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I don't care how stupid this question is: Are Rocky Forests Forests?
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Jun 18, 2021 19:02
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:58 |
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You can use Mercenaries to attack their own settlements. That cannot be the intention.
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Jun 18, 2021 22:28
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Kazzah posted:A city harvests the yields of every tile next to or under its districts. When you attach a province to a city, that outpost functions as part of the city, and contributes its yields (and pop) to the city. Also the city can construct districts adjacent to that outpost. You can even construct unique, limited districts this way; the rule is one per territory, not one per city. I should play around with them, because my biggest complaint was that tech felt way too slow. I was Industrial in culture and still researching Medieval/Early Modern techs by the end of the demo.
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Jun 18, 2021 23:22
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Mayor Dave posted:I should play around with them, because my biggest complaint was that tech felt way too slow. I was Industrial in culture and still researching Medieval/Early Modern techs by the end of the demo. Yeah currently to get anywhere in tech you really have to manually assign citizens as researchers (or set a custom policy for them). The new stability balance means that (barring some cheesy garrison spam with city watch) you can't run all that many research quarters until pretty late, so you're leaning pretty heavily on things like the House of Scribes and Manuscript Atelier to give you extra researcher slots.
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Jun 19, 2021 09:03
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I like a lot of things about this, but boy combat is weird and clunky. First oddity, I moved some units out of my capital, and despite the fact I couldn't see the ai units in the fog over the border, they knew I moved, declared war on 'my' turn, moved to siege the city, and then I couldn't move my units back to help because I hadn't discovered organized warfare. Medieval era I knew the Mongols would be coming and built up a 20 unit defense army, they invaded with 30+ horse archers. 50 units in one battle wasn't epic, it was unit carpet on a level that would shame Civ. Plus, all the Mongols went first and completely rolled over my medieval army to the point where I'm not clear how I could have theoretically won. Terrain was meaningless, every square was occupied, it was just a mess.
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Jun 19, 2021 12:58
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Fintilgin posted:I like a lot of things about this, but boy combat is weird and clunky. The Huns pulled that exact poo poo on me in my game. I wheeled all my units around, had to incorporate a city state, because the units I rented would only be able to move through their city (by attacking it), and wheel them down. Then I turtled up my siege for a couple of turns and cracked their smaller armies down to get them to white peace out, which they apparently took as a humiliating defeat. For all sorts of reasons, combat in this game is stupid. Auto resolve is even more lopsided against you than it is in Total Warfare, and that's fuckin' saying something.
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Jun 19, 2021 13:17
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Fintilgin posted:I like a lot of things about this, but boy combat is weird and clunky. All turns are simultaneous and it seems like whoever attacks into the enemy gets the first turn in the actual battle. It's like multiplayer civ vi meta where everybody on simultaneous turns tries to use ranged units first and it's a clicks per second meta, except on steroids.
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Jun 19, 2021 13:51
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Fintilgin posted:I like a lot of things about this, but boy combat is weird and clunky. The most ideal way of handling Mongol horse archers is to have arquebusiers or other gunpowder units (if you're Joseon you can be spicy with line infantry) whose cumulative firepower delete multiple units a turn at long range. If on par, have as much districts/garrisons built up on the central city plaza because those tiles will have walls/fences up. Between the urban area giving cover and the walls adding more cover, even your militia will be able to start bouncing arrows off their chest nevermind the actual fighting units. Crossbowmen will be able to shoot down horse archers but it will be a bit ugly and require positioning. On open ground, well it requires abusing rivers, forests, and high ground to be able to withstand it. Knights weirdly enough would probably work very well because their higher innate combat strength would mitigate damage when attacked and it would mean they receive less damage from the counter-attack. Speaking of militia, they have combat bonuses for standing on friendly districts and they'll retain this when attacking. In other words, they can legitimately punch horse archers to death if they're on par (or hilariously a tier above) with the horse archers. Conscripts ofc will delete horse archers because they're industrial era gunpowder militia.
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Jun 19, 2021 22:13
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What the hell is the logic behind the flag? I can almost understand it on city battles, but why does it exist in other battles? Who decides who has the flag? Why does it exist in the first place? Who thought this was a good idea, and can they justify it with an essay?
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Jun 20, 2021 00:26
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Flag's there to make it possible for the attacker to end battles without having to kill all of the defending units. You can manipulate the position of the flag by attacking enemy stacks from different directions. You can see the preview of the battlefield by holding down the move button and attack button and hovering over the enemy stack.
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Jun 20, 2021 01:08
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Veryslightlymad posted:What the hell is the logic behind the flag? I can almost understand it on city battles, but why does it exist in other battles? Win battles without stackwiping the enemy. I'm not sure if it pushes the enemy army backwards on the overworld map but it definitely drops their war enthusiasm
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Jun 20, 2021 09:08
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Deltasquid posted:Win battles without stackwiping the enemy. But it does stackwipe the enemy. Or it'll stackwipe you, if you're the one in possession of the flag. Which seems really poorly thought out when you put it next to reinforcements. Because you might have a flag that could fall to a couple of piddly enemies, but say, 4 whole units at over 10 power stronger than the enemies coming in from the side, who can't possibly lose, but since they don't generate their own flag, they just sort of instantly surrender if they don't get to the flag. Which is loving terrible and absolutely against the whole point of "having reinforcements" in the first place. EDIT Then of course after this happens, and I try to reload (since there's no way for me, the player, to have any reason to suspect a mechanic that dumb existed) it crashes the game repeatedly, so I guess I'm just done with the demo because I literally can't load my old save.
