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Ahh, hell, might as well crosspost it here, no shame no gain I finished my Wonder Woman movie analysis, and maybe half or more of it ended up being general breakdowns about the WW comics all the way back from the 40s up till now. Please check it out if you're interested in this sort of thing!
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Aug 3, 2021 01:01
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doomrider7 posted:Not surprised. I’m pretty sure the silver age revival was a Dan Didio mandate since every writer was forced to do it at the time like Jeph loeb bringing back multicolored kryptonite, krypto and silver age supergirl in Batman/Superman, Morrison being asked to bring back Barry Allen in final crisis, brad meltzers whole justice league run, bringing back batwoman, and the numerous interferences In 52 (I’m pretty sure the whole bringing back the multiverse thing was didio as well cuz that’s how things were back in the sixties)
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Aug 3, 2021 09:08
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Noob Saibot posted:I’m pretty sure the silver age revival was a Dan Didio mandate since every writer was forced to do it at the time like Jeph loeb bringing back multicolored kryptonite, krypto and silver age supergirl in Batman/Superman, Morrison being asked to bring back Barry Allen in final crisis, brad meltzers whole justice league run, bringing back batwoman, and the numerous interferences In 52 (I’m pretty sure the whole bringing back the multiverse thing was didio as well cuz that’s how things were back in the sixties) It definitely started with Johns with GL Rebirth, even though his JSA was pretty decent from what I recall, but GL Rebirth is what made that whole thing start with the creation of the spectrum entities and doing his damndest to not only make Jordan the one true GL, but also alleviate his responsibility killing the entire GL Corps and trying to restart time, by saying a yellow bug influenced him. It just kept going from there with Didio wanting to kill Nightwing and Connor during the abysmal Infinite Crisis, and just having Teen Titans getting amputated, SBP being a whiny fanboy, space goatse, Silver Age Superman tut-tutting other generations on how grim and dark they are only to get murdered by being smashed to death by Kryptonite rocks to the face. Johns and Didio.........................are a land of contradictions. And it's amazing to me where Johns currently sits in the DC/Warner hierarchy.
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Aug 3, 2021 15:21
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Wasn't the Superboy death more that they were in a legal battle regarding the rights, so it was just easier to get rid of Connor?
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Aug 3, 2021 15:51
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Geoff Johns will have a character lose an arm in a second, so I was always wary of him doing important event stuff.
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Aug 3, 2021 17:56
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Geoff Johns will have a character lose an arm in a second, so I was always wary of him doing important event stuff. Poor poor Risk. 
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Aug 3, 2021 17:59
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Jiro posted:Poor poor Risk. He lost both arms
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Aug 3, 2021 18:33
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Mr Hootington posted:He lost both arms That's why I said poor twice!
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Aug 3, 2021 18:51
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Pitwar posted:Wasn't the Superboy death more that they were in a legal battle regarding the rights, so it was just easier to get rid of Connor? That’s the common thought. Also why the cartoon around that time was called Superman and the Legion of Super Heroes.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:09
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This is conflating/oversimplifying a ton of things that happened in 2000-2011. As mentioned the Superboy thing was mostly influenced by an then-ongoing legal battle questioning whether "Superboy" was covered by all of the WFH contracts/rights surrendering Siegel/Shuster did for "Superman".Noob Saibot posted:I’m pretty sure the silver age revival was a Dan Didio mandate since every writer was forced to do it at the time like Jeph loeb bringing back multicolored kryptonite, krypto and silver age supergirl in Batman/Superman, Morrison being asked to bring back Barry Allen in final crisis, brad meltzers whole justice league run, bringing back batwoman, and the numerous interferences In 52 (I’m pretty sure the whole bringing back the multiverse thing was didio as well cuz that’s how things were back in the sixties) Jeph Loeb was on the Superman books and brought back Krypto, multicolor kryptonite, and a lot of other Silver Age trappings starting in 1999 and left the book in 2002. People had been trying in weird roundabout ways to bring back these things from almost the second John Byrne quit the Superman books in 1988, as evidenced by all of the different "we're not breaking Post-Crisis rules!" permutations of Supergirl, Krypto, General Zod, Bizarro, Red Kryptonite, etc