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Neddy Seagoon posted:August's numbers will be interesting considering the Index is getting released in Australia through EB Games. /google up Australia population /sees price will be even pricier than in Europe uhh yeah. I think it will move the needle by a total amount of 0.01% <there are dozens of us.gif meme>
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Aug 2, 2021 14:01
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FutureCop posted:Er, nobody asked for it, but I've been having a blast with Payday 2 VR and just wanted to gush and remind people that it exists, since it is just a free mod you get with Payday 2 released with minimal fanfare and not a separate game. I haven't played it in a bit but as someone who played a ton of Payday 2 I started out haaating it and posted here expressing my hatred. But then I got some friends on board to try with me that I played PD2 with and we all Infamy'd to start from scratch since it had been probably 4-5 years since we played it last and once we learned the intricacies of how everything works in VR we all got very very into it. It's honestly pretty mind blowing that they were able to take that game and port it to VR in such a way that you can mix and match VR and flatscreen players without an issue. I'm really hoping they consider VR for payday 3 whenever that happens but considering this was as far as I know a labor of love many years after the game was out I'm not holding my breath.
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Aug 2, 2021 14:02
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If you want to discuss while you type furiously, here are some tweets: https://twitter.com/CixLiv/status/1421248114598371330 
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Aug 2, 2021 14:07
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The Walrus posted:Heck, the VR wave shooter is fantastic too. Yes, it's a wave shooter but it's a very well done one with fun weapons, interesting levels (mostly) and a good mix of mindless blasting and strategy. i really love the ones where you're on a moving platform, it feels more like a shmup than a wave shooter and i wish someone would take the idea further
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Aug 2, 2021 14:14
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Turin Turambar posted:Finally I think I hit this in that the Beat Saver website spawned over a dialogue box asking me to restore settings and I couldn't get into any of the BMBF bits. You can see the top of the dialogue box and scroll down to get the input buttons to clear out of it and allow moving from the browser tab in BMBF. Great to have customs back.
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Aug 2, 2021 14:18
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I mean conceptually that’s probably not wrong although I think there is always space for higher end titles on PCVR. That’s one devs perspective. I’d be interested to see the numbers for a title like Half Life Alyx or how much Pop1 gets played on quest vs pc. There are definitely a lot of people out there who are the primary audience for PCVR. Think about how much people clamored for virtual desktop and airlink. I think there is room for both and if devs can, they should release on PC and Quest because that’s your biggest moneymaker opportunity, although I get that this isn’t possible for every dev or every game
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Aug 2, 2021 14:20
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Truga posted:i really love the ones where you're on a moving platform, it feels more like a shmup than a wave shooter and i wish someone would take the idea further Agreed 100%. That sky level with the flying dragon is a clear standout.
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Aug 2, 2021 14:32
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I use my quest 2 99% with virtual desktop. Quest got games, but they're not as captivating tbh. And one of my fav games at the moment is risk of rain 2, being able to mod games (I know the best saber mod was just updated) from flatscreen to VR is huge for me
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Aug 2, 2021 14:45
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forest spirit posted:I use my quest 2 99% with virtual desktop. Quest got games, but they're not as captivating tbh. And one of my fav games at the moment is risk of rain 2, being able to mod games (I know the best saber mod was just updated) from flatscreen to VR is huge for me I would be curious to know how many people own Quest 2's that have never connected it to a PC in any way. I know most of us here primarily use em as wireless PCVR HMD's but I have to imagine a large portion of the customers buying these have no interest in PCVR.
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Aug 2, 2021 14:48
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Oh 100%. And if ror2 publisher Gearbox likes cash_register.wav as much as I think they do they would be trying to figure out how to port it over themselves. I was browsing the quest store last night because of the 30% off coupon, but drat. I couldn't even settle on something, and I'm one of those fools that part with money if given a discount that has the tiniest bit of teeth
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Aug 2, 2021 14:57
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Jim Silly-Balls posted:I mean conceptually that’s probably not wrong although I think there is always space for higher end titles on PCVR. Writ-large it's just the same story told by PC's and consoles nearly twenty years ago; You can have a complex PC you have to mess around with to make work, or you can have a device that plays games you want, is cheaper, and "just works". You don't exactly see a lot of PC exclusive titles nowadays do you? PCVR's not going anywhere, but realistically it's just "A" platform existing alongside standalone hardware. Even Sony's going to be hard-pressed to go against the Quest 2 with PSVR2 I think.
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Aug 2, 2021 14:58
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I would sincerely hope that devs at least shove their Quest games onto desktop Oculus, if not port to Steam, but if the only place for VR to grow right now is Quest then no amount of grumbling will change that, and hopefully it'll be a wake-up call that VR needs to be much more affordable for it to really grow. Perhaps when people are invested in cheap VR they'll want to spring for expensive VR, but one clearly has to come before the other.
