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Very nice to see that laws don't change over night. The new system sounds like a polished version of what we've been arguing for in the Paradox thread for years. As for specifics, the US really shouldn't have total separation of church and state. Or there should be a layer of 'Societal Attitudes' underneath, which take even longer to change, where all the unofficial discrimination happens.
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Jul 23, 2021 08:57
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A Buttery Pastry posted:As for specifics, the US really shouldn't have total separation of church and state. Or there should be a layer of 'Societal Attitudes' underneath, which take even longer to change, where all the unofficial discrimination happens. I agree, but also there's a bit of a standpoint question. I could believe that the idea of total separation of church and state (however imagined) was a pull factor for some immigrants.
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Jul 23, 2021 09:04
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The Narrator posted:I agree, but also there's a bit of a standpoint question. I could believe that the idea of total separation of church and state (however imagined) was a pull factor for some immigrants.
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Jul 23, 2021 09:10
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Maybe you could have "law efficiency" with penalties based on how racist your pops are
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Jul 23, 2021 13:03
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All those menus  although it’s a bit unrealistic that every law is independent I like how it opens up for fun RP alternatives.
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Jul 23, 2021 13:39
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Star posted:All those menus
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Jul 23, 2021 13:54
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MENU DEPTH: 100 Strap in boys!!
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Jul 23, 2021 14:12
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lol they've reused EU4 sieges mechanics to pass laws.
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Jul 23, 2021 14:31
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Nothingtoseehere posted:lol they've reused EU4 sieges mechanics to pass laws.
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Jul 23, 2021 14:53
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Nothingtoseehere posted:lol they've reused EU4 sieges mechanics to pass laws. 
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Jul 23, 2021 15:02
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It bothers me very much that even back in the 19th century people were making the apostrophe mistake!!
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Jul 23, 2021 15:18
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Yeah, that’s why I think societal attitudes would make sense as an additional layer. The idea of America, with freedom for all enshrined in law should be a powerful thing, especially for immigration, but it really shouldn’t be treated as if the law was fairly applied. Wiz and the team are aware of it and want to (eventually) simulate it, but due to how much it changes from time and place theyre having trouble figuring out a good broad enough mechanic. Definetly possible DLC content though!
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Jul 23, 2021 16:54
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Communist Zombie posted:Wiz and the team are aware of it and want to (eventually) simulate it, but due to how much it changes from time and place theyre having trouble figuring out a good broad enough mechanic. Definetly possible DLC content though!
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Jul 23, 2021 17:07
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Takanago posted:I like the potential for your laws to get stuck being filibustered because your governing coalition is too broad It also just sounds like sitting there watching the rolls for a siege in EUIV, though. E: oh look a new page where someone already said it. my bad.
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Jul 24, 2021 01:46
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https://twitter.com/PDXVictoria/status/1419658768237928450?s=19
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Jul 26, 2021 15:08
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"Sweden isn't very industrialized, but is rich in many natural resources" So what they're saying is that I need to conquer whatever natives happen to be in Sweden, then colonize and ruthlessly exploit it to fuel my factories.
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Jul 26, 2021 15:58
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Radio Free Kobold posted:"Sweden isn't very industrialized, but is rich in many natural resources" Don't forget to justify your colonial exploitation by blessing the benighted natives with the light of *rolls dice* Buddhism!
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Jul 26, 2021 17:39
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I really hope modding is fairly easy, especially for art assets. A buddy of mine just turned me on to the HOI4 mod "Old World Blues", and I can't help but think how much of a PITA it would be to create/rig/animate a Super Mutant compared to just drawing a static picture of one, to say nothing of the different techno-theocracies in that game. I was just looking through CK3's Workshop, and there's not a whole lot in the way of total conversions like there is in CK2 and HOI4, though those two games have been out for much longer.