that were introduced in the 1990s. Loeb (and Kelly/Casey/Seagle/et. al) just pushed some of those concepts even closer to the Silver Age versions, though Loeb's reintroduction of Full Blown Classic Supergirl in early 2004 was a step farther, though also one made before Didio had any editorial control to push for it. Likewise Geoff Johns is a weird case, his rise to prominence all happened pre-Didio, and Green Lantern: Rebirth was also pitched/announced/developed before Didio ascended to executive editor, though his name/title is in the credits of the first issue. Johns definitely wants/wanted to return the DCU to some sort of "better time before", but it's hard to pin down when, exactly, since he was clearly trying to revamp the JSA into a more modern thing, his Titans was clearly influenced by 1980s Wolfman/Perez comics (and his fan letters to the Superman books in the early 1990s), and whatever previously unseen Flash comics where all of the Rogues are psychotic mass murderers. The original Batwoman is from (chronologically) the extremely early Silver Age (introduced in 1956, effectively written out in 1962-1963) and tonally was from the Whitney Ellsworth era of Batman comics which were very much the "Batman and Robin fight aliens with Abe Lincoln and Billy the Kid... or was it all a dream Alfred wrote down?" era, not the Julius Schwartz executive-editor era that feels more like "Silver Age" comics as people recognize them. I don't think your average "Silver Age Fanboy" gave a poo poo about Batwoman. BatGIRL maybe, and DC eventually returned Barbara Gordon to that role in the New 52, but even then she wasn't the Batgirl who teamed with Batwoman, that was Betty Kane, introduced in 1961 and similarly written out a few years later to make room for Actual Silver Age Batgirl Babs in 1967, a character developed for the television show. The modern Batwoman bears little resemblance to the "Silver Age*" one, and had a weird bumpy ride towards actually being introduced that feels like if anything was hindered by Dan Didio: she was never meant to be part of 52, but Didio did an interview with the New York Times saying they were going to introduce a lesbian Batwoman, and Devin Grayson was developing it as a series. Then they told the 52 people to add her into that book, and told Grayson her book was canceled. They wanted Rucka (who was basically handed the character and asked to insert her into the Montoya plot of 52) to develop a Batwoman series, which took like three years to actually get put on the schedule. Both Grayson and Rucka express clear frustration with the whole thing, even years later. The whole multiverse thing also isn't *really* Silver Age, though it was introduced in 1961 with "Flash of Two Worlds", it was pretty well restricted to an annual JLA "special story" through the 1960s, and didn't turn into a big "Multiverse" with comics printed taking place on Earth-1, Earth-2, Earth-S, etc. until pretty deep into the 1970s. And even then, people were trying to bring it back in roundabout ways almost immediately after Crisis on Infinite Earths, culminating in the "Hypertime" pitch from Grant Morrison and Mark Waid in the 1990s, half of the writing team that brought it back for real in 52, to some apparent pushback from Didio. Didio had a lot of strange, often bad ideas, and there was unquestionably a push (both at Marvel, but especially at DC) in the 2000s to bring all of the toys back into the toybox and push aside some legacy characters. But boiling it all down to a heavy hand from Didio mandating things isn't really accurate at all.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:29
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The man also loved the Metal Men, so he wasn't all bad.
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Aug 3, 2021 20:53
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I don’t consider GL Rebirth to be part of the silver age revival. Hal and the corps got done dirty in a spin-off storyline from death of Superman and DC never heard the end of it from fans. There had been letter writing campaigns and everything. Nobody was clamoring for the return of Barry Allen or whatever
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Aug 3, 2021 21:26
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Edge & Christian posted:The modern Batwoman bears little resemblance to the "Silver Age*" one, and had a weird bumpy ride towards actually being introduced that feels like if anything was hindered by Dan Didio: she was never meant to be part of 52, but Didio did an interview with the New York Times saying they were going to introduce a lesbian Batwoman, and Devin Grayson was developing it as a series. Then they told the 52 people to add her into that book, and told Grayson her book was canceled. They wanted Rucka (who was basically handed the character and asked to insert her into the Montoya plot of 52) to develop a Batwoman series, which took like three years to actually get put on the schedule. Both Grayson and Rucka express clear frustration with the whole thing, even years later. from what I can tell, this is close but not quite right; Kate Kane's introduction was already set for 52 by the time the 2006 NYT article ran. the Devin Grayson book wasn't mentioned in that article and was never officially announced (apparently, that was how Grayson found out about its cancellation, through its omission from the NYT article).
