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Payndz posted:The funny thing would be that there was probably a standing arrest warrant on grounds of sedition and treason for all Maquis members, and Chuckles and co spent several years in a New Zealand prison after Voyager got home. I mean really that doesn't sound so bad  But yeah there was a part in a later season episode where Janeway expresses dismay/frustration that Admiral Hayes asked her about the status of both "Federation and Maquis personnel" because she's long since thought of everyone as her crew and doesn't like the implications of Hayes categorizing them like that
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Jul 23, 2021 23:46
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Angry_Ed posted:I mean really that doesn't sound so bad I think the Voyager sequel books go something like “Eh, being stuck in the Delta Quadrant was basically a prison sentence anyway, so case dismissed” and they get off with ‘timed served’ or just get a few months in lock up at most. Chakotay even gets his commission reinstated and promoted to captain when Janeway’s kicked upstairs. Of course, that’s not canon, but whatever. We REALLY needed a denouement episode after Endgame that showed what happened to everyone because it probably would have been a Star Trek IV thing where it’s like “Yes, you’re guilty as poo poo, but you’re all heroes, so gently caress it.”
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Jul 23, 2021 23:59
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Not 100% related but if we are talking Combs... https://twitter.com/jeffreycombs/status/1418606664253464582?s=19
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Jul 24, 2021 00:11
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His Twitter is great and he frequently calls politicians names.
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Jul 24, 2021 00:22
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Payndz posted:The funny thing would be that there was probably a standing arrest warrant on grounds of sedition and treason for all Maquis members, and Chuckles and co spent several years in a New Zealand prison after Voyager got home. I'm guessing they waived that. Though Starfleet can be some serious assholes at times.
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Jul 24, 2021 00:48
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https://twitter.com/nocontexttrek/status/1418720128468979712?s=21
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Jul 24, 2021 00:56
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https://twitter.com/Polygon/status/1418589155492302851 Neat little read. I rewatched Tuvix today and the only new thing I have to add to that conversation is I think Janeway would have let Tuvix live right up until he made Kes cry.
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Jul 24, 2021 04:07
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Farscape is some good poo poo, but the first few episodes are pretty cringe. Power through it, and by season 3 it has some of the best sci-fi writing on any tv show ever. Just note that season 4 was kind of a soft reboot of the show and they were promised a full S4 and 5 by the channel and then promptly surprise cancelled at the end off S4. Like it was apparently a surprise to the cast that the sets were being struck during their season wrap party.
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Jul 24, 2021 04:14
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What gets me about Tuvix is that it could have been more ambiguous and more interesting. Say Tuvix *isn't* really as good at the job and they *do* really need Tuvok back. Lean into Kes's grief and misery at Neelix being gone. Show Janeway just distraught at the loss of her best friend. It wouldn't make her decision morally correct but it would make it understandable.
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Jul 24, 2021 04:35
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HopperUK posted:What gets me about Tuvix is that it could have been more ambiguous and more interesting. Say Tuvix *isn't* really as good at the job and they *do* really need Tuvok back. Lean into Kes's grief and misery at Neelix being gone. Show Janeway just distraught at the loss of her best friend. It wouldn't make her decision morally correct but it would make it understandable. Seeing this made me realize how odd the chief of securitys job is, you are responsible for all onboard ship security personal also you are the primary person for shooting the phasers two entirely different areas that really should be done by two different people.
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Jul 24, 2021 04:52
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HopperUK posted:What gets me about Tuvix is that it could have been more ambiguous and more interesting. Say Tuvix *isn't* really as good at the job and they *do* really need Tuvok back. Lean into Kes's grief and misery at Neelix being gone. Show Janeway just distraught at the loss of her best friend. It wouldn't make her decision morally correct but it would make it understandable. Yeah, lean into the human dilemma of Janeway's choice. She has a chance to save her best friend, a person who means an unfathomable lot to her, from the void of death, but it comes at the cost of murdering an innocent person, a person she's come to know, like, and respect in the brief time she's known him. That's sort of the ultimate temptation and just frame in a "what would YOU do in the situation?" Also they were so concerned with showing Janeway to be a strong, unassailable woman and not have her show weakness or emotion, but that would have been a good excuse to have he walk out of Sickbay all stonefaced after pushing the button and then just break down in the corridor out of sight of the room because she's been holding it back for as long as she could.
