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I thought the correct way to play Baldur's Gate / BG2 was to quicksave every ten feet for the entire game and keep going that way until you wipe on a fight a couple of times, then sigh, reload once again to the save right before the fight, and slam the button on all the spells and scrolls you've hoarding and never using throughout the entire game.
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Jul 26, 2021 00:43
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KingKalamari posted:Alright, I've got some time now, so let's get to that effort-post I promised on the Stealth=Phase mechanics of the Alien RPG. edit: Imagined posted:I thought the correct way to play Baldur's Gate / BG2 was to quicksave every ten feet for the entire game and keep going that way until you wipe on a fight a couple of times, then sigh, reload once again to the save right before the fight, and slam the button on all the spells and scrolls you've hoarding and never using throughout the entire game. Drakyn fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jul 26, 2021 |
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Jul 26, 2021 00:50
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Yawgmoth posted:Some people get all their pleasure from figuring out how to avoid actually playing the game. Honestly with BG1 especially it felt like you kind of had to cheese a lot of it until at least level 3, I found the game was either insanely hard or cartoonishly easy based on level, with the occasional "whoops, I stepped on a spider trap and the spiders killed us in 1 second" nonsense in the cloakwood.
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Jul 26, 2021 06:08
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Yawgmoth posted:It was definitely a different time, but there's a reason we got away from that kind of thing. The "time of judgment" runs for each line were especially hilarious for this, because they assumed that the PCs were both important enough to have around at Giant Event X but too weak to actually step up and do anything to influence said event. Vampire in particular has a couple that are quite literally "the PCs stand off to the side and provide color commentary; any attempt to alter the way events progress should result in immediate death." nWoD does have metaplot - it just has a tiny, vestigial metaplot limited to the scale of "the Nemean got deposed from being Boston's Hierarch, as he is is explicitly set up to be in Boston's book", "Hurricane Katrina destroyed the Vampire society described in the New Orleans book, which came out before it happened", "Grandfather Crow achieved the New Dawn so wont be in any more books" and... I'm actually blanking on any more concrete examples. That's how little of it there is.
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Jul 26, 2021 09:15
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Dave Brookshaw posted:nWoD does have metaplot - it just has a tiny, vestigial metaplot limited to the scale of "the Nemean got deposed from being Boston's Hierarch, as he is is explicitly set up to be in Boston's book", "Hurricane Katrina destroyed the Vampire society described in the New Orleans book, which came out before it happened", "Grandfather Crow achieved the New Dawn so wont be in any more books" and... I'm actually blanking on any more concrete examples. That's how little of it there is. nWoD's entire thing was "toolbox vs setting" wasn't it? Everyone I know who played VtmB in the 90's said they never listened to any metaplot and didn't even give the tiniest gently caress anyway. That attitude seems common amongst anyone who isn't a 40k fan. Hell, in Battletech it's a meme.
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Jul 26, 2021 12:30
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Dave Brookshaw posted:nWoD does have metaplot - it just has a tiny, vestigial metaplot limited to the scale of "the Nemean got deposed from being Boston's Hierarch, as he is is explicitly set up to be in Boston's book", "Hurricane Katrina destroyed the Vampire society described in the New Orleans book, which came out before it happened", "Grandfather Crow achieved the New Dawn so wont be in any more books" and... I'm actually blanking on any more concrete examples. That's how little of it there is. The Strix returning in number to haunt vampires after disappearing with the fall of Rome is probably another example. But yeah, nWoD metaplot was all small scale stuff designed to not interfere with your table if you didn’t want it. Nothing on the level of “someone sets off a nuke in the spirit world (again), completely wiping out X thing that’s been part of the game since the start.” Gatto Grigio fucked around with this message at 14:21 on Jul 26, 2021 |
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Jul 26, 2021 14:18
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I was extremely confused by how White Wolf "snuck in" a new edition of V:tR and the WoD system with what were ostensibly campaign books. I'm not saying it's shady, I just could not understand it and fell out of reading new WoD stuff for quite a while. Harn had an anti-metaplot where all published background material concerns events leading up to a given "start date." Godlike and Progenitor devote a huge part of the book to a "default" timeline, with the idea that all bets are off after whatever point you insert the PCs.
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Jul 26, 2021 14:59
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Halloween Jack posted:Godlike and Progenitor devote a huge part of the book to a "default" timeline, with the idea that all bets are off after whatever point you insert the PCs. I mean, that's good adventure design, right? "Villains and other NPCs have agency. They're going to get up to [this poo poo] if left to their own devices."
