Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

watho posted:

to be clear i was a making a joke about this old tweet


i’m very well aware what both wavetables and fm is

Kinda figured. And you started a much more meaningful dialogue than comparing notes on how to spend one's disposable income, so thanks.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

petit choux posted:

There's a lot of good sense in this. Also, a lot of them have MIDI in, so you can control them with a cheap MIDI controller - results may vary - like a used Oxygen8 you can find for $25 and add a pitch bend because they usually don't have that. It's also the cheapest solution. But I really want to add some of that extra umph to make it exciting for a young one. Still, especially when you look at the used market, you can find some really feature-packed keyboards for real cheap. I'm seeing Casios with USB for under $50, and you can sure get some suitable software for free or cheap, so you can get a basic DAW setup for that and the price of a decent computer. Of course there's a lot of cultural opposition to using computers, but that's another issue.

If they have an iPad I’d just get ‘em like $50 in apps plus maybe a USB controller

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.

petit choux posted:

Kinda figured. And you started a much more meaningful dialogue than comparing notes on how to spend one's disposable income, so thanks.

yeah to be even more clear there’s been some very good posts here and i’m glad that my stupid sleep deprived jokes led to that :)

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

Ok Comboomer posted:

If they have an iPad I’d just get ‘em like $50 in apps plus maybe a USB controller

Or even an Android, I think. I've seen some cool looking apps but haven't tried them. A lot of the people who don't use computers have no problem doing stuff on their phone.

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

watho posted:

yeah to be even more clear there’s been some very good posts here and i’m glad that my stupid sleep deprived jokes led to that :)

Well TBF Martyoof started the conversation, but just the same.

Now me, I wasn't really paying attention because I'm so excited about this little lofi playground I'm throwing together this weekend. I can hardly wait to show it to you all.

some kinda jackal
Feb 25, 2003

 
 
While I may not be replying individually I am super grateful for all the clarity. It’s still a lot to wrap my head around tbh but it helps me start to understand what my PT is doing when I use wt playback for a sample.

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

petit choux posted:

Or even an Android, I think. I've seen some cool looking apps but haven't tried them. A lot of the people who don't use computers have no problem doing stuff on their phone.

Android’s audio implementation is....well it’s better than Windows’ at least

a loathsome bird
Aug 15, 2004
i spent way too long on this lol

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

petit choux posted:

Hey all, here's a simple question: if I want to introduce a young person, say 14 years old, to electronic music and synths, what would be some good options? I'm thinking of a all-in-one type thing to introduce them without getting too costly or too technical to start with. Something with a keyboard.

A Casio keyboard of course :getin:

Specifically a Casio WK-7600, its got everything. I got a Casio keyboard when I was 14 and it made my love synth music, I would have gone nuts if I got this and its cheap right now!
https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/WK7600--casio-wk-7600-76-key-portable-arranger
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qfNln2Y0B4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUZCkSEC9sM

Rutibex fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jul 24, 2021

JamesKPolk
Apr 9, 2009

a loathsome bird posted:

i spent way too long on this lol


:sickos:

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004

Ok Comboomer posted:

petit choux posted:

Or even an Android, I think. I've seen some cool looking apps but haven't tried them. A lot of the people who don't use computers have no problem doing stuff on their phone.
Android’s audio implementation is....well it’s better than Windows’ at least
I have a current gen iPod and Android phone and tablet, and there's waaaaay more synth stuff on the Apple Store. iPads have even more.

So Math
Jan 8, 2013

Ghostly Clothier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOfpQt4KFCc

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine

toadee posted:

Through troubleshooting all of this I've come across so many little hacky programs and drivers. ASIO4ALL, FlexASIO, VM Banana, JACK for Windows, etc. None of it particularly intuitive, or stable. And, really though, it feels like it comes down to a glaring fault of the OS to not have modernized anything about the sound system.

