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Going from the original Mistborn trilogy to Wax and Wayne is so weird and jarring. I’m enjoying the hell out of the book, but I have a lot of thoughts I want to share later.
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Aug 3, 2021 16:06
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Mordiceius posted:Going from the original Mistborn trilogy to Wax and Wayne is so weird and jarring. I’m enjoying the hell out of the book, but I have a lot of thoughts I want to share later. Please do, you know we all went gaga over your reactions. The transition is a bit jarring, that's true. It probably helped that there was quite a gap between Hero of Ages and Alloy of Law. Also, we went in with different expectations. Brandon announced that he basically wrote the whole book on a trans-Atlantic flight, we didn't know it would expand to a full Mistborn series of it's own. It was basically sold as "fun, short wild west story set on Scadrial".
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Aug 3, 2021 16:56
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Going from the Mistborn trilogy, which is some kill-or-be-killed fantasy to a more modern-ish setting feels like total whiplash. That’s not a bad thing. It helps to make this setting feel removed from the previous one. “Allomancy and electricity and skyscrapers” feels a whole lot different from the previous world. I’m 1/3 of the way through the book and it has pretty much all, thus far, taken place in Elendel. So I’m curious to see the Roughs. I am just past the first major firefight. If anyone had ever seen Gurren Lagann, this reminds me of the societal/technological jump that happens in that series. The main difference between the Mistborn and W&W, to me, is that in W&W, mere existence doesn’t feel so difficult, if that makes sense. In Mistborn, basic survival seemed all-consuming. There is far less of a feeling of dread permeating everything. I’m really enjoying the book so far. It is just wild to me how far removed from Mistborn this series feels. Maybe that will change further in. I feel like I’m too used to series where sequel series… don’t really change much? Like, take Star Wars, for example. Knights of the Old Republic is set 4000 years before the films. Yet…. it looks like it could be set 5 years prior. Maybe I don’t read enough sci-if/fantasy, but I feel like not many authors have done this style of revisiting a world through the era and having meaningful societal/technological evolution. A FEW QUESTIONS - Do we ever get backstory on the discovery of bendalloy or anything? I can’t remember if it was via the first trilogy or this thread, but I remember hearing that Scadrial basically had the entirety of the Mistborn trilogy happening around the northern pole, with the southern pole being this special untainted population that the Lord Ruler placed as a backup or something like that. Is the population of the basically broken up into those two groups? For the northern pole with Elendel - is that basically the only major city? Is it just Elendel and then Wild West-style small towns for the rest of the area? Seems like either Scadrial is a small planet or 95% of the planet is uninhabited wasteland. Also, to me, I can’t imagine Wax as anyone but Timothy Olyphant. Anyone else feel the same?
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Aug 3, 2021 17:30
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unfortunately no one is allowed to respond to any of your questions: rafo i liked that series but it really clicked for me with the third book, because that's the first that's a Proper Book rather than a quick romp novella
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Aug 3, 2021 17:36
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Mordiceius posted:Going from the Mistborn trilogy, which is some kill-or-be-killed fantasy to a more modern-ish setting feels like total whiplash. That’s not a bad thing. It helps to make this setting feel removed from the previous one. “Allomancy and electricity and skyscrapers” feels a whole lot different from the previous world. I’m 1/3 of the way through the book and it has pretty much all, thus far, taken place in Elendel. So I’m curious to see the Roughs. I am just past the first major firefight.
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Aug 3, 2021 18:00
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Mordiceius posted:Going from the Mistborn trilogy, which is some kill-or-be-killed fantasy to a more modern-ish setting feels like total whiplash. That’s not a bad thing. It helps to make this setting feel removed from the previous one. “Allomancy and electricity and skyscrapers” feels a whole lot different from the previous world. I’m 1/3 of the way through the book and it has pretty much all, thus far, taken place in Elendel. So I’m curious to see the Roughs. I am just past the first major firefight. The lowering of stakes is what makes the series work, imho. I mean, you can't realistically raise the stakes when previously, the whole planet was in serious danger of being destroyed. Basic survival (especially as a skaa) was a daily struggle. But Hero of Ages had a proper ending where these problems were solved (more or less), and so it feels natural that people overall live much easier lives than the previous generations. And I think you accurately describe how rare societal progress and change is portrayed in sf/fantasy. Not only do the different millennia in Star Wars hardly feel different, the differences between Kirk's Federation and Picard's Federation don't feel big enough for the time that has elapsed, especially if you compare it to the truly astonishing transformation our own society had undergone since the 1920s. So I really appreciate that Wax & Wayne are set in a radically different (but still recognizably Scadrian) culture. As for your questions, you once again manage to ask the right questions that we can't really answer without spoiling anything.
