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Do you prefer the extended summer thread format? This poll is closed. |
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126 | 44.21% |
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39 | 13.68% |
| I'm Scottish |
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120 | 42.11% |
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Borrovan posted:In (most of) their minds, they actually support trans people's right to live as they want, they just also simultaneously believe a bunch of heinous stuff that is completely incompatible with that (see: JKR's screed).  The most absolutely charitable reading I could give to either is that they're so clueless that they think that homophobia/transphobia only covers the direct violence and rejection and think that there's some third way of stopping that without mainstream awareness, possibly through neutral campaigns against violence and pro being nice, but I'm not feeling that charitable towards any of them at the moment. 273K is about when water freezes
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Aug 3, 2021 18:18
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It really would be nice to be able to just point at things I don't like and say it's postmodernism. I don't actually understand what postmodernism is but I think that 1. that has not historically stopped anybody and 2. what I think I do understand about it means that it actually shouldn't be an obstacle to me doing that and 3. I think a lot of the stuff I actually don't like is postmodernist so I might actually be right.
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Aug 3, 2021 18:31
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Guavanaut posted:They believe that in the same way that the more mainstream 90s homophobes believed that "I don't care what gays do in the privacy of their own homes, but they shouldn't be going around being gay in public and they shouldn't be shoving all that down our throats or teaching in schools where they can push their lifestyle on our kids and cause rapid onset massive gayness" I think you're right about this, at least for some of them. We know they don't like being called TERF (even though they invented it), but in this latest mess I've seen them boo-hooing about being called "anti-trans" as well. They either don't think they are, or they don't think they're the kind of person who likes to think they are, or [fill in higher order derivatives yourself]... And your second para matches a line from the Praxiscast I was listening to earlier, in references to liberal anti-racism - "racism is when you say the bad words"
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Aug 3, 2021 18:33
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big scary monsters posted:I like Brand New, but I knew nothing about the singer except his lyrics and was not really surprised. There are several songs where he is literally singing about manipulating women into sex. Bit of a theme across emo tbh Not giving anyone a free pass but isn't that kind of a lot of music lyrically? I love Pinkerton, I think it's a loving wonderful power-pop/emo record but the lyrics really are kind of "yeeesh". But they are a reflection of where Rivers was at the time & are brutally honest. He was coming off a debut record which was pretty loving big & found himself at university split between hating the rock & roll lifestyle & missing it, feeling a real sense of loneliness & isolation and poured those confusion of inconsistent feelings into a deeply personal & kind of ugly record. And it's relatable, because I remember being an isolated lonely 20something, you're meant to be an adult now & yet you're still fumbling around how to be you, whoever you are, while dealing with work & perhaps unrequited love & so forth, you can have some ugly thoughts. You don't act on them because you're not a piece of poo poo, but you still think them & you beat yourself up about thinking about them & music like that can help you realise that other people do have the same thoughts, you're not a unique monster.
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Aug 3, 2021 18:37
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Guavanaut posted:They believe that in the same way that the more mainstream 90s homophobes believed that "I don't care what gays do in the privacy of their own homes, but they shouldn't be going around being gay in public and they shouldn't be shoving all that down our throats or teaching in schools where they can push their lifestyle on our kids and cause rapid onset massive gayness"
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Aug 3, 2021 18:38
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I'm trying to think of a song about sex, or even love, that *isn't* faintly creepy. At the very best they come off like pass-aggressive reply guys just before they SWAT some hot tub Twitch streamer's house, and even the very prototype, Greensleeves, is literally "I bought you poo poo now give me sex". This is why my go-to love song is Beef Baloney by Fear, which while possibly a bit neggy and homophobic in the intro is certainly straightforward in the main song, and also short enough that nobody gets any funny ideas about how long this is going to last: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dO5KoBHto80
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Aug 3, 2021 18:51
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Guavanaut posted:...and cause rapid onset massive gayness" Er, what actually does cause this? Asking for a friend.
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Aug 3, 2021 18:53
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I would contend that the HIM album razorblade romance is not faintly creepy because many of the songs seem to be about murder suicide and possibly necrophilia and so are in fact, rather more than fantly creepy.
