Srice posted:Now and Then, Here and There is good but also it doesn't criticize it in the same way modern isekai do it, if that makes sense? Yeah NTHT was real good (and very depressing for most of it) but yeah it basically predates the whole modern trend of Isekai, especially the popularity of trapped in a game/world using rpg mechanics subgenre of it. I think it's still about as good as a serious critique of that sort of thing can be though, since it's hard to say much about a genre that itself has so little to say.
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Jul 21, 2021 14:56
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Red and Black posted:I finished Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex season 1 the other day. Was anyone else underwhelmed with the finale of the Laughing Man case? It felt like they built up the stakes incredibly high with Section 9 being shut down and the major being killed and then all that tension disappeared and everything was resolved without anything really happening. Also, is season 2 worthwhile? Season 2 is Second Gig right? It's got some cool episodes and moments and doesn't care if you've done the required readings because the characters are about to quote the textbook at you.
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Jul 21, 2021 14:56
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KomradeX posted:I have not watched How a Realist Hero saved the Kingdom, but it looks to me like another isekai where the fantasy is reproducing Late Capitalism in a fantasy setting I mean so far the guy has said the only capable statesman in the government when he got there was "Prime Minister Marx" and episode 2 was about what a great idea Cao Cao had so so far it hasn't gone down that path. Not saying it won't get there, though.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:17
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I hit today on something that annoys me a lot about a lot of modern fantasy anime: the reproduction of video game mechanics in a non-video game environment. I'm sure I'm not the first person to think this, but things like "levels" "classes" and "power ratings" are such a strange way to try and conceptualize the world, and add a weirdly deterministic element to anything they're in. They make sense for a limited option scenario like an RPG, where one needs to quantify abilities for the computer or tabletop system to be able to understand what's going on, and for the player to track progress through the game, but having the characters discuss their "character sheets" on screen in a non-parodic way implies a lot more about the make up of the world than the author usually intends. The whole thing seems often just a way to reproduce the "His Power Level is Over 9000!!" scene from Dragon Ball, as a way for spectators to comment on how powerful the characters are, and how strange it is that this protagonist, who should be weak, is breaking the rules of the game by suddenly getting a ton of XP and leveling up a lot when his friends are in danger, or whatever. From a narrative standpoint, this makes sense, as we've got a prediction that the hero cannot beat the villain, but then they do anyways through the power of love/friendship/burning passion/etc., but from a world building standpoint? Like, in real life, dominance hierarchies exist between wolves, but they aren't just a strict ladder, they function more like a web. Wolf A may be dominant over Wolf B who is Dominant over Wolf C, but Wolf C may be dominant over Wolves A and D, but not E, and so on... Even grossly simplified, it doesn't work out like "My number is higher" or "Rock always beats scissors". Even in an incredibly stats based game like Baseball, averages are often no determinant of actual outcomes, and a pitcher who usually sucks can strike out a batter who is usually amazing. But in an anime world, where these averages translate directly into real world ability, and a king could just show you a magical sheet of stats that proves he's a better person than you? Where the nobility have concrete proof that they are superior? It combines the worst traits of both the divine right of nobility with liberal credentialism. I can laugh it off in something like Konosuba, because it's a very funny parody, but when it's kind of shoehorned into Is It Wrong to Try to Pick Up Girls in a Dungeon? or similar stories...
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Jul 21, 2021 15:20
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KomradeX posted:I have not watched How a Realist Hero saved the Kingdom, but it looks to me like another isekai where the fantasy is reproducing Late Capitalism in a fantasy setting idk in all the 'speedrun industrialization' ones i can think of everything is done via state-run industries. they will inevitably develop into capitalism and disaster over time but that's really just a result of japanese and korean writers being up there with americans in terms of a complete lack of any introduction to marxist historiography and chinese writers very rarely do actually have some understanding of theory and then explicitly write to avoid having to engage with any subject matter like this or the isekai colonialism take for understandable reasons
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Jul 21, 2021 15:21
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Toph Bei Fong posted:I hit today on something that annoys me a lot about a lot of modern fantasy anime: the reproduction of video game mechanics in a non-video game environment. I wish an Isekai would incorporate video game elements the way the podcast E1 does, with the military trying to figure out how to teach the soldiers to do a double jump and a guy smoking so much weed he sees the secret cheat codes of the universe and puts big head mode on and then noclips out of the room
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Jul 21, 2021 15:25
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Srice posted:Now and Then, Here and There is good but also it doesn't criticize it in the same way modern isekai do it, if that makes sense? Just looked it up and it's twenty years old. Haha. You'd probably need to account for the last 15 years of self-referential bullshit that has piled up around the Isekai genre. Otherwise you're just doing a gritty Narnia.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:27
