certain skills. You can probably undo this by using something like backgrounds to make a Brainy wizard or a Brawny one. Of course grogs hate this because unusual character archetypes require a puzzle to be completed first. *They tie certain saving throw modifiers to certain classes. This is just stupid and is the opposite of character diversity anyway. I would absolutely settle for a system that made ability scores an afterthought in the absence of their removal.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:27
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5e could trivially refitted to work without ability scores, and it would be an improvement, but it's one of the few sacred cows I don't see being cut. Although... I think it could happen if people somehow managed to convince Twitter that the ability scores in and of themselves are as ~*problematic*~ as the racial ability scores were. (Personally, don't much care about the problematic angle, but I love the change because of how it increases character diversity and have implemented something very similar even before WOTC announced they would do the same.) So if you guys can come up with a good angle on that... Megazver fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jul 20, 2021 |
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Jul 20, 2021 22:27
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Megazver posted:5e could trivially refitted to work without ability scores, and it would be an improvement, but it's one of the few sacred cows I don't see being cut. I mean Intelligence is a social construct so we could start there.
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Jul 20, 2021 22:33
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If I was king--like a real king, not your resident idiot king--I'd get rid of skills and detach ability scores from class powers. All fighters are equally fighty regardless of strength, all wizards are equally magic regardless of intelligence, etc. Use 3-18 range and roll under on D20 for ability checks like in The Good Old DaysTM. That way you can play all the brain knights and muscle wizards you want, you can roll for abilities if you want, you don't need two numbers for each ability score, feats don't have to compete with ASIs, and there's a divide between roll high for combat specific stuff and roll low for exploration and interaction stuff that strikes me as nice and intuitive. Have NWPs be an optional rule for those who really want a set of defined skills.
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Jul 21, 2021 00:23
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PeterWeller posted:If I was king--like a real king, not your resident idiot king--I'd get rid of skills and detach ability scores from class powers. All fighters are equally fighty regardless of strength, all wizards are equally magic regardless of intelligence, etc. Use 3-18 range and roll under on D20 for ability checks like in The Good Old DaysTM. That way you can play all the brain knights and muscle wizards you want, you can roll for abilities if you want, you don't need two numbers for each ability score, feats don't have to compete with ASIs, and there's a divide between roll high for combat specific stuff and roll low for exploration and interaction stuff that strikes me as nice and intuitive. Have NWPs be an optional rule for those who really want a set of defined skills. Gonna copy this post and respond to it over in the old-school thread, since it's relevant to a thing I've been thinking about.
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Jul 21, 2021 00:45
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Dexo posted:yeah, like this is literally what the point of the UA system is.
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Jul 21, 2021 00:59
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Froghammer posted:Honestly giving all characters a free feat at level 1 solves a lot of 5e's weird class disparity and opens up a lot of options. I highly recommend it. It also would mean I would get to play something other than a Vhuman or Tasha Custom Origin in most campaigns. LIke I would love to play as a Tiefling or what have you but I need the feat to get like 90% of my builds working before lvl 8 so...guess I'm back to being a dirty humie again.
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Jul 21, 2021 01:14
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The best martial art is "The martial art that no one knows, not even me, the master of this martial art I don't know."
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Jul 21, 2021 01:19
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Megazver posted:World-Traversing Uberwizards, if they actually managed to create 5e-compatible systems that accurately reflected what they are like in the MTG, would indeed thematically fit with a lot of other gonzo D&D lore. What do you think would need to be changed to accommodate them? I think if we were going for a Garth One-Eye or Jeska or Urza or Bolas, yeah. But since the Sundering/Mending, planeswalkers are pretty much normal mages (not immortal, not omnipotent, not metaphysical, etc.) that can teleport to other planes, and even that ability is limited.
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Jul 21, 2021 01:37
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