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Aug 3, 2021 18:56
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forkboy84 posted:Not giving anyone a free pass but isn't that kind of a lot of music lyrically? I love Pinkerton, I think it's a loving wonderful power-pop/emo record but the lyrics really are kind of "yeeesh". But they are a reflection of where Rivers was at the time & are brutally honest. He was coming off a debut record which was pretty loving big & found himself at university split between hating the rock & roll lifestyle & missing it, feeling a real sense of loneliness & isolation and poured those confusion of inconsistent feelings into a deeply personal & kind of ugly record. And it's relatable, because I remember being an isolated lonely 20something, you're meant to be an adult now & yet you're still fumbling around how to be you, whoever you are, while dealing with work & perhaps unrequited love & so forth, you can have some ugly thoughts. You don't act on them because you're not a piece of poo poo, but you still think them & you beat yourself up about thinking about them & music like that can help you realise that other people do have the same thoughts, you're not a unique monster. You're quite right and of course having those thoughts and feelings isn't uncommon and doesn't mean people are acting on them. I don't assume that death metal bands are actually into all the messed up stuff they sing about, it's like the difference between enjoying slasher movies and being an actual serial killer. I just always found a few Brand New songs a little troubling even for the genre.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:06
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A lot of early Brand New (and I dunno maybe later stuff as well I really only listened to Your Favourite Weapon and Deja Entendu) is basically Jesse Lacey being massively pissed off with John Nolan from Taking Back Sunday sleeping with his girlfriend and forcing Lacey to leave the band he started. It's basically a teenager (although he was like 21 at the time) throwing a strop and getting all sad about it. This was pretty much all of the alternative/emo/pop punk scene of the late 90s/early 00s - my girlfriend broke up with me and she's a bitch because of it. There's very little introspection on why she broke up with him, of course. There's a few songs on that first album that are really dark as a result of it, basically wishing she dies. If you're a kid growing up around that time and going through similar stuff you're totally on board with it. Nowadays... it's rough to listen to.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:25
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Borrovan posted:I looked at The Bad Tweets, and their stance is that yeah Pratchett was obviously not transphobic but neither are they, they just have ~legitimate concerns~ about [insert transphobic talking points], and none of his obvious trans positive storylines expressed an opinion on those points so who's to say. I guess it's kind of a consistent line of reasoning if you don't accept that terves are transphobic. It's just that that's dumb. I feel ike the Good PLace doesn't really deal with the nature of death and the afterlife all that much. Yes, they're in the afterlife, and they spend a lot of time talking about how the afterlife is run, but it's more about whether or not people are able to change and become better. Which is why it felt kind of weird when the last few episodes suddenly swerve into solely being about the nature of the afterlife. I feel it would have fit the shows themes better if the solution at the end was reincarnation. They've established that even with the memory-wipes you're still the same "you", there's some core of your personhood (we could call it a soul) that grows and improves, which fits very neatly with a lot of takes on reincarnation. It would make the afterlife more of a rest-stop than a final destination - people would go through the moral boot-camp, and then stay in the afterlife in peace until they feel they're ready to enter the world again. Which for some people would be a long time, for others, less time. I can absolutely imagine Jason's response to dieing to be "yippie, that was fun, lets go again!" and immediately running through the door. That said, even if the ending didn't quite land for me philosophically, I still sobbed like a child.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:35
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My favorite Brand New song was always Me vs Maradona vs Elvis, and not knowing much at all about the band itself or Jesse Lacey at the time I assumed it was written judgementally about some ficticious or real predator. Knowing what we do now makes it come across much more bizarre and self loathing.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:42
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It's gender NIMBYism. (Not in my bathroom, yah?) It's not that they have anything against the transgenders, oh no no, but why can't they do it over *there*. See also: refugees, anything that involves sending charity overseas to feel good about solving the problem there, you know countless other things. "Don't make me think, let me feel good about myself and how tolerant I am". By which of course it's not tolerance at all and it's *certainly* not acceptance. Edit: to be less of a downer though, they are vastly overrepresented in the media and the country is a lot better in terms of acceptance than they'd have you think Isomermaid fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Aug 3, 2021 |
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Aug 3, 2021 19:44