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Aug 3, 2021 21:39
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Barry Convex posted:from what I can tell, this is close but not quite right; Kate Kane's introduction was already set for 52 by the time the 2006 NYT article ran. the Devin Grayson book wasn't mentioned in that article and was never officially announced (apparently, that was how Grayson found out about its cancellation, through its omission from the NYT article). quote:Let's get this straight. Her sexual orientation wasn't revealed in "52." Her sexual orientation was revealed in a "New York Times" article. And the "New York Times" article got all this attention and got picked up all over the place and quotes from the article somehow mysteriously came from Dan DiDio, things that he never said and so on, so by the time she showed up in "52," what happened was every one said, "Oh, the gay one." And this one I half-remembered but had to dig up, from Rucka's ca. 2007 "52 Exit Interview" quote:GR: Sure – Batwoman initially? Never was supposed to be part of 52. Then the Times article came out, and we were told to try to get her in there. And yes, I was erroneously conflating rumors about Devin Grayson doing a Batwoman article existing pre-article, then continuing post-article, then getting squelched. It wasn't in the article itself, just discussion around it. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Aug 3, 2021 |
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Aug 3, 2021 21:53
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Noob Saibot posted:I don’t consider GL Rebirth to be part of the silver age revival. Hal and the corps got done dirty in a spin-off storyline from death of Superman and DC never heard the end of it from fans. There had been letter writing campaigns and everything. I REALLY liked Hal crumbling under pressure that he put on himself just going full nuts, and becoming Parallax and DC gets it's own Magneto-type figure. Then again I enjoy crab masks and shiny green gauntlets and my GLs making gundams and romancing alien women and Amazons that don't "age their looks faster so it's totally okay don't worry about it".
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Aug 3, 2021 22:04
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Wally is finally fixed, now they need to hurry up and reveal much of what has been going on is due to Hal actually succeeding in Zero Hour and making history treat him as the greatest. You know since he's an ego manic. All the batshit crazy poo poo going on with so many legacy characters getting shafted can easily be explained by Hal's loving around with time and space to have the originals aka the icons as Didio loved to say, while the universe attempts to fight back only for Hal to keep hitting the reset button screwing up things even worse. The sooner Jordan gets skewered the better.
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Aug 4, 2021 01:25
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Jordan is fine now. The problem is too many lanterns and not enough sales to support separate books.
Mr Hootington fucked around with this message at 01:46 on Aug 4, 2021 |
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Aug 4, 2021 01:37
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Justice League is really bad, I only read it for the JL Dark parts. Is JL Dark getting its own monthly any time soon? It being shoehorned behind the main JL comic feels really insulting.
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Aug 4, 2021 01:46
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The Last Call posted:Wally is finally fixed, now they need to hurry up and reveal much of what has been going on is due to Hal actually succeeding in Zero Hour and making history treat him as the greatest. You know since he's an ego manic. All the batshit crazy poo poo going on with so many legacy characters getting shafted can easily be explained by Hal's loving around with time and space to have the originals aka the icons as Didio loved to say, while the universe attempts to fight back only for Hal to keep hitting the reset button screwing up things even worse. Morrison writing Hal as a Shinji analogue but just dealing with midlife crisises over and over again and just hitting reset again and again throw in some more obvious nods to Evangelion and I'm lapping that poo poo right up.
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Aug 4, 2021 03:28
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Azubah posted:Justice League is really bad, I only read it for the JL Dark parts. When the movie happens, and not a moment before.
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Aug 4, 2021 04:37
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Lord_Hambrose posted:When the movie happens, and not a moment before. Even then... Aquaman is DC's highest-grossing movie and a global blockbuster. The character is celebrating 80 years. Where's the ongoing monthly, DC? 
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Aug 4, 2021 04:46
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Alehkhs posted:Even then... Aquaman is DC's highest-grossing movie and a global blockbuster. The character is celebrating 80 years. They're doing one of the anniversary issues later this year that will spin off into a Black Manta series and an Aqualad series. Not sure if those are minis or ongoings, however.
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Aug 4, 2021 06:24
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Just saw on Twitter that Wild Dog was part of the Capitol attack, at least according to a Black Label book. I don't care about the character, but that's surely a weird thing to add to a non-canon version of him.
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Aug 4, 2021 06:28
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Roth posted:They're doing one of the anniversary issues later this year that will spin off into a Black Manta series and an Aqualad series. Not sure if those are minis or ongoings, however. Minis is what I had heard, but who knows if they won't become something more.  They also just put out a trade collecting all the digital "Deep Dive" issues they had last year. I just want more Aquaman/Aquafamily v  v
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Aug 4, 2021 06:51
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Azubah posted:Justice League is really bad, I only read it for the JL Dark parts. How's JL selling btw? A friend was telling me the other day that it's one of the worst selling runs of the team but he also despises Bendis and didn't link me anything about that lol
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Aug 4, 2021 06:53
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Adnor posted:How's JL selling btw? A friend was telling me the other day that it's one of the worst selling runs of the team but he also despises Bendis and didn't link me anything about that lol
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Aug 4, 2021 08:33
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Adnor posted:How's JL selling btw? A friend was telling me the other day that it's one of the worst selling runs of the team but he also despises Bendis and didn't link me anything about that lol It sells pretty well, yet is not great as a book. The ultimate lesson of comics. His Justice League book has been... Fine? Following up a particularly bad run helps for sure, but I don't think team books have even been one of Bendis's strengths as a writer.
