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ZShakespeare)
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Bleck posted:hmm I wonder why that is. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Probably because it would not get enough vote to the govt in power to list it as an official language when they enacted the official language act of 1969 or the official language act of 1985. The one is 1969 came after the Royal Commission on Bilingualism and Biculturalism which was partially created after French Quebecois burned the effigy of then CN President Donald Gordon after he commented on why there were 0 francophones within the 17 Vice-President of the crown corporation by saying French-Canadians did not have the necessary competencies to hold upper management positions at CN. It also happened during the Quiet revolution. As for why French and not other languages? Because nearly nobody cared about all those other language back then. Starks posted:I think you're confusing systemic vs. individual racism. I'm not arguing against Simon's appointment and I agree the practice of hiring bilingual GGs is inherently racist because indigenous students aren't offered the same education, to put it very mildly. The rule is absolutely discriminatory, I just don't think you can say the people writing to the commission are motivated by race if they would do the same thing regardless of ethnicity. This should be obvious but you and a few others in this thread have a serious case of QDS (Quebec Derangement Syndrome). People in Quebec mostly do complain because they know she never would have been selected if her non native language was French instead of English. supersnowman fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 00:40
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supersnowman posted:Because nearly nobody cared about all those other language back then , but the racism happened soooo long ago when we didn't know any better and to do something about it now would be the real travesty. ?? e. just so this post isn't pure snark, "the legal apparatus of the conquerors said it was ok" doesn't make it a compelling moral argument. Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 01:05 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 01:02
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Listen you guys, it's extremely not racist that the official languages of Canada are English and French and no Indigenous languages are included, and I think we should all respect that. It's just one of those very not-racist accidents of fate, no need to consider it any deeper than that, right? I'm also very intrigued by This Guy Who Totally Exists who would be upset if a French/Indigenous speaker were selected as GG without being able to speak English. Why would that bother me or any other Anglophone? Frankly, if the GG speaks only Indigenous languages I don't give a poo poo, because it's simply completely irrelevant.
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Jul 21, 2021 01:12
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I'm stunned at the wildly pro-GG terms of this discussion so far. Am I that wrong to have presumed that most of us posting here feel that the GG post should be abolished entirely? Noblesse Obliged posted:Frankly I hope she refuses to speak both official languages That'd be a start. Arcsquad12 posted:poor defenseless Franglish. Arcsquad12 posted:They want sovereignty, they can have it as a rump state as racist and bigoted as they like in a small, concentrated area that is easy to quarantine from the rest of the world. I couldn't give any less of a poo poo about whether or not Simon speaks French, and sovereignty advocates definitely have a world of reckoning to do (re: "nobody's free til everybody's free"), but I'm not sure revisiting genocidal fantasies of X glorious anglo past is a healthy outlet.
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Jul 21, 2021 01:22
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Jam Band Death Cult posted:I'm stunned at the wildly pro-GG terms of this discussion so far. Am I that wrong to have presumed that most of us posting here feel that the GG post should be abolished entirely? The governor general is almost completely bound by convention and will almost certainly seek the advice of an army of constitutional law professors if she has any questions as to what convention dictates. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, especially if "fixing" it requires consent from the House of Commons, the Senate, and all ten provincial legislatures, and the spending of political capital that that would entail.
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Jul 21, 2021 01:27
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Jam Band Death Cult posted:I'm stunned at the wildly pro-GG terms of this discussion so far. Am I that wrong to have presumed that most of us posting here feel that the GG post should be abolished entirely? I doubt anyone here who's posting in favour of Mary Simon is opposed to the position being eliminated entirely, because those are two entirely different conversations.
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Jul 21, 2021 01:31
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Define broke.
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Jul 21, 2021 01:37
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I like the governor general as a head of state because it's better than having an elected President.
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Jul 21, 2021 01:39
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PT6A posted:
You are so lost bro. Anglos complain about Trudeau answering questions in French, in Quebec: https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/01/19/trudeaus-french-answers-to-english-questions-draw-language-complaints.html And let’s not forget the guy who was getting death threats for asking Calgary transit to accept (automatically printed) French tickets: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/hate-follows-calgary-transit-flaw-1.5290646 If Trudeau appointed an Indigenous GG that didn’t speak English they’d probably have to send in RCMP reinforcements to Sussex Drive lol. Aren’t you from BC or something? Maybe sit this one out
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Jul 21, 2021 01:44
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Both [anglos and francos] are....bad?