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Strom Cuzewon posted:Good Place Since quite a few people here disagree, I guess they could maybe have done better getting that point across, but personally I really liked that they didn't just outright tell us all the philosophy and tried to show us instead. It's not perfect, but at the end of the day it's a sitcom, not a thesis - it's limited in what it can convey, & it definitely spoke to me  I'm starting to get very conscious of quite how many very long spoilered posts we've made today & frankly I'm starting to giggle at how it must look to people who are deliberately skipping them at this point, but ................ ........ .. ..................... ........... ...... ............... ............. .................. ........................... ....... ......... .................. ............. .................. ............ .......... .......... .................. ........... .......... ....... ........ .. ..................... ........... ...... ......... ....... ........ .. ..................... ........... ...... ............... ............. .................. ........................... ....... ......... .................. ............. .................. ............ .......... .......... .................. ........... ................. ........ .. ..................... ........... ...... ............... ............. .................. ........................... ....... ......... .................. ............. .................. ............ ... ....... ........ .. ..................... ........... ...... ............... ............. .................. ........................... ....... ......... .................. ............. .................. ............ .......... .......... .................. ........... ................. ........ . .... .. . ..................... ........... ...... ............... ............. .................. ........................... ....... ......... .................. ............. .................. ............ .......... .......... .................. ........... ................. ........ .. ..................... ........... ...... ............... ............. .......... .................. ........... .......... ....... ........ .. ..................... ........... ...... ......................... ............ .......... poo 
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Aug 3, 2021 20:12
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The MLK Gambit: where you loudly proclaim that a famous person would agree with you, get called out that they actually believed the opposite of you and then find a middle ground saying "Who's to say what they believed". Even got the daughter involved too.
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Aug 3, 2021 20:31
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Cut out the middle step and just call them Transphobes. Y'aint feminist if you cut out transpeople, and it brings that to the fore instead of obfuscating it behind an acronym that they can just call a slur. Sure, they try that with Transpobe too, but there is a lineage behind 'phobe words you can stick them with.
Kokoro Wish fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 3, 2021 |
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Aug 3, 2021 20:50
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Vando posted:This isn't strictly true, and smacks of "both sides are as bad as the other". Doing something like debunking an attempt to weaponise a beloved childhood (and beyond) figure in the cause of perpetuating societal transphobia is not "symbolic", it is a real line of defence against something that has real world consequences. I disagree and think it's a fully symbolic battle, the author is dead, there's no way his (obvious) position affects GI legislation or whatever. I also more or less disagree that twitter has a positive impact for progressive politics. It can probably comfort individuals at least and you can point towards fundraisers? I don't think twitter is that useful a battlefield though. BUT I didn't mean to minimise trans rights as just a symbolic issue. What really loving sucks is that trans people have been wrapped into the culture war as acceptable flesh and blood targets along with black people, muslims and, I suspect soon, Chinese people.
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Aug 3, 2021 20:55
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The current TERF news is misinterpreting female athletes "no comment"-ing on what they think of of trans athletes as some kind of dignified win for them and making a hashtag out of it.
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Aug 3, 2021 20:57
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Communist Thoughts posted:I suspect soon, Chinese people. That consent has been manufactured, it's got a life of it's own now, it won't stop until hindsight leaves it in the list of self-evident falsehoods. Like every other conflict.
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Aug 3, 2021 21:00
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Just got a search suggestion for what sounds like the worst possible movie franchise
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Aug 3, 2021 21:01
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Guavanaut posted:Just got a search suggestion for what sounds like the worst possible movie franchise Hookworm on a Feeling?
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Aug 3, 2021 21:07
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Borrovan posted:I thought she was doing that to deliberately set him up to fail & show the audience what a loving charade the whole thing is Good lord no, Tominey is a royal correspondent and therefore establishment to the absolute core, she'd never show up someone like Rees-Mogg on purpose.
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Aug 3, 2021 21:23
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Szmitten posted:The current TERF news is misinterpreting female athletes "no comment"-ing on what they think of of trans athletes as some kind of dignified win for them and making a hashtag out of it. Trans athletes competing in their chosen gender events are the only niggle i have in my 53 year old brain regarding gender identity. I'm aware that i have stepped into a minefield with that comment, it's the only issue that has ever occurred to me as unfair to all involved, i have no solution. 
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Aug 3, 2021 21:26
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IMO the divisions shouldn't be gendered, they should be based on some other physical measurement like weight categories in boxing. Those would probably be heavily correlated with gender, but importantly, not 100%.
