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Do you prefer the extended summer thread format? This poll is closed. |
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Soricidus posted:Indeed I came dangerously close to terfdom by a similar route. I’d constructed this nice simple philosophy where gender didn’t exist at all; trans people were awkward for me because if gender doesn’t exist then how can it be trans? So I kind of didn’t want trans people to be real for a while. The thing that saved me was that I listened and accepted that they were real and therefore I needed to change my beliefs, whereas terfs just double down on the denial. I had a lot of trouble initially because I couldn't, and still can't really, understand the concept of a gender identity. Like I can explain what other people have described them as but I don't think I have one? For me growing up, and still today, that I am a man (though that is feeling increasingly wrong to say of late though I can't put my finger on why) is entirely because other people think I am one. I don't really want to be one or feel that I am one, but I look like one without any effort and everyone else wants me to be one, so I guess I am one, what else would I be? I definitely don't like some of the associations of that but I am not sure I could pull off anything else and I also don't seem to have the strong drive towards being anything else that other people report. Mostly I have a bunch of things I don't want to be, but nothing I feel a particular affinity towards. So i guess it's like a sort of... negative identity? I don't feel like I am anything but I do sometimes feel that I don't want to be things (I don't know if there is a word for this or whether it is A Thing) That seems at odds with how a lot of people feel though, cis or trans, but I thought that was just how everyone was for the longest time, so the idea of having any sort of internal feeling about who and what you are took a long time for me to be able to grasp, even second hand. So I got stuck for quite a while trying to understand the concept of internally identifying as not just a different gender than you were assigned, but any at all. I still don't know what that is like but I think now I can see that other people plainly do experience it because nothing else explains why they go through all the trouble to become who they are. Certainly I can't imagine having that kind of dedication in the face of that much adversity. That most people experience some internal spark that informs who they are, and which I simply lack, would explain that difference. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:44 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 16:41
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While i really do appreciate their inadvertent acceleration of a peaceful & democratic Irish reunification (all in good time) i also want the head of every single sitting Tory MP on a pike for all the suffering they have caused throughout the UK due to their greed and selfishness. 
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Aug 5, 2021 17:05
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Yeah. It's probably just as strange to me why some people find the concept of gender identity so unknowable, given the role it's played in my life. Like, "it's right *there*" :v Left wing politics is great for empathy but there's empathising and understanding, you know? I've always said something like you can't isolate the feeling in that spot, about a millimeter wide, midway between the ball of your foot and your big toe no matter how hard you concentrate on it. But if you have a stone in your shoe that presses there, you feel it very keenly. It's not a great image, it tends to make people think about dysphoria, but really I just mean, you know, there are some things that unless you feel them you don't necessarily see that they're there at all.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:16
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lol Thatcher was doing us all a service. https://twitter.com/andrewlearmonth/status/1423304036225331200
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Aug 5, 2021 17:16
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Looking at the covid figures, it appears the post Euro-2020-National-Superspreader-Month decline is over and we're entering the new 'Mission Accomplished' wave phase...
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Aug 5, 2021 17:17
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Pablo Bluth posted:Looking at the covid figures, it appears the post Euro-2020-National-Superspreader-Month decline is over and we're entering the new 'Mission Accomplished' wave phase... It's interesting that we're now seeing a decline right when we would expect to see a big increase after "Freedom Day". I think a lot of restaurants/pubs/shops have still required masks and social distancing where possible which helps with that. The death rate is (steadily) climbing though which is the big concern.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:23
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I see Sunak is thinking of flogging parcels of secondary debt and 'encouraging' pension funds to invest in more 'speculative' ventures. 2022 Banking Crash II: Godzilla meets the CDOs. Can Bruce 'Boris Johnson' Willis in nothing but a vest to cover his fine 'sack of custard' physique get the girl and save the day? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A25EUhZGBws
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Aug 5, 2021 17:37
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EvilHawk posted:It's interesting that we're now seeing a decline right when we would expect to see a big increase after "Freedom Day". I think a lot of restaurants/pubs/shops have still required masks and social distancing where possible which helps with that.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:41
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happyhippy posted:They should do a documentary just following Pig Fucker around. We already know what David does day to day. He goes out and falls for obvious money laundering schemes because someone came up to him and said a bunch of "Wiz Bang" phrases to him and gets paid handsomely for it. And then he cranks one out with a bacon rasher as a cum sock.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:44
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I see Sunak is thinking of flogging parcels of secondary debt and 'encouraging' pension funds to invest in more 'speculative' ventures. This is giving me ''Financial crisis of 2007–2008'' vibes.... ''Danger Will Robinson!''
