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Thanks. Had panel interview with second company and recruiter did a pre offer of 140k, but there was still steps to go before she could call and give me a real verbal offer. That place would probably end up being a once or twice a week commute into south sf, while first company would be a week of travel about once a month on average. Struggling to figure out which is better for overall career now. I'm gonna try and get 1st company to 120 or 125k and see if that makes it any clearer.
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Jul 21, 2021 00:48
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| # ? May 21, 2024 14:39 |
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Your situation is going to be highly specific and the right choice subjective, but I'm gonna just mention that a $30k difference in comp is likely to compound throughout your career In any case, never don't negotiate
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Jul 21, 2021 03:51
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have you ever done a role with significant travel before?
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Jul 21, 2021 13:08
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Yeah I admit my kneejerk reaction to reading "up to 50% travel but likely less than that in practice" was "lol it will turn out to be 75% travel and OP will end up either quitting or divorced"
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Jul 21, 2021 13:46
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I have not done significant travel, so that is a worry of mine and I appreciate you two mentioning it. From my talks with the team it seems like 50% has been the max, and it is backed up by glass door (for what that is worth). Covid has shuttered all travel atm, and no one i talked to expected the travel to return to pre covid levels, but who the gently caress really knows. With the second offer on the table my partner is less happy with the travel aspect given we're looking to adopt from the foster system in 2 to 3 years, but that would be 2 to 3 years from now so not a major current problem. If I go with second option (140k), when the internal recruiter pitched it her explanation (bullshit) was that 140k was in the at the top middle of the pay band for the role (130 to 145) and she wanted to make sure there was room for raises without requiring a promotion this December (more bullshit). When I negotiate do I just ignore that and say this is what ill sign on for? What should my response be when she tries to use that as a stupid excuse since pay bands are dumb hr poo poo and exceptions can always be made.
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Jul 21, 2021 14:05
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"I am sorry to hear that. I will sign for $X."
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Jul 21, 2021 14:10
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Seconded. Promises of future raises are worth exactly $0. Ask for what would make you enthusiastically jump into the role, not what you can live with. I know this because I am the dumbass who got burned by promises of future compensation in my last job transition. My job is great but I could definitely have gone harder on it.
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Jul 21, 2021 15:44
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Not a Children posted:Seconded. Promises of future raises are worth exactly $0. Ask for what would make you enthusiastically jump into the role, not what you can live with. This feels like the last ten years of negotiation for me (without the promises part). I'm paid well; but I could have been paid more. It only get's more clear as time goes on.
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Jul 22, 2021 04:12
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The market right now is crazy. I turned down 2 companies recently to take a job at the third and both came back with higher offers (still not as good) after I told them I accepted an offer and another company told me they would beat any offer I had if they chose me…which seems ridiculous
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Jul 22, 2021 06:10
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Pillowpants posted:The market right now is crazy. I can only hope that companies will learn from this and start making better offers up front instead. Hahaha haha hahaha. As if.
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Jul 22, 2021 10:10
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Help, I’m trying to figure out how to value myself!  I’m currently happily employed as a scientist in an established engineering firm. I’m in a fairly niche field with six years experience. My experience specifically involves the transition of a technology from the benchtop to production. I make about $140k ($158k in total comp) as an individual contributor with large project scope and no direct reports. I’d like to move into a management/leadership role. A position that looks like it is a good match to my background and career goals has opened at a startup. I’m in the early interview stage, but trying to plan ahead. My best alternative is to stay at my current job, which I like except I want more management scope and money. How do I go about figuring out my worth? I searched the job title and got “$20k to $600k”, which isn’t helpful. How much should a manager at a technology startup make?
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Jul 22, 2021 17:16
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I got the email offer with all the details, and responded to ask for more money and more stock. it's terrifying waiting to get a response from them.
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Jul 22, 2021 17:23
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I don't know anything about your specific industry, but there are two things I do know: expect to work deathmarch hours at a startup, and when you get an offer it's important to know that the actual value of any and all equity offered is $0. Know what you're walking into and get paid in cash salary. Not bonuses, definitely not equity. Cash or GTFO.
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Jul 22, 2021 17:23
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Dobbs_Head posted:Help, I’m trying to figure out how to value myself! While this is something that's good to know, what really matters here is what potential companies value you at. This is why it's so important to never say a number first. Find out how much they're willing to offer, and know that you can negotiate upwards from that initial offer.