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Jul 26, 2021 21:22
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A Buttery Pastry posted:That’s what I expected, and I think that’s fair. Yeah, it matters, but not so much that it can’t be left to a more thorough exploration in a DLC. And they can name the DLC Laws & Effects.
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Jul 26, 2021 21:50
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TwoQuestions posted:I really hope modding is fairly easy, especially for art assets. A buddy of mine just turned me on to the HOI4 mod "Old World Blues", and I can't help but think how much of a PITA it would be to create/rig/animate a Super Mutant compared to just drawing a static picture of one, to say nothing of the different techno-theocracies in that game. The CK3 issue comes from the success of CK2. I'm following the Elder Kings mod team, and they've been at work to make a CK3 version for quite some time. But it's clear that they want to release a nearly "feature complete" mod, where nearly all of Tamriel is playable and fleshed out. This is quite unlike the CK2 mod, which started out with only Cyrodil and Skyrim playable at the beginning iirc. I assume it's similar for other modders, where mod fans are used to a certain breadth and depth of the mod, and so the creators need more time to make an acceptable CK3 version. It's not like the GoT or Warhammer mods for CK2 came out within a year, either. CK3 was released on September 1st, 2020. Less than 12 months ago.
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Jul 26, 2021 22:01
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Yeah there are a lot of big TC mods being worked on if you follow the modding discord(s), they just aren’t released yet. The game hasn’t even been out a year. I assume the 3D characters are making it a bit harder to work with. But some the stuff out there is quite good. Like here are some Draenei from the Warcraft TC. 
Anno fucked around with this message at 22:22 on Jul 26, 2021 |
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Jul 26, 2021 22:17
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Anno posted:Yeah there are a lot of big TC mods being worked on if you follow the modding discord(s), they just aren’t released yet. The game hasn’t even been out a year. It feels like it's been a much longer time than it has. It's amazing that volunteer modders are now really wanting to put something great put there! I have not been following the modding community terribly closely, good to hear they're doing well. Those Dranei are looking cool as hell!
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Jul 27, 2021 02:47
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Anno posted:Yeah there are a lot of big TC mods being worked on if you follow the modding discord(s), they just aren’t released yet. The game hasn’t even been out a year. My understanding is, you can just make a 3D model, rig it and add it to some files like you can for the 2D sprites for Stellaris (which I eventually figured out how to do) but there's some some weird system to handle things like dynamic aging and genetics for facial features etc. So if they've figured out how to model/rig and add in 3D models into CK3 that's pretty dope and I wanna know how they did it!
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Jul 27, 2021 05:18
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I just realized, with the interest groups and laws you can simulate communist/socialist governments. How would you do fascist? I mean you can do heavy authoritarian laws and a dictatorship but how would you differentiate a bog standard strong man dictatorship and a fascist one?
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Jul 27, 2021 19:40
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Communist Zombie posted:I just realized, with the interest groups and laws you can simulate communist/socialist governments. How would you do fascist? I mean you can do heavy authoritarian laws and a dictatorship but how would you differentiate a bog standard strong man dictatorship and a fascist one? You'd probably get closer to representing fascists if you expanded some of the issues though, like having a Permanent Warfare is a military policy beyond just Jingoism, and Fear of Difference beyond Residency. If there's any sort of differentiation of right to speech, then fascists could also be more restrictive there.
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Jul 27, 2021 20:02
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Communist Zombie posted:I just realized, with the interest groups and laws you can simulate communist/socialist governments. How would you do fascist? I mean you can do heavy authoritarian laws and a dictatorship but how would you differentiate a bog standard strong man dictatorship and a fascist one? A key point to consider is a "Keys to Power" approach to analysis of dictatorships. Someone like Franco or the Argentine Junta's don't rule unilaterally, they don't have as complete control over society, information and so on. Heck even Benito Mussolini served essentially at the pleasure of the King who afaik retained his royal political prerogatives. A right wing strong man has to rely on a broader coalition of politically powerful interest groups, such as the Church, the army, industrialists, and so on while in a more overtly fascist state the relative amount of power these groups have, while not zero, is less significant and easier for the dictator to remain in control by retaining control over just a few of these groups since the secret police and other organizations help boost your influence over them.
