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If we take the port we hopefully A) Have a place to refuel and B) Deny it to the enemy to do so. If they're as far out here as we are then they won't have a lot of great range either. Also if we make landings then they're going to have to come and contest them or abandon the place, which will mess with thier allies if they just get dropped. But ultimately yielding to the consensus if we go for the attack or not. or there a discussion at this point or not?
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Jul 25, 2021 02:30
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wedgekree posted:If we take the port we hopefully A) Have a place to refuel and B) Deny it to the enemy to do so. If they're as far out here as we are then they won't have a lot of great range either. I'd say take a quick 5, consult with our Agamemnones friends, see if they have any insights into this (I assume their military commanders are briefed in) and also confirm if we are still all good to attack. If so I say we quickly neutralize the Red Hand's spaceborne assets and get boots on the ground pronto. Hopefully we can help our Brazilian friend and anyone else held captive on Argentina. Biggest question is those transmissions, we should ask the Agamemnones if the Red Hand has any friends/forced tributaries in the area who might try and come in to their assistance, we're operating in a lot of uncomfortable fog of war in this sector so we don't have a good idea of the lay of the land. Worse case, the other major rocks are paying tribute to this Ji person and are starting to burn for Argentina, or even worse, Ji is in cahoots with Achillies (very very doubtful). Unless our allies get cold feet I say get the info and if nothing major changes, we go with the OG plan, clear the sky, burn for the ground, smash, grab, liberate, refuel and come home for some vodka. Jimmy4400nav fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jul 25, 2021 |
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Jul 25, 2021 03:01
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We need to investigate whether the station was boobytrapped, these pirates sound a little cray so it's not beyond the bounds
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Jul 25, 2021 03:19
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sebmojo posted:We need to investigate whether the station was boobytrapped, these pirates sound a little cray so it's not beyond the bounds Agreed. I could easily see Li Ji not enjoying the thought of other people playing with her toys.
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Jul 25, 2021 03:24
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Jimmy4400nav posted:I'd say take a quick 5, consult with our Agamemnones friends, see if they have any insights into this (I assume their military commanders are briefed in) and also confirm if we are still all good to attack. If so I say we quickly neutralize the Red Hand's spaceborne assets and get boots on the ground pronto. Hopefully we can help our Brazilian friend and anyone else held captive on Argentina. Agree on that (also ask the Agamemnons if the pirates are known to use bobby traps and if we do land we should be careful).
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Jul 25, 2021 04:24
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Also the station might have a ground radar that could extend our sensor range deeper into the cluster. Information is valuable.
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Jul 25, 2021 13:05
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Well, if the locals don't want to die for their glorious master they're welcome to honorably surrender in the face of our overwhelming force, we treat surrenders well and I wouldn't want to kill anyone we don't need to. But we are coming aboard Argentina station and rifling through the administrators address book so we can find out where Li Ji lives and go shoot her. We can come aboard with or without having to break out the power armor and shoot a bunch of hapless locals, their choice. I'd really prefer they just surrender/let us dock for "trade" and cooperate when we ask for directions though, they don't seem particularly enthusiastic about their psycho warlord and hopefully aren't going to die for her. Crazycryodude fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Jul 25, 2021 |
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Jul 25, 2021 16:15
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I dunno, this level of obsequious deference is extreme even if Li Ji is just that terrifying, and she seems to trust her cowed peons to be her go-between and speak on her behalf exactly and not reveal her location even faced with a substantial retaliatory fleet. There's gotta be something tying these people to this rock and service to the Red Hands, something to keep them obedient to the point she'd never expect them to flee or betray. My guess? She's keeping Argentina loyal with hostages back at her actual base. Seems like the ruthless pirate thing to do, and ensures that Argentina will fight to the last to not fail her. We need some "blink twice if you're in danger" type coded communication with Argentina. We have to assume everything we both say is automatically relayed back to base to be monitored, but if we can talk discretely somehow, Argentina might confirm or deny a few things. Asterite34 fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Jul 25, 2021 |
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Jul 25, 2021 16:38
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Jimmy4400nav posted:I'd say take a quick 5, consult with our Agamemnones friends, see if they have any insights into this (I assume their military commanders are briefed in) and also confirm if we are still all good to attack. If so I say we quickly neutralize the Red Hand's spaceborne assets and get boots on the ground pronto. Hopefully we can help our Brazilian friend and anyone else held captive on Argentina. You quickly confer with the Agamemnese commander. They just want to dive in, raze the place, and move on to do the same to any other suspect colonies you can find in the area. Their interest doesn't seem to extend beyond destroying any hint of a threat to their home as expeditiously as possible. You all don't really know anything abut the local situation. You can presume the Red Hands extract tribute from people cause they demanded the Agamemnese themselves pay up.
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Jul 25, 2021 17:58
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It's clear this is a captive population, so we want to minimize damage while acquiring our objectives: 1) The location of the main Red Hand base. 2) Sufficient fuel to reach said base. Unfortunately when it comes down to it the solution to these problems is basically just board, hope we don't kill too many people, and the station isn't boobytrapped to kill everyone.
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Jul 25, 2021 18:28
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Fray posted:You quickly confer with the Agamemnese commander. They just want to dive in, raze the place, and move on to do the same to any other suspect colonies you can find in the area. Their interest doesn't seem to extend beyond destroying any hint of a threat to their home as expeditiously as possible. You all don't really know anything abut the local situation. You can presume the Red Hands extract tribute from people cause they demanded the Agamemnese themselves pay up. Satisfying our potential ally and solving our ally's problem might have become mutually exclusive.
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Jul 25, 2021 18:51
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You know, it took a JoveRunner and a good planetary alignment for this colony to be in extended range of anyone else, these people are probably stuck out here. We probably have a lot of space left on the Ashes, what if we offered them a way out, resettlement back to Hektor or at least the Trojan cluster? Plastering the colony so these pirates can't use it to gently caress with us is kind of non-negotiable at this point, but we don't necessarily have to turn it into a massacre.
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Jul 25, 2021 19:22
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Ceebees posted:You know, it took a JoveRunner and a good planetary alignment for this colony to be in extended range of anyone else, these people are probably stuck out here. We probably have a lot of space left on the Ashes, what if we offered them a way out, resettlement back to Hektor or at least the Trojan cluster? Plastering the colony so these pirates can't use it to gently caress with us is kind of non-negotiable at this point, but we don't necessarily have to turn it into a massacre. The Ashes has room for 200 passengers and 60 flight crew, in addition to 352 normal crew and 2000 "tons" of troops (the number is left vague, but works out to about 400 "units" of infantry). In Aurora having excess people onboard causes the life support to start breaking down, so if we want to really crowd things in and risk some failures (it's only a few weeks back) we're probably talking a thousand people or so. IIRC the population of asteroids so far numbered in the hundreds of thousands to millions. We might be able to offer transport off the rock to a few collaborators and their families, though. Bremen fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 25, 2021 |
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Jul 25, 2021 19:59
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I don't know if I'm the only one who's thinking like this, but helping out this colony doesn't seem like it's mutually exclusive with staying allied with Agamemnon. Destroying any ships in orbit will only weaken the pirate forces, and I don't see any reason we can't just say "hey these people down there are basically hostages, let's not nuke the site from orbit." A ground invasion might be a bit much of a commitment right now, though, and honestly I don't see the value in it when it's pretty clear our main target is somewhere else. Besides once she goes down I doubt the occupying forces (if any) will hold together - and if they do then we can start sending in marines.
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Jul 25, 2021 20:02
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Bremen posted:The Ashes has room for 200 passengers and 60 flight crew, in addition to 352 normal crew and 2000 "tons" of troops (the number is left vague, but works out to about 400 "units" of infantry). In Aurora having excess people onboard causes the life support to start breaking down, so if we want to really crowd things in and risk some failures (it's only a few weeks back) we're probably talking a thousand people or so. IIRC the population of asteroids so far numbered in the hundreds of thousands to millions. drat, too bad we converted the colony ship into a freighter, that might have made any possible evac a little easier. Unless they have big empty ships out here it sounds like we can't evac a lotta folks, which is a shame. Morrow posted:It's clear this is a captive population, so we want to minimize damage while acquiring our objectives: habituallyred posted:Satisfying our potential ally and solving our ally's problem might have become mutually exclusive. Yeah, I feel for these folk out here, stuck under a pirate boot heel, but at the end of the day we came out here to do a job, and we need to make sure our allies are happy. That said like Marrow said there's no reason we have to turn this into a massacre, the ideal would be neutralizing the pirate threat on Argentina, find out where the Red Hard are in the belt, make sure we can reach them and then wax 'em. Take our Ji and her core and the whole rotten edifice should hopefully crumble. That makes our ally happy and possibly frees this cluster for a better future for after they orbit away. That would be the ideal anyways. Fray posted:You quickly confer with the Agamemnese commander. They just want to dive in, raze the place, and move on to do the same to any other suspect colonies you can find in the area. Their interest doesn't seem to extend beyond destroying any hint of a threat to their home as expeditiously as possible. You all don't really know anything abut the local situation. You can presume the Red Hands extract tribute from people cause they demanded the Agamemnese themselves pay up. Sound like we and our allies are on at least 80% the same page. Getting boots on the ground might be a little more costly, but if we can secure valuable intel/salvage from here, we can hopefully find the head of this snake that's threatening them and go deal it a mortal blow. *Edit* ^^^ Basically what Snark said above.
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Jul 25, 2021 20:12
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I think also setting ourselves in a temporary blockade is likely to get everyone in the area to come after us. But that also means that they know exactly who we are/what we have. I think a quick attack honestly to secure fuel is useful but also really a tossup and not sure how we are on range. Hostages makes sense. Also uh could we jam them at all? I mean, jamming right after they sent out a distress call (or whatever that encrypted thing was) make sit look like they're putting up a fight/resisting. Also means that anyone else in the area is likelier to rush to the area or scatter. Also it would require them to cooperate and put us at a general risk of being swarmed with everything in the area. wedgekree fucked around with this message at 23:00 on Jul 25, 2021 |
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Jul 25, 2021 22:32
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Troop tonnage to units isn't a fair conversion because you are theoretically factoring in ammo, armor/suits, weapons, and all the fiddly poo poo that comes with moving an army around. If we were basically acting as a refugee service and packing em in we could likely take a multiple of the number we are rated for ground troops. That being said its not physical space but what our life support can handle which is the biggy.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:30
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My guess is that this entire colony is effectively held hostage to their continued "good behavior", in that either they fight us and die, or whoever didn't fight hard enough will be punished for "treason" when the cruiser returns. The cruiser itself may well have decided to just hang around out of danger with this weighing over their heads, to ambush us on the return if she's in the area.
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Jul 26, 2021 01:03
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Anyone we send in should proceed on the assumption that hostiles are already on the way towards us.
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Jul 26, 2021 01:16
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So presuming that the place is hostile with folks as 'hostages' and that we have our status being monitored and our caravan fully reported on, what are tentative game plans? Since Agamemnon just wants to level the place and move on (I think). And also given Agammenon said 'each colony' there are others out here that are bases?
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Jul 26, 2021 02:20
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I think sending in a shuttle and charming/heavying some info out of them would be good. Even knowing how long they take to respond to comms would be valuable. Will refueling put us in a vulnerable state if the pirates come back? If so and if we aren't in danger of running out I think it may be too big a risk.
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Jul 26, 2021 02:31
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Alright, plans. Let's call this one plan Russian Viking. First, send a threatening message. Say Li Ji has threatened the wrong people and it's time to pay. Give them one chance to surrender. Then move in with all ships, weapons hot. Maybe they're controlled by threats to hostages, maybe not, but we can't just sit around and mope about how tragic things are. Ideally we'd like to take out the two corvettes in orbit (though if they run we probably can't catch them), and I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of defense battery opens up as we close either. We shoot anything that shoots at us. Unless they have some pretty extreme harbor guns we should be able to take them easily. Once enemy weapons are suppressed, we send in troops. We may find info on Li Ji, in which case we decide what to do then, but if not we loot everything not nailed down (particularly the tribute that was mentioned) and not vital to life support, and leave a message that Li Ji has paid the fine for messing with us and better not threaten the Jupiter trojans again.
