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Yeah, but I’d wager that Motronic was not commenting on the nationality of Tata. Throatwarbler turned Motronic’s quality observation into a racist one while implicitly suggesting that JagLandRover’s vehicles are, in fact, not low quality. I find this offensive because: 1. I do not believe Motronic was being racist in the first place and 2. I think that JLV cars do have quality issues So, in my view, Throatwarbler was just being combative without any substance. It’s duly grating. Anyways, I don’t wanna continue this. Posting about posting sucks rear end. Cars.
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Aug 5, 2021 14:58
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DNK posted:So, in my view, Throatwarbler was just being combative without any substance. Which is so typical it didn't warrant a response from me. Because the point of their response was to stir poo poo, not have a reasoned discussion.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:08
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DNK posted:[quote]while implicitly suggesting that JagLandRover’s vehicles are, in fact, not low quality. I would say it's pretty obvious he's suggesting that they had issues before being acquired by Tata, not that they don't have issues now. Hence the bankruptcy and getting passed around.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:11
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X-Type.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:12
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Queen Victorian posted:I don't like cars anymore. I get the sentiment, but it's really quite amazing how much more efficient and safer vehicles have become in the last 20 years. We have a 2020 Expedition as our family car right now. It gets like 22 MPG on the highway, has 375HP, 450ft lb of tq, a bajillion airbags, a poo poo ton of safety and tech features. Compare it to a 20 year old Expedition and it's quite remarkable how far things have come. Now there are a bunch of tradeoffs. In the quest for more efficient vehicles, powertrains have become more complex. Toyota still uses older tech that is not as efficient, but people know that drivetrain in their 4Runner is going to go over 200K miles with just routine maintenance. I'll be lucky to get 100K miles out of my Expedition engine before something major like cam phasers or the turbos let go. (Which is why I don't keep my cars long and tend to lease). Same thing with repairability. Cars are designed to be much safer these days, so they sacrifice themselves with crumple zones, and energy absorption areas to keep passengers safer. The trade off is they're not easily fixed anymore which increases repair costs. Ur Getting Fatter posted:I think they're implying Motronic is racist for thinking Jaguar/Land Rover were good until they got acquired by an Indian company. Did everyone forget that Ford owned them and churned out some of the worst Jaguars of all time? Tata has actually improved the brand in my opinion. Tata has owned the brand since 2008, so it's been a while now.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:40
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skipdogg posted:Did everyone forget that Ford owned them and churned out some of the worst Jaguars of all time? Tata has actually improved the brand in my opinion. Tata has owned the brand since 2008, so it's been a while now. I'm speaking of Land Rover specifically. They put out some garbage during the Ford times, nominally better reliability, which has always been a Land Rover issue. Then Tata bought them and their very first move was that lovely Evoque. A baffling little SUV with zero visibility out the back for a target demographic I don't think anyone has actually figured out. The designs and capabilities have just declined since then.
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Aug 5, 2021 15:45
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Doesn't the new Defender have generally positive reviews?
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Aug 5, 2021 15:54
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KillHour posted:Doesn't the new Defender have generally positive reviews? Even if it did they're hideous to look at. There's a few running around here already.
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Aug 5, 2021 16:11
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KillHour posted:Doesn't the new Defender have generally positive reviews? Automotive Journalist Doug Demuro™ has one and he's put like 20K miles on it already. Motronic posted:A baffling little SUV with zero visibility out the back for a target demographic I don't think anyone has actually figured out. The designs and capabilities have just declined since then. Oh I know the target demographic, there's quite a few running around where I'm at. When I moved here someone told me that San Antonio was the land of the 30,000/yr millionaire. You can extrapolate the rest.
