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going to iseguy into a mans rear end
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Aug 2, 2021 10:01
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McKilligan posted:I get that season 2 is supposed to be about the downfall of Tekkadan, but I wish it had been handled with a little more care. The reason child soldiers are effective war fighters is because they crave authority, validation, and can be manipulated into doing whatever you want. Orga was still a child when the show began, and even when Tekkadan is a fully realized corporation he's only barely 19. From their perspective there are no alternatives, because their job is to be pawns to a historical force. The kids have no real education to speak of, so they're blinkered into following the currents of conflict as they exist to make a big score. Like, you talk about the "material conditions" that made them child soldiers in the first place, but those material conditions are reinforced by a political state that's enforced by Gjallarhorn. Mars is a world controlled by the economic blocs of Earth and their corporations, and the petty conflicts between those interests & exploitation of labor are what produces such a large number of orphans. Tekkadan are pursuing potentially revolutionary avenues that could - if successful - preclude the very existence of child soldiers like themselves. Maybe there were several opportunities to save their own skin, but once their outlook had become politicized they could not conceive of any alternatives - nor would they have been able to as child soldiers conditioned to believe this is the only way they can survive.
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Aug 2, 2021 10:24
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McKilligan posted:I get that season 2 is supposed to be about the downfall of Tekkadan through ambition, but I wish it had been handled with a little more care. Orga feels like he's just railroaded without much agency. One of the biggest problems with Tekkadan is that Orga chose to imitate Naze Turbine's leadership style, and ended up creating an organisation that was basically a giant personality cult around himself. Nobody leaves him, says no to him, or comes up with alternatives because holy poo poo he's Orga Itsuka, and that itself forces him into the cage of being the one cool, smart guy with all the ideas because he's terrified of letting all of them (but especially Mikazuki) down. The death of Biscuit and his confrontation with Mika on the train sent him and Tekkadan down a path there was no coming back from.
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Aug 2, 2021 10:26
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Dongicus posted:going to iseguy into a mans rear end Nice
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Aug 2, 2021 12:17
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I've seen plenty of criticism of IBO, but "Why didn't all the child solders just decide to give up the only life they've ever known, go against the leadership of the man who led them from slavery to freedom, and get their GEDs and enroll in a technical college?" is a new one.
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Aug 2, 2021 14:22
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If I was a child soldier in a revolutionary insurgent force I'd simply stop.
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Aug 2, 2021 14:27
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Gripweed posted:I've seen plenty of criticism of IBO, but "Why didn't all the child solders just decide to give up the only life they've ever known, go against the leadership of the man who led them from slavery to freedom, and get their GEDs and enroll in a technical college?" is a new one. once Mika learns how to code he'll be unstoppable
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Aug 2, 2021 14:31
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Netflix just told me there's a new macaroni Kenshin? Anyone seen it? Any good? E: no I'm keeping it, even if it's a little cheesey
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Aug 2, 2021 16:39
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ibo is also a great example of liberal magical thinking by way of Mcgillis. He’s convinced that fulfilling some obscure outdated rule will make the oligarchs in charge just hand over power to him. And he’s flabbergasted and has no idea what to do when they tell him “lol no the rules don’t apply to us you stupid peasant”. It’s like Trump impeachment in space.