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Toph Bei Fong posted:I hit today on something that annoys me a lot about a lot of modern fantasy anime: the reproduction of video game mechanics in a non-video game environment. It's basically just an easy world-building shortcut. Don't need to make poo poo coherent or consistent or anything you can just throw out "Hero" and "Demon Lord" and "adventurer's guild" and "rank/level" and the audience will fill in all the gaps.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:41
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Reik posted:I mean so far the guy has said the only capable statesman in the government when he got there was "Prime Minister Marx" and episode 2 was about what a great idea Cao Cao had so so far it hasn't gone down that path. Not saying it won't get there, though. Okay maybe I was just having a knee jerk reaction to it
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Jul 21, 2021 15:54
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KomradeX posted:Okay maybe I was just having a knee jerk reaction to it I mean, I still don't trust it, but it hasn't gone to poo poo so far.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:04
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KomradeX posted:Okay maybe I was just having a knee jerk reaction to it Anime reactionary gtfo
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Jul 21, 2021 16:13
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You're getting into messy territory claiming that Isekai has colonialist themes when it's lacking any actual colonial system. Most of it's about as colonialist as moving to another country.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:18
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Red and Black posted:I finished Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex season 1 the other day. Was anyone else underwhelmed with the finale of the Laughing Man case? It felt like they built up the stakes incredibly high with Section 9 being shut down and the major being killed and then all that tension disappeared and everything was resolved without anything really happening. Also, is season 2 worthwhile? Because the show is so heavily tied to a political world, I think that's just the show being "realistic" (for lack of a better term) with mundane payoffs, e.g. the big bad guy isn't revealed until late in the season and we only see him for about 10 seconds as he is arrested and he just some fat, old politican and we also find out the Laughing Man isn't even the "original" Laughing Man since he got his ideas from a piece of blackmail he found while wandering the net. If you generally liked the first season, then you will probably like the second season. The second season covers similar ground as the first, but with different viewpoints. The only negative I can really remember is that some of the episodes lack enough exposition to figure out the finer details of why characters are acting a certain way and what the implications of their actions are, but then again complete understanding of the world in Ghost in the Shell was never required to enjoy it. Goon Boots has issued a correction as of 16:53 on Jul 21, 2021 |
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Jul 21, 2021 16:41
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Ghost in the Shell 2nd Gig is one of the best political thrillers anime has to offer, check it out, even the philosophical bull sessions can at least be funny to watch.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:50
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isekai: the dark souls of anime
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Jul 21, 2021 16:53
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Red and Black posted:I finished Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex season 1 the other day. Was anyone else underwhelmed with the finale of the Laughing Man case? It felt like they built up the stakes incredibly high with Section 9 being shut down and the major being killed and then all that tension disappeared and everything was resolved without anything really happening. Also, is season 2 worthwhile? Second Gig has a far, far stronger main plot than season one, and has some memorable one-off episodes as well. Definitely get on it.
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Jul 21, 2021 16:53
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Dr. Killjoy posted:Ghost in the Shell 2nd Gig is one of the best political thrillers anime has to offer, check it out, even the philosophical bull sessions can at least be funny to watch. even the intro is amazing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQIqgxeNtl0 2nd Gig is one of the best (and most cspam) anime ever made
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Jul 21, 2021 16:54
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I was checking to see if SAC was on Netflix because I remember it differently than the thread (probably because I was watching it on adult swim in chunks) and there's a Ghost in the Shell SAC_2045? Anyone seen this before? A movie, a series? Any good?
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Jul 21, 2021 17:21
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HootTheOwl posted:I was checking to see if SAC was on Netflix because I remember it differently than the thread (probably because I was watching it on adult swim in chunks) and there's a Ghost in the Shell SAC_2045? Anyone seen this before? A movie, a series? Any good? its an all cg ONA thats just not good at all lol 
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Jul 21, 2021 17:22
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aaaahhhhhhhh
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Jul 21, 2021 17:24
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It does sort of pick off from where SAC and 2nd Gig ended though
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Jul 21, 2021 17:30
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So Omega is a tochikoma?
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Jul 21, 2021 17:33
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:You're getting into messy territory claiming that Isekai has colonialist themes when it's lacking any actual colonial system. Most of it's about as colonialist as moving to another country. GATE was the only explicit colonial isekai afaik. Like, major plot points include Japan figuring out how to best extract resources from the parallel world.