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Aug 5, 2021 17:45
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I feel like solving welfare funding by betting all the future social spending on red is not a very good idea, but I am not the chancellor.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:47
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EvilHawk posted:It's interesting that we're now seeing a decline right when we would expect to see a big increase after "Freedom Day". I think a lot of restaurants/pubs/shops have still required masks and social distancing where possible which helps with that. There was a two week gap between cases and hospitalisations and again between hospitalisations and deaths so that's expected. I think Delta + the football caused this big first spike which kind of knocked a lot of the irresponsible keenness out of people and once the actual football was done they cooled off a lot more than they otherwise might have done. We've now reached the point where normal resumption of activities would have taken us to anyway and so will plateau or start rising again until the schools start where things will definitely start rising again. That said the change in the LSHTM forecasts between June and July were amazing - a huge decrease in hospitalisations and deaths (although the best case scenario still have 10,000 deaths) so long as people don't immediately start rushing into nightclubs and spitting in each others mouths. Quite a few of those would still be preventable by more protective measures being in place but the odds of uncontrollable escalation are hopefully much more unlikely.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:53
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namesake posted:That said the change in the LSHTM forecasts between June and July were amazing - a huge decrease in hospitalisations and deaths (although the best case scenario still have 10,000 deaths) so long as people don't immediately start rushing into nightclubs and spitting in each others mouths. Quite a few of those would still be preventable by more protective measures being in place but the odds of uncontrollable escalation are hopefully much more unlikely. Yeah, bad news there. Some of my friend are literally going clubbing this weekend.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:58
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OwlFancier posted:I had a lot of trouble initially because I couldn't, and still can't really, understand the concept of a gender identity. There's more evidence that gender identity has some kind of physiological basis, but whether that's significant or not depends who you're asking, and it's not like there's no overlap anyway. Mattie Lubchansky's absurdist takes on the idea seem to make more sense to me than half of the 'official' ones banded around in the UK at present. 
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Aug 5, 2021 18:03
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Guavanaut posted:Same I think, but I guess that puts it into the accent/ideology framework where you only notice it when it clashes against somebody else's idea of what that should be. I tried to figure out what pronouns I would prefer if you asked me and I continue to struggle to pick any if I'm actually trying to pick something I think reflects my own thoughts. The idea that I keep coming back to is I just want other people to pick them, they seem intrinsically to be a thing imposed from without, describing a concept that only exists because I live in a society. If I didn't live in a society I wouldn't have any, and as I do live in a society everyone just assumes the same ones (except kids, funnily) and that's OK if a bit boring. They're only there for you anyway so they might as well be something you like the sound of. Having a lot of other baggage associated with them does grate a bit though yeah. The challenge is to try and present the things I would like to present working around all that.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:12
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Reminds me of how I only recently identified myself as asexual. I've never been sexually attracted to anyone in the way people talk about, and I've spent my whole life thinking well, I haven't met the right person, or maybe I'm gay? but no, women neither, or maybe I just have a low sex drive, that's all right, and then only very recently did I think, maybe that just doesn't exist for me. That's all right! But it's odd. I guess the desire to have sex with somebody is actually real and not just something people are making up for movies and TV shows. I dunno. Feels all right but I've had a really strange year, identity-wise.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:24
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Even if people aren't persuaded by basic human decency to make accomodations for LGBTQ+ needs, the thoughts that are produced by people with those needs getting together and talking about their lives and experiences IMO are extremely widely applicable to people who might not even have had the thought that they could benefit from a better understanding of themselves. So that IMO is a really good argument against this lovely desire some people have to just control everything, control people's lives, their sense of self, their thoughts, their ideas, all of it is just putting lead weights on what iis (and I will fight people about this) the only good and practical philosophy being done. poo poo you can actually use and apply to yourself and be better for it. But of course I'm sure the sort of people who want to put a stop to all that are also intrinsically hostile to the idea that they could possibly understand themselves better.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:35
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HopperUK posted:Reminds me of how I only recently identified myself as asexual. I've never been sexually attracted to anyone in the way people talk about, and I've spent my whole life thinking well, I haven't met the right person, or maybe I'm gay? but no, women neither, or maybe I just have a low sex drive, that's all right, and then only very recently did I think, maybe that just doesn't exist for me. That's all right! But it's odd. I guess the desire to have sex with somebody is actually real and not just something people are making up for movies and TV shows. I dunno. Feels all right but I've had a really strange year, identity-wise. One of my friends in her 60s has never had more than the odd grope behind the bushes when a little the worse for drink, never really had the hots for anyone (except Freddie Mercury and James Mason), just not interested. It's a perfectly valid state of existence. It annoys me when everyone who gets interviewed for anything always feeled compelled to say whatever fantastic mega-achievement that they've just achieved 'of course it's not better than sex'. Hm. I made the mistake of telling an insecure boyfriend once that the O that set me on fire and burned me up and lasted 3 weeks when solving a particularly difficult cosmology problem after 60 hours hard labour at the equations was far superior to anything achieved under the bed sheets!   