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Aug 5, 2021 16:14
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IOwnCalculus posted:Even if it did they're hideous to look at. There's a few running around here already. I think they look great.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:35
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skipdogg posted:Oh I know the target demographic, there's quite a few running around where I'm at. When I moved here someone told me that San Antonio was the land of the 30,000/yr millionaire. You can extrapolate the rest. Yeah isn't the target demographic just someone that wants brand cachet as cheaply as possible I thought that was a fairly well understood and lucrative demographic
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Aug 5, 2021 17:36
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skipdogg posted:Did everyone forget that Ford owned them and churned out some of the worst Jaguars of all time? Tata has actually improved the brand in my opinion. Tata has owned the brand since 2008, so it's been a while now. Yeah, somehow everyone forgets how after 20 years of ownership, management and bankruptcy under British Leyland, LR stopped selling cars in the US in the 1970s because of how hilariously bad they were compared to the Japanese trucks coming to market. And the almost-decade of BMW ownership where they were stuffing E39 electronics and those dogshit Nikasil lined E39 V8 engines into Range Rovers. And the decade of Ford ownership starting with the Freelander, a unibody compact SUV with a dogshit transverse mounted (hmm?) Rover K series that leaked like a sieve while still on the assembly line. Nope, no one remembers any of that. But everyone somehow remembers the beginning of Tata ownership and the Evoque (a unibody compact SUV with a transverse mounted engine! Oh no!) as the point where Land Rover started going downhill. Wonder why that is.
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Aug 5, 2021 17:48
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skipdogg posted:I get the sentiment, but it's really quite amazing how much more efficient and safer vehicles have become in the last 20 years. We have a 2020 Expedition as our family car right now. It gets like 22 MPG on the highway, has 375HP, 450ft lb of tq, a bajillion airbags, a poo poo ton of safety and tech features. Compare it to a 20 year old Expedition and it's quite remarkable how far things have come. Heh, I was mostly just being whiny and melodramatic. I absolutely love my new truck, which compared to the old trucks I've driven is like a goddamn space ship. The cab is amazingly cushy and also highly functional (so many useful pockets, tie downs in the right places, easily foldable backseats, and actual good cup holders and poo poo) with 120v outlets and airbags everywhere, and it rides super smooth while the cab remains remarkably quiet. Also very good-looking in my opinion - fresh and modern but still very classic truck and not weird and extreme like whatever the hell Chevy is doing with the Silverado right now (at least the Sierra still looks good and normal). Overall it is a bright spot in my presently dim outlook on cars. My gripes are mostly with the current state of design and aesthetics (which I find to be largely in not a good place), as well as the fact that crossovers, my least favorite vehicle class, are devouring the market and simultaneously replacing both sedans and traditional SUVs with an unappealing compromise between the two and reducing buying options. Now your SUV choices are basically an assortment of indistinguishable bougie pistachios if you don't want to deal with the enormous size of the remaining truck-based models. But the safety and tech aspects of modern vehicles? That poo poo is all amazing and the advancements in even the last 5 or so years are insane. When I took the truck for a test drive at the dealer, I went straight to looking over my shoulder/using mirrors to back it out of its parking spot before remembering it had the back up camera with the proximity grid overlay and dynamic wheel path depiction. I am already super spoiled to it - makes parallel parking sooo much easier, though it's somewhat slowed down my process for getting a feel for exactly how close I am to things and whatnot.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:05
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Update: I picked out a '21 Jetta SE that I liked but got vetoed by the wife on account of it being a little pricy. I mean, she's not WRONG, but car prices in general are stupid, and honestly it seems like decent used cars are as much, if not more than buying new. I did end up finding a '19 Jetta with pretty low miles (20k I think) for around 19k. Any VW pitfalls?
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Aug 5, 2021 18:22
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I'm kicking around replacing my car, just starting the process and am in no rush. I know the market is crazytown but I figure I can get caught up on what's available now then do something when inventory becomes available again. I have an 8 year old Accord and while I'm sure I could get another 8 years out of it, Ms. Protato and I are car campers and road trippers so having something that can haul all the coolers and gear we need for our in-tents lifestyle would be good, while still getting me back and forth to work the 2-3 days/wk I'm in the office. I give a poo poo about fuel economy so a smaller SUV/crossover that gets good highway MPG would be ideal. Hybrid would be even better. We're in a condo now so I can't do a full EV, on the off chance the housing market settles enough for us to buy something that'll change but I'm not holding my breath on that. I've never looked at anything other than sedans before so I know jack and poo poo about the non-car market. One exception - the missus has a 8ish year old CX-5 and I hate driving the drat thing, it's as sluggish and non-responsive as the lovely K-car I learned to drive on. Proposed Budget: 30-40k New or Used: New Body Style: SUV/Crossover How will you be using the car?: 75% daily driver, 25% road trips What aspects are most important to you? In order: reliability, fuel economy, low maintenance costs, can fit a bigass cooler in the trunk, can handle a Wisconsin winter, amenities like heated seats and fancy dash computer/audio things
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Aug 5, 2021 19:56
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I'm very confused by the last two pages. There was a time when Jaguars/Land Rovers were reliable? 