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Jul 26, 2021 15:08
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Halloween Jack posted:I was extremely confused by how White Wolf "snuck in" a new edition of V:tR and the WoD system with what were ostensibly campaign books. I'm not saying it's shady, I just could not understand it and fell out of reading new WoD stuff for quite a while. It was certainly a novel idea, but it wasn't really a big shift. I remember that I played the new version fine without having read the book : I just got a brief explanation of what beats and conditions were and I was good to go. But maybe I'm too forgiving cause I like the changes.
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Jul 26, 2021 15:14
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Covok posted:Yo! For some reason I always reach for Fate Accelerated when thinking about stories that paint their characters in big, broad strokes and have them doing a variety of things. You can look into Crimeworld from the Worlds in Shadow supplement to get some setup hooks, though when it gives you numbers keep in mind Fate Accelerated is 1 lower.
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Jul 26, 2021 15:26
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Yawgmoth posted:In RPGs I think oWoD is the biggest offender. They loved having Huge Important Events™ happen involving NPCs with stat blocks that would give high level 3.5e D&D monsters a run for their word count, and if you wanted to use anything except the newest Thaumaturgy powers out of the new book you were stuck forcing these events to happen in your game by characters that your players either don't know/care about, or have possibly killed. Coolness Averted posted:Yeah, but it was a different era for RPGs. I don't recall ever seeing people call out metaplot and PCs playing second fiddle to the writers and their inserts until much later, hell and just looking at backlash from when new editions of popular games threw away or shook up stuff shows at least last decade there were was at least a vocal minority that really liked that style. Now that I think about it, Nightlife actually blew up their setting and made it a radioactive post-apocalypse! But they were clear that it was an "alternate timeline" and they published another book or two after that.
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Jul 26, 2021 15:31
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Halloween Jack posted:I was extremely confused by how White Wolf "snuck in" a new edition of V:tR and the WoD system with what were ostensibly campaign books. I'm not saying it's shady, I just could not understand it and fell out of reading new WoD stuff for quite a while. It was just because OPP couldn't get permission from WW for real new editions, but then they did get permission while they were finishing up the first couple of books for their totally-not-new-editions. And then also the IP owner change and branding change. So that's why Requiem 2e has a WoD sigil and mentions WoD, instead of CoD.
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Jul 26, 2021 15:36
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I think there's a (fuzzy) difference between metaplot and setting info. This:Halloween Jack posted:Godlike and Progenitor devote a huge part of the book to a "default" timeline, with the idea that all bets are off after whatever point you insert the PCs.
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Jul 26, 2021 15:43
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TheDiceMustRoll posted:nWoD's entire thing was "toolbox vs setting" wasn't it? It's supposed to be much more customisable than oWoD, certainly, but none of the games are strictly, 100% "here's some splats and mechanics, make up your own setting" which is what the entire nWoD gets portrayed as by White Wolf (Paradox Version) and fans of the oWoD unfamiliar with it. Some of the nWoD games have just as or more detailed settings than the oWoD ones - Mage, Mummy, Werewolf, Changeling - some of them are much closer to the toolbox ideal - Hunter, Deviant - and most are in the middle. Requiem has a perfectly good setting that a lot of people prefer to Masquerades. It just also has a *lot* of page count devoted to alternate settings, ways to modify it, etc. Halloween Jack posted:I was extremely confused by how White Wolf "snuck in" a new edition of V:tR and the WoD system with what were ostensibly campaign books. I'm not saying it's shady, I just could not understand it and fell out of reading new WoD stuff for quite a while. The last remnants of actual White Wolf within CCP after Onyx Path's staff quit to start Onyx Path wouldn't let OPP make a second edition of the nWoD, but *would* let them (us, as I was a freelancer on the project) update the rules and settings of the games as a series of "Chronicles". The corebook "mortal" one, Demon, and the Vampire one came out, and the Werewolf and Mage ones were written, before CCP sold the White Wolf name and ip to Paradox Interactive. NuWhite Wolf decided to rename nWoD to Chronicles of Darkness, but they also allowed Onyx Path to rebrand the update projects as actual Second Editions. The three that were already published by then got treated differently - Demon remains today as it was then, the last nWoD game to require the nWoD corebook. The God-Machine Chronicle (the corebook update) got removed from sale and a new corebook with its rules updates included got written shockingly quickly to coincide with the name change of the gameline. Requiem 2e is the same book as the Blood & Smoke: The Strix Chronicle, but has a new cover. Werewolf and Mage were still document files at the time so were easy to change - my hard drive still has the folders for "Mystery Play: The Fallen World Chronicle" on it! Some of the games were in various degrees of progress (Promethean, Beast, Changeling) but the final batch of games (Geist, Hunter, Deviant, Mummy) were never "update chronicles" at any step except maybe raw pitches. The aftereffect of the weird two-year stumbling start to the second edition is mostly in the way the core rules in the games don't quite always agree on fine details or omit different things, and that four of the games (Demon, Vampire, Werewolf, Mage) were written before the corebook subsystems for chases, investigations, and easy-build monsters. If they'd be done in order, Mage's Mage Sight rules would probably be based on Investigations, and I imagine Werewolf would have used Chases for something.
