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Do you prefer the extended summer thread format? This poll is closed. |
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MeinPanzer posted:Also all those mosques just happened to have structural issues that meant that they had to be bulldozed. IMO these people put themselves in the same camp as the fash and nazis by doing it, and we have pretty well defined guidelines on how to handle those I believe. I'll double my cat tax  
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Jul 22, 2021 09:41
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Excellent cats
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Jul 22, 2021 09:46
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His Divine Shadow posted:IMO these people put themselves in the same camp as the fash and nazis by doing it With the intent of being on the guard tower. This is the guy who Kramered into the thread a month ago to tell us that Putin annexing the Crimea was good, actually. It's no real surprise that he's now stanning for the other gang of nominally Communist authoritarians.
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Jul 22, 2021 09:48
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nominally communist Putin?
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Jul 22, 2021 09:49
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Tankies love defending genocide if there’s a red flag flying over it, news at ten. Agree it should be a bannable offence, particularly given that there are absolutely loads of independent accounts from people who’ve escaped/had family members disappeared. CSPAM would cease to exist if it was though so I doubt it ever will be.
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Jul 22, 2021 09:55
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I feel it's time for a bit of wholesome nature stuff. Last night me and my fiance went into the woods and picked bilberries, pretty poor results, the summer was too dry after midsummers for a good season. Also other people have probably been out too, since it's free for everyone to go into the woods and pick berries. We got almost one 10l bucket full though. I would like another one however, that should last us until next summer. 
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Jul 22, 2021 10:09
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Jedit posted:With the intent of being on the guard tower. This is getting off-topic and I'm going to end up probated anyway at this rate, but this is a lie - I wasn't defending Putin annexing the Crimea and and I'm not saying everything China does is good and cool too either - like I said, it is more comparable to the War on Terror, but instead of carpet bombing Iraq they're locking up dissidents at home. But there's more nuance going on than just "China is genociding Muslims".
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Jul 22, 2021 10:36
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"Dissidents" meaning 'people who don't want to be forcibly culturally assimilated' and also 'everyone they know and everyone in their cities, towns and villages'?
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Jul 22, 2021 10:39
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I have a feeling the BBC's headline that there is No Need To Panic Buy is going to lead to a lot of questions already answered by the headline
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Jul 22, 2021 10:49
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Not So Fast posted:This is getting off-topic and I'm going to end up probated anyway at this rate, but this is a lie - I wasn't defending Putin annexing the Crimea and and I'm not saying everything China does is good and cool too either - like I said, it is more comparable to the War on Terror, but instead of carpet bombing Iraq they're locking up dissidents at home. But there's more nuance going on than just "China is genociding Muslims". What China was doing with respect to its Muslim populations was comparable to the War on Terror back 6 or 8 years ago, around the time of the Kunming knife attack and similar terrorist incidents. What they've been doing for the last 3-4 years is full on cultural genocide, and is much more similar to what Nazi Germany was doing to Jews prior to the establishment of death camps.
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Jul 22, 2021 10:50
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Not So Fast posted:they're locking up dissidents at home
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Jul 22, 2021 10:58
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Marmaduke! posted:I have a feeling the BBC's headline that there is No Need To Panic Buy is going to lead to a lot of questions already answered by the headline "There is I'm well stocked with pasta and toilet paper, so I'm not worried at least!