Don't forget that those hacky programs can/do introduce lots of latency and don't necessarily talk to each other! I even bought a Scarlett 4i4 for the loopback driver and trying to bring a WDM application (eg Zoom) fully into the ASIO loop was still impossible because WDM devices have have be stereo. So the loopback channels get aggregated together in one direction, instead of allowing bidirectional mono. And you can't try to use JACK or ReaStream because those are ASIO only, and the only WDM-ASIO bridge out there is some undocumented thing by the VM Banana guy with an incomprehensible UI, high latency, and questionable/no compatibility with ReaStream/JACK :sun:

I converted back to Windows from Linux so that I could use Komplete Start and I never, ever, ever, EVER thought I would find myself saying that the Linux audio experience Just Worked while Windows is a fragmented kludge. Welp, time makes fools of us all!

Mad Dragon posted:

I have a current gen iPod and Android phone and tablet, and there's waaaaay more synth stuff on the Apple Store. iPads have even more.

I recently did a little Googling on Android audio latency and the status of advanced audio for music. The basic answer I got is "lol" and that Samsung is fragmenting what progress has been made by trying to come up with their own thing. My old Galaxy Tab S3 hasn't had a software update in over a year so it may be time to get over my loathing of iTunes.

The Voice of Labor
Apr 8, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!
android device audio latency was a big problem like 6 or 7 years ago. maybe that's the unwritten deal between apple and google, that android devices get keyboards but apple devices get all the audio apps

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

The biggest problem with iOS stuff is all the apps are designed for iPads and are agony to use on a phone. On the other hand, it's good that 99% of them are buy once use anywhere so at least you can do it,.

Latency seems good enough, and the form factor (whether a phone or tablet) is unbeatable for screwing around away from home.

Mr. Sharps
Jul 30, 2006

The only true law is that which leads to freedom. There is no other.



Laserjet 4P posted:

picking a more exciting waveform instead of a saw or triangle core does not suddenly not make it different from subtractive

the concept of subtractive synthesis is:

- start with a harmonically rich waveform like a dwat, or a dwow
- remove harmonics

where that waveform comes from or how you remove harmonics is out of scope

this is defined so that it can be distinguished from additive synthesis, which is:

- start with a harmonically poor waveform (sine)
- throw a bunch of 'm together or modulate them to create additional harmonics

additive synthesis was a thing when you only had lab equipment and you could generate several sines at precise pitches, then record that to tape and cut it up, or when a computer was used to calculate the pitches over time and could spit out some pdp-11 assembly code which could then be tediously converted to the right voltage

an electronic circuit has no problems generating a stable saw or triangle wave. in fact, you only need a saw wave to begin with to turn it into a square - just amplify it until it clips, basically, and this is why old synths just have saw + square. that whole stability is important because you don't want to have poo poo getting out of tune

when you want to make a more complex sound, you need several oscillators. if you put 'm together, they can get out of tune easily, and either way, this eats up quite some resources and makes the circuit harder to stabilize or you need more parts. no problem if you just have a monosynth, but if you want 8 voices, you're paying through the nose for it

when the microprocessor revolution for synths got underway, someone came up with the idea to fix two things at once.

- you can store very short samples in ram for a reasonable price
- a sample of a saw wave looks like this: 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, 1 (and so on, and in binary, but you get the idea)
- you can put whatever sample you want in there, it doesn't have to be saws as long as it fits
- if you play that sample with a clock that's running at several megahertz and then divide that clock signal to audible range, you can get a very stable signal, because the clock itself can be stabilized really easily. meanwhile, generating a very stable 3.245 volts is much harder, so if it fluctuates so 3.246 your note is suddenly out of tune

then you convert those numbers in ram to voltages and smooth them out a bit, you get any waveform you want. if you do atari-racing-the-beam-style changes in ram where you update the waveform after it's finished playing, you can change waveforms while they're being played

in the 1980s this was huge - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PPG_Wave

nowadays it's huge because it allows for cool waveforms besides the vanilla saw + pulse and if you play those complex waveshapes back at a low pitch you get all these gnarly effects that brostep kids love

also, wavetable synths like pigments, vital et al tend to be "supersynths". a jupiter 8 has 2 LFOs, vital has 8 of 'm and they can be pointed to anything and everything

a wavetable is a film strip of waveforms that all have an equal pitch. you can scrub forwards and backwards between them. if you start with a square and end with a sine, a wavetable oscillator will fill in the blanks and slowly morph from one shape to another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvBl3YUBUyY

lol all of this is completely useless knowledge, buy what you can afford and hit record

And that’s why the shapeshifter is the best wavetable oscillator b/c it lets you index the samples in each 512 sample waveform with any other arbitrary waveform

trilobite terror
Oct 20, 2007
BUT MY LIVELIHOOD DEPENDS ON THE FORUMS!