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Aug 2, 2021 15:00
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explosivo posted:I would be curious to know how many people own Quest 2's that have never connected it to a PC in any way. I know most of us here primarily use em as wireless PCVR HMD's but I have to imagine a large portion of the customers buying these have no interest in PCVR. I personally know 5 other people with Quest 2's now, and of those only 2 own PCs capable of gaming. The other 3 use their headsets a LOT and have no interest in connecting them to a computer. I know anecdote =/ data but I'd wager that easily half if not more of Quests never get used as PCVR headsets.
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Aug 2, 2021 16:22
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Turin Turambar posted:If you want to discuss while you type furiously, here are some tweets: lmao
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Aug 2, 2021 16:29
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My two cents Obviously PC VR isn't dead. It isn't even dying, it's actually growing, but it started tiny (despite the VR tech hype wave in 2015-16) and now it's growing at a slow pace, so slow you would think for a second is stalling, if you only see the short term picture of the last months, instead of years. What it's dead is the dream of PC VR being a sizable market in only 3-5 years. It seems something like 9-12 years was a more realistic timeframe. My guess is that the size of the market has to more than multiply by three (from 3M to say, a round number like 10M) to be worth it make a good, non-lovely port from the normal 2d game for most studios (and more, twice that at least? to do VR exclusives). Also obviously, the platform warring of Quest VS PC VS PSVR is all a bit silly, as right now even for people who only plays in one of these three silos will benefit from the competitors growing, as the market is so small that VR platform A growing could also attract more interest in VR platform B. They will be real competitors when the market is closer to saturation. At least that's the theory, I guess the issue right now is that aspiring VR devs that were thinking on doing a PC VR game, maybe tempted by standalone (AKA Quest) numbers, in both bigger userbase and higher growth, so Quest may siphon resources from PV VR to its platform, creating a feedback loop. PC VR main problem is still the same as it was on 2016. It's the $$$. It's price of headset + price of highend gaming pc. If anything now it's a bit worse, lol, because a new batch of headsets bring higher screen resolutions and the gpu market is fubar. Personally, I wouldn't buy a pc vr headset if I had something less powerful than a rtx 2070. I know with my 1080 I'm having issues running games at 90fps with the latest games. And let's see what actually current gamers have :  So it's something like the top 8% of Steam userbase, including AMD too. Also pc vr is still fairly jank, requiriing special attention to configuration, confusing UIs, etc. The previous tweet seemed interesting because I couldn't imagine AppLab being already profitable. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 16:49 on Aug 2, 2021 |
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Aug 2, 2021 16:30
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I'm enough of a nerd to be here and I got a Quest because it was simple and standalone and I don't have a VR-capable PC and it seemed like too much effort to decide on the best price vs power options to upgrade/replace my PC. I'm very interested in PSVR2 as a potential non-facebook non-gently caress-around-with-PC option but we'll see what happens with it. I'm quite sure the vast majority of Quest users use it purely standalone.
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Aug 2, 2021 16:32
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Zaphod42 posted:I can't say for sure, but I think its his day job. H3VR being one of the most successful VR games its plausible either way. It's sold around 100k copies on steam so after Valve's 30 percent I would guess he's made around a million dollars. Safe to say it's his day job now.
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Aug 2, 2021 16:35
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I will comment again on Yuki. Bullet hell schumps (or however it's spelled out) aren't my thing, but I can recognize it's a good translation of the concept to VR. For example, there are enemies that fire a group of bullets that rotate in spiral in a clockwise pattern, so you can avoid it by turning the hand clockwise too. Or you can use the 3d space to position the ship behind moving cover to block some shots, although said cover has a double edge as it affects your line of sight. The only issues is that there isn't a lot of content here, because of that, I'd say the game is overpriced by 30%, but then again that's usual in the medium.
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Aug 2, 2021 16:43
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Like the table tennis game and the mini golf game, I feel this will be a must have for me https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWHaptTGic4 That said, after trying the demo, they still have to improve a fair bit the movement and UI systems, which can be awkward. But even then I had fun playing some rounds.
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Aug 2, 2021 16:56
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messed with VAM some more and boy is it the same as always, weird, crappy, and a little creepy. (Also wonder if it's even stereo in VR or not lmao) PCVR will live on because people are horny and will pay for 8K VR porn and will subscribe to several VAM patreons lol (it's amazing that there's an entire industry that's spun up around VAM. just like Sims mods / Second Life). Ignore the haters. I actually wonder what sales numbers are like between Standalone, PCVR, Console VR for indies, should make for some interesting case studies.