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Jul 21, 2021 01:48
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Jam Band Death Cult posted:I'm stunned at the wildly pro-GG terms of this discussion so far. Am I that wrong to have presumed that most of us posting here feel that the GG post should be abolished entirely? Perhaps it is unhealthy for me. I just despise the language watchdog and the way it is used in this country. 400 complaints and the watchdog launching an investigation seems ridiculous to me so I'll use hyperbole and spell out my disgust for the pro-French hypocrites abusing the watchdog system yet again out of some ridiculous persecution complex over their allegedly dying language. I rag on Quebec a lot because they make it easy for me at work. Post Quesrion period media scrums with Bloc MPs gives me a direct earful of bad faith arguments about defending Quebec culture with a French journalist corps more than willing to stack their questions to get juicy audio bits for their headlines. Listening to that day in and day out for weeks at a time leaves me wishing they would just shut the gently caress up and leave the rest of the country alone. Thankfully this country operates on a round robin system of stupidity so whenever the Bloc and Sovereignty types die down I get a new furor from Kenney bemoaning how unfair Alberta is treated by the mean ole eastern provinces, or about Ford whining that it's everyone else's fault he can't read at a grade 10 level and therefore he takes his policy advisements from Arthur the 10 year old down the street, or Pallister literally and unapologetically defending genocide, or Horgan pretending that there are no problems in BC and that people dying from heat waves is merely a "poo poo happens they were old" reaction. My anger at Quebec will probably subside I'm about a week when the next media clusterfuck comes through at work and I get to listen to it and fantasize about how much quieter and simpler my job would be if these fucks were muzzled. As for pro Governor General, well, yes and no. It's another symbolic position that Trudeau has used first to appoint a famous female scientist and now the first Indigenous GG. The whole thing is an optics game and it is working as intended by drawing out the bigots who will criticize the appointments Trudeau makes and then open them up to easy "you're sexist and/or racist" rebuttals. The good that can come from Simon being in the position is that she can bring the message of Indigenous life in Canada to a wider audience during functions and whatnot. Being in a place where your voice can be heard is at least a small step in the right direction.
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Jul 21, 2021 02:10
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Starks posted:You are so lost bro. Anglos complain about Trudeau answering questions in French, in Quebec: "The morons out west do dumb poo poo therefore we should do it too" <-- that's you, that's your logic. Yeah, gently caress the Anglos who harass people using French in western Canada too. I've seen it plenty, it's disgusting. We need a country where our multilingualism unites us rather than divides us and anyone can use any official language anywhere in the country without catching poo poo. I don't think we get there by freaking out that the bilingual GG is not the right kind of bilingual. That being said, as a matter of practice I would think that questions asked in one language should be answered in that language. Jason Kenney responds in French when asked a question in French, and that's Jason Kenney the king of truck-nut assholes!
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Jul 21, 2021 02:15
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PT6A posted:"The morons out west do dumb poo poo therefore we should do it too" <-- that's you, that's your logic. you are completely insufferable. I did not post that to justify anything, just to show you that there are anglos who get mad about French being an official language, which you (ridiculously) implied did not exist. I’ll drop it now because I see this can just go on forever lol.
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Jul 21, 2021 02:26
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Starks posted:you are completely insufferable. I did not post that to justify anything, just to show you that there are anglos who get mad about French being an official language, which you (ridiculously) implied did not exist. I’ll drop it now because I see this can just go on forever lol. lol indeed. Of course Anglo assholes exist. We tell them to gently caress off, because their garbage opinion isn't worth poo poo. We don't entertain the notion that perhaps they have some point that ought to be listened to, some grievance that actually needs to be addressed. That's the difference.
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Jul 21, 2021 02:27
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The GG should communicate their wishes only by an elaborate and ritualized interpretive dance.
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Jul 21, 2021 02:42
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I think that the Governor General ought to govern, generally speaking.
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Jul 21, 2021 02:47
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Nah the GG should just keep reading the bedtime story from the big book at the senate at the start of Parliament. It's such a drawn out infantilizing ceremony that I couldn't think of a better representation of our government.
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Jul 21, 2021 02:53
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https://twitter.com/the_ns/status/1417529374669164550 Just sayin' (Not my tweet)
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Jul 21, 2021 03:50
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I think Governor General should be picked through a 13 person, winner take all battle royale style cage match. Each province and territory may send their most worthy candidate.
