|
you'd think someone would be chasing and marketing on efficiency rather than raw performance. much, much better for mobile, don't heat up your space/bankrupt you with electricity fees, much greener. like you say, if the m1 can do it it must be technically feasible, right?
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 15:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:19 |
|
|
shrike82 posted:I used to assume that increasing TDP just indicated that chipmakers were running out of options beyond brute-forcing performance improvements. Ampere's perf/watt is actually up vs turing, and it looks like they're pushing the cards well out the efficiency sweet spot in favor of raw performance. How much of that is down to smaller process though, who knows. While apple's m1 design is very impressive, the skus they have out are a) mobile focused so they probably prioritized efficiency when they were setting up frequency behavior and b) they're on tsmc 5nm, which is a node up on basically everyone else right now. A big part of generational efficiency gains are probably down to process shrinks, which are getting increasingly difficult to implement.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 16:06
|
|
|
an apple (portable) console would be awesome but for whatever reason, management there doesn't seem to give a poo poo about gaming on a side note, i'm pretty skeptical about the steam deck - i think many people are going to be disappointed with its 720p30+ performance when they get their hands on it shrike82 fucked around with this message at 16:08 on Jul 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 16:06
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:an apple (portable) console would be awesome but for whatever reason, management there doesn't seem to give a poo poo about gaming I plan on playing FF XI on it, so I think I will be perfectly happy with the performance. lol
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 17:32
|
|
|
Graphics is embarrassingly parallel, you always should be able to buy more performance with more power - they've done this before with SLi/Crossfire. The only limitation is currently structural - due to new programming paradigms that wanted to have a look at all of the data, it became difficult to extract data-level parallelism. Both companies are trying to lift that by designing multi-die GPUs (so they can access the same pool of memory, rather than several totally separate pools). Once they succeed, they will once again be able to burn the power budget of quad SLi, or whatever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 17:34
|
|
|
lDDQD posted:embarrassingly parallel, hell, same for my next GPU i kind of want to get the x90 part and downclock it for some sort of leviathan *80++ part that probably runs cooler than it should i know some peeps are doing that with the 3090 and 3080 and that sounds neat
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:00
|
|
|
Is it just me, or are there a lot of older games with incredibly lovely performance even with a GPU generations later than the game? I tried darksiders2 since epic gave it away recently and at the time it came out i had a pretty lovely GPU. The performance feels like hot garbage on my 6700 xt. I have no idea how bad it is because I absolutely 100% can't get any overlay software to work at all on the 6700. I had MSI Afterburner and AMD overlay working on my 580 but I've gone as far as doing a feature refresh on windows and mutiple DDU and cannot get anything to work.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:10
|
|
|
Statutory Ape posted:hell, same I'm running my 3080 with an undervolt that has me drawing about 250w down from 330w with probably like a 10% performance hit. It's almost a must in sff.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:12
|
|
|
Harik posted:Is it just me, or are there a lot of older games with incredibly lovely performance even with a GPU generations later than the game? could be that the game is from before the age of good multi-threading and is just hard bottlenecking on a single core?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
there are tons of games that just run bad, because they did a lovely job at optimization or because their scale is bonkers. i'm playing arkham knight on a 3070 and while it mostly makes it's max of 90 it has dropped to like 30 in parts.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:21
|
|
|
Harik posted:Is it just me, or are there a lot of older games with incredibly lovely performance even with a GPU generations later than the game? That's definitely a thing I've noticed. I don't know the specifics as to why but I'd bet it is a mix of the games never being designed to be capable of the sort of frame rates that people expect now and the games using old deprecated APIs that modern card manufacturers don't bother to optimize for beyond "it works well enough not to crash".
