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My thought is that Disney is in the wrong and should cut her a chunk of the Disney+ purchase price (not the subs because they can technically argue the subscription wasn't for the movie.) But I also think the movie would have done bad either way since it was both released in a pandemic and released after the lead character was already dead. The real villain is Ike Perlmutter who prevented a Black Widow movie from coming out earlier. And he is probably being a smug rear end in a top hat saying "I told you so."
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Jul 31, 2021 05:26
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Bleck posted:Really telling that the situation is "huge trillions profit company screwed a woman out of millions of dollars" and people are really up in here saying "lol look at these simps siding with ScarJo." I dunno it's about as embarrassing as the people that think Comrade ScarJo is going to pave the way for the big general strike that's coming any day now and not just another rich White Feminist taking hers. Again, it's totally fine, but don't pretend like it means poo poo to anyone who's actually working class.
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Jul 31, 2021 06:47
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Alternatively, you -- and yes, I'm saying you specifically, forums poster Doctor Nutt  -- keep trying to roleplay the beleaguered pragmatist in order to make people...what, feel guilty?...about rooting for an actress to be rightly compensated in a clear-cut labor dispute. It's a strange hill to defend in the first place, much less try to die on, but hey shame is a wasted emotion so you do you.
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Jul 31, 2021 07:34
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What good is living during the apocalypse if we can't place bets on which bajillionaire is gonna gently caress over the other one? 2 cheese vouchers on ScarJo.
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Jul 31, 2021 07:41
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Mage_Boy posted:My thought is that Disney is in the wrong and should cut her a chunk of the Disney+ purchase price (not the subs because they can technically argue the subscription wasn't for the movie.) But I also think the movie would have done bad either way since it was both released in a pandemic and released after the lead character was already dead. The real villain is Ike Perlmutter who prevented a Black Widow movie from coming out earlier. And he is probably being a smug rear end in a top hat saying "I told you so." That's not relevant, though. There'd be no case if Disney had released the film solely in cinemas, it flopped, Disney took a bath on it, and creatives with percentages of box office got little to nothing. No problem there, that's part of the gamble on negotiating a contract based on percentages. What happened instead is Disney did a hybrid release, the film took an unknown amount of money, Disney took that money, and creatives with percentages of box office got little to nothing. That's why there a lawsuit, not because the percentages were low but because the percentages did not in fact reflect a percentage of money taken by Disney.
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Jul 31, 2021 09:09
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You don't even have to root for her to see that it was an obviously clear and express breach of contract which Disney brazenly committed because they have more power in the legal relationship, lol. It's likely going to come to closed settlements esp since Emma stone is also getting in on the action E: https://twitter.com/imranshah___/status/1420952407660392453?s=19 The Saddest Rhino fucked around with this message at 10:27 on Jul 31, 2021 |
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Jul 31, 2021 10:19
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BrianWilly posted:Alternatively, you -- and yes, I'm saying you specifically, forums poster Doctor Nutt No that's not what I'm doing, I'm just explaining that my thoughts are complex and that it's okay that other people have complex thoughts about it too. But go ahead and continue to feel called out if that's what you want, but I'm not trying to convince anyone else they have to see it my way, just trying to better explain it, and I probably came off as aggro because my blood sugars have been all over the place (seriously not joking). Sorry if I came off like a dickwad.
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Jul 31, 2021 11:10
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.....Oh... ..hmm, this is awkward. I don't have anything in my playbook for if people actually apologize about things.  Uhh. hail Hydra ? (honestly, I get it, but I personally also don't understand why people have been making this seem more complicated than it actually is. There really isn't any Secret Nuance here; the situation is pretty straightforward and exactly what it looks like)
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Jul 31, 2021 11:25
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It kinda feels clear cut to me that the £20 premium access charges should be treated as box office. Any extra Disney gain through new subscribers and people trying the service to get Black Widow is a bonus, but there's a set, multi theatre ticket cost everyone who watched it at home instead of at a cinema paid. She should get the same percentage of that as she did box-office.