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Jul 22, 2021 11:04
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Since we're gearing up for a cold war against China it does make me skeptical about the claims and there was a long time where every source on this issue ultimately came from the same crank I certainly wouldn't believe a BBC source about china The BBC is one of the least reliable sources of foreign policy stuff
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Jul 22, 2021 11:18
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I hate to truth is in the middle it but China doing heinous poo poo in Xinjiang while it also being true that a lot of the stuff that gets coverage in the west being linked to stories that come from Adrian Zenz is sus as hell can both be true. Dude works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation which is an explicitly right wing organisation that freely quotes the Black Book of Communism. You don't have to be a Stalinist or Maoist to think that is not a source to be taken seriously. Honestly think it's loving weird to post in UKMT if you're happy eating up that garbage.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:20
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I should have saved that map of alliances diagram from the BBC explaining the war in Yemen where every part of it was "wrong" (an intentional lie)
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Jul 22, 2021 11:25
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forkboy84 posted:I hate to truth is in the middle it but China doing heinous poo poo in Xinjiang while it also being true that a lot of the stuff that gets coverage in the west being linked to stories that come from Adrian Zenz is sus as hell can both be true. Dude works for the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation which is an explicitly right wing organisation that freely quotes the Black Book of Communism. You don't have to be a Stalinist or Maoist to think that is not a source to be taken seriously.  most of it is made up, they're just locking dissidents up at home " is a loving weird flex. I don't think the Chinese State needs defending.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:26
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Most of it coming form Adrian Zenz just isn’t true at this point either. There are countless first hand accounts from Uyhgurs.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:27
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I don't know what's going on in Xinjiang but there was definitely an organized push for both the "China is doing a genocide of Muslims" and "Muslims support this genocide of Muslims that China is doing" last year, and that's weird. Like normally Saudi Arabia and Iran fall over each other to issue moral assurances that they are the one and true defenders of Islam against the great satan and other smaller satans, and France and Australia don't give a poo poo about Muslims, but the only explanations I've heard for why alliances should fall that way are "the global Islamo-Communist-Putinist-Africanist barbarians just want to murder everyone" type conspiracies or claims that everyone supporting China is just on their payroll. That doesn't mean that China isn't doing something terrible, but it does make you wonder what is causing the split in alliances to fall where it does.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:30
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Just because something is an obvious geopolitical stick, and the sort of issue used as a litmus test of future and present alliances and loyalties, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening and discounting the lives of millions of an ethnic group being sterilised, tortured, killed and generally cleansed as secondary to that is gross. Not saying that you were doing that Guavanaut, but plenty of people on this forum do.
Jakabite fucked around with this message at 11:37 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 11:34
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I think the answer is probably that both of these things are happening. China is oppressing Uighurs, including rounding them up into camps and from what I've read, sterilising them. AND The western media is using it as a tool for political and financial gain, as is tradition. Neither of these groups actually care about the oppressed people involved.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:35
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Yeah, it's possible for both "the Chinese state is using a hammer against something they see as an ethnic issue" and "the Western media is concocting a narrative that Muslims are fine with genocide of Muslims" to be true and very concerning.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:39
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 giving me big Clinton vibes tbh https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBe_guezGGc
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Jul 22, 2021 11:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cz9ICFDk8Js A pretty good overview. TL:DR It's at the very least a cultural genocide.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:40
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Rather than getting your info from the Global Times or the BBC or Adrian Zenz you can look up what real academics who actually speak Uyghur are saying, such as Rian Thum, or you can find the personal accounts of those who were actually in the camps and managed to get out.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:46
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The forced sterilisation thing is one that deffo keeps coming back to Zenz with one or two exceptions. Labour camps and forced assimilation and even "encouraging" the use of contraceptives are all better sourced. Anyway, not really UK Pol this.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:46
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Better get back to more interesting chat like how much jaffa cakes are poo poo
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Jul 22, 2021 11:51
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PNGYAKUZA posted:
That guy is just pissflaps.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:52
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Gonzo McFee posted:That guy is just pissflaps. *bill clinton voice* I don't understand this post.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:56
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Spangly A posted:Every single piece of anti-chinese propaganda I've read in the last few years has made me more pro China. Billionaire tax frauds are disappeared, companies are expected to follow laws, quarantines are actually enforced, and now public health risks are patriotically assaulted? Sounds like paradise As a long term China resident, it is in fact not paradise, but it’s not bad. The propaganda on our side remains bullshit, and I’m guessing you don’t see the equally bullshitty propaganda produced over here. People who cause trouble are disappeared, a category which includes billionaire tax frauds* and eg defence lawyers, people whose family members were raped by an official or policeman or billionaire who is friends with the right people, or someone else whose bad behaviour would be disruptive if exposed. Companies (and individuals!) are expected to follow laws that aren’t publicly available. Those laws are only enforced against people who are not protected. This is not better than the capitalist system, it’s just different rules for who’s protected. Quarantine enforcement is good, I’ll give the government that. But the increasing concentration of power in one dude and his mates is actually scary. I’ve been here 20 years. I doubt I’ll be here another 5. There’s too much arbitrariness around these days. * who are supporters of factions in the Party other than the current governing faction.