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Jul 26, 2021 15:50
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I remember being excited about Over the Edge second edition but haven't heard anything since. Is it any good?
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Jul 26, 2021 18:55
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Glazius posted:For some reason I always reach for Fate Accelerated when thinking about stories that paint their characters in big, broad strokes and have them doing a variety of things. You can look into Crimeworld from the Worlds in Shadow supplement to get some setup hooks, though when it gives you numbers keep in mind Fate Accelerated is 1 lower. I can definitely take a look at that, especially since I own it. Makes it easier than other suggestions so far. I also got this one: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/m/product/194021 It's from Sanguine and looks promising. Leverage, which I happened to own, also looked really good.
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Jul 26, 2021 19:17
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I haven't looked at it in ages, but I seem to remember most of the interesting weirdness of Al Amarja being less weird and less interesting this time around.
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Jul 26, 2021 19:17
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I remember being excited about Over the Edge second edition but haven't heard anything since. Is it any good? I bought the hardcopy and was mildly interested, but then I realized how fiddly the core mechanic was and started thinking of running it with literally any other system and then lost interest.
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Jul 26, 2021 23:14
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I remember being excited about Over the Edge second edition but haven't heard anything since. Is it any good? A lot of the overall interest dropped off when its creator, Jonathan Tweet, made a bunch of tweets about how “unfair” it was that the leftists and mainstream media wouldn’t give “race science” a fair shake.
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Jul 27, 2021 00:20
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Here's a brain buster: what makes a comedy ttrpg a "comedy ttrpg?"
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Jul 27, 2021 04:48
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Covok posted:Here's a brain buster: what makes a comedy ttrpg a "comedy ttrpg?" Something where the goal is to create fun through comedy, and the game design (not necessarily the rules) facilitates that. I split the game design from the rules because some of the best advice in my comedy game of choice, PARANOIA XP, specifically tells you to toss the rules out and do something else when it's funny (and that works out quite well in play.) I would divide a parody RPG from a comedy RPG because a comedy RPG works to be funny at the table - a parody RPG works to be funny to read, but is often complete trash to actually play. A d20 game with "plot armour" that gives you +10,000 to all stats is just gonna be poo poo; PARANOIA XP has plot armour in the standard armour table but explicitly tells you as a GM what to use it for to make it interesting in play.
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Jul 27, 2021 05:40
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What do you consider a comedy TTRPG? I can think of “light” games like GSS or Maid, but the only game I can think of that’s explicitly comedy rather than parody is Toon. Maybe TFOS? Maybe Paranoia for black comedy in the “good” releases? I think Robin’s Laws noted that most players inject comedy into regular play anyway, and trying to force it further just produces forced jokes, so the general traits are few rules, low risk and often a sandboxy environment. hyphz fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jul 27, 2021 |
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Jul 27, 2021 06:42
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Covok posted:Here's a brain buster: what makes a comedy ttrpg a "comedy ttrpg?" When it does me a laugh and not because it sucks. I will admit I don't think about this one super hard 
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Jul 27, 2021 06:52
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Good comedy RPGs: Paranoia (2E, XP), Teenagers From Outer Space, Creeks & Crawdads Maybe-good comedy RPGs: Tales From The Floating Vagabond (never played, the material I read for it didn't particularly leave me giggling), HoL (never played, extremely funny read, not sure how well it translates to being played) Bad comedy RPGs: Ghostbusters (misses the point of the movie spectacularly), Paranoia 5E (just the unfunniest poo poo), Macho Women With Guns (pretty thin gruel, premise has aged badly) Storygames that can become comedy RPGs with the right playset and mindset: Fiasco, Skullduggery, Pantheon Extremely funny when played completely straight: Hackmaster 4E (the comedy comes from the fact that you are playing a ridiculously complicated rules-complete AD&D 1E heartbreaker RAW and taking everything in it seriously, as opposed to yukking it up around the table). GURPS has some supplements with strong comedy elements (IOU, Discworld, Goblins, Callahan's Crosstime Saloon) while not actually being comedy RPGs.