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Jun 20, 2021 15:18
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I believe it only stackwipes you if you don't have anyplace to retreat, I've definitely had units retreat from or see enemy units get kicked out as a result of flag captures. On the other hand there was one battle where the enemy forced me into a fight where I only had one space to deploy my 4-unit army because I was pressed up against a sheer cliff with a 1-tile indentation, and it got wiped out on the their first turn and I lost everything. I was very careful about positioning my armies in the field from then on.
Magil Zeal fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jun 30, 2021 |
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Jun 20, 2021 23:31
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I should have had my entire country to retreat to behind the attack. I'd load it and check but it won't load my saves anymore. So.... guess I'll wait for the game to actually come out.
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Jun 20, 2021 23:46
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Soooooooooooooooooooooo ... .. how's the AI?!
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Jul 21, 2021 17:01
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Not out for a month yet
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Jul 21, 2021 19:24
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I thought it was firmly in “good for a 4X” territory during the various testing phases. More so macro than micro, but not incompetent at either.
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Jul 22, 2021 01:01
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"can play the game" is a low bar, but that's where I'm at
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Jul 22, 2021 01:57
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Economically it falls off pretty hard in the midgame, at least at the normal difficulties. It needs the Civ-style difficulty bonuses to keep up.
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Jul 31, 2021 03:05
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Have the devs given any feedback on the beta? Feels like the beta happened and the devs kinda went dark and the game is almost out.
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Jul 31, 2021 04:49
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Veryslightlymad posted:The Huns pulled that exact poo poo on me in my game. I wheeled all my units around, had to incorporate a city state, because the units I rented would only be able to move through their city (by For all sorts of reasons, combat in this game is stupid. Auto resolve is even more lopsided against you than it is in Total Warfare, and that's fuckin' saying something. isn't this game developed by the same studio that did endless legend? a game that has notoriously horrible combat and autoresolve that's MASSIVELY weighted towards having an army that's 90% ranged with 10% melee to interfere with the pathing AI? i wouldn't say i'm so surprised, but it's disappointing 
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Jul 31, 2021 05:34
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Fur20 posted:isn't this game developed by the same studio that did endless legend? a game that has notoriously horrible combat and autoresolve that's MASSIVELY weighted towards having an army that's 90% ranged with 10% melee to interfere with the pathing AI? Some of the implementation and matchups weren't good, but I thought EL's combat did the impossible. It had 1 unit per tile combat without Unit Spam Carpet, it had instanced battles that still respected the local terrain, and those battles hit the sweet spot of being interesting enough without undermining the strategic layer, or taking forever to play out. IMO of course.
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Jul 31, 2021 18:09
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An update on some of their last minute adjustments https://www.pcgamesn.com/humankind/final-adjustments
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Aug 4, 2021 10:36
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Charlz Guybon posted:An update on some of their last minute adjustments They didn't post numbers so a lot of that text is meaningless. In a vacuum, those are things that needed to be changed. Am I the only one who reads that as "we nerfed Korea into oblivion", since they mention balance to nations and balance to research. Korea being able to effortlessly make triple digit science cities was busted, and made zero sense.
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Aug 4, 2021 13:39
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The numbers have been bad for multiple reasons every test so I don’t really expect them to get them right any time soon. The game is still fun to play as a very pretty/relaxing empire building sandbox though. It’s just not the best strategy game.
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Aug 4, 2021 14:01
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Adding a whole new system (pollution) post-beta-test seems like a poor choice. Like I thought the entire point of the concept of beta was that your product was feature complete. At least it doesn't sound like the kind of system that'll be super impactful, so it probably won't matter if it's badly balanced.
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Aug 4, 2021 14:39
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Gort posted:At least it doesn't sound like the kind of system that'll be super impactful, so it probably won't matter if it's badly balanced. 4x.txt
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Aug 4, 2021 14:44
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My first experience with a pollution system was Civ 3 where it added a bunch of pointless busywork and felt tedious and unfun. I like the environmental impact system of Civ 6 GS and how it plays with the natural disaster system though.
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Aug 4, 2021 14:48
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Gort posted:Adding a whole new system (pollution) post-beta-test seems like a poor choice. Like I thought the entire point of the concept of beta was that your product was feature complete. “Beta” is more about marketing these days than any software development milestone. I miss those days too.
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Aug 4, 2021 14:48
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Soylent Pudding posted:My first experience with a pollution system was Civ 3 where it added a bunch of pointless busywork and felt tedious and unfun. I like the environmental impact system of Civ 6 GS and how it plays with the natural disaster system though. I really wish there was a slider to make the disasters in civ 6 way harsher because right now they feel so toothless compared to what will actually happen irl.