Discussion Quorum posted:

Don't forget that those hacky programs can/do introduce lots of latency and don't necessarily talk to each other! I even bought a Scarlett 4i4 for the loopback driver and trying to bring a WDM application (eg Zoom) fully into the ASIO loop was still impossible because WDM devices have have be stereo. So the loopback channels get aggregated together in one direction, instead of allowing bidirectional mono. And you can't try to use JACK or ReaStream because those are ASIO only, and the only WDM-ASIO bridge out there is some undocumented thing by the VM Banana guy with an incomprehensible UI, high latency, and questionable/no compatibility with ReaStream/JACK :sun:

I converted back to Windows from Linux so that I could use Komplete Start and I never, ever, ever, EVER thought I would find myself saying that the Linux audio experience Just Worked while Windows is a fragmented kludge. Welp, time makes fools of us all!

I recently did a little Googling on Android audio latency and the status of advanced audio for music. The basic answer I got is "lol" and that Samsung is fragmenting what progress has been made by trying to come up with their own thing. My old Galaxy Tab S3 hasn't had a software update in over a year so it may be time to get over my loathing of iTunes.

why would you need to ever use iTunes? I'm serious, I don't think I've ever used iTunes to manage an iOS device since like 2011

Discussion Quorum
Dec 5, 2002
Armchair Philistine
Can you just access it like an external drive now (from a Windows/Linux PC)? Guess I need to look into it again.

Last time I dabbled in iPad ownership (2018), that was definitely not a thing. It's why I returned it and bought my now-abandoned Tab S3 (definitely a bit of "pick your poison" regardless of choice, I guess).

Laserjet 4P
Mar 28, 2005

What does it mean?
Fun Shoe

a loathsome bird posted:

i spent way too long on this lol


:same:

So Math
Jan 8, 2013

Ghostly Clothier
I updated my ROLI scripts and added a few more:

Bresenham is a four-track Euclidean rhythm generator.

Gauss is a CC generator like Henon, but with a different algorithm.

The Voice of Labor
Apr 8, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 5 days!
username post combo

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

So Math posted:

I updated my ROLI scripts and added a few more:

Bresenham is a four-track Euclidean rhythm generator.

Gauss is a CC generator like Henon, but with a different algorithm.

I think you have to give us a demonstration. I've always been curious about these Roli toys.

So Math
Jan 8, 2013

Ghostly Clothier
Sure thing! I've been meaning to do a demonstration video after I had a decent number of these working.

Trig Discipline
Jun 3, 2008

Please leave the room if you think this might offend you.
Grimey Drawer
Oh hey, Pigments is on sale for $99 again.

https://www.adsrsounds.com/product/software/arturia-pigments-3-polychrome-software-synthesizer/

Mad Dragon
Feb 29, 2004

You can buy it directly form Arturia for the same price.

https://www.arturia.com/products/analog-classics/pigments/overview#en

Trig Discipline
Jun 3, 2008

Please leave the room if you think this might offend you.
Grimey Drawer
Ah right on, that's definitely the better option.

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?
I came here 2.5 years ago to ask about pocket operators and ended up with a PO20 Arcade. I think I picked an awesome starter.

I’ve been in quarantine this week so I decided to step it up and got the PO12 Rhythm to take the drums so the Arcade can prioritize bleep bloops and effects. I then decided I want to lift small voice clips off vinyl to throw in so the PO35 Speak is out for deliver today.