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Aug 3, 2021 18:15
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Torrannor posted:And I think you accurately describe how rare societal progress and change is portrayed in sf/fantasy. Not only do the different millennia in Star Wars hardly feel different, the differences between Kirk's Federation and Picard's Federation don't feel big enough for the time that has elapsed, especially if you compare it to the truly astonishing transformation our own society had undergone since the 1920s. So I really appreciate that Wax & Wayne are set in a radically different (but still recognizably Scadrian) culture. one thing i like about those books is this, yeah, it feels like a world on the precipice of even more rapid technological explosion which is... very accurate for the time period it's trying to evoke
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Aug 3, 2021 18:18
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The rapid progression of technology is one of my favorite things about the Mistborn sequel series. They hit their industrial revolution, and it shows. Sanderson wants to make at least two more Mistborn series after this one: an 80s-equivalent spy thriller and straight-up science fiction with Allomancy-powered spaceships.
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Aug 3, 2021 18:37
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eke out posted:one thing i like about those books is this, yeah, it feels like a world on the precipice of even more rapid technological explosion which is... very accurate for the time period it's trying to evoke It is so interesting because it made me realize how much systems and locations become linked in my mind. When they talk of a 50 story skyscraper and a character climbing it with steel pushes, my brain short circuits a bit. In a good way, of course. The Cosmere, as a whole, is a massive undertaking and even when there are missteps and weaker books, it doesn’t diminish the absolute marvel of the project’s ambition. Torrannor posted:And I think you accurately describe how rare societal progress and change is portrayed in sf/fantasy. Not only do the different millennia in Star Wars hardly feel different, the differences between Kirk's Federation and Picard's Federation don't feel big enough for the time that has elapsed, especially if you compare it to the truly astonishing transformation our own society had undergone since the 1920s. So I really appreciate that Wax & Wayne are set in a radically different (but still recognizably Scadrian) culture. It’s super fascinating because, while I admit my knowledge of sci-if/fantasy books is extremely limited, I can’t think of any that cover the same location/planet/universe across different eras while also having meaningful development. Hell, how much time is there between The Silmarillion and Lord of the Rings? I feel like you’re only beginning to see the world change by the end of the latter book. But it isn’t significant compared to the time between the books. I feel like fiction stories love to do the “precursor” race/society thing where there is an ancient race that was highly advanced (gods does that get boring). But I really can’t name any authors who have attempted to do something similar to Sanderson.
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Aug 3, 2021 18:41
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Mordiceius posted:Also, to me, I can’t imagine Wax as anyone but Timothy Olyphant. Anyone else feel the same? Uh I read him as older but now that Olyphant is fully grey-haired, maybe. The parts where Wax is a former aristocrat aren't very Raylan Givens
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Aug 3, 2021 19:00
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mewse posted:Uh I read him as older but now that Olyphant is fully grey-haired, maybe. The parts where Wax is a former aristocrat aren't very Raylan Givens I was more thinking an older Seth Bullock.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:05
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Now I just have to decide if I’m doing a Mistborn re-read next year or not. Dang that dude can write
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Aug 3, 2021 19:48
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KKKLIP ART posted:Now I just have to decide if I’m doing a Mistborn re-read next year or not. Dang that dude can write I really liked Mistborn my first time through but really fell in love during the reread.
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Aug 3, 2021 19:55
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Sixth of Dusk is a cool book too, with a sequel in the works that, going by the excerpt Brandon read awhile back, should be the last book people read in the Cosmere setting out of current and upcoming books. e: I want a proper series set on Threnody. Evil Fluffy fucked around with this message at 19:59 on Aug 3, 2021 |
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Aug 3, 2021 19:57
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Another aspect of Wax and Wayne that is jarring if coming straight from the Mistborn trilogy: tone. I feel it is like an Alien -> Aliens situation. The Mistborn trilogy is dark, gritty, filled with death, chaos, and dystopian hopelessness. Not to say there aren’t jokes occasionally, but the series has a constant undercurrent of dread. Obviously, not to the extent that some other fantasy series are, but still they fit that mold. Meanwhile, Wax and Wayne feels like I jumped into an Indiana Jones film or an Uncharted game. It feels more like an action adventure romp with witty banter where Wax is the straight man and Wayne is comic relief. It feels weird. I really like it, but it is definitely taking time to get used to the tone. I feel like a perfect example of this is a moment I just go in the book - ”The tea is poisoned.” *Wayne falls over* That was a good surprise. I feel like, thus far, Wax and Wayne would be far easier to make into a live action film than the original trilogy.
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Aug 4, 2021 00:44
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Paul W.S. Anderson would do it and Milla Jovovich would play Steris. This is the way the world works.