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Aug 5, 2021 20:04
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Residency Evil posted:I'm very confused by the last two pages. There was not. But there was a time when they were not the generic softlander garbage they have become (and still unreliable).
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Aug 5, 2021 20:08
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Semi-Protato posted:I'm kicking around replacing my car, just starting the process and am in no rush. I know the market is crazytown but I figure I can get caught up on what's available now then do something when inventory becomes available again. Everything can handle generic winter with FWD if you have the right tires. If you have special needs like routinely unplowed hills etc. you can consider seeking out AWD or a Forester. But by the time you get $40k of bells and whistles on a CUV you're probably leaving with AWD whether you like it or not They're big tall heavy wobbly sedans so they're never gonna feel as nice as a shorter lighter one. I find my new (non-turbo) CX-5 to ride acceptably. But you need only say the word and the thread regulars will come out of the woodwork to recommend dadly, spirited wagons that can still haul a cooler and tent.
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Aug 5, 2021 20:14
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zedprime posted:For reliability with gas mileage with an affinity for hybrid you're looking at CR-Vs and Rav 4s. I think you need to get in line in most markets for the hybrid right now if that matters. Neither are going to be spirited in anyway and that's at odds with the reliability and gas mileage part. But you're also in the price range for a turbo CX-5 which may solve your preference for acceleration but again at direct odds with gas mileage. Thanks, I'll check out the Hondas and Toyotas. I'm not looking for anything with fancy sport acceleration, I have a base trim 4cyl Accord as my reference and anything remotely close to that would be great. If the CX-5 is as good as these things get I will have to seriously readjust my expectations, with just the two of us in the car and no cargo the thing has trouble getting up to highway speeds on a downhill on ramp.
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Aug 5, 2021 20:37
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Residency Evil posted:I'm very confused by the last two pages. I was merely lamenting their transformation from unreliable good-looking rugged SUVs to unreliable dumb-looking bougie status symbols. The '95 Discovery we had was always a piece of a crap and the only reason my dad kept it running so long and for so many miles was because his British mechanic buddy had an identical salvaged model as a dedicated parts donor. Also the engine spontaneously combusted one time when my sister started it up to drive home after school and there was a huge scene with fire trucks and poo poo but my dad just had it towed to the shop for repairs. Ran (poorly) for at least another four or five years after that. In the early 00's when my dad was in the market for another SUV, he asked a tow truck driver which SUV he should not buy, and the guy immediately said Range Rover because he picked them up all the time and way more frequently than any other brand. So my dad got a Tahoe, which ended up being an excellent choice (RIP Tahoe 2004-2020 & 310k miles). So Land Rovers have always been poo poo, but at least they used to look cool and could go off-road.