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Aug 5, 2021 19:15
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I definitely have a libido to some degree, but never really wanted to share it with anyone, and the thought of doing so mostly makes me feel kinda stressed. Plus I have absolutely no natural reaction to the things people do or say when they're trying to seduce you, they just say things and I can either think of something funny to respond with, or I've got nothing. I don't know if it's actual asexuality or me being an introvert, but either way I can apparently live without porking other people. 
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Aug 5, 2021 19:26
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Your lesbian dad here, one of the most important things Cis people need to get their head round is that only trans people know how it feels to be trans, and we need to be super careful not to talk over and for the trans community no matter if we are LGBT+ ourselves. The best thing to do is amplify and listen on the internet. But not just that, words words words blah blah blah. Trans women, especially younger ones, are at huge risk of homelessness with an added kick in the teeth that more often than not they end up without the ID needed to get emergency housing, and the catch 22 is they need an address to send the new ID to. So if you see a desperate trans woman on Twitter, don’t just hit like or comment with a “I hope you get help”. Ask her “how can I help? I have a sofa” and save a life. For Bella, no one was online when she called for help, and for many of us that will be a regret we carry with us till we die.
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Aug 5, 2021 19:31
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I am too sexy for my shirt.
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Aug 5, 2021 19:34
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I am too sexy for my shirt.
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Aug 5, 2021 19:58
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I made the mistake of telling an insecure boyfriend once that the O that set me on fire and burned me up and lasted 3 weeks when solving a particularly difficult cosmology problem after 60 hours hard labour at the equations was far superior to anything achieved under the bed sheets! I think sex is fun but back when I used to do creative stuff, the feeling you get when you enter a flow state and you're just getting enormous amounts of progress done on a project is certainly better I think, it's probably the closest thing I would describe to a spiritual experience.
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Aug 5, 2021 21:32
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OwlFancier posted:I think sex is fun but back when I used to do creative stuff. What stuff did you do?
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Aug 5, 2021 21:40
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Lol https://twitter.com/deccamitford/status/1423306460969189376 TL; DR the Spectator got rolled.
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Aug 5, 2021 21:41
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I like having boring mostly missionary sex with ladies, well, one lady. I've kissed a couple blokes over the years in the spirit of being a Mad Lad but it was very uninteresting so I reckon I'm just a boring low-Kinsey score cis male until further notice.
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Aug 5, 2021 21:50
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NotJustANumber99 posted:I am too sexy for my shirt. Does it hurt?
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Aug 5, 2021 21:51
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Comrade Fakename posted:Lol Wokeyleaks. Jesus christ.
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Aug 5, 2021 21:52
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Comrade Fakename posted:Lol While it's pretty funny that the Spectator got egg on their face over this, it's a bit poo poo that Rashford had to suffer the stress of a made up story about him being imminently published.
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Aug 5, 2021 22:09
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Party Boat posted:While it's pretty funny that the Spectator got egg on their face over this, it's a bit poo poo that Rashford had to suffer the stress of a made up story about him being imminently published. Personally, I think the guy that set up Rashford like this is a scumbag. I'm just imagining the horrible sick, knotted feelings in Rashford's chest and stomach, the sleepless nights, stress and so forth of false accusations. Maybe I'm projecting my own feelings of having been accused of things I haven't done but that's bad enough. But yeah, the Spec should have done better research on the truth of the story - but you can't expect that from a fascist rag.