MartingaleJack fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Aug 4, 2021 |
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Aug 4, 2021 02:42
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Torrannor posted:The lowering of stakes is what makes the series work, imho. I mean, you can't realistically raise the stakes when previously, the whole planet was in serious danger of being destroyed. Basic survival (especially as a skaa) was a daily struggle. But Hero of Ages had a proper ending where these problems were solved (more or less), and so it feels natural that people overall live much easier lives than the previous generations. It makes sense for the star wars settings not to change a lot personally given how advanced they already are, not a lot of new science left to discover there, just changes in doctrine and refinement of existing stuff. The amount of breakneck change we, our parents and grandparents experienced during our lives is not normal state of things when looked at from a larger perspective. And more likely than not some day the rate of change will slow down again and society will become less changing. The more we discover the harder it's to reach the next big change and there is just less to discover that would be ground shaking and disruptive. Which is probably good. I look forward to a culture-like situation where a personal car/shuttle can be over a millenia old instead of new ones all the time.
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Aug 4, 2021 09:13
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His Divine Shadow posted:It makes sense for the star wars settings not to change a lot personally given how advanced they already are, not a lot of new science left to discover there, just changes in doctrine and refinement of existing stuff. Fair enough for sci-fi settings, although there are some things to quibble with in that regard as well. But often enough there's little to no justification for fantasy settings. It's obvious why the Final Empire didn't change much (though it still saw the invention of canned food at least), the Lord Ruler suppressed nearly all development. But other settings often enough have competing states/societies/races, it's inconceivable that there's no scientific progress even with magic to help lessen the burdens of everyday life (if magic is employed for such needs at all, instead of just being the tools of the powerful/elite). And we can see the metallic arts being used by people selling their talents for those who can afford them, soothers and rioters partly replacing psychologists or drug dealers for example. But that still didn't stop the rapid technological advancement. And why should they? Some people using steelpushes to move extremely fast doesn't replace trains, of course. And guns are much more effective at equalizing the power between metalborn and normal Scadrians than obsidian knives or wooden shields could ever be.
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Aug 4, 2021 12:48
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The primary obstacle to technological progress is easy access to energy. Once people figured out how to harness coal for energy, the industrial revolution really got going. Sanderson's magic systems are, by design, a way to harness energy. It makes sense that their change of technology would be rapid since it doesn't take as much effort to get over the energy hurdle.
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Aug 4, 2021 13:51
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OPAONI posted:The primary obstacle to technological progress is easy access to energy. Once people figured out how to harness coal for energy, the industrial revolution really got going. Sanderson's magic systems are, by design, a way to harness energy. It makes sense that their change of technology would be rapid since it doesn't take as much effort to get over the energy hurdle. yeah and, compared to Scadrial, Roshar has nothing but magic and lots of crabs
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Aug 4, 2021 14:13
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eke out posted:yeah and, compared to Scadrial, Roshar has nothing but magic and lots of crabs Crabs are a prime energy source 
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Aug 4, 2021 16:19
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DarkHorse posted:Crabs are a prime energy source look if navani can figure out how to turn chitin into oil they're going to be all set
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Aug 4, 2021 16:21
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Watch the last half of stormlight be like a police procedural cosmere MacGuyver, rigging cremlings to fabrials and poo poo. I will jerry rig those gadgets I cannot plan out in advance.
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Aug 4, 2021 16:24
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When I started Wax and Wayne, there was one thing I wanted more than anything else - A fight on top of a moving train. Brandon doesn’t disappoint.
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Aug 4, 2021 18:06
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eke out posted:look if navani can figure out how to turn chitin into oil they're going to be all set Chiri-chiri the larkin can basically turn fantasy oil into chitin so the reverse should be doable
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Aug 4, 2021 18:24
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My only complaint with W&W1, thus far, is that sometimes it leans a little too hard into the quips and jokes. It gets a little grating at times.
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Aug 4, 2021 22:23
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Mordiceius posted:My only complaint with W&W1, thus far, is that sometimes it leans a little too hard into the quips and jokes. It gets a little grating at times. i believe the first w/w is the origin of "brandon gets on a plane and accidentally writes a novella" jokes you'll see i feel like it initially very much has that vibe, and then as they progress he kinda realizes oh i like these characters and they can actually be important in my larger plot instead of just a sidequest
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Aug 4, 2021 22:25
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eke out posted:i believe the first w/w is the origin of "brandon gets on a plane and accidentally writes a novella" jokes you'll see Yeah. I mean I really like the book and it definitely captures the “action adventure film” vibe you’d get from something like the 1999 Mummy film (of which I know Sanderson is a fan). Hell, I could see a young Rachel Weiss playing Marasi.
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Aug 4, 2021 22:35
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I bet Sanderson really liked Will Smith’s Wild Wild West film.