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Jul 21, 2021 04:01
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EngineerJoe posted:I like the governor general as a head of state because it's better than having an elected President. A million times this And you can't just abolish the position because having a head of state and the head of government combined into one person is a fast track to a dictatorship (seriously look at the list of countries that tried it, I think the US is the only one that didn't turn into a dictatorship and uh, it's been a fairly narrow escape a few times). You need that seperation.
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Jul 21, 2021 04:11
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Guest2553 posted:, but the racism happened soooo long ago when we didn't know any better and to do something about it now would be the real travesty. It's not a moral argument it's a "Here's why some Franco will make a fuss about it" argument. I don't think it really a good reason since we'd be better off changing the constitution to no longer have a GG related to the Queen of Canada but since 2 different government decided the country being bilingual was important enough to warrant making a law about it, some people will want the government to follow up on it when they appoint people on such post. On top of that, there is the "free" jab many Quebecois will try to get in on top of it because the first such law was put in the book while notably hated (In Quebec) ex-prime minister Pierre Trudeau was in power and his son is not appointing a non French speaking GG. Is it bullshit? Of course it is but if you're gonna make such an obvious PR move to get some brownie points during current events, you pretty much have to expect people to throw some BS at it to ding you with a few negative points too. Alctel posted:A million times this Also, even if you replace it with something else instead of just abolishing it, you also have the issue of opening the constitution to do it and I don't think any federal aprty has the political will to touch that. supersnowman fucked around with this message at 04:17 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 04:13
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Also for perspective there are around 1000 complaints a year re: french not being properly represented in the public service so 400 is actually lower than I would have thought tbh, some people will complain about Literally Anything
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Jul 21, 2021 04:17
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Alctel posted:Also for perspective there are around 1000 complaints a year re: french not being properly represented in the public service so 400 is actually lower than I would have thought tbh, some people will complain about Literally Anything There is a guy living in Gatineau who count for hundreds of these. He used to work where they receive the complaints and he's essentially playing a "you fuckers can't even follow your own rules" card. It's completely stupid but the guy didn't make the rules so he does not feel like he's wrong.
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Jul 21, 2021 04:33
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"you fuckers can't even follow your own rules" is SOP for the federal government, regardless of ruling party.
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Jul 21, 2021 05:16
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supersnowman posted:Probably because it would not get enough vote to the govt in power to list it as an official language Yeah, I wonder why the Indigenous population is so small. Real head scratcher, there.
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Jul 21, 2021 05:34
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I see the French-Canadian hate is alive and well in this thread still. HOLD ON before you start typing your angry responses! I'm on board with it not mattering that she doesn't speak both official languages, but the vitriol coming out here is pretty disgusting. If she didn't speak english and there were 400+ complaints about that I do not believe for a second that there would be people responding in the same way in this thread that they are now. I also believe that there would be 10x more complaints than the 400 referenced. And look, history bears out the reasons for why she doesn't speak french, and I suppose it's symbolically important to have an indigenous person as GG. I hesitate to call it a 'good' move because it's basically a way to look like you're doing something about the treatment of indigenous peoples. Does anyone honestly believe that they would even consider a GG that doesn't speak english? And I'm not talking about the reaction of people in this thread because that's not relevant to the broad reaction of society. Anglophone people lose their poo poo just as easily when a politician answers questions in French or whatever. This is stream of consciousness here, but I think what I'm saying is that the 'rule' about the type of bilingualism needed for the job is stupid, but within the context of that 'rule' existing, the people complaining have a point. The problem being that the solution is probably some kind of overhaul to the official language laws but I don't know what that would look like and would probably end up being a disaster to implement. I'm as anglophone as they come by the way.
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Jul 21, 2021 13:45
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Alctel posted:A million times this As an ignorant American, I have no idea what this even means!