These things are fun but I’m worried they’re a gateway to spending the big bucks.

toadee
Aug 16, 2003

North American Turtle Boy Love Association

Looks like Behringer are cloning an Aphex Twin staple https://www.gearnews.com/behringer-adds-the-pearl-syncussion-sy-1-to-their-growing-list-of-prototypes/

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

Rolo posted:

I came here 2.5 years ago to ask about pocket operators and ended up with a PO20 Arcade. I think I picked an awesome starter.

I’ve been in quarantine this week so I decided to step it up and got the PO12 Rhythm to take the drums so the Arcade can prioritize bleep bloops and effects. I then decided I want to lift small voice clips off vinyl to throw in so the PO35 Speak is out for deliver today.

These things are fun but I’m worried they’re a gateway to spending the big bucks.

Just buy an OP-1 and get it over with

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?

Rutibex posted:

Just buy an OP-1 and get it over with

I want one but

1) I’m not good enough at this stuff to utilize it.

2) The other thing.

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

Rolo posted:

I came here 2.5 years ago to ask about pocket operators and ended up with a PO20 Arcade. I think I picked an awesome starter.

I’ve been in quarantine this week so I decided to step it up and got the PO12 Rhythm to take the drums so the Arcade can prioritize bleep bloops and effects. I then decided I want to lift small voice clips off vinyl to throw in so the PO35 Speak is out for deliver today.

These things are fun but I’m worried they’re a gateway to spending the big bucks.

I'm doing a similar setup and I'm hoping to not spend any more on it for a bit. This thread is dangerous in that regard.

SpaceGoatFarts
Jan 5, 2010

sic transit gloria mundi


Nap Ghost

Rolo posted:

I came here 2.5 years ago to ask about pocket operators and ended up with a PO20 Arcade. I think I picked an awesome starter.

I’ve been in quarantine this week so I decided to step it up and got the PO12 Rhythm to take the drums so the Arcade can prioritize bleep bloops and effects. I then decided I want to lift small voice clips off vinyl to throw in so the PO35 Speak is out for deliver today.

These things are fun but I’m worried they’re a gateway to spending the big bucks.

If in 2,5 years all you did was buy a PO rythm to complement the Arcade you are not at risk. Over the same period I bought a rythm and robot to go with the arcade, 5 volcas, a mixer, a Keystep, a SE-02, a streichfett and Ableton live. Then I purchased a 0-coast and opened a portal to a bottomless modular abyss with it.

The next 3 years I sold almost all the previous gear plus a few organs to purchase overpriced hipster instruments which are wasted on me.

Yes I have addiction problems why are you asking.


You seem fine :)

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down

I just gotta say, synths loving own, and I feel tremendously happy to make noises with them. Thank you thread for a lot of help getting into synths!

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

Agreed posted:

synths loving own

:hmmyes:

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?
On a whim I plugged my PO into my Realtek line-in on my PC and I'm able to use the base Windows voice recorder to pick it up while recording but I'd like something that could record the inpout while outputting through my desktop speakers what is being recorded.

Any recommendations?

petit choux
Feb 24, 2016

REAPER

Agreed
Dec 30, 2003

The price of meat has just gone up, and your old lady has just gone down


Two licenses over 14 years, mostly love it, it'll definitely do the thing and you can use it for free for some time before it even requests that you get a personal license

Agreed fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jul 26, 2021

Rolo
Nov 16, 2005

Hmm, what have we here?
REAPER is already doing exactly what I was looking for and more, thanks for recommending it! Guess I'm gonna buy it when my license comes due.

Quick PC question, is there a difference between the 3.5mm MIC in on the front of my case and the 3.5mm LINE-IN directly off the motherboard? Am I giving up stereo or quality by using the more convenient plug on the front?

snorch
Jul 27, 2009

Rolo posted:


These things are fun but I’m worried they’re a gateway to spending the big bucks.

You've spent all these bucks so far without getting the 33, which is the last one you'll ever need, unless you develop a taste for the microtonic drums on the 35 enough to buy the 32.

The 33, being a sampler, is definitely the most versatile of the bunch. For some reason I see way too many people just using the stock sounds with it, but once you move past those, it's a gateway to all sorts of sample magic.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

watho
Aug 2, 2013


The real world will, again tomorrow, function and run without me.


oh god oh gently caress

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply