(Thread IKs:
Captain Foo)
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bros...
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Jul 25, 2021 23:00
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Wiggly Wayne DDS posted:the past year+ of updates have been reworks in preparation of poe 2, claiming this round is where the vision begins is ignoring everything they've said for the past year the last year of updates have included heist, ultimatum, and ritual; i couldn't think of three combats more counter to the new stated vision. also the massive power creep of cluster jewels, harvest crafting, and archmage. pork never goes bad posted:I do not agree with this off the top of my head, do you think it was because of vision that reservation for spellslinger was increased while also demanding that you pay the mana cost for the skills you're triggering? that hypothermia had its cold dot damage re-added before the patch? chris wilson said it was never intended to be that as if some other developer left it in that state for three years. that the incredibly powerful aura support builds didn't see a single significant change? what they're talking about doing is a fundamental shift in the way the game is played. what they did was leave the game exactly as-is and reduce player power and speed. i don't know how that's anything other than half-rear end. i guess if they never change any league mechanic, monster behavior and stats, or items then i can accept this as a completed vision.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:02
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i understand the concept of nerfing things and slowing down the game to open up "design space". they just didn't have time to design anything into that space this league so the whole game is slower and more difficult with no upside there's nothing inherently fun about needing multiple main skill casts to clear white packs. you can still ignore 99% of the monsters in every map, you just need to wait around longer while their health ticks down. the league mechanic's difficulty is trivialized by a doorway, for example. i hope they can find some time in their 13 week development cycle to put something fun into all this space they've opened up between levels 68 and 88
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Jul 25, 2021 23:02
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frajaq posted:bros... Man trade is going to be trubofucked huh. Also lol at blight massacred by wow classic. Poor bastard
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Jul 25, 2021 23:04
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i mean it's clear to me that the major nerf to player power as we know it needed to come alongside poe2 features that compensated for it. it really would have made more sense to make the poe2 launch the weird experimental period where everything changes all at once than to hobble the last few leagues of poe1 with the nerfs but not the features
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Jul 25, 2021 23:07
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InventorOfTrees posted:I'm being super agro because I literally don't understand what the gently caress someone just said? lol no, just your general posting I just quoted that one to signify I was talking to you
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Jul 25, 2021 23:09
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pork never goes bad posted:yes, they made it harder to get ailment immunity. like they said they would. something that you apparently didn't take seriously, and didn't plan for. guess I should add a logout flask for ailment removal.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:10
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nearly killed em! posted:the last year of updates have included heist, ultimatum, and ritual; i couldn't think of three combats more counter to the new stated vision. also the massive power creep of cluster jewels, harvest crafting, and archmage. fwiw, i was responding to this: whether you like the patch or not i think we can all agree that it wasn't well thought through or tested. i do think it was well thought through. i think that the balance manifesto, chris' reddit response, and the asmongold interview make that clear. and while you've certainly grabbed some of the things that went wrong, this was the smoothest launch in a long time. this is tested far better than the average poe league. so, yes, i think it was thought through, i think it was tested. for spellslinger, for example, i think that in a future patch you'll see some of those changes reverted. but spellslinger was in a very high position in the meta and ggg frequently over-nerf things to prod people to try different playstyles or builds. if you've been playing long, the spellslinger nerfs are absolutely in line with how ggg have been managing the meta since practically day 1. that they haven't got fully to where they want to be in one patch, and that they messed up some things because of miscommunications or comparatively minor bugs, makes no difference to the fact that these changes are a step in the direction the company has been intimating was coming ever since the first poe2 preview, and the direction chris has been talking about steering things the entire lifetime of the game. the vision isn't fully realized, sure, but this patch is a step in that direction that was clearly telegraphed by the company in a lot of ways.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:10
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the nerfs would have been fine if they were done over the course of multiple leagues (damage -> mana -> flasks -> acts) rather than all at once, and if their messaging on it was better. they seemed to basically be laughing in the face of the fact that they knew people were going to be upset. also, all these things combined means people that didn't even bother reading the notes jump into act1 and immediately get turbo hosed, dont have enough mana to do the same build they've done for the last 5 leagues, dont understand whats going on, and just bounce off entirely. Fried Watermelon posted:no, just your general posting eh I was trying to be nice until I saw people literally posting "lolumad??" back and forth for a page, then I stopped giving a gently caress
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Jul 25, 2021 23:11
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FZeroRacer posted:ssfhc is an incredibly poor metric to pick from lol because almost everyone at the top of the ladder is going to have a logout macro ready to go the moment they see danger and they're going to focus on absolute defense over everything else to prevent being one shot. so you're saying you have options to build around the problems your character has, have chosen not to use them, and therefore "ailment immunity is far out of reach" and "what's not available for a lot of builds is any way to actually deal with freeze/bleed". great take, really love it.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:14