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Aug 5, 2021 20:44
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Semi-Protato posted:If the CX-5 is as good as these things get I will have to seriously readjust my expectations, with just the two of us in the car and no cargo the thing has trouble getting up to highway speeds on a downhill on ramp. The newer turbo CX-5, introduced in 2019, goes a long way towards fixing this complaint. With 250hp/320ft lbs it is by far the most powerful option in the segment. It has tons of power from off-idle to highway passing. You'll find yourself accidentally pushing 100 while passing. An 8 year old last-gen non-turbo CX-5 is hardly even the same vehicle. Mine has even consistently gotten 28-29 highway mpg on road trips with 2 adults and cargo, and I wasn't being delicate with the throttle. Around town stop and go its definitely closer to 20 though. But turbo CX-5 aside, most of the mainstream CUV segment is a snooze fest in terms of power/acceleration/handling. Guinness fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 20:46
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Semi-Protato posted:Thanks, I'll check out the Hondas and Toyotas. I'm not looking for anything with fancy sport acceleration, I have a base trim 4cyl Accord as my reference and anything remotely close to that would be great. If the CX-5 is as good as these things get I will have to seriously readjust my expectations, with just the two of us in the car and no cargo the thing has trouble getting up to highway speeds on a downhill on ramp. I loaded mine up for a road trip and had no trouble getting to highway speeds on any ramp without using the full throw of the gas pedal
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Aug 5, 2021 20:48
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Residency Evil posted:I'm very confused by the last two pages. I was also very confused about this, glad we cleared that up.
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Aug 5, 2021 20:51
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Queen Victorian posted:I was merely lamenting their transformation from unreliable good-looking rugged SUVs to unreliable dumb-looking bougie status symbols. Follow-up question: haven't they always been bougie status symbols, at least in the US?
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Aug 5, 2021 22:19
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Residency Evil posted:Follow-up question: haven't they always been bougie status symbols, at least in the US? Oh sure - when I was growing up, all the nouveau riche people we knew drove Range Rovers. My dad just liked the Discovery over other options like the Explorer because of the height and exceptional visibility. But back then, even though they were being used as status symbols, they were still being designed and built to be bona fide sport utility vehicles because that was what Land Rover was originally about. Now they've forsaken their roots have gone all in on the status symbol aspect and nothing else, which results in useless bougie crossovers.
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Aug 5, 2021 23:02
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My wife is taking a larger role in picking our next car because the perfect Corolla I picked is "too loud". Here are are bulletpoints:
I have a consumer reports subscription, but they unfortunately don't have any way to filter/sort used cars by Owner Satisfaction (a roll-up that includes comfort and noise) so I have to pick the car before I can check the noise level. Hopefully you all can throw out some options to check out.
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Aug 6, 2021 00:41
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Corla Plankun posted:My wife is taking a larger role in picking our next car because the perfect Corolla I picked is "too loud". Forget the rest of your post, I think this needs some explanation. There is nothing "loud" about a properly maintained corolla, so everything else is going to be too "loud" also other than super sound insulated luxury cars.
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Aug 6, 2021 00:52
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Corla Plankun posted:My wife is taking a larger role in picking our next car because the perfect Corolla I picked is "too loud". Here are are bulletpoints: Here's a place to start: https://www.caranddriver.com/research/a31608803/quietest-cars/ The only vehicle on that list you may find for under $20k is an older Prius.
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Aug 6, 2021 00:58
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There is a lot of road noise when you're driving on the highway and inside the car. It makes sense to me because Consumer Reports only ever dings Toyotas for having too much road noise/not a smooth enough ride, but it is entirely possible that her expectations are just way too high. Is a used luxury car going to be a maintenance/maintenance-cost nightmare? I could be open to it if it is a manageable cost. I forgot to mention that electric/hybrid features (especially regenerative braking) would be a really huge nice-to-have but maybe I'm dreaming too big for the current used car market. Edit to add more car facts: The Loud Corolla is a 2018 Toyota Corolla LE CVT Corla Plankun fucked around with this message at 01:07 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 6, 2021 01:01
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A big contributor to road noise can be tires. You might investigate if your current set is known for road noise and maybe consider some quieter ones to replace them.
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Aug 6, 2021 01:02
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Corla Plankun posted:Is a used luxury car going to be a maintenance/maintenance-cost nightmare? I could be open to it if it is a manageable cost. Yes.