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Aug 5, 2021 22:22
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Hey friends, y'all been posting about gender identity again so I've been trying to think about the subject As a dumb cishet bastard, I can't claim to really know anything about gender identity issues, but I feel like my original stupid way of thinking about them is probably quite widespread. It seems that in many cases the default way people think about this stuff is simple: gender = sex and sex = gender. That seems to explain a lot of the "gender critical" bullshit. As one example of this kind of default "thinking", there's this Monty Python sketch. One character keeps interrupting the others to make sure they say "himself or herself" and so on, rather than just "himself". They ask him why he keeps banging on about women's rights and women, and he replies "I want to be one". This is clearly meant to be a ridiculous thing. The character is a man, he was born that way, he's got the manly bits and also the manly gender; how could he possibly be a woman? The underlying default "thought" becomes even clearer in the next few lines when he goes on to say "I want to have babies", i.e. he wants to give birth. This is ridiculous since he doesn't have a womb. Both things are equally ridiculous here, the gender and the sex, because they are identical in this view. He was born with manly bits, therefore he presents as a man, both of these facts mean that he's a man, that's what "man" means, both sex and gender two-in-one as it were. The end. I can relate to this sentiment, since my own brain for so many decades worked in exactly the same way. Ever since I started growing up I remember my brain automatically sorting anybody and everybody by gender, and in case of woman, continuing to think that "oh hey, theoretically I might create some babies with this one". I mean, my brain was telling me that "woman" literally means "someone that I, as a cis het man, can theoretically procreate with". Gender is sex, sex is gender. There's no actual thought involved, rather this kind of classification would happen automatically somewhere in the subconscious. I suspect this kind of thing is pretty common in the general population, especially if you've never given it much thought; it requires thought to get out of this trap. This only really clicked for me recently, a few years ago, when I read a certain novel. Without wanting to spoil anything, there's a certain character, some young guy, and then after the plot proceeds a bit, some 50 years later (or whatever) there are all these other characters and one of them this old wise woman. And then it turns out that actually these are the same character: this old lady used to be a guy, was born a man, but transitioned at some point (maybe in their thirties). Guess what? This character's genitals never enter the story. Whatever happened, or didn't happen, with their naughty bits doesn't feature at all. It's simply not relevant to the story. Old lady is old lady, and that's it. The end! And thinking about it a bit further, this is how it actually works in real life too, isn't it? Despite my dumb brain telling me to evaluate every woman-presenting person ever for potential offspring-making, first of all, everybody's biology isn't really my business now is it. Second, even if I'm looking for a partner right now, there's no reason to worry about all of the hundreds of women when I'm just walking down the street, brain could take a rest for a while, time and place etc. And third, even on the occasion of going on a date with someone and all of that, there's no need to jump right into the genitals, like how about getting a coffee first or something. Conscious thought here is, ideally, the part that goes "ok hold on, just chill, let's maybe figure this out". It's very easy to suffer from this "default brain", where the brain, by its nature as it is, uses all kinds of crude and inaccurate shortcuts to evaluate various situations and people. No actual thought occurs, it's just the brain on automatic. You need conscious thought to fix the worst weirdnesses and misconceptions that your brain keeps pumping into your head.
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Aug 5, 2021 23:52
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There is a reason that terves are often described as being simply obsessed with other people's junk, because they do seem to give it an inordinate amount of attention for people who go around calling everyone else sex perverts. As you say though, just... don't worry about it, it's much easier to just not have conniptions about other people's hypothetical trouser contraband. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 23:57
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OwlFancier posted:There is a reason that terves are often described as being simply obsessed with other people's junk, because they do seem to give it an inordinate amount of attention for people who go around calling everyone else sex perverts. I've said this before, but it's that level of effort that so baffles me about the louder end of the transphobe spectrum. They just go to such incredible lengths to find something lovely to say or do, to the point of destroying their reputations and careers, and get so loving angry about situations that exist entirely in their own heads. Linehan, to name the most egregious example, could have just shut the gently caress up at any point in the last few years and everyone would have eventually forgotten about him, and lived the rest of his life as the slightly stuffy I loving LOVE SCIENCE guy who puts out serviceable sitcoms. It can't even be explained by the normal mechanics of living in an echo chamber and overcompensating for other issues - the point when his own brother in law called him out (and he jumped all over a completely unrelated tweet from one of his best friends in a paranoid frenzy) should have caused at least some reflection, but nope, he just dived in deeper and deeper and deeper. I mean gently caress it the hbomb stream was probably the hardest online beatdown imaginable, and the sheer scope of it should have made him pause, but nope, more bridges to be burned, more relationships to ruin, just because someone mildly criticised a script he wrote over a decade ago.