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:28
|
|
|
CoolCab posted:there are tons of games that just run bad, because they did a lovely job at optimization or because their scale is bonkers. i'm playing arkham knight on a 3070 and while it mostly makes it's max of 90 it has dropped to like 30 in parts. Arkham Knight was notoriously bad, to the point that it was pulled from Steam for awhile. A shame because you could get 200+fps at 1080p on the previous game with a 1070. IIRC playing on an SSD actually makes the performance much worse because of how the game loads assets. There was a fan fix for awhile but the devs updated the game with their own much worse fix so it no longer worked.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:29
|
|
|
Driver support also matters
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:32
|
|
|
repiv posted:could be that the game is from before the age of good multi-threading and is just hard bottlenecking on a single core? i'd hope a zen+ at 4ghz would have enough horsepower for a game from 9 years ago. e: I got MSI afterburner overlay to show up!!!!! On loop hero lol. Literally nothing else works and I don't know why. Fullscreen, windowed, windowed fullscreen. Nothing throws any errors, it just doesn't work. i have absolutely no idea what's going on here. Harik fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Jul 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:36
|
|
|
Harik posted:Is it just me, or are there a lot of older games with incredibly lovely performance even with a GPU generations later than the game? There are a number of games where "Ultra" more or less means "We threw in the most detailed versions of our game assets that our storage targets allowed for" which might be entirely unoptimized and cause a significant performance hit for little to no visual difference. If you mean older games with lovely performance on settings people are actually intended to use to play the game, you'll have to be more specific about the game and the performance issues yoyu're experiencing because I don't think that's a common problem.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 18:53
|
|
|
CoolCab posted:i kind of feel like trending towards more power is a very poor long term strategy. while the current sensationalist nonsense about california regulations impacting PCs is almost entirely press misunderstanding if we continue to push GPUs into being more or less small electric space heaters it will eventually start attracting negative PR or eventually possibly regulatory response. particularly with mining already attracting a lot of bad vibes already. Well also people with 1000W PSU are a very small minority. People flack Intel for not improving CPU power for five years, but until they started phoning it in with Kaby Lake they were making improvements in power efficiency, which was what mattered most with the vast majority of 1990s desktop owners using a laptop for their email and Excel.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 19:15
|
|
|
I can't imagine that GPU manufacturers for desktop users can brute force extra performance for very long. Even if end users do not care about the increased power and heat issues - the more you make PC, console, and mobile component behave differently from one another, the more difficult it becomes to ensure cross-compatibility. Since developers need to optimize for console chips, all that extra brute force power will in many cases not be utilized efficiently, or only to compensate for the lack of PC-optimalization. I'm probably oversimplifying this but it doesn't feel right.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 19:17
|
|
|
Anyone remembers Delta Force 2? Even after like 6 generations it ran like poo poo. I installed it in two year intervalls on my machines and it was always disappointing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 19:18
|
|
|
Harik posted:i'd hope a zen+ at 4ghz would have enough horsepower for a game from 9 years ago. is it the little yellow FPS counter that was better (more accurate and responsive) than the nvidia overlay one? is it the same one they use in linus tech tips? did it just randomly loving disappear and you can't find a way to turn it back on? because if so and you solve it let me know, the only thing i've found that works, sometimes, is a flatten and reinstall :/
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
wolrah posted:There are a number of games where "Ultra" more or less means "We threw in the most detailed versions of our game assets that our storage targets allowed for" which might be entirely unoptimized and cause a significant performance hit for little to no visual difference. Batman arkham city (2012) is a good example of the issue i'm dealing with and it has a built-in benchmark. preset medium vs extreme (minus physx) has essentially no difference: repeated benchmarks show 89-94 FPS average, 40-50fps minimum for both. Only thing that really breaks it is turning on physx (because gently caress you, nvidia. seriously, gently caress you) So i need to sort out those lows because they really impact the experience.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 20:09
|
|
|
shrike82 posted:an apple (portable) console would be awesome but for whatever reason, management there doesn't seem to give a poo poo about gaming I'd say this is a misconception - Apple has shown a lot of interest in gaming in the past few years They're just clueless about it AutismVaccine posted:Anyone remembers Delta Force 2? Even after like 6 generations it ran like poo poo. I installed it in two year intervalls on my machines and it was always disappointing. Wasn't it the game that ran with VOXELS ?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 20:39
|
|
|
Comfy Fleece Sweater posted:Wasn't it the game that ran with VOXELS ? Yeah, the entire Delta Force series (and I think everything from Novalogic?) used voxels which gave them features way ahead of their time, like destructible terrain. DF2 and Landwarrior were soooo good and a huge part of what got me into PC gaming. I wish they worked still.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
Harik posted:i'd hope a zen+ at 4ghz would have enough horsepower for a game from 9 years ago. Amd rdna cards can have this issue with older games, the gpu just does not get fully utilized (no it's not cpu bottleneck) They haven't been able to fix it since launch, so long that no one bothers bringing it up anymore  The only workaround is to toy with power states and clamp min allowed clocks to something reasonable yourself.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 21:10
|
|
|