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Jul 24, 2021 04:56
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socialsecurity posted:Seeing this made me realize how odd the chief of securitys job is, you are responsible for all onboard ship security personal also you are the primary person for shooting the phasers two entirely different areas that really should be done by two different people. That's why they call him two vok, he does two jobs. But I think their tactical officer died in the first episode
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Jul 24, 2021 04:59
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Tuvix is one of several Voyager episodes that just confuses the hell out of me because I can't understand what the writers were thinking or why they made the choices they did. It has tons of elements that are legitimately good and interesting, but there's just something inherently wrong about the core dilemma. Tuvok and Neelix are gone. Tuvix is alive. It's not actually the trolley dilemma because the trolley dilemma relies heavily on the fact that inaction will lead to deaths that haven't occurred yet. Tuvix doesn't have that problem and inaction doesn't lead to any new deaths, while acting requires literal murder. It's like Course: Oblivion in that the whole thing is incredibly dark in a way that's mean-spirited and doesn't seem to really have a point at all. Like, it's so hosed up that not a single person on the crew aside from the Doctor stood up for Tuvix, and even his objections were mild at best. edit- and honestly, it's incredibly hosed up that anyone expected Tuvix to voluntarily commit suicide Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jul 24, 2021 |
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Jul 24, 2021 05:10
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mixing the character i hated most on the show with the character i liked best did not endear me with the mix. Also Kes can die in a fire.
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Jul 24, 2021 05:12
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nine-gear crow posted:Yeah, lean into the human dilemma of Janeway's choice. She has a chance to save her best friend, a person who means an unfathomable lot to her, from the void of death, but it comes at the cost of murdering an innocent person, a person she's come to know, like, and respect in the brief time she's known him. That's sort of the ultimate temptation and just frame in a "what would YOU do in the situation?" I think what really makes the Tuvix situation so bad is how its handled in the end. He is just suddenly taken away with nobody saying anything as he begs for his life. Nobody even tries to argue he shouldn't be killed. Janeway might have made the ultimate decision, but everyone else is just as guilty. (Well Kes stabs him in the back to save her boyfriend).
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Jul 24, 2021 05:15
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Yeah, the bridge scene is just hilariously bad because everything boils down to every single main cast member basically being like "I want my friends back so I guess you have to die"
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Jul 24, 2021 05:43
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Tuvix gets split apart, and Neelix, now finally possessing an outside context for his own existence, immediately grabs a phaser off the nearest security officer and vaporizes himself. Janeway orders Tuvok back to his post.
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Jul 24, 2021 06:11
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The Enterprise episode "Similitude" has a more realistic version of the same sort of dilemma, where a clone is bred specifically for the purpose of providing organs to a dying crew member and will not have much of a life of his own either way.
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Jul 24, 2021 14:02
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Seven of Nine in picard always makes me smile. Cause it makes the whole "going back in time to save her friends especially my first officer and his newly wed wife" utterly meaningless.
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Jul 24, 2021 16:48
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Axe-man posted:Seven of Nine in picard always makes me smile. Cause it makes the whole "going back in time to save her friends especially my first officer and his newly wed wife" utterly meaningless. Look she cured Tuvok's dementia, that's her best friend. Also instead of losing Chakotay and being sad, Seven got to raise he sucked and dump him on her own terms
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Jul 24, 2021 16:53
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The real hosed up thing about Tuvix is they just wrote it that way. They could have ended it differently. They could have written an out where everybody wins. But they went all in on "here's a shifty choice janeway has to make and both end results have a terrible consequence and one in particular makes her look like a monster to a lot of people" and then they made her go through with the choice. That rules, frankly.
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Jul 24, 2021 16:55
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There's a reason the 'evil Janeway' memes exist
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Jul 24, 2021 17:03
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Khanstant posted:Just watched "Good Shepard." Seven identifies some lower decks shlubs and suggests they just let em be freeloaders instead of inferior workers. Janeway decides to take them on an impromptu away-mission, just her and these goobs. Some dark matter phenomena damages their shuttle, turns out to be some kind of dark matter lifeform that infects one of the scrubs. Thing eventually bursts out of the dude's neck and flops onto the computer console and is doing *something* to the ship, Janeway says to let it ride, maybe it wants to talk. Scared loser shoots it to death, actually obliterates it. She's pissed and takes action since it's now overtly hostile situation, starts to lure the dark matterlings into some radiogenic ring, tells the kiddos to scram and chill on a moon, because she's gonna try and blow up it all up. Two decide to stay and help, one bails in escape pod -- but he's actually doing a marginally-noble self-pitying suicide mission instead. Janeway chases after to save his rear end and still start the chain reaction. It works but they're all crashed up and knocked out and get picked up by Voyager later. Didn't it turn out one of the schlubs was some guy literally stuck at the bottom of the ship who just had to press a button or something, but who had an advanced degree in astrophysics and only joined Starfleet for the practical experience to get into a prestigious university to continue his studies, while there was an ensign in Astrometrics who kept making mistakes and was miserable? All they had to do was swap those two's jobs and that's two problems solved in one go.
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Jul 24, 2021 17:33
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Yvonmukluk posted:Didn't it turn out one of the schlubs was some guy literally stuck at the bottom of the ship who just had to press a button or something, but who had an advanced degree in astrophysics and only joined Starfleet for the practical experience to get into a prestigious university to continue his studies, while there was an ensign in Astrometrics who kept making mistakes and was miserable? All they had to do was swap those two's jobs and that's two problems solved in one go. The worst thing about that episode is that the premise is that on a ship with a crew of ~150, there's a dozen odd crewmembers that Janeway has never met and doesn't really know what their working conditions are.