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Aug 6, 2021 00:20
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I was thinking about it earlier today because filling up cereal doesn't really engage the brain much. And I think something I should have added to an earlier post is that in addition to them thinking they're fighting some noble crusade to defend something worth defending, they also put a lot of work into parsing the disagreement people take with them as evidence they are correct about their oppression by Big Trans or whatever. Like they just cannot fathom that they're being assholes, and there's this perverse bit of mental gymnastics going on where the actual thing they're complaining about doesn't exist, but when people point that out, that's then parsed as the thing they're complaining about. Like they're wrong and stupid and people noticing that they're wrong and stupid is bullying them which is evidence they're right. So loving tiresome. Linehan specifically I have to believe is just some sort of pain piggy at this point but I think for some of the slightly less far gone types, the "you saying I am wrong only proves I am not" loop is what keeps them going. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 00:28 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 6, 2021 00:26
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:Personally, I think the guy that set up Rashford like this is a scumbag. I'm just imagining the horrible sick, knotted feelings in Rashford's chest and stomach, the sleepless nights, stress and so forth of false accusations. yeah, my feeling is the author is a loving scumbag congratulations we've now finally established that the spectator is a racist fanzine with zero journalistic standards for all the world to see, and I'm sure this will have meaningful consequences such as some lib blue ticks laughing at them also that article is far too long and far too poorly written for me to bother trying to read the whole thing, but they're clearly convinced that they're an extremely clever person, between all the elaborate similes and whatever the gently caress this is quote:I thought it had been fairly obvious but perhaps I expect too much. I mean I’d included references in the fake emails to various wits, whether they be Felix Dexter, Delarivier Manley or Jonathan Swift. (Plus my email avatar was a portrait of Swift’s companion Vanessa, and my initials were “JS”). otoh apparently they're behind this incredibly well observed and frighteningly funny parody account so maybe they're not just some disgusting lib moron who thought a prominent black footballer was acceptable collateral damage in their parlour game with some of the fashiest people in the British media https://twitter.com/CorbynSuperFan/status/1297501795967795200?s=19 Ever since my Corbyn satire was taken seriously by outraged Labour members, I've worried about the party's lack of humour
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Aug 6, 2021 00:48
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i like having nookie w/ men 
crispix fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 6, 2021 00:53
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XMNN posted:yeah, my feeling is the author is a loving scumbag
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Aug 6, 2021 01:25
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crispix posted:i like having nookie w/ men  forkboy84 posted:I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or actually think this parody is funny? That's on me Hold down the button on the side of your sarcasm detector for ten seconds to complete factory reset
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Aug 6, 2021 02:29
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OwlFancier posted:I had a lot of trouble initially because I couldn't, and still can't really, understand the concept of a gender identity. https://twitter.com/swarm_trans/status/1422818688206581760?s=19 I think mostly I'm too old and so very tired of conflict to publically do anything, but it's also that I think I'd be a lot less safe as a woman, particularly as a trans woman. Maybe in the last city I lived in, less so here. I don't even know if being femme would be any better or just as bad in the opposite direction. I certainly don't feel like a guy. I'm used to male pronouns, but I have always hated being passed off to the guy group when my wife takes me places. I get on better with women. I always put it down to just not liking football, (even though I do sort of like watching it sometimes, just not the culture around it); also being generally more reserved, non-competitive, extremely nonagressive, not liking being lovely to each other for no reason. I had Feelings™ when my friend group found faceapp and we started posting femme pics of each other. I saved a bunch of mine to my phone and look at them and think about the Hbomberguy stream talking about gender euphoria. I keep following people because I think they're cool who later come out as trans. I got even feelingser watching Abby Thorn's coming out video, particularly when she walks in and just looks so loving happy. I also seem to find I've been doing various egg things whenever I see posts like this: https://twitter.com/emilyvdw/status/1403048159182426113?s=19 Finally an alarming amount of people who have pets who hate / avoid men have remarked how unusual it is that they like me, including the old matriarch of her pack who plonked herself down next to me and rested her head on my shoulder, and this was long before I started thinking seriously about any of this. It would be entirely in keeping with my life thus far for a loving dog to clock me before I did. 2. Twisto, the latest bonus episode of Trashfuture about Cumbernauld and brutalism feels like extremely your vibe.
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Aug 6, 2021 02:51
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First time anyone has ever taken anything related to Cumbernauld and recommended it to someone (except the bus out of there I guess)
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Aug 6, 2021 02:56
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