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Jul 26, 2021 03:42
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Bremen posted:Alright, plans. Let's call this one plan Russian Viking. I'm normally for a fairly soft line, but yeh this sounds mostly good. I would say that we should make the Agamemnonese complicit in our looting. If we do not hang together we shall all hang separately and all that. If just us loot it looks bad, if both of us loot it looks more like we are making sure they don't become a threat again.
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Jul 26, 2021 21:54
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I still say that these guys would eagerly spill the location of the REAL pirate base if we could just communicate with them covertly somehow, a full ground invasion feels like overkill. Save our resources for the BIG fight. Because, yeah, there's gonna be a big fight after this one. These guys are patsies and go-betweens, I'm sure the Red Hands have others just like them. Even if we burn it to the ground and strip every valuable from these peasants, it's not gonna be, like, intimidating. This place is DESIGNED to be disposable. It invites retaliation at the time and place of Ji Li's choosing.
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Jul 26, 2021 22:07
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I think we should go active sensors, give out a ping. I think this is an ambush.
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Jul 26, 2021 22:37
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Our actives are already on, this is all we can see
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Jul 26, 2021 22:41
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...say, there's an idea. We could use the active sensors as a coded communication channel and bypass Ji Li listening in to the relayed tightbeam broadcast. Ping them in Morse Code!
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Jul 26, 2021 22:53
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Asterite34 posted:...say, there's an idea. We could use the active sensors as a coded communication channel and bypass Ji Li listening in to the relayed tightbeam broadcast. Ping them in Morse Code! That requires them to know what we're doing in the first place to pick it up!
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Jul 26, 2021 23:09
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wedgekree posted:That requires them to know what we're doing in the first place to pick it up! Hope they recognize Morse Code when they hear it, I suppose.
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Jul 26, 2021 23:11
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Asterite34 posted:Hope they recognize Morse Code when they hear it, I suppose. In that case we could (if they agree and do in fact have hostages) 'bombard' which takes out the communications array and the 'planetary defenses'. But that also requires the corvettes to behave which they have no guarantees of. While we would like to take here by diplomacy these folks are (no matter the circumstances) harboring pirates and the enemy of our ally. Pragmatically there's no real reason (that we can tell in universe) to go nice on them and hold off. Also hesitancy will look bad to Agamemnon if we're resisting our side of the deal. Unless there's an immediate way we -can- get a fast deal and know they'll hold thier end of it, in-universe we have no real reason to hold off. But I can definitely get being squeamish on open slaughte on folks we totally outclass and us thinking that if we get them cooperative we get a lot more useful info and just taking here doesn't get us a lot useful if we assault it. So, I'm open.
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Jul 26, 2021 23:39
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wedgekree posted:That requires them to know what we're doing in the first place to pick it up! This is the problem with all the "send them a secret message" They hafta know we're sending it. And we're assuming that it;s a remote hostage keeper, not someone in the room
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Jul 26, 2021 23:56
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Tapping out "BLINK TWICE IF YOU NEED TO BE RESCUED" in Morse with the actives is something we might as well try while we're approaching no matter what the plan is, the worst case is just nothing happens.
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Jul 27, 2021 00:21
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I mean, don't get me wrong, I totally wanna help folks if they're being press ganged by these pirates into helping, but that being said I really don't think we should be bending over backwards to try and find a compromise to do it, especially if it pisses off Agamemnon because we're going slow on whats supposed to be a burn n' turn operation. If we can get a quick message out and get a timely reply with a reasonable option to present to our allies, sweet, but if not...welll *clack* sorry little space rock, nothing personal.
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Jul 27, 2021 05:42
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Jimmy4400nav posted:I mean, don't get me wrong, I totally wanna help folks if they're being press ganged by these pirates into helping, but that being said I really don't think we should be bending over backwards to try and find a compromise to do it, especially if it pisses off Agamemnon because we're going slow on whats supposed to be a burn n' turn operation. Yeah, this op is for Agamemnon. If there'sa way we can rapidly figure out what's up and find a way to work the situation to help the folks, then by all means. But we have a lot bigger stuff to do. I'm all for trying o setup covert communication but we're not in the best place to investigate.