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Jul 22, 2021 17:52
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Eric the Mauve posted:I don't know anything about your specific industry, but there are two things I do know: expect to work deathmarch hours at a startup, and when you get an offer it's important to know that the actual value of any and all equity offered is $0. Know what you're walking into and get paid in cash salary. Not bonuses, definitely not equity. Cash or GTFO. Yup I know that. Cash salary is great for what I was expecting, shares would totally be an unexpected lottery.
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Jul 22, 2021 18:12
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:While this is something that's good to know, what really matters here is what potential companies value you at. This is why it's so important to never say a number first. Find out how much they're willing to offer, and know that you can negotiate upwards from that initial offer. Yeah, I’m trying to define my victory condition for myself. I’d never say it to them. I feel like, with all the risks of a startup, I’d like to break $190k total compensation with stock on top to justify it. That’s ~ 20% raise over what I make now. Otherwise I could just hang where I am and keep getting raises and ask for more managerial responsibilities.
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Jul 22, 2021 18:40
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Dobbs_Head posted:Yeah, I’m trying to define my victory condition for myself. I’d never say it to them. OK, that's a reasonable mindset to bring. As far as the specific number you're shooting for, I think the main things to keep in mind are the costs to you of taking that new job. Costs include things like losing your old job, having to deal with a new commute, but also the potential risks of the new job. Startups fail all the time, and if this one bombs, then where will you be job-wise? If you feel secure in your ability to quickly land a decent job if you have to, then you should put less of a premium on working for a startup vs. if you're worried that you might be unemployed for an extended period. This isn't meant to talk you out of working for a startup; I just want you to be able to make an informed decision. There are plenty of risks to working anywhere, you just want to try to know about and evaluate as many of them as possible before you commit. EDIT: of course, also consider the benefits of leaving your old job 
TooMuchAbstraction fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Jul 22, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 19:33
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Well I got a no on the negotiation. The comp was already extremely competitive, and I don't have a better offer so I'm going to take it. Bummer but oh well. This is still nearly a 160% increase in my comp even after the cost of living increase.
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Jul 22, 2021 19:54
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Spikes32 posted:Well I got a no on the negotiation. The comp was already extremely competitive, and I don't have a better offer so I'm going to take it. Bummer but oh well. This is still nearly a 160% increase in my comp even after the cost of living increase. (If they pull the offer they’re fuckin assholes.) Aso  of course!
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Jul 22, 2021 20:28
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Spikes32 posted:Well I got a no on the negotiation. The comp was already extremely competitive, and I don't have a better offer so I'm going to take it. Bummer but oh well. This is still nearly a 160% increase in my comp even after the cost of living increase. Holy moly, gently caress yes.
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Jul 23, 2021 00:47
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Spikes32 posted:Well I got a no on the negotiation. The comp was already extremely competitive, and I don't have a better offer so I'm going to take it. Bummer but oh well. This is still nearly a 160% increase in my comp even after the cost of living increase. Well, they are including the fellatio machine, but they won't spring for the gold plating... I mean that's a hell of a win as-is, my man, treat it as such.
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Jul 24, 2021 12:32
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I’m not sure which Bfc Thread to post this in, but I got hired at this new company and they’re doing a credit/background check. Will civil court case show up on that? I got sued for defamation a few years back. Same question re bankruptcy. My wife got us in a hole financially and I tried to consolidate all the cards before realizing that was the right move. I’ve already signed the offer letter and I’ve never seen anyone get rescinded after the fact for either but my anxiety is through the roof.
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Jul 27, 2021 05:24
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Yes, both of those things will show up. Sorry but I don't think anyone knows just how this particular company will react. All I can say is I've seen people get hired with worse in their histories than that.
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Jul 27, 2021 05:31
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Pillowpants posted:I’m not sure which Bfc Thread to post this in, but I got hired at this new company and they’re doing a credit/background check. For both cases context matters. If you're getting a job in communication or legal department, defamation might be a bigger issue than if you're in IT. Bankruptcy is probably looking worse for a Financial Controller than it does for an Engineer. Financial background checks are often done to make sure you're not likely to be blackmailed. If you have a 500k debt, you are more likely to trade company secrets for cash than someone with a clean sheet. If you're financially ok now, I doubt it's going to be an issue.
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Jul 27, 2021 08:12
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Ymmv but I'm upfront about what they're going to hear before they get the results back. I've just said something like "I don't want it to be a surprise, I had an issue back in 2015, and I've been doing XYZ to address it" or whatever. For me it was defaulted student loans and it wasn't an issue; they said financial issues weren't even a conversation except for positions with a company credit card. I was a little surprised they weren't at all concerned about having access to sensitive data that people would be willing to pay for, but apparently not! Anne Whateley fucked around with this message at 09:28 on Jul 27, 2021 |
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Jul 27, 2021 09:24
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i like nice words
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Anne Whateley posted:having access to sensitive data that people would be willing to pay for For my screenings this has always been the most important reason. They wanted to be sure new hires/contractors aren’t in huge debt and susceptible for bribing/blackmail.