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Jul 27, 2021 07:30
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Gatto Grigio posted:A lot of the overall interest dropped off when its creator, Jonathan Tweet, made a bunch of tweets about how “unfair” it was that the leftists and mainstream media wouldn’t give “race science” a fair shake. Hah, RIP. Guess I'll look deeper into Unknown Armies.
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Jul 27, 2021 07:53
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potatocubed posted:Let me tell you the good word about Gubat Banwa, the extremely Filipino game of tactical combat and downtime drama. It has about 300 classes and one of them is an archer who rides a flying swordfish. Another is a gun wizard. Another is a sipa player, who puts their angry ball game skills to use in fights. It's amazing. so I thought the publisher's name seemed familiar, and it turns out I've seen at least one of their other games before, the Mecha RPG Maharlika, there's also an odd fantasy horror game Karanduun that seems kinda interesting but I'll admit also comes uncomfortably close to outright Blasphemy for my liking(which is pretty much the first time I've ever had that conundrum as I've never really had any real conflicts between my religious leanings and my hobbies before)
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Jul 27, 2021 08:14
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Electric Bastionland is a good comedy RPG centered around the idea of being forced to go treasure hunting because of an outrageous debt except you are not a treasure hunter, you're just a person who has a failed career in something. You roll some dice to determine which job you used to have (or just pick), you roll to see how much hp you start with and how much money you start with (how much hp and how much money also answers 2 additional career-specific questions that give you access to some kind of boon), the entire group is indebted to 1 company determined by whichever player is the youngest, and when a player dies they just roll up a new character and add on some more debt and join the old group. Just a few example characters rolled up right now using the game's rules and suggested names: Name: Lyndeer Failed Career: Counterfeit Taxidermist Fantastic specimens bought you a small amount of money Now that’s gone, and your name is ruined Starting Items: Scissors, bag of stuffing, book of made-up beasts Money: £6 HP: 3 Strength: 15 Dexterity: 14 Charisma: 7 quote:WHAT TYPE OF ANIMAL DO YOU KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT? Name: Flinch Failed Career: Street Judge Bastion has so many courts, the whole city is effectively legal ground With questionable credentials, you dealt with street quarrels Starting Items: Martial-Gavel (d6), Book of Laws (incomplete) Money: £3 HP: 6 Strength: 6 Dexterity: 11 Charisma: 11 quote:WHY DO YOU NO LONGER PRACTISE? Name: Brunder Failed Career: Science Mystic The past was nothing but lies There is hidden truth in these modern ways Starting Items: Ceramic staff (d6, bulky, non-reactive to chemicals), glue, solvent Money: £1 HP: 1 Strength: 13 Dexterity: 8 Charisma: 14 quote:WHERE IS THE TRUTH HIDDEN? Name: Urmer Failed Career: Agricultural Saboteur You carried out dirty jobs for malicious farmers Now you see Bastion is even more ruthless Starting Items: Pitchfork (d6, bulky) Money: £1 HP: 2 Strength: 17 Dexterity: 14 Charisma: 8 quote:WHO WAS YOUR LAST EMPLOYER? Name: Pearl Failed Career: Rural Tax Collector You’ve spent more time than you care on the roads of Deep Country Squinting at obsolete currencies was your life Starting Items: Taxman’s pistol (d6, extremely loud) Money: £4 HP: 1 Strength: 10 Dexterity: 13 Charisma: 13 quote:WHAT DID THE TAX OFFICE PROVIDE YOU WITH? It's lightweight and lighthearted enough and the focus on treasure hunting (and competing with a rival treasure hunting group that the GM is running as a way to keep the players going) means it's great foundation for a comedy game night. IMO.
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Jul 27, 2021 08:26
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A good comedy RPG provides you with a premise that is inherently absurd, then lets you play it dead serious, because for these characters this is just their life. Dimension 20's Brennan Lee Mulligan discussed it a few times in interviews. For example: quote:In the beginnings of Dimension 20, we saw that there were two ways to tackle doing D&D comedically. One way is to kind of like do it tongue in cheek or glibly and kind of like make fun of D&D while you’re playing it, which I think ends up getting really stale really fast. Megazver fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jul 27, 2021 |
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Jul 27, 2021 11:07
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When I design comedy games I try to design them such that playing the normal way leads to absurd scenarios which are nevertheless 'just the characters' lives now'. When you picture the scene in your head you should picture something basically funny. It helps the sitcom feel if the player characters are all dysfunctional as well, and that can be reinforced with rules design too.