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Jul 21, 2021 14:18
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Arcsquad12 posted:Perhaps it is unhealthy for me. I just despise the language watchdog and the way it is used in this country. 400 complaints and the watchdog launching an investigation seems ridiculous to me so I'll use hyperbole and spell out my disgust for the pro-French hypocrites abusing the watchdog system yet again out of some ridiculous persecution complex over their allegedly dying language. I rag on Quebec a lot because they make it easy for me at work. Post Quesrion period media scrums with Bloc MPs gives me a direct earful of bad faith arguments about defending Quebec culture with a French journalist corps more than willing to stack their questions to get juicy audio bits for their headlines. Listening to that day in and day out for weeks at a time leaves me wishing they would just shut the gently caress up and leave the rest of the country alone. The reason the Bloc and the (dwindling remnants of the) PQ appear cynical is because they are entirely made up of bourgeois nationalists who are more interested in better asserting their class interests over French-speaking Canada than they are in carrying out any sort of project anchored in ideals of political sovereignty or justice. All of their behaviour follows from that. This doesn't speak to the character of Francophones in general, and acting as such is a concession to their reactionary rhetoric. bunnyofdoom posted:https://twitter.com/the_ns/status/1417529374669164550 Again, I don't give a poo poo about Simon's French language abilities, but this is plainly false. People HAVE brought that up, over and over. Doug Ford's lack of speaking ability and noxious economic policy has been a major focus of denunciation by Franco-Ontarian groups (as well as a smattering of Qc editorialists) since he’s come to power. Jam Band Death Cult fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 14:25
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Muscle Tracer posted:As an ignorant American, I have no idea what this even means! Instead of having the person who represents your country in public be a tremendous embarrassment to at least half your population at any given time, what if it were someone completely apolitical, about whom the entire country felt largely indifferent?
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Jul 21, 2021 14:25
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flakeloaf posted:Instead of having the person who represents your country in public be a tremendous embarrassment to at least half your population at any given time, what if it were someone completely apolitical, about whom the entire country felt largely indifferent? except for once in a while when you get an rear end in a top hat astronaut.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:38
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enki42 posted:except for once in a while when you get an rear end in a top hat astronaut. Was that embarrassing to anyone outside the Liberal party? I figured nobody gave a poo poo.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:50
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Another Bill posted:I think Governor General should be picked through a 13 person, winner take all battle royale style cage match. Each province and territory may send their most worthy candidate. G-G Gundam.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:55
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Coxswain Balls posted:I was expecting the fundie vaccination problem to solve itself in one way or another over time. I thought it was gonna be through people killing themselves through stubbornness, but this seems even better since they won't be clogging up the ICU. Sucks for the places they're emigrating to though.  I mean, this isn't how I expected Manitoba to get our vaccine rates up, but I'll take it.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:55
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pokeyman posted:Was that embarrassing to anyone outside the Liberal party? I figured nobody gave a poo poo. See? Benign indifference. Go ahead. Milkshake duck another one. Another ten. Accidentally forget one in Uruguay for a month. Discover one's really a bag of eels. There's no cult around them so nobody gives a poo poo.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:00
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pokeyman posted:Was that embarrassing to anyone outside the Liberal party? I figured nobody gave a poo poo. Oh yeah, it absolutely wasn't a big deal (outside of being fodder for Postmedia), it was just the only time recently that the GG position was anything but completely and utterly irrelevant. The only other time I can remember the GG in the news is when Harper prorogued to avoid the Lib/NDP/Bloc coalition taking power and the press temporarily forgot that the GG is constitutionally mandated to not have opinions or do anything. I literally couldn't tell you the name of the GG that was between Jean and Payette. enki42 fucked around with this message at 16:06 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 16:03
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His name was David Johnston, and his biggest claim to fame before being GG was being the Harper toady who narrowed the scope of the Airbus affair so Mulroney could get off.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:48
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Literally got in a fight with a relative over that Harper proroguement and we still don't talk to this day.
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Jul 21, 2021 17:02
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Jam Band Death Cult posted:Again, I don't give a poo poo about Simon's French language abilities, but this is plainly false. People HAVE brought that up, over and over. Doug Ford's lack of speaking ability and noxious economic policy has been a major focus of denunciation by Franco-Ontarian groups (as well as a smattering of Qc editorialists) since he’s come to power. I don't recall people criticizing his (in)ability to speak French, but he also holds a provincial position in a province that is not bilingual. Is there any expectation that he speak French? I have no expectation that provincial reps in Quebec speak English because it also isn't a bilingual province. This is a legitimate question.
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Jul 21, 2021 17:16
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Another Bill posted:Literally got in a fight with a relative over that Harper proroguement and we still don't talk to this day. It was Bullshit, OP
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Jul 21, 2021 17:18
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Goosed it. posted:I don't recall people criticizing his (in)ability to speak French, but he also holds a provincial position in a province that is not bilingual. Is there any expectation that he speak French? I have no expectation that provincial reps in Quebec speak English because it also isn't a bilingual province. This is a legitimate question. And yet many of them do, and pride themselves on the ability to answer their constituents in the language they use to ask their questions. It's okay to aspire to more than the bare minimum. Franco-Ontarians are maybe 5% of the population tops. It'd be nice if he did, but no, I don't think anyone worth listening to seriously expects this of him flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 17:24 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 17:21
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