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Jul 31, 2021 12:04
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Masonity posted:It kinda feels clear cut to me that the £20 premium access charges should be treated as box office. Any extra Disney gain through new subscribers and people trying the service to get Black Widow is a bonus, but there's a set, multi theatre ticket cost everyone who watched it at home instead of at a cinema paid. She should get the same percentage of that as she did box-office. "Should" has little bearing in contract law, from my layman's understanding. It comes down to what is written and agreed-upon, and the rest is up to interpretation and argument, with lots of tedious presentation for a case before a ruling of some kind gets determined. Traditionally this is why a megacorp can screw over workers in a contract dispute, because all they really have to do is draw out the legal proceedings to the point where it's unaffordable for the worker. That's why ScarJo and Emma Stone coming in has relative teeth, because they've already been (presumably) well-paid stars for over a decade and can throw down the gauntlet a lot longer and more publicly to the point where it does hurt Brand Integrity-- one of the Disney corporation's most infamous raw nerves. People are right that this is most likely going to get settled as a closed-door deal and what we saw this week is just very well-timed theater by a savvy actress who knows the game and her position on the board. I just hope Feige and Marvel Studios come out relatively unscathed. Going solely on the merits of public information it does look pretty cut and dry that the Mouse needs to pony up some cash.
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Jul 31, 2021 14:31
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Doctor Nutt posted:I dunno it's about as embarrassing as the people that think Comrade ScarJo is going to pave the way for the big general strike that's coming any day now and not just another rich White Feminist taking hers. Again, it's totally fine, but don't pretend like it means poo poo to anyone who's actually working class. On one hand, I can see the point that this is likely to end in a settlement and be forgotten within a few months. If you're arguing that, I don't disagree. On the other hand, I absolutely do believe that working class people idealize celebrities and take social cues from them on what to believe and how to behave. And in that sense, it's great for a celebrity, i.e. someone with not just money, but meaningful social influence, to call out their boss for exploiting them and to normalize doing that. Underprivileged labor doesn't have the power to individually stand against their employer the way Johansson does. But most people don't even want to. People still think loving unions are evil. Encouraging people to think of bosses as someone who exploits you, rather than someone who helps you out by giving you the privilege of working for them, is a positive, to me. I'm not arguing that Johansson is doing this because she has some great noble leftist intention, but that's irrelevant.
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Jul 31, 2021 18:41
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Doctor Nutt posted:I dunno it's about as embarrassing as the people that think Comrade ScarJo is going to pave the way for the big general strike that's coming any day now and not just another rich White Feminist taking hers. Again, it's totally fine, but don't pretend like it means poo poo to anyone who's actually working class. Who is doing this? Can you point to a single person saying this poo poo?
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Jul 31, 2021 18:44
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Basically, https://twitter.com/directedbyrian/status/1420812570525642758
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Jul 31, 2021 20:03
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socialsecurity posted:Who is doing this? Can you point to a single person saying this poo poo?
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Jul 31, 2021 20:13
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Agree that whilst yes, this is a millionaire just suing to get even more millions it's still a poke in the eye to a major cooperation that monopolizes too much and any sort of action that results in a company being taken to task for not honouring a contract is ultimately good even for us little people for a heap of reasons. Also as an aside, a cheap little plug but my friend's niece made these kind of neat Miss Minutes pro lgbtq stickers that she sells on etsy, if anyone's interested in that sort of thing  . Ships from UK (free to UK) but can ship further just delivery fee and all. There's other marvel stuff there but I think these are pretty nice. Link : https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/1039973100/miss-minutes-tva-pride-flag-sticker?ref=shop_home_active_2&pro=1&frs=1&variation0=2151181851 Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jul 31, 2021 |
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Jul 31, 2021 20:36
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socialsecurity posted:Who is doing this? Can you point to a single person saying this poo poo? It's not any more ridiculous than the straw man people were leveling at me, tbh. But yeah I agree it would be good for the lawsuit to be successful, but reality probably is the case that they'll settle out of court, she'll get her payday, and nothing more will come of it. I do get the concept of people taking social cues but it's going to be a lot loving harder for someone without her specific resources to ever do anything like that because they simply can't make that choice without literally starving or losing shelter, so I think the actual impact of her doing this may currently be overstated. That's probably as close as I can get to agreement and I'm fine with it so I'll concede the point and move on. Hopefully this makes it clear that my stance isn't "nothing matters ever lol."