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Aug 2, 2021 20:56
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Gripweed posted:I've seen plenty of criticism of IBO, but "Why didn't all the child solders just decide to give up the only life they've ever known, go against the leadership of the man who led them from slavery to freedom, and get their GEDs and enroll in a technical college?" is a new one. It's not that I expected that them to do things differently, it makes perfect sense that Orga and the rest of Tekkadan act the way that they do. The overall plot arc of the ascendance and downfall of Tekkadan is fine, I wouldn't change a single plot beat, but the way the plot unfolds is usually the result of outside forces acting upon them, rather than their own choices. A tragedy is more effective when it's the end result of deliberate actions and good intentions, as opposed to external forces. Orga being young, only 17-19 and thrust into leading a PMC is a huge deal, but the show and other characters almost never treat him as anything but a full adult. His youth, idealism, naivete, inexperience and limited worldview aren't ever factors that work against him, when things turn against Tekkadan it's usually the result of conspiracy rather than his choices. Most of the time he's portrayed as a savvy tactician. I just wanted to see more nuance to his actions - for his decisions to be shown as the specific choice he made among others, and therefore the costs associated with that his direct responsibility. The show doesn't really do this - Orga's gambles are the last, desperate options for success, and as a result the consequences aren't directly his fault. When you're backed into a corner, you'll bear less responsibility than when you have other options at your disposal. When characters die as a result of his orders, they're inevitable tragedies rather than casualties that he's responsible for. To it's credit, the show handles this pretty well - Orga doubles down. It's the sunk cost fallacy. He can't stop now, not with so the sacrifices he's had to make, but he never second guesses himself, because there was never any other option. Season 1 had a good example of this - To infiltrate Edmonton, Orga orders a full-scale assault on a fortified enemy position at a bridge to distract the enemy while they sneak the former Prime Minister across the riverbed. The assault team, predictably, suffers heavy casualties. It's shown that they'd been at a stalemate on the bridge for a long time before their assault - plenty of time to come up with alternatives. I wish someone had at least shown an alternate plan that might have had a lower chance of success, but was also less risky. Orga choosing the more dangerous option has more weight when it isn't the only option at his disposal. I wish their actions were contextualized better by other characters. Tekkadan following the only approach they've ever known - violence, makes perfect sense for them, but there's plenty of people surrounding Orga and Mika who AREN'T child soldiers and whose whole job in the plot should have been to say "hey this is kind of hosed up". Kudelia, Merribit, to a lesser extent Atra are all characters who exist to contrast Orga and Mika's worldview, I just wish they had more of a chance to speak up and challenge Orga to justify his decisions. Got no complaints about Mika though - I love a good, dead-eyed pragmatic blunt-instrument of a character. McKilligan has issued a correction as of 02:13 on Aug 3, 2021 |
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Aug 3, 2021 02:10
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The whole appeal of Greek tragedy was that bad things can still happen due to fate, and regardless of making all the right choices you can still be doomed by forces beyond your control. It's not more poignant or weighty to have bad outcomes arise from the decisions of a protagonist, it's far more tragic to watch them lose despite making all the right choices because the deck is so heavily stacked against them. From beginning to end they're engaging in a rigged game.
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Aug 3, 2021 03:30
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Listen, I'm not saying every Gundam problem could be fixed if anyone knew the phrase "The history of all hitherto existing societies, is the history of class struggle" it would go a long way to helping
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Aug 3, 2021 04:21
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I have not watched a Gundam since G Gundam as a child, where's a good place to start?
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Aug 3, 2021 05:04
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KillerQueen posted:I have not watched a Gundam since G Gundam as a child, where's a good place to start? I had lost all interest in Gundam after Seed Destiny and got back into it because of Gundam Thunderbolt - so I'd suggest that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZQfVhbdxFw
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Aug 3, 2021 05:06
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i fuckin love gundam so many cool robots
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Aug 3, 2021 05:14
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There's Turn A. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpqwY7tsZS4 Then there's the recently released Hathaway's Flash that is very good, although it benefits from having watched Char's Counter-Attack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt5KpmUGkbw
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Aug 3, 2021 05:18
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Just watch Hathaway's Flash
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Aug 3, 2021 05:29
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Iron-Blooded Orphans is an excellent, stand-alone intro to modern Gundam.
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Aug 3, 2021 14:26
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Gundam Thunderbolt: December Sky and Gundam 0080 are both short excellent standalone Gundams. I think Netflix has Gundam Unicorn, which is also quite good, and doesn't require much knowledge of the franchise beyond "there was a big space war"
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Aug 3, 2021 14:37
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The problem with UC gundams is you're going to appreciate them more knowing the backstory & context, but Thunderbolt and 0080 are pure standalone stories.