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Aug 5, 2021 00:24
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BananaNutkins posted:Paul W.S. Anderson would do it and Milla Jovovich would play Steris. This is the way the world works. I'm sorry but Cate Blanchett is the only one that play Steris.
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Aug 5, 2021 01:34
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Mordiceius posted:I bet Sanderson really liked Will Smith’s Wild Wild West film. Are you trying to suggest this is a bad movie The pinnacle of modern cinema
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Aug 5, 2021 01:52
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Sab669 posted:Are you trying to suggest this is a bad movie It doesn't matter how one feels about Kevin Smith but his story about Superman and Wild Wild West is a killer story, we need a John Peters produced W&W
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Aug 5, 2021 05:43
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Okay, so I have finished The Alloy of Law. Ended up having a lot of downtime at work today and cruised through the last third of the audio book. I feel like this was the most cinematic of the stories of his I've read thus far. If I was trying to pitch it in comparison to films, it would be "The style/comedy of Wild Wild West with the action of John Wick." Overall, the story was incredibly breezy. I think this is a combination of the story's length and the story's scope. I feel like Sanderson is great with shorter works - not that I want his stories to all be short. I don't feel like The Final Empire or Hero of Ages would have worked at less than half their length. But after making it through some more "epic" fantasy, this felt like a refreshing respite. Now for the spoilery part. I plan on rambling through this as I don't have my thoughts in any specific order. - I enjoyed Wax as a character. I liked Marasi. Wayne, at times, I found incredibly annoying. He had his good moments "The wine is poisoned" got a hearty laugh from me. But I feel like he was a little too quipy and quirky. It got exhausting at points. Steris, I know becomes a more major character, but she was barely in this book. I worry about Marasi. I've been watching Sanderson's youtube updates and at points he mentioned writing Steris' point of view but there was no mention of Marasi. I'm worried she's gonna get killed off. The new setting was just weird to experience. I enjoyed it but it just felt odd whenever I'd think of this as the same setting as the original trilogy. I'm assuming we'll see the Roughs more in later books because we didn't really see them in this book. That was a minor disappointment. I wanted to see the Roughs. Miles is basically Magneto. He was a great character. I was sad he got killed off. When he was arrested, I thought the book would end with him in prison and we'd get to revisit him in a later book. I feel like Mr. Suit being Wax's uncle wasn't hard to figure out. "I was able to put together this family tree connecting the kidnapped women because my uncle had a lot of books on genealogy." The women being kidnapped to be breeders was kinda gross. Could have done without that. It felt a little out of place with the rest of the tone. I loved seeing the Twinborn powers and look forward to seeing more of those as the series goes on. So I guess the rest of the series is about Trell and the Illuminati? Was very intrigued when Miles mentioned "the final metal" whatever the gently caress that means. The epilogue was great. Liked seeing Marsh again. Overall, I enjoyed it a lot. My spoilery thoughts may seem negative, but it's more that those were the things that kind of stood out to me a little bit. Other than that, I just really enjoyed my time. CURRENT SANDERSON RANKINGS - The Final Empire The Hero of Ages The Alloy of Law The Emperor’s Soul The Well of Ascension Elantris The Hope of Elantris
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Aug 5, 2021 06:43
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Yeah, Brandon's shorter stories can be really good. Most people itt think Emperor's Soul is his best book, period. The W&W books definitely profit from not being 1000 pages long doorstoppers. I won't comment on your spoilers. I'll definitely have more to say when you finish The Bands of Mourning. I quite like Alloy of Law, but I think it's a bit weaker than Shadows of Self. Wayne is still funny but becomes much less annoying, imho. So you have that to look forward to.
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Aug 5, 2021 06:52
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Torrannor posted:Wayne is still funny but becomes much less annoying, imho. So you have that to look forward to. That's great. I feel like some of it was Brandon trying too hard in this book. It felt very much like "Hey, I just discovered the MCU and now this character is a neverending joke machine. That's how you know he's funny!" Nice thing about these books being so short is I'm going just churn right through them. And then the long wait until the 4th book.
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Aug 5, 2021 07:00
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So do we cast Keanu Reeves as Hoid?
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Aug 5, 2021 14:38
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M_Gargantua posted:So do we cast Keanu Reeves as Hoid? Paul Rudd
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Aug 5, 2021 15:14
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I just wanna point out I have no problem with Milla Jovovich being in anything and I can't understand why anybody would. That lady is awesome.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:27
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Milla Jovovich as Lessie. Young Rachel Weiss as Marasi Cate Blanchett as Steris
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Aug 5, 2021 15:29
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ron perlman as dalinar e: danny devito as wayne
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Aug 5, 2021 16:11
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