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Jul 31, 2021 22:10
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I'm down with this.
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Jul 31, 2021 22:16
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1 I get that its inevitable that any obsessive fandom will get overly chummy with the people at the center of their obsessions and come up with nicknames or whatever but "scarjo" is terrible and I hate it. 2. It's incredibly cool to sue Disney for literally any reason with or without merit. Just go wild folks! If you are suing Disney you have my full support. It's incredibly dangerous for all of the world's most popular mass entertainment to be consolidated into one corporation and if you want to sue Disney you should definitely sue Disney. I'm still looking forward to seeing how they wangle their way out of Mickey Mouse entering the public domain in 2 years time (my guess is they'll argue only the Steamboat Willie incarnation gets to be in the public domain).
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Jul 31, 2021 22:47
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The Grumbles posted:I'm still looking forward to seeing how they wangle their way out of Mickey Mouse entering the public domain in 2 years time (my guess is they'll argue only the Steamboat Willie incarnation gets to be in the public domain). This is what I’ve seen from the various legal scholars I’ve seen weigh in.
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Jul 31, 2021 23:11
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Or they'll just get copyright extended again like every other time
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Jul 31, 2021 23:18
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Azhais posted:Or they'll just get copyright extended again like every other time Not saying it couldn't still happen, but the genie's sort of out of the bottle on this tactic. Things have already started entering the public domain again because Disney never got around to leaning on legislators amidst the general chaos of Trump's term, and I'm not sure how you square the circle of extending copyright again without ending up with either "oops, these things that were in the public domain suddenly aren't anymore" or just dropping all pretense and having it be an incredibly blatant "Disney's copyright works like this, everyone else's copyright works like this."
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Jul 31, 2021 23:59
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The "lol it's back in copyright again pay us" thing happened every other time too, not like that's a new wrinkle
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Aug 1, 2021 00:01
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Klungar posted:This is what I’ve seen from the various legal scholars I’ve seen weigh in.
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Aug 1, 2021 00:05
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LividLiquid posted:Even if they lose the copyright to some older cartoons, they have the characters trademarked and there's no end date on that ever, so anybody saying they're going to lose Mickey Mouse doesn't understand what's really happening here, I'm pretty sure. Trademark is really, really specific. For example, the silhouette of Mickey Mouse's head is a trademark, but not all silhouettes of Mickey Mouse are trademarked. Not only that, but Trademarks only restrict the use of certain images and logos under which business can be conducted. They don't control the depiction of those images. IANAL, but Trademark wouldn't prevent the production of a Steamboat Willy mouse in two years, it would only prevent the use of things like Walt Disney's stylized trademarked signature for marketing purposes, as well as other trademarked Disney logos.
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Aug 1, 2021 00:12
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Wouldn't any hypothetical extension have to pass the house and senate, where it would likely be instantly gridlocked into oblivion? At the very least I have a hard time imagining it passing through on all dem votes alone. Might also be worth considering what effect the pandemic had on Disney's bottom line. I'm sure Disney+ probably mitigated most of the damage, but IIRC the parks turned into giant money black holes while they were shut down; lobbying costs money, and it probably costs a lot to grease the wheels for something as blatant as that. MechanicalTomPetty fucked around with this message at 01:26 on Aug 1, 2021 |
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Aug 1, 2021 01:16
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scarjo and Disney should both give me $100
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Aug 1, 2021 01:40
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Scarjo Chrishem Bencum
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Aug 1, 2021 02:00
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Doctor Nutt posted:I dunno it's about as embarrassing as the people that think Comrade ScarJo is going to pave the way for the big general strike that's coming any day now and not just another rich White Feminist taking hers. Again, it's totally fine, but don't pretend like it means poo poo to anyone who's actually working class. Any particular reason why you're throwing "feminist" in here as part of the insult? I'm a white feminist, and I'm no longer poor, so I'm really looking forward to hearing about what we might be doing wrong. Could probably present it to the next global group-think council to help manage our expectations in the fight against inequality, maybe just before the panel on No True Scotswoman and after Why We Should Just Ask Nicely.