Harik posted:Batman arkham city (2012) is a good example of the issue i'm dealing with and it has a built-in benchmark. preset medium vs extreme (minus physx) has essentially no difference: repeated benchmarks show 89-94 FPS average, 40-50fps minimum for both. Only thing that really breaks it is turning on physx (because gently caress you, nvidia. seriously, gently caress you) As already noted by someone else the Arkham series suffered from some of the worst of the "consoleitis" era where games were built primarily for consoles and their PC ports didn't get a lot of effort put in to them. Arkham City wasn't the worst by far but it does have known quirks when running over 60 FPS. The easiest answer with some of these is to just accept it and let them run locked to whatever framerate they're happiest at.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 21:51
|
|
|
Apple loves gaming which is why they're going to court to continue making money from it They're just putting out a couple fewer games a decade than, say, valve
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 21:53
|
|
|
i mean more people will play games on Apple products today than all of the consoles combined and god knows how much profit they are raking by taking a share of all of the in app purchases. mobile gaming is over half of all gaming revenues. do they care about triple-A gaming or gaming on MacOS? not really. and of course the purpose of Apple Arcade is really just to upsell people on the apple service bundles. but gotta keep it all in perspective.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 22:19
|
|
|
The LTT video about the 6600XT is really just a summary of the current pricing and shortage situation and is actually pretty interesting and well informed (written by Anthony, so maybe no surprise there): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peYYl2vrIt4
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 23:34
|
|
|
So with the steam deck coming out, is that going to make gpu chips even more scarce?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 23:44
|
|
|
I think if AMDs benchmarks are to be believed the 6600 looks like a pretty good card.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 23:48
|
|
|
Zil posted:So with the steam deck coming out, is that going to make gpu chips even more scarce? It shouldn’t because it uses a single chip for cpu / GPU
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2021 23:49
|
|
|
Hardware Unboxed also mentioned something in one of their recent QA videos that I hadn't been considering: For as long as there are $300 to $500 consoles, that will put pressure on GPU manufacturers to not let MSRPs get too out of hand. If MSRP inflation gets to the point where it's impossible for $600/$700 budget PCs to play AAA games anymore, a lot of those gamers are just going to give up and stick to consoles. PC hardware companies obviously don't want that, though it's up in the air as to whether they'll actually manage to avoid that scenario in the long term. The Steam Deck could similarly put downward pressure on GPU prices. The presence of a $400 entry point into PC gaming on the market will be difficult for hardware companies to ignore.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 00:05
|
|
|
MarcusSA posted:It shouldn’t because it uses a single chip for cpu / GPU Is it fabbed on tsmc7? If so in theory each wafer they allocate towards making the custom apu could have been allocated to rdna2 gpus instead. In practice, probably just a drop in the bucket though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 00:05
|
|
|
VorpalFish posted:In practice, probably just a drop in the bucket though. I mean, Gabe is saying they're planning on shipping millions of units.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 00:06
|
|
|
We'll see. Sales for it might be front-loaded given the obvious appeal of a handheld that can play your Steam library but I think there'll be a drop in hype level once people get it and actually notice stuff like a handheld that's twice the weight of a switch or the APU that is targeting 720P30. DigitalFoundry had a nuanced take where they were excited for it but kept on coming back to the APU being a 15W part.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 00:25
|
|
|
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/samsung-foundry-to-hike-wafer-production-pricesquote:Samsung Hikes Chip Production Prices: GPUs, SoCs Set to Get More Expensive 
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 04:36
|
|
|
Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Hardware Unboxed also mentioned something in one of their recent QA videos that I hadn't been considering: For as long as there are $300 to $500 consoles, that will put pressure on GPU manufacturers to not let MSRPs get too out of hand. If MSRP inflation gets to the point where it's impossible for $600/$700 budget PCs to play AAA games anymore, a lot of those gamers are just going to give up and stick to consoles. PC hardware companies obviously don't want that, though it's up in the air as to whether they'll actually manage to avoid that scenario in the long term. I have for sure decided to stick to my Switch and whatever runs acceptably on my 970 at 1440/60 if and until the GPU market becomes reasonable again. I also paid for a month of GeForce Live to play Control and that felt like a reasonable stopgap
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 04:51
|
|
|
Icept posted:The way to solve a lot of problems at once is to write legislation that you are only allowed to buy a GPU with peak wattage equal to what you sustain for five minutes on an exercise bike. I'm good for ~300w there so I can keep this 1080ti thanks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 06:34
|
|
|
Danhenge posted:I have for sure decided to stick to my Switch and whatever runs acceptably on my 970 at 1440/60 if and until the GPU market becomes reasonable again. I have more interest in BotW2 than shiny gfx pushers combined on PC anyway so Also I wondering the crazy GPU prices had any dampening effect on demand for the non-GPU PC components
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 09:24
|
|
|
Palladium posted:I have more interest in BotW2 than shiny gfx pushers combined on PC anyway so No, since the GPU prices are demand-driven to begin with, meaning demand for all PC components is high across the board on top of various shortages, tariffs, etc. Monitors, hard drives, memory, and power supplies are all at least a little more expensive than usual, with new high-end monitors being especially hard to come by. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 09:34 on Jul 31, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 09:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 19:19 |
|
|
Seamonster posted:I'm good for ~300w there so I can keep this 1080ti thanks. Not gonna lie, will probably have to return the 3080 but the 1080 should be OK.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2021 09:46
|
|