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Aug 2, 2021 17:35
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Turin Turambar posted:Like the table tennis game and the mini golf game, I feel this will be a must have for me Yeah, I tried it out and it's pretty good. I hope they implement an AI opponent at some point. Also, trying this out made me fire up Sports Bar VR for the first time in awhile and I was actually surprised to see that the pool tracking works okay on a Quest 2. It was pretty bad on the Rift S, it had a lot of trouble figuring out what my back hand was doing, but I guess either the Quest tracking is better or the Oculus software has updated enough to where it can figure it out. But Sports Bar is still an older game and the movement on it shows that, so I'm looking forward to Black Hole.
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Aug 2, 2021 17:37
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https://twitter.com/microtrailers/status/1422229061456310275?s=20 As the subject of dungeon crawlers came up not too long ago. Early Access and I don't see any reviews yet but the trailer looks promising.
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Aug 2, 2021 17:38
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I tried the new Take and Hold map in H3VR last night and the long range encounters are pretty great but I'm poo poo at holding a VR gun steady so I'm useless with a scope. The grappling rope stuff is awesome too and would be very handy in this new map since there's a lot of sheer cliff faces.
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Aug 2, 2021 17:52
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PCVR will remain highly niche until AMD can squeeze ~GTX 1060 performance out of a 15w SoC that Valve can slap inside an inside-out tracked Index 2, but that performance is at least a generation or two away.
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Aug 2, 2021 18:04
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EbolaIvory posted:People sleep on serious sam first and second encounter too. I loving love Serious Sam in VR, I just don't play it too much because it's Serious Sam and it's tough as balls. Surprisingly works really well in VR though despite all the running and strafing you have to do.
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Aug 2, 2021 18:16
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Turin Turambar posted:If you want to discuss while you type furiously, here are some tweets: Yeah I've been arguing with Cix and so has Anton lol. He defines "dead" as "not making more money than flatscreen" sooo  Also he thinks Alyx means PCVR has come and gone but Alyx was always an anomaly. If anything VR hasn't started yet. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Aug 2, 2021 |
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Aug 2, 2021 18:25
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I've been arguing with Cix and so has Anton lol. But, but, my new rhythm game and wave shooter will surely set the PCVR market ablaze like none before it!!
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Aug 2, 2021 18:46
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I've been arguing with Cix and so has Anton lol. Lol. I think this all depends from where he is coming. I think people with economic reasons for PC vr to grow up will be salty, like, if he invested thinking it was going to blow up, and it didn't.
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Aug 2, 2021 18:49
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StarkRavingMad posted:Yeah, I tried it out and it's pretty good. I hope they implement an AI opponent at some point. Also, trying this out made me fire up Sports Bar VR for the first time in awhile and I was actually surprised to see that the pool tracking works okay on a Quest 2. It was pretty bad on the Rift S, it had a lot of trouble figuring out what my back hand was doing, but I guess either the Quest tracking is better or the Oculus software has updated enough to where it can figure it out. But Sports Bar is still an older game and the movement on it shows that, so I'm looking forward to Black Hole. There are ai matches (and online play) with the full version https://www.oculus.com/experiences/quest/5298353070207220?utm_source=applabdb.com
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Aug 2, 2021 19:10
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Turin Turambar posted:There are ai matches (and online play) with the full version Oh awesome! I didn't know the full version was out -- I only stumbled on it while searching for pool games and found the demo. I'll pick it up right away.
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Aug 2, 2021 19:14
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I mean, it's not really a sensible argument either way. Standalone VR is great and the Quest is an extremely good machine that offers a lot of advantages, but the fact is that it's not winning because it's standalone so much as because Zuck is apparently fine with losing cash on it to gain long term control of the market. The machine itself is extremely heavily subsidized, but so are a ton of games on the platform, with Facebook happily dumping stupid amounts of cash into making games they don't seem particularly bothered about losing money on. I think standalone VR is where a large portion of the market is going regardless, but the Quest being propped up by a billion dollar corporation just dumping money into it can't really be ignored when talking about long term survivability in the space.
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Aug 2, 2021 19:15
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PCVR isn't dead, it's doing better than it ever really has I think, but it's microscopically small is allBlade Runner posted:I mean, it's not really a sensible argument either way. Standalone VR is great and the Quest is an extremely good machine that offers a lot of advantages, but the fact is that it's not winning because it's standalone so much as because Zuck is apparently fine with losing cash on it to gain long term control of the market. The machine itself is extremely heavily subsidized, but so are a ton of games on the platform, with Facebook happily dumping stupid amounts of cash into making games they don't seem particularly bothered about losing money on. I totally disagree with this, it's winning because it's standalone. If Facebook had dumped an equivalent amount of resources into PCVR, nothing they did would be this successful.