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Aug 1, 2021 02:32
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ClydeFrog posted:Any particular reason why you're throwing "feminist" in here as part of the insult? It's a specific dig on exclusionary white feminism that does nothing for women of color, and I should have been more clear. Sorry it hit you so hard but it's a pretty well known and discussed problem. TERFs share a very similar space, if that helps make it more clear.
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Aug 1, 2021 02:34
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Is it August 11th yet?
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Aug 1, 2021 02:46
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Doctor Nutt posted:It's a specific dig on exclusionary white feminism that does nothing for women of color, and I should have been more clear. Sorry it hit you so hard but it's a pretty well known and discussed problem. Yeah I'm very familiar with how people use feminist as a label to divide and point fingers and it would be really great if it didn't happen. A lot of angry men use this in arguments with me aka "why do you care about your salary so much, what about genital mutilations ...." Like we can't care about more than one thing at a time and aren't just human beings capable of a range of both good and poo poo behaviour. Just like men in fact. When a useful and strong label like feminist gets co-opted suddenly we're distracted and doing the "no I'm one of the good ones" dance. Obviously no idea if you are male or female. TERFS can get hosed for all time tho. I apologise for the derail. This clearly isn't the time for me to get out my bumper book of intersectionality and lived experience. She's certainly occasionally a lovely human. We don't (I checked with the other 4 of us in our pamphlet writing gang) want her either. ClydeFrog fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Aug 1, 2021 |
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Aug 1, 2021 09:56
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Disney needs to start shoveling more of their hidden Nazi gold into making more shows, stat. This thread gets too weird in the lull between shows.
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Aug 1, 2021 17:49
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Frankenstyle posted:Disney needs to start shoveling more of their hidden Nazi gold into making more shows, stat. This thread gets too weird in the lull between shows. Nothing will ever top WandaVision speculation in this thread.
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Aug 1, 2021 18:17
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Spacebump posted:Nothing will ever top WandaVision speculation in this thread. It was really fun tbh
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Aug 1, 2021 18:24
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Only 10 days until What If, at least!
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Aug 1, 2021 19:00
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Can't wait for the Mephisto ep!
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Aug 1, 2021 19:21
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Infinitum posted:Can't wait for the Mephisto ep! Not gonna lie, having a What if? where the big reveal is a catchy little tune called "It was Mephisto all along" would be hilarious.
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Aug 1, 2021 20:33
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seaborgium posted:Not gonna lie, having a What if? where the big reveal is a catchy little tune called "It was Mephisto all along" would be hilarious. And then Mephisto does a counter-reveal by singing "It was Humanity all along." "Seriously, at worst I present temptation. You lot are the cunts that kill each other to indulge in it."
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Aug 1, 2021 21:39
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XboxPants posted:On one hand, I can see the point that this is likely to end in a settlement and be forgotten within a few months. If you're arguing that, I don't disagree. I think the mega-fuckery of all of this, is how like, We can all see that for ScarJo, whether you like her or not, as a matter of principle, she 'should' try and reclaim the money she was promised. She was clearly wronged and it's a kind of categorical imperative that she calls out the wrongdoer. It's in everyone's best interest. That concept, I think, is quite grokkable. That in a vacuum, I agree with her principle. But the mega-fuckery part, is that Disney are sort of doing the same thing. In as much as, they are beholden to their shareholders to make profits, they have an "ethical" obligation to pump those numbers. So when someone sees that there's an opportunity to chisel a bunch of money, and that it's possible within their rights to do so, they equally, MUST do so, as a matter of principle. Obviously, you weigh up 'good faith' that you might lose as a result of doing it, as a kind of non-tangible asset, and put some arbitrary worth on it, and see if losing it would be worth more or less. As mentioned, it's no one single person's call to do this. It's just a bunch of numbers that make sense on paper. It's just the inexorable tide of capitalism. I think really, we all know that. But it's just weird to me, that we can all see the 'I hate her but she is duty bound' for HER, but not for them. I guess because we're not faceless corps ourselves, whereas we are individuals.
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Aug 1, 2021 21:47
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ScarJo seems nice and I hope she gets paid
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