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Aug 6, 2021 01:13
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drill a few 2in holes in your door panels and blow in insulation, op
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Aug 6, 2021 01:13
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Windstream noise is almost nonexistent in the past 20 years unless you are getting the obviously shaped wrong cars. So highway noise is usually going to be tires and you can fix that by overpaying for tires. Focus on finding a car you want and save some money for tires or earplugs or a stereo upgrade or something. The other requirements scream Prius. E. Changed my mind do this KillHour posted:drill a few 2in holes in your door panels and blow in insulation, op
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Aug 6, 2021 01:16
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Corla Plankun posted:Is a used luxury car going to be a maintenance/maintenance-cost nightmare? Yes. Unless it's just a fancy Toyota (Lexus). As others have said....depending on WHAT noise she's talking about high quality tires may be the answer.
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Aug 6, 2021 01:46
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EdsTeioh posted:Update: I picked out a '21 Jetta SE that I liked but got vetoed by the wife on account of it being a little pricy. I mean, she's not WRONG, but car prices in general are stupid, and honestly it seems like decent used cars are as much, if not more than buying new. I did end up finding a '19 Jetta with pretty low miles (20k I think) for around 19k. Any VW pitfalls? VWs don’t have the best reputation for reliability, but MQB, the platform they’ve been using since 2019 for the Jetta, has gone a long way to at least make the problems less unique. Compared to, say, a comparable Toyota they’re less reliable, but honestly if you take care of it, I don’t think you’ll be in way over your head. Cars are generally a lot more reliable now than they have ever been. Anyway, I’ve enjoyed the Jettas I’ve driven, and I think they’re pretty good for what they are, an entry level sedan. New has its merits for sure, so I’d take into consideration the warranty and financing offered with either route. For a couple thousand more, I’d be tempted to just go new, but that’s thanks to a few bad experiences I’ve had with used cars more than anything. If you do opt for a used car, I’d certainly recommend getting an inspection prior to a purchase. Edit: An S might be worth considering too. I don’t miss my Golf’s sunroof that much, and the cloth seats are just fine too. nitsuga fucked around with this message at 03:10 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 6, 2021 02:51
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bird with big dick posted:I think they look great. the first time i saw the rear end of one i thought they forgot to take the prototype camo off rest of it looks ok tho Corla Plankun posted:There is a lot of road noise when you're driving on the highway and inside the car. It makes sense to me because Consumer Reports only ever dings Toyotas for having too much road noise/not a smooth enough ride, but it is entirely possible that her expectations are just way too high. Is a used luxury car going to be a maintenance/maintenance-cost nightmare? I could be open to it if it is a manageable cost. Champagne tastes on a beer budget here, friend. If you want a very quiet car the Buick LaCrosse V6 fits the bill and should be available cheaply. They're pretty reliable. bonus: also big.
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Aug 6, 2021 03:01
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I forgot the LaCrosse was dead. I wish American makes could compete with entry level German luxury but it appears we simply gave up. Encore aside, talking about sedans.
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Aug 6, 2021 03:17
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Deteriorata posted:A big contributor to road noise can be tires. You might investigate if your current set is known for road noise and maybe consider some quieter ones to replace them. The tires bight even be nice, but if they're cupped or wear weird (bad alignment or suspension problems) they can be super loud.
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Aug 6, 2021 08:21
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nitsuga posted:VWs don’t have the best reputation for reliability, but MQB, the platform they’ve been using since 2019 for the Jetta, has gone a long way to at least make the problems less unique. Compared to, say, a comparable Toyota they’re less reliable, but honestly if you take care of it, I don’t think you’ll be in way over your head. Cars are generally a lot more reliable now than they have ever been. Thanks for all that; and honestly after a talk last night, I found out her problem is literally some stigma she has against Jettas in particular. After all that, she okayed me getting a Civic that's even more than the Jetta, so I guess I'm back to Hondas. Doot doot.
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Aug 6, 2021 15:19
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EdsTeioh posted:Thanks for all that; and honestly after a talk last night, I found out her problem is literally some stigma she has against Jettas in particular. After all that, she okayed me getting a Civic that's even more than the Jetta, so I guess I'm back to Hondas. Doot doot. Sure, those by most accounts are OK too. I think Honda had a pretty terrible infotainment system until just the last few years though. Another option might be a Mazda3 or getting a couple Honda badges for the Jetta.
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Aug 6, 2021 15:50
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