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Aug 2, 2021 19:19
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Quest also benefits from having a complete, functional ecosystem right in its menus, not just games but videos, social hangouts, the works, and a UI that actually facilitates it. PCVR is splintered all over the loving place, and just launching a demo you find on itchio or wherever requires you to navigate Windows with a touch controller. Installing and running games isn't an issue, but navigation is still nowhere close to ideal.
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Aug 2, 2021 19:36
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Lemming posted:PCVR isn't dead, it's doing better than it ever really has I think, but it's microscopically small is all Sure, but if they sold it for a profit and included the price of the phone in the front rather than brutally undercutting the cost, I don't think they'd be nearly as successful either. I guess my point was it's not successful just because it's standalone. If the HTC Focus had come out instead of the Quest at the exact same time, for example, I don't think it'd be nearly as popular. It's a combination of it being standalone and being cheap enough that it's an impulse buy or Christmas gift for many.
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Aug 2, 2021 19:37
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The Quest 2 also gets to have its cake and eat it too by being an accessible standalone that, with a flip of a switch or one cable, can have a user playing PCVR anyway. It's the cheapest gateway both to standalone VR and also PCVR
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Aug 2, 2021 19:37
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StarkRavingMad posted:Oh awesome! I didn't know the full version was out -- I only stumbled on it while searching for pool games and found the demo. I'll pick it up right away. Then I will warn you of how this is really Early Access, for example the AI option doesn't have any difficulty setting. But it's only $10.
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Aug 2, 2021 19:43
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Blade Runner posted:Sure, but if they sold it for a profit and included the price of the phone in the front rather than brutally undercutting the cost, I don't think they'd be nearly as successful either. I guess my point was it's not successful just because it's standalone. If the HTC Focus had come out instead of the Quest at the exact same time, for example, I don't think it'd be nearly as popular. It's a combination of it being standalone and being cheap enough that it's an impulse buy or Christmas gift for many. From what people in this thread have said who seem to know better, it appears that Facebook is most likely selling the headsets around cost. That said, the investment of R&D will most likely have heavily outweighed any subsidies, but you can also look similarly at games they paid to make for PC that didn't pan out despite significant investments. The Focus is not and never has been a consumer headset, and that's in part because HTC didn't invest in enough R&D to make one. I agree that Facebook was only able to make the Quest 2 as good as it is as a result of heavy investment, but to some degree that's just being more forward thinking than other companies. Look at Google, they *had* a standalone headset before the Quest was even out (Lenovo Mirage Solo on their Daydream platform), they just... gave up.
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Aug 2, 2021 19:46
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Lemming posted:From what people in this thread have said who seem to know better, it appears that Facebook is most likely selling the headsets around cost. That said, the investment of R&D will most likely have heavily outweighed any subsidies, but you can also look similarly at games they paid to make for PC that didn't pan out despite significant investments. I'd say that investing the extreme amount they did into R&D and then selling at cost is a pretty heavy net loss. It's a similar strategy to console pricing as compared to PC, and I feel a lot of the same adages apply relative to cost and simplicity vs. fidelity of experience. The main difference is that Oculus also doesn't seem to expect their actual storefront to turn much of a profit now, because they believe more profit will come when they've achieved market dominance. Though, do you sincerely believe the Quest would really have been nearly as successful if it cost five or even six hundred dollars, which is probably about what most manufacturers would need to sell it for to recoup the research investment if they couldn't easily take that hit?
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Aug 2, 2021 19:54
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I also think all this talk of the VR market is somewhat moot (but entertaining) because I expect PSVR2 to do it really well, so then the market will change a lot once it's released. PS5 is a fairly powerful machine at adjusted price, the PSVR1 was a headset that did lots of things right for a first iteration, they had years to experiment and iterate internally, and look what other devices did these past years, and now the public know about VR more than when the PSVR released.
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Aug 2, 2021 19:57
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Turin Turambar posted:Lol. I think this all depends from where he is coming. I think people with economic reasons for PC vr to grow up will be salty, like, if he invested thinking it was going to blow up, and it didn't. CIX knows what hes talking about. While hes being a bit hyperbole about it, hes kinda right. PCVR is niche as ever. And the quest is making that gap bigger. Hes definately riling people up though. Lmfao I love cix. Dudes one of the reasons I kept doing what I was doing early on. Zaphod42 posted:Yeah I've been arguing with Cix and so has Anton lol. Anton don't strike me as someone who actually grasps customer retention and stuff. He does what he wants with no fucks given.. While its not a bad title, its never going to be in every home and is a clear example of how niche VR really is. Which my point here is the guy makes a decent title thats exactly up the lane that PCVR is with its niche audience. EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Aug 2, 2021 |
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