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Jul 27, 2021 06:44
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I think Russian Viking is really our best choice. They have the chance to surrender, or even explain or whatever as we take out/capture the ships. If they say something persuasive enough we can stop the fighting at that point. In any case, the big goal for me is information. We need to know more about these pirates. How powerful are they? What's their operating territory? Though if we also capture a couple more hulls I'm not going to argue.
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Jul 27, 2021 07:03
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Or if we can top off our fuel tanks at the least. Though our preference would be for our own people to do the refueling. Would be drat foolish to let a pirate 'refuel' one of our warships and blow it sky high
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Jul 27, 2021 07:44
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sniper4625 posted:Officers, thoughts? "Prepare to eat rail-gun and be bordered cowardly pirate scum!"
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Jul 27, 2021 10:20
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Russian Viking is the best plan we got. If they ain't pirates they would surrender to us. Blast any pirate from space
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Jul 27, 2021 20:37
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Tentative plan for assault offered here. Red Squadron is sent on recon - they do a quick flyby of the asteroid to locate defenses - they are to withdraw as soon as there is any threat or they locate fixed defenses. At this point, the Agamemnon frigates take point. Demands are sent for surrender/if psosible covert communicactions established. If they succeed, we alter from there. Ashes and Alexi in turn are to stand back as they're the most modern forces. If possible Ashen is to try and suppress/disable the defenses. The Agamemnon forces go in and soften up the area as well if it is safe. Pericles stays back to act as picket/interceptor, along with Red Squadron on standby. If RS is low on fuel then they dock to be refueled and are to be set to scramble as soon as possible. The Agamemnon forces in turn provide bombardment support for the landing - this gets them engaged and also makes them involved in the fight. At point deenses are suppressed the troop shuttles go in to land presuming it is safe for them to do so and assault begins. Ashes and Alexei are kept at long range so if any attacks come in/further forces they are at a point they can engage depending on circumstances/enemy forces coming. This gives us the opportunity to establish communications/let the enemy surrender, and failing that to go in for the attack. I feel it mnimizes our exposure, has the Agamemnon forces invested in it, and has our assets in space availble to repel any oncoming forces. If the Agamemnon command is unsure of this, we can tell them that it gives us the possibility to gather intel on pirate operations and lets us take one of their bases. This in turn lets us refuel as well which extends our range. Prisoners can be interrogated or in the case of facilities inspected. This also (if there are hostages) gives the local occupants cover as they are fighting back against us and in turn suppressed and we can (if opportunity presents) negotiate from there. This plan also presumes that A) the corvettes will withdraw (they are faster than us and we have limited means of pursuit if any) and that B) Agamemnon command goes along with an assault. It is conservative in nature, presumes the asteroid fixed defenses are not heavy, and there is not a large garrison. It puts our heaviest assets in space to engage an enemy counterattack and has a methodical assault designed to scout the asteroid, suppress the defenses, and then land troops. It will very likely take a long time but it also means that our forces are covered and not split apart at all times, we are in a position to intercept reinforcements ,and if the unexpected happens we are in a place to withdraw in good order or engage in a combat line with most of our forces. It also keeps the merchants/landing craft escorted or within the protective bubble at all times. This is a proposed assault operation presuming Goon Command decides that it is necessary to go on the offensive and seize the asteroid base and that communications do not engage a more promising alternative. It gives the chance to establish communications simultaneously while deploying us for the attack. Hopefully the threat of an assault and landing force may also engage our enenemy to negotiate. It however takes a long time, lets the enemy have a total idea of what our forces/deployments are, and what we have committed and gives the m time to formaulte a plan/counter-attack and leaves us with no surprises. It is simplistic in nature, conservative, and does not fully commit. Tentatively this operation if needed/authorized is to be called Plan Hammer
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Jul 27, 2021 21:56
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Hard disagree on all of that. Just keep everything together and approach the asteroid. Our actives are on, so there's basically no chance of being ambushed and no need for a rear guard or anything. If the corvettes run, either we can catch them or we can't (or rather, the fighters almost certainly can, but 4 fighters vs 2 corvettes is a very risky fight).
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Jul 27, 2021 23:38
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