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Aug 4, 2021 16:06
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Gort posted:Adding a whole new system (pollution) post-beta-test seems like a poor choice. Like I thought the entire point of the concept of beta was that your product was feature complete. None of the play tests thus far have gone far into the time period where it would matter - the Poe Beta ended as soon as you hit Modern, so at best you would have had twenty turns to deal with pollution. I can’t imagine the beta would have gotten effective information on the system. Also, there were a bunch of other features not present/allowed in the Poe Beta - no world generation and no AI selection being the big ones to me. Everyone got the same map with the same AIs in the same starting locations. Overall, I’m glad to hear of this response, even if there’s no hard data with it, because the in-game tutorials left a lot to be desired and the pace through eras was poorly done, so them admitting that those need to be fixed is a good sign.
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Aug 4, 2021 16:37
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People seem to keep expecting a game that no one has made or seemed capable of making (short of having very simple units and gameplay). Civ 6s AI sucks. So do the Endless games. So, frankly, did Civ 5. Has someone made a good, robust (i.e. not some time limited thing like Old World) 4x in the last 10 years with a good, non-cheating AI?
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Aug 4, 2021 16:44
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SlyFrog posted:Has someone made a good, robust (i.e. not some time limited thing like Old World) 4x in the last 10 years with a good, non-cheating AI? I'm of the opinion that it's impossible, once system complexity passes a certain point Functional wargames-in-4x-skin like like Warlock 2 (... modded) or Gladius have reasonably competent 'spam units to attack the player' AI, because the strategic management is incredibly simplified. Instead of hoping devs will recalibrate the genre, I've been trying to recalibrate my expectations to treat 4x games like the Anno series or some other city builder, where it's just a tool to enjoy watching your city/nation/interstellar empire grow, without any significant expectation of an AI that will cause you more problems than your own misunderstanding of some game mechanic. Asymmetric gameplay seems like the only way to create a really challenging sandbox 4x where you can struggle against an 'unfair' simulation for the duration of the game to achieve victory. There are a few games of this nature out there (Sorcerer King?), but it's not an area that's been explored much, because the genre tends towards a sort of 'realistic' view of whatever its trying to simulate (often real world history). ... probably because frankly the vast majority of people who enjoy these games could give a flying gently caress about 'functional AI', judging by Steam numbers for Civ 5/6 (long decried by goons as horrible awful games with bad dumb AI, yet consistently posting high player numbers on Steam) Why spend time and effort on an incredibly hard problem if your customer base doesn't actually care about it? 
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Aug 4, 2021 19:10
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Haven't there been a lot of complaints about Civ 6's AI recently? i.e. after they hosed it up in the last patch they did. Mostly because the effect on barbarians, admittedly.
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Aug 4, 2021 19:33
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Civ 6’s AI has been bad from day 1. It’s probably better now than then but not, like, significantly. 5 is also kinda bad but not to quite the same degree and it has mods like Vox Populi that actually make the AI quite a bit better. I’ve done the same as victrix - stop treating these as competitive strategy games, just enjoy building a cool looking empire. It works way better within the scope of how the games actually work.
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Aug 4, 2021 21:01
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AnEdgelord posted:I really wish there was a slider to make the disasters in civ 6 way harsher because right now they feel so toothless compared to what will actually happen irl. There is a disaster intensity slider in civ 6. You can also turn on apocalypse mode.
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Aug 4, 2021 22:02
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HappyCamperGL posted:There is a disaster intensity slider in civ 6. You can also turn on apocalypse mode. Doesn't go high enough and apocalypse mode completely abandons the "climate change" conceit in favor of raining meteors from the sky. Sea levels should go way higher, desertification should be more wide spread and storms should be both more intense and more frequent.
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Aug 4, 2021 22:09
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Didn’t civ 4 have pretty competent AI but mostly bc combat was extremely simple?
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Aug 4, 2021 22:19
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FrancisFukyomama posted:Didn’t civ 4 have pretty competent AI but mostly bc combat was extremely simple? combat's really only one part of it - often the most immediately visible (and complained about) the rest of it (especially diplomacy and general ai behavior wrt winning) is often much worse, but people care less if the ai is objectively bad at winning as long as it's subjectively good at playing "correctly" correctly being "whatever doesn't annoy the casual fan/historical grog/mechanical nerd" I really think a not insignificant percentage of 4x players want an ai that helps create interesting stories, not one that presents a tough mechanical challenge (hello dwarf fortress, rimworld, crusader kings &c) currently it feels like most 4x ai has two states: irrelevant speed bump present for flavor and the illusion of action, or difficulty boosted mechanical obstacle for game breaking 1%ers to overcome through superior play (/gameplay exploits because these games are a house of cards)
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Aug 4, 2021 22:31
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 10:58 |
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FrancisFukyomama posted:Didn’t civ 4 have pretty competent AI but mostly bc combat was extremely simple?
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Aug 4, 2021 23:18
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