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Aug 4, 2021 13:09
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It's kind of very solidly a Bendis team book. It's decompressed as hell to the point that the issue you read this week is basically the same issue that you've read two weeks ago and will probably be basically the same issue that you'll read two weeks from now. The fights always happen in the same manner and sequence (the team bumrushes the villain, they get flattened, they try again, roll dice for outcome) and the only difference is exactly which OP OC Bendis has shuffled in for this arc, and even then the differences between his characters generally tend to be cosmetic at best. That being said, it's also true that it's just kinda...fine?...as a book. Nothing egregiously terrible has happened yet in this series, which is much more than we can say for many other DC books, Bendis-written or otherwise. The only notable elements are how much Naomi he's shoving in here -- although she's getting a TV show soon so that might be the rationale -- along with his writing of Batman being just ever so slightly off somehow in a hard-to-describe way, almost like he's trying to see just how much slightly-off-Batman he can get away with writing before people really start to make a fuss.
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Aug 4, 2021 13:39
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Naomi is used in a more restrained way than say Spider-Woman was in his New Avengers run, but obsessively pushing whatever character he is interested in at the expense of all others has always been his MO. Naomi is one of my biggest disappointments in the last few years easily. While I admittedly did like her original mini, I loved it up until she got powers and just became just another super person. The beginning where she is just a really believable person to exist in that universe, dreaming of getting powers and meeting all the super heroes she is fascinated by, was great. I loved finding out about how she was unknowingly surrounded by weirdness and aliens! Then she just gets powers and become a pretty by the numbers teen hero. Sure, great. I can definitely see where someone wanted to just do Ms Marvel, but DC and so that is just what they did. Getting powers because she is actually descended from a powerful bloodline of special people and not just a normal person who gets caught up in a crazy situation really makes he veer closer to Naruto than Kamala Khan in my opinion. Not awful, but much less compelling. Ms Marvel would also have not worked as well if you found out her parents also has secret powers and her illusion of normalcy was always a lie.
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Aug 4, 2021 13:54
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Lord_Hambrose posted:Naomi is used in a more restrained way than say Spider-Woman was in his New Avengers run, but obsessively pushing whatever character he is interested in at the expense of all others has always been his MO. This might seem too much, but I really think it's how you get a new character to stick around these days, you just have to over-push them at first to properly install them. I feel like 20-30 years ago, new characters could sort of remain by becoming part of supporting casts because status quo wasn't rebooted as much when new writers came on.
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Aug 4, 2021 15:36
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https://twitter.com/THR/status/1422952382195961856
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Aug 4, 2021 17:26
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radlum posted:Just saw on Twitter that Wild Dog was part of the Capitol attack, at least according to a Black Label book. I guess it's made to make the book feel more "contemporary" or something? This is the same book where Joker is being bankrolled by Russia to cause general mayhem in Gotham.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:34
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Xelkelvos posted:I guess it's made to make the book feel more "contemporary" or something? This is the same book where Joker is being bankrolled by Russia to cause general mayhem in Gotham. No way.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:39
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I'm genuinely surprised by how good Jim Lee turned out to be at navigating high-level corporate politics.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:40
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Mr Hootington posted:No way.
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Aug 4, 2021 17:57
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Nessus posted:I remember when the Joker was an Iranian diplomat. Another great enemy of the American empire who is an immediate threat! The joker mini will have to be edited to replace Russia with china.
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Aug 4, 2021 18:09
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FMguru posted:I'm genuinely surprised by how good Jim Lee turned out to be at navigating high-level corporate politics. I assume he was one of the guys who gave a poo poo about learning the business side when they started Image
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Aug 4, 2021 18:12
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How is Black Adam in JL? That’s the only reason I was kind of interested.
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Aug 4, 2021 22:11
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Quotey posted:How is Black Adam in JL? That’s the only reason I was kind of interested. Because of how everything is paced, not much more can be said besides He exists.
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Aug 5, 2021 00:26
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That joker suicide squad book is insanely bad!
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Aug 5, 2021 04:31
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