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Aug 3, 2021 21:29
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Just Another Lurker posted:Trans athletes competing in their chosen gender events are the only niggle i have in my 53 year old brain regarding gender identity. Basically there's no evidence that there's any kind of problem (& frankly the reasons for segregating sports by gender can be wooly at times anyway), so why would you err on the side of excluding trans women without any evidence?
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Aug 3, 2021 21:35
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Borrovan posted:Luckily the policy was made by an Actual Expert, basically what does & does not confer an advantage is poorly understood, save that AMAB athletes are likely to be bigger & testosterone probably has some advantage (but probably far less than people make out), so there's absolutely no basis to exclude trans female athletes who have had normal female t-levels for a while in any sport with weight categories (& in other sports we don't see the need to exclude tall strong women anyway so why treat trans women differently?). Hell, the policing of t-levels has actually overstepped the mark pretty often and has caused cis women to fall foul of the restrictions more than once (also exclusively black women, because the IOC is also obviously heinously racist).
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Aug 3, 2021 21:39
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There's potential issues, as there are with any rigid split in something nonbinary, but the loudest voices in the public sphere are all doing some version of this poo poo So in the absence of alternative views from trans/NB people, intersex athletes, and cis women with high T in conjunction with sport physicians and endocrinologists, I'm just going to write most of the public 'debate' off as deliberately misdirected handwringing. e:  Strom Cuzewon posted:Hookworm on a Feeling? 
Guavanaut fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Aug 3, 2021 |
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Aug 3, 2021 21:40
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Gyro Zeppeli posted:Hell, the policing of t-levels has actually overstepped the mark pretty often and has caused cis women to fall foul of the restrictions more than once (also exclusively black women, because the IOC is also obviously heinously racist). I had heard about that happening to Caster Semenya, she was born intersex. I'll just leave it to those who know what they're on about then.
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Aug 3, 2021 22:23
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Borrovan posted:Luckily the policy was made by an Actual Expert, basically what does & does not confer an advantage is poorly understood, save that AMAB athletes are likely to be bigger & testosterone probably has some advantage (but probably far less than people make out), so there's absolutely no basis to exclude trans female athletes who have had normal female t-levels for a while in any sport with weight categories (& in other sports we don't see the need to exclude tall strong women anyway so why treat trans women differently?). WADA already sets absolute and relative limits for hormones for female athletes (which of course several AFAB athletes have fallen foul of) and any advantage an AMAB might be able to gain by higher testosterone and T/E ratios are pretty much wiped out by that by the time they get to the top levels. Also one of the most important determiners of athletic success is the quantity and quality of training an athlete receives as a teenager, particularly around the mid teens. Team USA absolutely dominates women's football because the USA was the first country to actually pour resources into the girl's game at school level [1] - Germany and now the rest of Europe are starting to catch up, but the Yanks still have a really good youth coaching setup [2]. Unfortunately for trans athletes they'll generally have a lot of other poo poo, both personally and medically, going on in those vital years so they're always going to be at a disadvantage to cis athletes *even in sports that are almost entirely physical*. [1] not because of any masterplan to get Brandi Chastain's torso on the back pages of the world but because of a series of court cases in the 70s and 80s forcing schools and colleges to offer women's team sports, and they settled on football as pretty much the cheapest way of doing this, just at the time that the implosion of the NASL put a lot of fairly capable coaches out of work, meaning that the US had for many years a considerably better setup for the girls game than they did for the boys, as well as a much wider talent pool to call on as boys were still mostly being pushed into American sports. [2] This is something you can also track across the men's game, particularly with the current England team - our slowly breaking out of the "fall apart in the quarters" tradition has nothing to do with Brexit, Blitz Spirit, or BLM, and everything to do with the fact that Sir Trevor Brooking has been in charge of technical development at the FA for 16 years and has completely revolutionised the way the game is coached at youth level. Our current surfeit of wispy-looking but surprisingly robust wide players is *probably* a coincidence but I'm keeping a very close eye on Raheem Stirling for any signs of avuncular rambling about rare headed goals.
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Aug 3, 2021 22:30
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Just Another Lurker posted:I had heard about that happening to Caster Semenya, she was born intersex. ...which we only know about because the IAAF deceived her into being medically tested.
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Aug 3, 2021 22:44
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Just Another Lurker posted:I had heard about that happening to Caster Semenya, she was born intersex. Michael Phelps produces less lactic acid than most people, which means his muscles fatigue at a slower rate. This is a genetic quirk but nobody has ever suggested medically boosting his lactic acide levels in the way they're suggesting female (or in Semenya's case, biologically intersex) athletes take hormonal birth control to bring down their natural testosterone levels. It's just accepted that he has this biological advantage. Transwomen athletes who have had hormone treatments will have similar reductions in testosterone and muscle mass - that's the point. Which means that they won't have a huge physical advantage, and if they did it would be reduced if women with naturally high testosterone levels weren't being banned from competing, and none of it would count for anything if their technique and training aren't up to scratch.
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Aug 3, 2021 23:09
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Lady Demelza posted:Michael Phelps produces less lactic acid than most people, which means his muscles fatigue at a slower rate. You'd loving hope so after all that training tbh
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Aug 3, 2021 23:50
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He might be good at swimming, but he'd be useless at making yogurt by placing a colony of his cells in milk, so swings and roundabouts.
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Aug 3, 2021 23:54
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goddamnedtwisto posted:This is why my go-to love song is Beef Baloney by Fear, which while possibly a bit neggy and homophobic in the intro is certainly straightforward in the main song, and also short enough that nobody gets any funny ideas about how long this is going to last: I see you and raise you some classic Cryptopsy (probably   etc; lyrics in comment #4)
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Aug 3, 2021 23:58
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The Good Place is extremely disinterested in what the afterlife is actually like (and who else is there, and what things you can do, and etc. etc). the conceit is entirely an excuse to explore morality through the angle of "when you die you are judged" - so what is judged, and how, and by what standard? the final story arc is not a statement about what the afterlife is or should be; it is an argument in favour of positive/redemptive/reparative morality over negative/critical/paranoid morality. the person being specifically alive or dead doesn't have all that much to do with it. the characters' final fate is not dissolution into nothing, but rather that their ethicality inspires and encourages other people to do good, without and beyond their direct intervention
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Aug 4, 2021 00:34
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The Perfect Element posted:That was my reading of it. You went to Eton and Cambridge and are obnoxiously 'clever' as part of your public persona, so this should be easy!! I always thought classics were mandatory at Eton, especially during his time. Even my terrible school did lots of mandatory greek and latin. Not that I remember much besides the obligatory: "Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt belgae, aliam aquitani, tertiam, qui ipsorum lingua celtae, nostra galli, appellantur. Hi omnes lingua, institutis, legibus inter se differunt. Gallos ab aqutanis garumna flumen, a belgis matrona et sequana dividit. Horum omnium fortissimi sunt belgae, propterea quod a cultu atque humanitate provinciae longissime absunt, minimeque ad eos mercatores saepe commeant atque ea quae ad effeminandos animos pertinent important, proximique sunt germanis, qui trans rhenum incolunt, quibuscum continenter bellum gerunt." I learned that in like the second year out of seven but I barely remember anything else. And yes I did just type all that out, can even recite it when I'm so drunk I can't walk. The incredible usefulness of classics. Also remember "don't throw your spears at strangers" in koine greek. I guess it's marginally useful life advice at least. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Aug 4, 2021 |
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Aug 4, 2021 00:46
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Should really get round to finally watching the last six or so episodes of the good place i guess, if only so I can read half the last three pages. Was most of the way there and the ol' lockdown brain capacity cycle crashed, you know how it is Couple years back in the before times I was on a bus and two people behind me had the conversation, "Have you seen The Good Place?" "No, what's it about" at which point person 1 pretty much immediately spoiled a fairly sizeable plot development, you know the one. Luckily I had watched past that bit by that point but jesus guys can we have some Basic Decency, what a world
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Aug 4, 2021 01:15
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One of my wife's friends has a habit of asking "Do you mind spoilers?" and if you say yes he goes out of his way to really, really badly hint at the spoiler to the point that he realises he's basically spoiled it and then tells you anyway.
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Aug 4, 2021 02:22
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Private Speech posted:I always thought classics were mandatory at Eton, especially during his time. Caesar adsum jam forte Brutus aderat Caesar sic in omnibus Brutus sic in at
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Aug 4, 2021 02:50
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romanii eunt domus
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Aug 4, 2021 03:01
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