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the direction they're taking poe2 looks like they want the moment to moment gameplay experience to be like aggressive laning in a moba and it turns out that it sucks rear end and nobody wants to play that game
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Jul 25, 2021 23:17
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lol at all the people (including me) who picked trapper with the promise of a still good build that is cheap to get off the ground and now all the trapper items cost out the rear end Architect's Hand (not the upgraded version) is 320c and climbing fast atm, it peaked at 22c on day 2 in Ultimatum for comparison I don't think the league bleeding players will be helped by this when the 20% of the playerbase according to PoENinja that play trapper start gearing for maps and realize they are hosed
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Jul 25, 2021 23:20
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you can literally complete all of the content in the game with ice trap using a tabula and malachai's artifice
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Jul 25, 2021 23:21
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pork never goes bad posted:so you're saying you have options to build around the problems your character has, have chosen not to use them, and therefore "ailment immunity is far out of reach" and "what's not available for a lot of builds is any way to actually deal with freeze/bleed". great take, really love it. but keep being weirdly aggressive.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:22
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genuine suggestion you probably want kaom's roots on a berserker anyway, since you have so much free attack speed that it's not really a big deal if your base walk speed is low
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Jul 25, 2021 23:24
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InventorOfTrees posted:you can literally complete all of the content in the game with ice trap using a tabula and malachai's artifice I dunno about you but the gearing process and the feeling of improving your character incrementally is a pretty big part of PoE for me and I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that is true for others as well Also let's be real here, a trapper with a tabula is not gonna have nearly enough survivability that the average player will have a shot at clearing tough content no matter what kind of damage output there is, unless they can freezelock it literally 100% of the time. Which to be fair you can with a lot of bosses now, but not all of them!
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Jul 25, 2021 23:24
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12 rats tied together posted:genuine suggestion you probably want kaom's roots on a berserker anyway, since you have so much free attack speed that it's not really a big deal if your base walk speed is low
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Jul 25, 2021 23:28
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Insurrectionist posted:I dunno about you but the gearing process and the feeling of improving your character incrementally is a pretty big part of PoE for me and I don't think I'm going out on a limb saying that is true for others as well so... go incrementally improve your character? The item you described is the best in slot endgame item for most trapper builds, is build enabling, and results in a pretty big power spike. It should cost money and take time to get. Insurrectionist posted:unless they can freezelock it literally 100% of the time boy do I have something to tell you about ice trap
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Jul 25, 2021 23:31
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oh- kaom's roots are like 10c for a good pair on trade. did not realize you were playing SSF, sorry, but at least you can target farm them once you get a good pool of waste pool/toxic sewer maps. im thinking about using them even on my totem character just because they're so good. unwavering stance and cannot be slowed is a crazy affix combination
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Jul 25, 2021 23:32
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FZeroRacer posted:i mean surprise, every ascendency has different opportunity costs for dealing with different ailments. i didn't realize saying that 'berserker has no innate way to deal with ailments and removing ailment immunity from flasks heavily impacts them' was such a hot take but I guess it is nowadays. i could just equip wanderlust (lol) but then I lose a significant chunk of armor and life, further hurting survivability. not to mention the nerf to granite flask means molten shell is far less juiced which is far less average ehp. if you'd just been saying that the ascendancy doesn't have ailment immunity and the flask nerf hurts i wouldn't be posting. you're making heaps of unhelpfully hyperbolic statements about it and trying to walk it back. here's some of the things you've said that are pretty spicy takes, and that are getting my hackles up. FZeroRacer posted:all of the balance changes and reduced defenses have completely hosed early mapping especially in SSF. You simply cannot build enough defenses and flasks are almost worthless for defenses in most cases. Like great you can mitigate a single freeze, but then you don't have enough charges for the next pack and you get frozen upgraded brine king fixes this. or devote two flask slots, especially with that fancy new orb to automate them. or gear to solve for it with unveiled/crafted mods, or influence mods, or mutewind mods, or uniques, or jewel implicits. FZeroRacer posted:would love for you to explain to me where else you can get freeze/bleed immunity outside of the short, lovely bits you get on flasks. see above. FZeroRacer posted:the tree nodes and sibyl's literally do not do enough to stop reflect damage from straight up killing you. you can have 80% reduced reflected damage taken and most builds will still blow themselves up the first time they attack a pack because of how reflect works and how much damage you do. the tree nodes and sibyls (and the gear affixes) stack. FZeroRacer posted:and that said it's amazing that people are still missing the point, which is that ailment immunity for a lot of builds is still far out of reach. that's why flasks existed. I've always ran and played SSF with no problem because I design my builds in mind with what's available, and what's not available for a lot of builds is any way to actually deal with freeze/bleed. I and other posters have suggested multiple ways to get freeze immunity, or functional freeze immunity, even in an ssf envrironment both before and after this wild post of yours. do you see why i'm pushing back at your takes?