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Jul 27, 2021 10:16
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I'm negotiating tomorrow (probably), gunning for a top step salary (fed). Any advice? I read the whole thread 
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Jul 27, 2021 20:53
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In my Danish government jobs, I've had to get a security clearance from the police intelligence agency. Apparently, what they care most about, except for you being involved with known criminals, is your debt situation. You have to fill out all outstanding debts too. It kinda makes sense too, because of you're in over your head, an easy out might be too tempting. But in general, if your record is not relevant, the company either doesn't care or is lovely. The worst thing you can do is try to cover it up, and if possible, try to give it a good spin.
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Jul 27, 2021 21:29
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But how do I explain failed goon project as my reason for bankruptcy haha
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Jul 28, 2021 00:13
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Imagine five projects on a cliff, one falls off, and you replace it with a new one, at a new company
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Jul 28, 2021 00:24
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An offer is on the table! It's at the lower of the two levels they were considering for the position ("Principal" instead of "Fellow"), but nonetheless the offer is competitive as it stands. I'm going to fish for more anyway. The only real downsides are 2 weeks less vacation and walking away from some unvested equity at the old job, both of which I can use as points of negotiation. I asked a former colleague at this company where he thought the pay bands are for this level, and he thought they were already offering near the top, so I don't think I can go for broke on base salary. Gonna ask for +8% base and +50% sign-on RSUs.
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Jul 28, 2021 03:51
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SlapActionJackson posted:The only massive terrible downside is 2 weeks less vacation FTFY Good luck though!
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Jul 28, 2021 03:54
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Yeah, I'm not thrilled about that, but the recruiter was abundantly clear that he couldn't negotiate the benefits part of the package. Nonetheless, the pay and growth opportunity are worth a bit of vacation rationing in the next few years.
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Jul 28, 2021 03:59
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See if the recruiter can adjust your seniority start date. That wouldn't require bending the rules of the benefits package, just changes how it applies to your profile. Very common for HR to do this in my industry so that experienced hires come in with their same number of weeks of vacation that they earned at their previous job.
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Jul 28, 2021 13:39
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SlapActionJackson posted:Yeah, I'm not thrilled about that, but the recruiter was abundantly clear that he couldn't negotiate the benefits part of the package. Nonetheless, the pay and growth opportunity are worth a bit of vacation rationing in the next few years. I've heard that at multiple places and every time, shortly after joining, it became very clear that vacation does follow a company policy but is still negotiable.
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Jul 28, 2021 14:33
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Recruiter held firm on vacation, it isn't adjustable officially and unofficially, I can just work something out with my boss. He also said he couldn't go +8% base & +50% RSU, would +5% base & +65% RSU work? Yes, yes it would.  That's a net increase of >$30K/yr for whoever is keeping score.
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Jul 28, 2021 23:33
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SlapActionJackson posted:He also said he couldn't go +8% base & +50% RSU, would +5% base & +65% RSU work? Yes, yes it would. SlapActionJackson posted:That's a net increase of >$30K/yr for whoever is keeping score. Dwight Eisenhower posted:KYOON GRIFFEY JR has set up a shared spreadsheet that shows just how much total benefit negotiating compensation has brought goons.
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Jul 29, 2021 01:14
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Pillowpants posted:But how do I explain failed goon project as my reason for bankruptcy haha Serial Entrepreneur. One project failed unfortunately. Edit: just don’t tell them it was a goatse hosting site.
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Jul 29, 2021 12:15
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I know that no one gets meaningful raises anymore, that everyone just gets higher pay at the next job. I'm not prepared to leave this job just yet. However, based on a few statements from higher ups regarding pay-raises (when asked about the lack of them since the pandemic), I have been thinking I may be in a position to be successful in getting one if I somehow take the initiative. Of course, I am both an idiot and a coward, so I'm taking these thoughts here. Is there any advice for this sort of situation? Is it impossible because I have no strong alternative (not actually wanting to leave)? Or is getting raises just grandpa baloney and I need to shed my corporate programming?
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Jul 29, 2021 23:32
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You don't seem to be providing much context other than "I think I can get a raise and have no alternative to being told no." So...it doesn't hurt to ask and there's not much you can do after being told no. We just completed a comp pass in our organization to try to retain talent and even with a free raise for almost everyone I would think they would get a better salary at another job if they jumped.
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Jul 30, 2021 00:30
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