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Jul 27, 2021 21:19
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I really hope we can do all sorts of zany societies. Like an absolute monarchy but the economy is entirely worker-owned other than a few key royal industries. Just really weird poo poo, I want to see it all.
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Jul 27, 2021 21:23
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The Pan-Slavic Anarcho-Monarchist Federation of the Rhine protests at this flagrant violation of national sovereignty!
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Jul 27, 2021 21:27
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I figure the thread might appreciate this https://youtu.be/40Ymyzwc9_M
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Jul 28, 2021 05:54
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https://twitter.com/Martin_Anward/status/1420383550256336899?s=19
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Jul 28, 2021 15:21
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Wait, why does social security increase the political strength of industrialists? That seems backwards. Or is it a "industrialists are radicalised to push back politically against a society where they don't get to decide who lives and who dies by firing them" kind of thing Same question regarding healthcare and the devout.
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Jul 28, 2021 15:37
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Gort posted:Wait, why does social security increase the political strength of industrialists? That seems backwards. That's at tier 1. I would assume the industrialists' strength goes down as you go up in tiers.
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Jul 28, 2021 15:42
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dunno about the social security one, the the healthcare option is probably supporting religious hospitals, thus giving said religious a boost on influence
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Jul 28, 2021 15:51
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Communist Zombie posted:I just realized, with the interest groups and laws you can simulate communist/socialist governments. How would you do fascist? I mean you can do heavy authoritarian laws and a dictatorship but how would you differentiate a bog standard strong man dictatorship and a fascist one? w/r/t game mechanics, things like: xenophobia, turbomilitarism, antagonism to socialism and everything related, reactionary in social principles state authority, ironically, isn't necessarily a characterizing aspect by itself of what we call "authoritarian" in a general sense
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Jul 28, 2021 15:55
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Don't end your sentences with a preposition!!!  
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Jul 28, 2021 15:55
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The healthcare and education ones are likely religious hospitals and religious schools which we know exist. The social security one could be private savings accounts.
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Jul 28, 2021 15:58
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Gort posted:Wait, why does social security increase the political strength of industrialists? That seems backwards. institutions are differentiated from the social laws iirc? I guess this is just UX/UI issue - industrialists benefit in opposition to social security, so as that institution gains strength, they lose their bonuses and start receiving penalties while others from the proletariat start receiving bonuses, things like that devotion I'd imagine that has to do with organized religion being absolutely necessary for late modern/early contemporary education as the public school in the secular sense just came into imagination during the period. Similar thing with healthcare, with parishes being administrators of hospitals and so on, so having a greater institutional development of those factors through state and government means weakening the religious power on social affairs
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Jul 28, 2021 16:05
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Probably just that one specific law strengthens industrialists in some way. It could be related to workhouses, for example, which were often used as a source of extremely cheap unskilled labour for certain jobs.
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Jul 28, 2021 16:59
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I understand those institutions will have proper icons and names, so it's not like Social Security level 3?
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Jul 28, 2021 18:10
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I thiiiiiiiink that each "level" of institution or whatever unlocks a slot that you can then fill with a card chosen out of a big pool of options, higher level institutions can run more policies/cards/whatever the term is at the same time. So yeah if that one active social security policy in Great Britain is "Workhouses" (chosen out of a pool that also included "State Charity" and "Religious Institutions" and "Debtor's Colonies" or some poo poo) it would make sense that the Industrialists are happy about the specific form it's taking (government-sponsored pools of dirt cheap labor) but wouldn't be happy about other potential policies. I imagine this is mostly what the dev diary is going to answer of course, I don't have any special insight I'm guessing based off a Twitter picture.
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Jul 28, 2021 20:45
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