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Jul 22, 2021 11:57
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Communist Thoughts posted:Better get back to more interesting chat like how much jaffa cakes are poo poo It's more I can't be arsed being called a tankie for raising a mildly sceptical eye to Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation's freaky German evangelical nutter. Being a left libertarian is super tiresome because the China defenders hate you for doubting China is a workers paradise & Western Imperialists call you a Tankie for thinking that maybe exaggerating how bad China is isn't helpful unless your sole interest is Western Imperialism. It's hard being right. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 12:02 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 11:59
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Communist Thoughts posted:Better get back to more interesting chat like how much jaffa cakes are poo poo But they're good, though
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Jul 22, 2021 11:59
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forkboy84 posted:It's more I can't be arsed being called a tankie for raising a mildly sceptical eye to Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation's freaky German evangelical nutter. It's bad faith to keep on acting as if he's the sole or even main source of info anymore, since it has been repeatedly pointed out by people. And it's not just the uighurs is it.
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Jul 22, 2021 12:01
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Didn't the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation recently add every Covid-19 death to their Victims of Communism counter? 
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Jul 22, 2021 12:02
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https://twitter.com/mcash/status/1418154008930361346?s=19 The woman who inspired this man still gets to write for every right wing newspaper and appears regularly on the BBC.
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Jul 22, 2021 12:03
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His Divine Shadow posted:It's bad faith to keep on acting as if he's the sole or even main source of info anymore, since it has been repeatedly pointed out by people. And it's not just the uighurs is it. Yeah, this. I’m a left libertarian, therefore I don’t support the Chinese state.
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Jul 22, 2021 12:10
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It's pretty obvious that we're gearing up for a new war against China, cold or otherwise. In light of that I really can't blame people for being sus about news and propaganda painting China as a horrifying genocide state. Remember all the poo poo about Iraqi soldiers ripping Kuwaiti babies out of incubators? The enemy had to be painted in the most disgusting inhuman terms possible to get the population fired up for war. That gives cover for any actual bad poo poo going on because it all gets blended together in a mix of lies and propaganda.
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Jul 22, 2021 12:11
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Didn't the Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation recently add every Covid-19 death to their Victims of Communism counter? You also got to add all the people who thought about communism and died
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Jul 22, 2021 12:12
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forkboy84 posted:It's more I can't be arsed being called a tankie for raising a mildly sceptical eye to Victims of Communism Memorial Foundation's freaky German evangelical nutter. Being a tankie isn't questioning some lovely right wing news source's views on what's happening in Xinjiang; it's ignoring the hefty amount of independent journalism that's used leaked documents, satellite images, and interviews with individuals who've managed to escape the prison camps and/or their relatives. For anyone who's interested, this is a great article with a lot of rigorous research involved that's very thorough and suggests the scale of what's going on: https://www.newyorker.com/news/a-reporter-at-large/china-xinjiang-prison-state-uighur-detention-camps-prisoner-testimony MeinPanzer fucked around with this message at 12:17 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 12:13
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His Divine Shadow posted:It's bad faith to keep on acting as if he's the sole or even main source of info anymore, since it has been repeatedly pointed out by people. And it's not just the uighurs is it. Him being even a minor source raises huge loving question marks about the sources I don't know because he is an utter bullshit artist. I've already stated I belive some of the accusations like forced assimilation, which the PRC has a history of with groups like the Mongols & Tibetans. But people and reports continually acting like Zenz is a reliable source does throw suspicion on who else they regard as reliable.
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Jul 22, 2021 12:14
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Failed Imagineer posted:You also got to add all the people who thought about communism and died Rest in piss, Donald Rumsfeld
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Jul 22, 2021 12:14
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