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Jul 25, 2021 23:33
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InventorOfTrees posted:so... go incrementally improve your character? The item you described is the best in slot endgame item for most trapper builds, is build enabling, and results in a pretty big power spike. It should cost money and take time to get. I'm not gonna quit at the moment, but you're kidding yourself if you think loads of players won't when they see the prices. And if they stay this high then I'm definitely gonna quit because of them once I stop getting regular gearing. The normal PoE grind is already just about pushing it for me, inflate prices for my build by 1000% and I'm definitely not gonna stick it out because it won't be fun. I mean I don't even specifically want those that bad, but it's the same for all other trapper items basically. E: And again, this isn't the build enabling endgame item, this is the unupgraded and wholly unimpressive albeit useful version we're talking about. And no, Ice Trap can't do that because of immunity phases, at which point you need to actually Dodge Good Like Good Player or have gear that isn't Tabula. Insurrectionist fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jul 25, 2021 |
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Jul 25, 2021 23:34
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The process of gaining power is suddenly far more challenging and interesting than it was. Mechanics that we found ways to ignore are relevant again. Things that we expected to clear without resistance are no longer guaranteed. I understand some people just want to zoom zoom and see everything disappear without having to think about anything but map layout and drops, but I hope more people actually give this new power level a chance because imo it loving rules.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:36
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fwiw i dont think FZeroRacer is wrong because, while options do exist to mitigate some of their concerns, those options require you to progress through the game without them first. if SSF requires you to start with one of a handful of 0 requirements builds so you can farm gear for the character you want to play, that sucks and its worse than before, and i don't think it's a very dishonest thing to say i dont understand playing SSF in general though unless you are a streamer and you get paid for it, or if you have a ton of free time and no other games to play
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Jul 25, 2021 23:37
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Insurrectionist posted:I'm not gonna quit at the moment, but you're kidding yourself if you think loads of players won't when they see the prices. And if they stay this high then I'm definitely gonna quit because of them once I stop getting regular gearing. The normal PoE grind is already just about pushing it for me, inflate prices for my build by 1000% and I'm definitely not gonna stick it out because it won't be fun. I mean I don't even specifically want those that bad, but it's the same for all other trapper items basically. Every league has meta builds with hugely inflated unique prices. The market will settle down, don't worry.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:39
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Insurrectionist posted:E: And again, this isn't the build enabling endgame item, this is the unupgraded and wholly unimpressive albeit useful version we're talking about. e: nevermind i forgot about the vial things Insurrectionist posted:And no, Ice Trap can't do that because of immunity phases, at which point you need to actually Dodge Good Like Good Player or have gear that isn't Tabula. lol, yes, if you want to complete the hardest content in the game with garbage level 1 gear you do indeed have to actually play well, that is true InventorOfTrees fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Jul 25, 2021 |
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Jul 25, 2021 23:41
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George posted:The process of gaining power is suddenly far more challenging and interesting than it was. Mechanics that we found ways to ignore are relevant again. Things that we expected to clear without resistance are no longer guaranteed. This, a hundred times this.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:42
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12 rats tied together posted:fwiw i dont think FZeroRacer is wrong because, while options do exist to mitigate some of their concerns, those options require you to progress through the game without them first. if SSF requires you to start with one of a handful of 0 requirements builds so you can farm gear for the character you want to play, that sucks and its worse than before, and i don't think it's a very dishonest thing to say In a loot-based RPG having all of your loot be almost invalidated because you could just buy better loot with the currency you find feels bad for me. There's almost no reason to fight certain bosses or go down certain league paths outside of just finding more things to liquify into currency to fuel trading for better gear.
