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Aug 5, 2021 18:22
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I love the whole local economies thing and sphere's being replaced by markets. What I haven't seen really mentioned is how trade between markets will work. The markets are all quite small and local, mostly national at the start. If the UK has a ton of sugar and a shortage of furniture, and France has a ton of furniture and a desperate need for sugar surely there must be a way to strike up a trade? But having to do this through a manual trade-offer type deal like setting up a deal in Stellaris or something would be a pain. Perhaps there will be some way of having trade treaties between market leaders? Not to join the market, but to agree to limited trade of certain goods between them? So in the example above, France could send a request to the UK for a Sugar trade agreement, meaning the French market could send buy orders to the UK market for sugar along with all the infrastructure and transport costs. UK would then weigh the money income from the trade deal vs helping France fuel its own economy. Inter-market trade is something I've been really interested from the start. A global market in the time period didn't make a ton of sense in previous games, but totally isolated national markets also doesn't make sense for the time period.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:32
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PittTheElder posted:If anything this economy makes too much sense! How will we have a great depression now?! That's DLC content. And yes, I shall preorder it.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:32
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  if you put these two images side by side you can actually see that it's apparently cheaper to buy luxury furniture than regular furniture in this market
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Aug 5, 2021 18:39
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DaysBefore posted:A complex economy that actually makes sense and won't stop functioning for no reason? This rules
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Aug 5, 2021 18:44
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Takanago posted:
50 big macs more expensive than steak
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Aug 5, 2021 18:45
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Look it's France, they just really love their artisanal chairs. IKEA would like to sell more basic furniture, but all the factory space is being bought up to make more artisanal chairs. Although looking at the pictures that seems like a really temporary situation anyway, Luxury Furniture is being way overproduced which is why the price is low so barring player intervention the price will keep dropping until it becomes unprofitable and supply starts dropping due to factories swapping over to make regular furniture which is massively underproduced. Edit: Well..actually shouldn't poor pops furniture demands have swapped over to luxury furniture then if it's so available and cheaper? Substitutes are supposed to be possible. Zeron fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 18:51
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Takanago posted:
How much could an apple cost? 25 pounds?
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Aug 5, 2021 18:52
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A Royale with Chairs
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Aug 5, 2021 18:54
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:A Royale with Chairs lmao
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Aug 5, 2021 19:14
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Victoria 3: A Royale with Chairs
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Aug 5, 2021 19:27
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Takanago posted:
If the "unit" of luxury furniture is smaller than the unit for regular furniture this could make sense. If you wanna go full LVT, everything else being equal an artisan should produce the same value of luxury furniture as regular furniture in a given amount of time, so as long as the labor inputs are the same this would be a plausible result. (Of course I'm probably totally wrong and this is just some weird poo poo with Vicky III's market model, but you know)
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Aug 5, 2021 19:53
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I mean if you don’t think the day one markets are going to be insane then you have never played a game with complex simulation elements
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Aug 5, 2021 19:59
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ThaumPenguin posted:Specifically they're by a guy whose bio describes him as a "professional Indie Grand Strategy Game Developer from Hungary", so lmao I didn't know Ubik moved to Hungary.
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Aug 5, 2021 20:05
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DrSunshine posted:It's interesting what they're saying here because if I understand it properly, the V3 economy is more similar to a modern-day economy than it is to the 19th century! This is a very welcome change, though I'm going to miss placing an order on 1/1/1836 for 1000 units of artillery.
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Aug 5, 2021 20:57
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean if you don’t think the day one markets are going to be insane then you have never played a game with complex simulation elements This is why you have model spin ups!! Paradox ought to hire someone with experience throwing numerical simulations together.
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Aug 5, 2021 21:05
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Man how would you even model something like the Depression. It had such specific causes that happened in such a particular way I can't see it being able to add in as an RNG thing
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Aug 5, 2021 22:30
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DaysBefore posted:Man how would you even model something like the Depression. It had such specific causes that happened in such a particular way I can't see it being able to add in as an RNG thing There could probably be things in there like certain technologies that incentivize pops to behave in a certain way re: the market that would lead to a massive crash, although that would probably be a bit too deterministic. They could also approach it from the other side of things where instead of forcing a depression to happen, it just has certain things it watches for and if the market gets particularly bad it dynamically labels the era as a "depression". Sort of like how in Victoria 2 wars that involved multiple great powers on either side after a certain date would automatically become "Great Wars".
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Aug 5, 2021 22:43
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I guess but that doesn't touch on the Dustbowl. I can't imagine a dynamic system that takes in to account the devestation of food supplies in Europe, models overproduction in America to compensate, then depletes the soil roughly in time for the biggest stock market disaster in history.
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Aug 5, 2021 22:57
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Baronjutter posted:I love the whole local economies thing and sphere's being replaced by markets. One of the dev replies said that import/export will be a topic for a future diary.
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Aug 5, 2021 23:11
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DaysBefore posted:Man how would you even model something like the Depression. It had such specific causes that happened in such a particular way I can't see it being able to add in as an RNG thing The great depression would be really hard to do, since it relied so much on national post-war finances and the treaties the great powers had with each over their national debts/reparations. But for other depressions, you only need a way for the population to lose their minds in a hype bubble for a decade before it all pops. Panic of 1873 was only one of many, many bubble driven depressions that occurred during this time period. The Great Depression might need special events, but the system should be able to produce the Panic of 1857, or the Panic of 1893.