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Jul 21, 2021 17:36
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Bro Dad posted:even the intro is amazing Might have to rewatch
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Jul 21, 2021 18:15
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atelier morgan posted:and chinese writers very rarely do actually have some understanding of theory and then explicitly write to avoid having to engage with any subject matter like this or the isekai colonialism take for understandable reasons An Isekai wherein Deng Xiaoping reincarnates into a cat with black and white fur. Also the cat Deng has got some bullshit op magic that empowers his comrades He has to lead his waifu comrades to socialism through developing the magical productive forces in order while withstanding the onslaught of both the social imperialists in the north and the regular imperialists across the sea. "Ahh, I Can't Believe I Have to Catch All These Mice!" Pener Kropoopkin posted:You're getting into messy territory claiming that Isekai has colonialist themes when it's lacking any actual colonial system. Most of it's about as colonialist as moving to another country.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:24
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genericnick posted:Might have to rewatch do it now bitch. im doing it now. you should do it now
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Jul 21, 2021 18:27
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2nd gig is about our future defined by the people of the road and no home
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Jul 21, 2021 18:29
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Started watching Gintama. I appreciate that the title is just a joke about testicles
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Jul 21, 2021 18:29
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GATE technically is a reverse-isekai.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:33
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China did that Karl Marx anime, its almost surprised they haven't done an isekai of modern Chinese person gets hit by truck, introduces Communism to some videogame kingdom
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Jul 21, 2021 18:36
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Stairmaster posted:GATE technically is a reverse-isekai. definitely the most explicitly colonialist work in the pseudo-genre
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Jul 21, 2021 18:39
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Reik posted:I mean so far the guy has said the only capable statesman in the government when he got there was "Prime Minister Marx" and episode 2 was about what a great idea Cao Cao had so so far it hasn't gone down that path. Not saying it won't get there, though. I read the novels for a few volumes and at one point he tells somebody a thinly-veiled allegory about The Capitalist Kingdom and The Socialist Kingdom and basically concludes that the truth is in the middle, maaaaaannn. It was interesting at first but the cast constantly fawning over the MC for being so brilliant gets old pretty fast. There’s a fun white-savior bit early on where he has to explain the concept of selective thinning to a tribe of dark elves who’ve been living in the drat forest forever and of course it’s at that moment that their village gets wiped out in a mudslide and he has to rescue them.
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Jul 21, 2021 18:43
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Isn't every Isekai usually colonialism is bad (as they attempt to exploit the Hero Resources of another wold) but then the Hero turns out to be so super-special-awesome they takeover society?
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Jul 21, 2021 18:51
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Dreddout posted:Maybe colonialism isn't the right word but usually isekai is closer to "superman crash lands in middle earth and he's gonna bring you the mcdouble" than simply moving to another country. Most isekai is really about "going native" and the ones where the main character recreates Japan in a fantasy world are the notable exceptions. Besides Gate, Overlord is a kind of colonialist narrative. Nazarick doesn't just not belong in the Other World, they pursue aggressive expansion by rationalizing it as self-defense - but this is also treated as a bad thing unlike Gate.
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Jul 21, 2021 19:10
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Oh I forgot about the isekai where the "good guys" bring in Hitler to rebuild the human empire so they can fight off Jesus's horde of monsters. Next season of Drifters when?christmas boots posted:Started watching Gintama. I appreciate that the title is just a joke about testicles Did you start with episode 3?
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Jul 21, 2021 19:13
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I remember in season 1 of Overlord where the main guy hangs out with a low-level adventuring party for a few episodes and gets to know them and understands who they are a bit. then they all get killed and the main guy doesn't even react or care at all, then just continues to do random poo poo aimlessly. airtight writing in that show.
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Jul 21, 2021 19:14
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Casey Finnigan posted:I remember in season 1 of Overlord where the main guy hangs out with a low-level adventuring party for a few episodes and gets to know them and understands who they are a bit. then they all get killed and the main guy doesn't even react or care at all, then just continues to do random poo poo aimlessly. airtight writing in that show. Man it is all downhill from there.
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Jul 21, 2021 19:16
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Reik posted:Oh I forgot about the isekai where the "good guys" bring in Hitler to rebuild the human empire so they can fight off Jesus's horde of monsters. Next season of Drifters when? No, I started with the first 2 which were definitely of a lower quality. I'm actually like 50 episodes in at this point and it's good
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Jul 21, 2021 19:18
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christmas boots posted:No, I started with the first 2 which were definitely of a lower quality. I'm actually like 50 episodes in at this point and it's good Yeah, the first 2 were just filler episodes celebrating the anime getting made. It's easily my favorite show, just a bunch of lovable dorks making dick and poop jokes.
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Jul 21, 2021 19:20
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Casey Finnigan posted:I remember in season 1 of Overlord where the main guy hangs out with a low-level adventuring party for a few episodes and gets to know them and understands who they are a bit. then they all get killed and the main guy doesn't even react or care at all, then just continues to do random poo poo aimlessly. airtight writing in that show. They comment on the fact that being an actual undead sorcerer skeleton has stripped the protagonist of any human empathy or emotion
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Jul 21, 2021 19:20
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