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Jul 24, 2021 17:58
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I love that on a ship of about 140, an absolutely tiny community (both socially and physically) in which everyone would get to know everyone else very quickly, the writers proposed the idea of people who got lost in both some byzantine Starfleet bureaucracy and the bowels of the ship and had to be rescued from anonymous mediocrity by the captain. E: lol
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Jul 24, 2021 17:59
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Voyager's writers just needed to make sure they disrespected every possible aspect of their show's premise
Paradoxish fucked around with this message at 18:41 on Jul 24, 2021 |
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Jul 24, 2021 18:37
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If I were Capt I definitely would not meet every crewman even if we just had 150. They need to know there are levels that exist above them they'll never even interact with.
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Jul 24, 2021 18:48
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They have some guy in the bowels of the ship who just pushes a button, but no people to train as field nurses
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Jul 24, 2021 18:48
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FlamingLiberal posted:They have some guy in the bowels of the ship who just pushes a button, but no people to train as field nurses Well it's not like he can leave his post, somebody gotta press that button. It's the "nacelles stay on" button
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Jul 24, 2021 18:52
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Well it's not like he can leave his post, somebody gotta press that button. It's the "nacelles stay on" button Ah so Voyager-J is what happens when they fire that guy?
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Jul 24, 2021 18:55
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FlamingLiberal posted:They have some guy in the bowels of the ship who just pushes a button, but no people to train as field nurses Also they didn't even reestablish Astrometics till 7 joined IIRC, so where did the crew working there come from? What was Ensign Fumbles doing until that point?
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Jul 24, 2021 19:32
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I always like how these sophisticated starships with complex systems and internal spaces spread all over the place even have the concept of the nobodies being down in the "lower decks" like they're down in the engineering spaces under the waterline on the freaking Titanic.
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Jul 24, 2021 19:41
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Axe-man posted:Seven of Nine in picard always makes me smile. Cause it makes the whole "going back in time to save her friends especially my first officer and his newly wed wife" utterly meaningless. Janeway had to meddle in time, since otherwise the enterprise would have 3 nacelles and romulus would have survived.
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Jul 24, 2021 19:43
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John Wick of Dogs posted:If I were Capt I definitely would not meet every crewman even if we just had 150. They need to know there are levels that exist above them they'll never even interact with. I would. Do you know how easy it is to take over the ship? People do it all the time, I'd wanna know everyone's faces just in case and not to alienate some unabomber weirdo hiding in the rafters who might take advantage of a quasar qwoplinium accident to become captain or whatever.
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Jul 24, 2021 19:48
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Khanstant posted:I would. Do you know how easy it is to take over the ship? People do it all the time, I'd wanna know everyone's faces just in case and not to alienate some unabomber weirdo hiding in the rafters who might take advantage of a quasar qwoplinium accident to become captain or whatever. What's hilarious about this is the fact that we saw in "Brothers" how easy it could be to completely lock down the bridge and restrict voice commands to bridge consoles. But this knowledge is thoroughly forgotten in subsequent episodes and even the Ferengi are able to stroll onto the bridge of the Enterprise and take it over at one point. Probably not even the most egregious example of convenient memory-holing.
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Jul 24, 2021 20:20
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Haven't finished the ep yet, but last night before bed Janeway beamed 204 Klingon zealots who only just learned about the khitomer accord. Presumably they're gonna die or go away by end of that episode, but lol if they didn't. Klingons outnumber the Fed crew, would love at least a few episodes about this. before the inevitable attempt at hostile takeover by bored cabin fever klingons, i'm thinking they use democracy to get them to lower lights on the ship to make it more klingony and its a democracy and they outvote lights up.
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Jul 24, 2021 21:49
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John Wick of Dogs posted:Well it's not like he can leave his post, somebody gotta press that button. It's the "nacelles stay on" button
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Jul 24, 2021 22:08
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Tunicate posted:Janeway had to meddle in time, since otherwise the enterprise would have 3 nacelles and romulus would have survived. I maintain to this day that the tri-nacelle Enterprise was the only thing Q personally tweaked about the All Good Things future and did it purely to gently caress with Picard. "Your ship is ugly, Jean-Luc, it's been ugly since the day I first saw it, so I'm going to make it even uglier... because gently caress you."
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Jul 24, 2021 22:26
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Sash! posted:I always like how these sophisticated starships with complex systems and internal spaces spread all over the place even have the concept of the nobodies being down in the "lower decks" like they're down in the engineering spaces under the waterline on the freaking Titanic. The obvious divide would be interior/exterior, though which one is more desirable depends on how easy it is to shoot out the windows. Given the transparent aluminium, I suspect it is not easy to do.
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Jul 24, 2021 22:38
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Using power to leverage democracy is something that rarely seems to happen in sci-fi conflicts, but in practice, there could some mechanism like a Senate or Electoral College in which the side with the most power gets more votes per person
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