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Aug 5, 2021 23:18
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golden bubble posted:The great depression would be really hard to do, since it relied so much on national post-war finances and the treaties the great powers had with each over their national debts/reparations. But for other depressions, you only need a way for the population to lose their minds in a hype bubble for a decade before it all pops. Panic of 1873 was only one of many, many bubble driven depressions that occurred during this time period. The Great Depression might need special events, but the system should be able to produce the Panic of 1857, or the Panic of 1893. But pops don't speculate, or do any kind of forecasting at all for that matter. They just buy what they need at that moment. I think the only types of economic shock we see will come from shortages (not enough iron -> literally everything suffers), and sudden changes in pop fixation (we no longer want tea, we only want coffee -> massive crash for tea exporters and boom for coffee exporters)
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Aug 5, 2021 23:25
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Not even sure if the Great Depression is even worth including since it historically started with the stock market crash of 1929, seven years before the end date. I don't think the dev team is nihilistic enough to cripple your country's economy right by the end after you've built it up all game for no real reason. And small-to-major depressions may happen naturally as a process of the game.
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Aug 5, 2021 23:28
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Developer in the forum thread:quote:Base price setting is more art than science, but generally speaking Luxuries have a higher base price than Staples, manufactured goods cost more than resource goods, and high-tech goods cost more than low-tech goods.
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Aug 5, 2021 23:30
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trapped mouse posted:Not even sure if the Great Depression is even worth including since it historically started with the stock market crash of 1929, seven years before the end date. I don't think the dev team is nihilistic enough to cripple your country's economy right by the end after you've built it up all game for no real reason. And small-to-major depressions may happen naturally as a process of the game. Something akin to the Great Depression could have easily happened earlier though and its effects could have dramatic transformative/revolutionary ramifications for multiple nations. Also iirc the stockmarket crashed multiple times over the 19th century, just much smaller scale?
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Aug 5, 2021 23:51
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trapped mouse posted:Not even sure if the Great Depression is even worth including since it historically started with the stock market crash of 1929, seven years before the end date. I don't think the dev team is nihilistic enough to cripple your country's economy right by the end after you've built it up all game for no real reason. And small-to-major depressions may happen naturally as a process of the game. I would buy that if the Great Depression was the only major economic crash of this era but you also have the Long Depression (which was called the Great Depression until the one we call the Great Depression happened) as well as a hundred other smaller economic crashes.
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Aug 5, 2021 23:51
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Raenir Salazar posted:Something akin to the Great Depression could have easily happened earlier though and its effects could have dramatic transformative/revolutionary ramifications for multiple nations. Also iirc the stockmarket crashed multiple times over the 19th century, just much smaller scale? it did, the depression of 1873 lasted 20 years
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Aug 6, 2021 00:28
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I wish they didn't announce this game until it was just a couple months out. Waiting a year or more is brutal. I hate being excited about video games
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Aug 6, 2021 00:34
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I'm thankful for this weird mental state I'm in where I'm perfectly content just reading dev diaries and going "ho hum what a clever implementation!" and then somehow just moving on with my day without obsessively daydreaming about the playthroughs I wanna do. It's very odd.
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Aug 6, 2021 01:47
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Theres a bigass wad of panics and depressions before the big one too
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Aug 6, 2021 01:56
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World economy crashing because a majority of the worlds cotton fields are active warzones causing revolution in the UK
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Aug 6, 2021 02:16
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one of the interesting things in the long depression in the US was that it was basically caused by building too many railroads. freight rates collapsed from oversupply of freight capacity and with them the price of agricultural products ruining the industrialists and farmers simultaneously
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Aug 6, 2021 02:33
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i cant wait for the tno mod to port over to vicky 3
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Aug 6, 2021 03:14
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Raskolnikov38 posted:one of the interesting things in the long depression in the US was that it was basically caused by building too many railroads. freight rates collapsed from oversupply of freight capacity and with them the price of agricultural products ruining the industrialists and farmers simultaneously could you imagine if it was possible to build too many railroads in vicky 1 or 2
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Aug 6, 2021 03:20
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Takanago posted:could you imagine if it was possible to build too many railroads in vicky 1 or 2 Please no building railroads over literally the entire map is the only thing I live for
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Aug 6, 2021 03:21
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Food $200 Data $150 Rent $800 Trains $3,600 Utility $150 someone who is good at the economy please help me budget this. my country is dying
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Aug 6, 2021 03:34
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quote:In Victoria 3, a single unit of goods is produced and immediately sold at a price determined by how many consumers are willing to buy it at the moment of production. When this happens prices shift right away along with actual supply and demand, and trade between markets is modelled using Buy and Sell Orders. This more open economic model is both more responsive to sudden economic shifts and less prone to mysterious systemic failures where all the world’s cement might end up locked inside a warehouse in Missouri. Any stockpiling in the system is represented as cash (for example through a building’s Cash Reserves or a country’s Treasury) or as Pop Wealth, which forms the basis for Standard of Living and determines their level of consumption. fwiw this is basically one of the proposed solutions to the problem of domestic consumer goods in centralized planning: the price signal mechanism. Shift "willing to buy" to "how many people need this" and is a pretty clever model demonstration (which when used to simulate a capitalist market has the funny side-effect of COMMUNISM! solving microeconomics. lol)
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Aug 6, 2021 03:51
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fisk nearly cornered the gold market, who is to say my st. louis capitalists can't corner the cement market
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Aug 6, 2021 04:01
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Soylent Pudding posted:Food $200 Have you thought about taking the train less?
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Aug 6, 2021 04:14
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Raskolnikov38 posted:fisk nearly cornered the gold market, who is to say my st. louis capitalists can't corner the cement market poo poo, we have commodity cornering all the time right now through the futures market. manipulation tactics such as JPMorgan Chase commissioning containerships to make poo poo routes or even staying at open sea in order to get better prices edit: lotsa edits
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Aug 6, 2021 04:33
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