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Jul 25, 2021 23:42
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InventorOfTrees posted:
You were the one to suggest beating the game with garbage gear though when I suggested that maybe the average player would be discouraged by gearing costs for trappers, what exactly is your argument here? Yes if every player was really good and didn't mind playing with bad gear because they kill all the bosses by outplaying them then truly, expensive gear doesn't matter. Good thing this definitely describes 99% of PoE's playerbase. You seem to be arguing just to be contrary rather than having any kind of concrete point.' E: Also definitely free upgrade currently at 4 ex lol
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Jul 25, 2021 23:46
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frajaq posted:bros... Is that steam ?
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Jul 25, 2021 23:46
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the problem with that is that, as a loot based rpg, its simply a bad game. poe at its core is an exalted orb noise slot machine
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Jul 25, 2021 23:46
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12 rats tied together posted:the problem with that is that, as a loot based rpg, its simply a bad game. poe at its core is an exalted orb noise slot machine  though if you're familiar with how Rog works he's a miracle for SSF because he can craft you some amazing high level gear in early maps
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Jul 25, 2021 23:48
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12 rats tied together posted:the problem with that is that, as a loot based rpg, its simply a bad game. poe at its core is an exalted orb noise slot machine Yes and It's also an interesting opportunity cost driven music visualizer!
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Jul 25, 2021 23:48
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Rog got me a couple cool items I sold for 10c and a Corrupted Blood jewel I sold for almost an ex so he's a good lad
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Jul 25, 2021 23:49
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Insurrectionist posted:You were the one to suggest beating the game with garbage gear though when I suggested that maybe the average player would be discouraged by gearing costs for trappers, what exactly is your argument here? Yes if every player was really good and didn't mind playing with bad gear because they kill all the bosses by outplaying them then truly, expensive gear doesn't matter. Good thing this definitely describes 99% of PoE's playerbase. You seem to be arguing just to be contrary rather than having any kind of concrete point.' The 'average player' does not need Any Unique Items to Fully Complete All Of The Game with Ice Trap. There is a reason it was one of the #1 recommended SSF starter builds. If you want to quit the game over not being able to get your BIS item immediately at league launch, go hog wild buddy. But don't try and pretend that everyone else is going to suddenly follow suite, especially after you try to lecture me on 'gradual gear progression.'
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Jul 25, 2021 23:52
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InventorOfTrees posted:The 'average player' does not need Any Unique Items to Fully Complete All Of The Game with Ice Trap. There is a reason it was one of the #1 recommended SSF starter builds. If you want to quit the game over not being able to get your BIS item immediately at league launch, go hog wild buddy. But don't try and pretend that everyone else is going to suddenly follow suite, especially after you try to lecture me on 'gradual gear progression.' They absolutely will lol I dunno what kind of playerbase you imagine PoE has
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Jul 25, 2021 23:58
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Insurrectionist posted:They absolutely will lol I dunno what kind of playerbase you imagine PoE has the kind that doesn't even know that item exists or what it does I'm more than happy to fix your build for you if you need help killing Maven without it. Then you can get a more gradual progression towards the item you want 
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Jul 26, 2021 00:02
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InventorOfTrees posted:the kind that doesn't even know that item exists or what it does How could they not know it exists when it's in all the PoBs they copied from their favorite streamers/youtubers? My gear is going fine for the moment. Endgame progression is a different issue, I dunno how long it takes to get to Maven but from my previous experience with the Atlas I know I'll burn out long, long before I would get to Sirus 8 no matter what gear I have. Still have no idea what they were thinking with this Conqueror and watchstone business, the Shaper/Elder Atlas was already tedious enough. But I'll have fun killing him on lower difficulties until then.
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Jul 26, 2021 00:06
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What can I say, there are a fucktrillion slow ARPGs out there with PoE being the one in the niche of going fast, but guess being different is not part of the vision.
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Jul 26, 2021 00:06
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qnqnx posted:What can I say, there are a fucktrillion slow ARPGs out there with PoE being the one in the niche of going fast, but guess being different is not part of the vision. PoE is still going to be by far the fastest. Their current goal is just to let monsters get off literally one attack before you kill them - I don't think that is unreasonable tbh.
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Jul 26, 2021 00:09
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| # ? Jun 3, 2024 01:47 |
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it's just annoying when people are like ah yes a tabula and one other unique is enough to do all the endgame bosses. you're right, it is possible. it is not at all possible for people like me who aren't as good lol. my builds and game knowledge get better every league! I'm slowly getting there. But I'm not there and it's annoying when people are just like 'you don't try hard enough', you know?
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Jul 26, 2021 00:09
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