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Jul 27, 2021 13:22
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As for some comedy games: Cats of Catthulhu - you're cats fighting elder gods! Goblin Quest - you're cute and utterly incompetent goblins! You will probably all die! GURPS Goblins - it's Dickensian London, but everyone's a grotesque mutant goblin so it's even worse somehow. Honey Heist - you're bears trying to pull off a heist for honey. Low Life - it's post-post-post-post-post-post-post apocalypse and the sentient life on Oith is stuff like Cremefillians who evolved from Twinkies, Oofos who descend from intergalactic visitors unfortunate enough to remain and Horcs who are just, like, snotgoblins. Pugmire - humans are gone from Earth and they left behind uplifted dogs and cats and other animals, not to mention all the detritus of their civilizations and the owners of Earth have IDEAS about their creators.
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Jul 27, 2021 13:41
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Ettin posted:When it does me a laugh and not because it sucks. I will admit I don't think about this one super hard Then that means... Hard-Wired Island is a comedy RPG! Hoisted on your own petard, Ettin!
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Jul 27, 2021 14:17
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FMguru posted:Macho Women With Guns (pretty thin gruel, premise has aged badly) Edit: I suppose Fallout 2 was the apex of this kind of humour. Halloween Jack fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jul 27, 2021 |
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Jul 27, 2021 14:31
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On the opposite end of the spectrum, what are the least comedic pen & paper rpgs? I don't mean they try and fail at being funny or that they're just not presented in a funny way, I mean the stuff where humor and comedy don't factor into it at all and that the entire feeling and tone of the game wouldn't fit well for jokes. The first one that comes to mind that fits is Never Going Home, a game about World War 1 but with magic. Basically people discovered horrible truths for surviving and getting ahead in the Great War and everything is terrible and awful. Some pics from it to give you the general feel and aesthetic:         The first one to actually spring to mind was Promethean: The Created, but that one doesn't fit since despite the setting and general feeling, it's very humorous.
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Jul 27, 2021 15:53
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There's Steal Away Jordan and plenty of games, mostly indie narrative games, about pretty heavy topics.
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Jul 27, 2021 15:57
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Dawgstar posted:Then that means... Hard-Wired Island is a comedy RPG! Hoisted on your own petard, Ettin! You take that back, Ettin's never been funny in his entire life!
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Jul 27, 2021 16:04
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I remember being excited about Over the Edge second edition but haven't heard anything since. Is it any good? Gatto Grigio posted:A lot of the overall interest dropped off when its creator, Jonathan Tweet, made a bunch of tweets about how “unfair” it was that the leftists and mainstream media wouldn’t give “race science” a fair shake.
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Jul 27, 2021 16:06
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FirstAidKite posted:On the opposite end of the spectrum, what are the least comedic pen & paper rpgs? I don't mean they try and fail at being funny or that they're just not presented in a funny way, I mean the stuff where humor and comedy don't factor into it at all and that the entire feeling and tone of the game wouldn't fit well for jokes. I got that game on sale but never even read it. How is it?
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Jul 27, 2021 16:11
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MonsieurChoc posted:I got that game on sale but never even read it.
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Jul 27, 2021 16:21
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FirstAidKite posted:On the opposite end of the spectrum, what are the least comedic pen & paper rpgs? I don't mean they try and fail at being funny or that they're just not presented in a funny way, I mean the stuff where humor and comedy don't factor into it at all and that the entire feeling and tone of the game wouldn't fit well for jokes. Red Markets. I wonder if this is a bit paradoxical too, though. People in stressful situations do make jokes; it's one of the most basic ways of dealing with it. But in an RPG, this is much harder to deal with because the mood at the table can change completely when you don't also know that actually you are going over the top in a few days.
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Jul 27, 2021 16:21
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MonsieurChoc posted:I got that game on sale but never even read it. Hi, I may be the only person on SA who's GMed it. Its official content is railroaded as gently caress and it's designed for a depressing cycle of loss that the system can't really live up to. It has a few neat mechanics to salvage, but one adventure is all I ever want to have done with it. As was already linked, my F&F goes into more detail on it. (Though I never did talk about the adventure I ran...) I would second the motion for Red Markets as least comedic RPG on the market, though the art tries to inject some jokes that fall flat.
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Jul 27, 2021 16:53
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