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Aug 3, 2021 14:42
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MonsieurChoc posted:There's Turn A.
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Aug 3, 2021 14:48
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Darth Walrus posted:Iron-Blooded Orphans is an excellent, stand-alone intro to modern Gundam. What streaming service do I need to watch it?
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Aug 3, 2021 14:48
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HootTheOwl posted:Does that Gundam have a moustache? Yes.
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Aug 3, 2021 15:16
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HootTheOwl posted:What streaming service do I need to watch it? its anime just steal it wtf
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Aug 3, 2021 15:28
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lmao theres a baki isekai
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Aug 3, 2021 15:34
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The problem with UC gundams is you're going to appreciate them more knowing the backstory & context, but Thunderbolt and 0080 are pure standalone stories. The power of free jazz is beyond anime timelines
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Aug 3, 2021 15:41
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HootTheOwl posted:What streaming service do I need to watch it? I believe Crunchyroll still has it.
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Aug 3, 2021 16:01
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Darth Walrus posted:I believe Crunchyroll still has it.
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Aug 3, 2021 16:13
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HootTheOwl posted:Does that Gundam have a moustache?
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Aug 3, 2021 16:18
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The cast of Digimon Tamers did a live script read where they literally fought political correctness. https://twitter.com/doctoroak/status/1422544534085513222?s=19
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Aug 3, 2021 16:37
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I wasn't really a fan of IBO s2 but it was less due to Tekkadan and more to it really trying to great the one bearded commander as like this genuine noble good guy among the Gjalarhorn elite. Like iirc in the ending all the reforms and poo poo McGillis or Kudelia wanted to do in s1 are just done by him in the epilogue.]
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Aug 3, 2021 16:41
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Gripweed posted:The cast of Digimon Tamers did a live script read where they literally fought political correctness. 
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Aug 3, 2021 18:58
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That's not anime, it's a liver performance
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Aug 3, 2021 19:05
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I feel like it would be incredibly taxing to know him as a person in real-life. Unlike say, Junji Ito who would probably get high and do crimes with you.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:09
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Gripweed posted:That's not anime, it's a liver performance christmas boots posted:I feel like it would be incredibly taxing to know him as a person in real-life. Unlike say, Junji Ito who would probably get high and do crimes with you. 
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Aug 3, 2021 19:19
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Zerilan posted:I wasn't really a fan of IBO s2 but it was less due to Tekkadan and more to it really trying to great the one bearded commander as like this genuine noble good guy among the Gjalarhorn elite. Like iirc in the ending all the reforms and poo poo McGillis or Kudelia wanted to do in s1 are just done by him in the epilogue.] He's not a noble good guy. He's a wise but ruthless pragmatist who crushed a rebellion in the cruellest and most brutal way possible, vilified the perpetrators as monsters and madmen, and then instituted the reforms that would prevent it from happening again while giving the credit to a photogenic but largely powerless internal reformer. You know, the normal way that social change ends up happening.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:55
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IBO really is the most politically true to life Gundam, and that's the biggest reason people don't like it.
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Aug 3, 2021 23:01
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christmas boots posted:I feel like it would be incredibly taxing to know him as a person in real-life. Unlike say, Junji Ito who would probably get high and do crimes with you. precisely the reason why I appreciate Miyazaki, independent of his work
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Aug 3, 2021 23:03
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Gripweed posted:The cast of Digimon Tamers did a live script read where they literally fought political correctness. fighting for the light of refugees incarcerated as far from our glorious way of life as possible 
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Aug 3, 2021 23:08
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Honest Thief posted:lmao theres a baki isekai magical trickery could never defeat 10,000 years of Chinese martial arts
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Aug 3, 2021 23:15
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