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bobmarleysghost posted:Is there any good writing on Art and communism? Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction is university mandatory reading everywhere. It does present a very particular view, and can at times even be interpreted as quite critical of marxist aesthetics. It is a gold standard though, to the point that I involutarily roll my eyes when someone tells me I need to read it/would like it. I have an art history degree and my supervisor was a Yugo Marxist, I've read that thing so many times. https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/ge/benjamin.htm The Total Art of Stalinism by Boris Groys is a personal favourite. It dives into the narratives around constructivism, suprematism, and socialist realism in a way that cannot really be parralleled elsewhere. Too much of soviet art history you are exposed to in the west is essentially CIA propaghanda and strictly anti-stalin and pro-constructivist in an incredibly facile manner. Groys is not kind to stalin by any means, but he is fair, and he does much to disspell the western narrative of Stalin supressing the constructivist geniuses and moving soviet art backwards away from modernism. Disclaimer: I love constructivism and personally think socialist-realism lacked imagination and portrayed the very possible and unattainable, which was the opposite of what it set out to do. A kids movie about exploring the moon was once supressed as it was deemed that human beings on the moon was too outlandish and fantastical to fit within the boundries of socialist-realism. Infact this was the opposite case, well mostly. https://monoskop.org/images/e/e5/Groys_Boris_The_Total_Art_of_Stalinism_Avant-Garde_Aesthetic_Dictatorship_and_Beyond.pdf The Movie in question - which whips rear end IMO. The modernist soundtrack is either a love it or loathe it though. The model work in this is top notch. (for just a good scene exhibiting the movies strengths start here : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhJKzuOb2w&t=392s The movie from start: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDhJKzuOb2w I wrote my thesis on socialism, revolution, and art, specifically focusing on William Morris -> Constructivism - I can probably dig up a lot of other good articles, but I teach art all day and am tired. I will never tire of recommending people soviet cinema though. Virtual Russian has issued a correction as of 02:17 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 02:11
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tokin opposition posted:Denouncing Cuba for revisionism over their weed policy everyday Yeah, this whole Cuba episode has mostly quashed any anarcho-curious thoughts I had after seeing a lot of anarchists have the entirely wrong opinion on Cuba. Like having the "Oh, you think the CIA is messing with Cuba? Ha, you think the CIA is messing with everything!" levels of wrong. Anyways, anyone know a good book on the history of the USSR?
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Aug 5, 2021 03:36
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bobmarleysghost posted:Is there any good writing on Art and communism? Mao Zedong was particularly good on this question: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-3/mswv3_08.htm
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Aug 5, 2021 04:16
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MLSM posted:Mao Zedong was particularly good on this question: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-3/mswv3_08.htm I think this follows one of the key mistakes a lot of prominent marxists make on the subject of art. They always seem to view it from the outside, they see it fundementally as a tool. Something to be used by them to achieve an end. It is very instrumentalist and IMO runs totally contrary to what art should be, especially in a marxist soceity. Here Mao talks of "art for the masses", but not really "art by the masses." Here Mao essentially seems to take aim at the special class of people know as "artists" and (not incorrectly) points out that they make art with and for petite-bourgeois sensibilities. His goal seems to be to have artists embody the soul of the worker, and make art for that worker to consume. To me, this misses entirely the truly liberating and revolutionary potential of art. We should not focus on the content of art, but instead should step back to examine the processes and contexts in which art is created. Art should not be made for someone, but by someone. Top down culture should be cast aside, we should smash the very notion of the artist, for the idea that creation of culture/art belongs to a special caste of people (artists) needs to be done away with entirely. Art, a bourgeois term for what I prefer to call "cultural-production" should be something everyone engages in and with. We are all naturally creative, and in a soceity that would ideally give us more and more leisure time a truly liberated people would set themselves to creating culture actively, not just consuming culture passively. Instead of the privileged few making culture for all to consume, we should all be engaged in a massive network of culture in which we are both producer and consumer. No one style is revolutionary, nor is another counter-revolutionary. The individual act of making culture no matter the form is revolutionary; passive consumption of culture is of course naturally counter-revolutionary. Does it really matter if one watches Hollywood or Mosfilm for 8 hours a day on the couch if all one does is sit idle on a couch? Virtual Russian has issued a correction as of 05:10 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 05:08
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my view on art is that I like Ilya repin and I see no need to develop the view any further
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Aug 5, 2021 05:26
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The Atomic Man-Boy posted:Yeah, this whole Cuba episode has mostly quashed any anarcho-curious thoughts I had after seeing a lot of anarchists have the entirely wrong opinion on Cuba. Like having the "Oh, you think the CIA is messing with Cuba? Ha, you think the CIA is messing with everything!" levels of wrong. huge number of books on various topics here, pick your poison: https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3934654
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Aug 5, 2021 05:37
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Continuing my reading: 1.  ___ 2.  ___ 3.  ___ This next chapter is about Cuba's medical internationalism 4.   ___ 5.  The succeeding pages also note Cuban expeditions to: * Conga-Brazzaville (now the Republic of Congo) in 1966 * Guinea Bissau in 1966 * Peru in 1970, responding to an earthquake * Chile in 1971, responding to another earthquake * Nicaragua in 1972, responding to an earthquake (and despite the country being ruled by the Somoza dictatorship) * Honduras in 1974, responding to an earthquake * Angola in 1976-1977; this one tends to be what some people are specifically familiar with, as Cuba sent over 30,000 military troops and 200 healthcare workers to defend the MPLA against UNITA and FNLA * Mexico in 1985, earthquake * El Salvador in 1986, earthquake * Ecuador in 1987, earthquake * Nicaragua in 1988, hurricane * Iran in 1990, earthquake * Brazil in 1990, radiation poisoning * Nicaragua in 1991, flooding * Nicaragua again in 1992, volcanic eruption * Honduras, Guatemala, and Nicaragua in 1998, Hurricane Mitch * Colombia in 1999, earthquake * Honduras in 1999, dengue epidemic * Venezuela in 1999, floods I will note here that while the author also mentions a Cuban expedition to Ethiopia in 1977, this is the one that tends to be a bit more controversial. More on this later. 6.   On a personal note, I was stunned as I read this section - I never even knew of this programme by Cuba. Incredible.
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Aug 5, 2021 08:15
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Virtual Russian posted:Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction is university mandatory reading everywhere. It does present a very particular view, and can at times even be interpreted as quite critical of marxist aesthetics. It is a gold standard though, to the point that I involutarily roll my eyes when someone tells me I need to read it/would like it. I have an art history degree and my supervisor was a Yugo Marxist, I've read that thing so many times. walter benjamin ftw i'd also recommend john berger's art criticism (rip)
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Aug 5, 2021 08:47
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bobmarleysghost posted:Is there any good writing on Art and communism? this is the only revolutionary music ever made and if you like jazz you’re a dirty reactionary https://youtu.be/JEY9lmCZbIc
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Aug 5, 2021 09:55
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gradenko_2000 posted:On a personal note, I was stunned as I read this section - I never even knew of this programme by Cuba. Incredible. I fundamentally don’t understand ghouls who read this and conclude that communism is bad
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Aug 5, 2021 10:00
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gradenko_2000 posted:On a personal note, I was stunned as I read this section - I never even knew of this programme by Cuba. Incredible. They're legitimately the only country where I truly respect the people and the government and basically support them almost unconditionally lol. This is probably pretty trite but us Americans love to jack off about how our massive military is actually doing some good in the world because we sometimes drop rice bags out of airplanes or whatever. But the fuckin' Cubans have been doing about 100x what we do on .1% of the budget. And that's just what their military forces do, let alone the rest of the government and volunteer efforts.
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Aug 5, 2021 12:25
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exmarx posted:walter benjamin ftw berger owned
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Aug 5, 2021 12:30
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Cuba is imo the best gateway drug for Americans to start deprogramming our anticommunism. Since they're a tiny island nation blockaded by this huge superpower it gives them a kind of sympathetic underdog character and the same is true of the July 26 guerillas in the Sierra Maestra. Obviously they had very well organized urban networks in Havana or Santiago under people like Frank Pais but the guerillas in the mountains get bled down to like 15 guys in the early days and about 2 years later they've taken Oriente, Santa Clara, and Havana. Then you get into what they actually accomplished in terms of literacy, public health, etc. despite the constant US harassment (including kidnapping, supporting reactionary guerillas in the Escambray, etc.) and it makes them look even more superhuman. Plus it's easier for Americans to unlearn propaganda about the dastardly Soviets when they realize what a lifeline the USSR was to Cuba once the embargo ramped up and that Cuba modeled its institutions on the USSR (JUCEPLAN, etc.). And then you realize "oh poo poo every socialist state has made similar extraordinary accomplishments under similar handicaps" and whatever latent anticommunism you had is pretty much gone
MeatwadIsGod has issued a correction as of 12:40 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 12:37
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Cuba is imo the best gateway drug for Americans to start deprogramming our anticommunism. Since they're a tiny island nation blockaded by this huge superpower it gives them a kind of sympathetic underdog character and the same is true of the July 26 guerillas in the Sierra Maestra. Obviously they had very well organized urban networks in Havana or Santiago under people like Frank Pais but the guerillas in the mountains get bled down to like 15 guys in the early days and about 2 years later they've taken Oriente, Santa Clara, and Havana. Then you get into what they actually accomplished in terms of literacy, public health, etc. despite the constant US harassment (including kidnapping, supporting reactionary guerillas in the Escambray, etc.) and it makes them look even more superhuman. Plus it's easier for Americans to unlearn propaganda about the dastardly Soviets when they realize what a lifeline the USSR was to Cuba once the embargo ramped up and that Cuba modeled its institutions on the USSR (JUCEPLAN, etc.). And then you realize "oh poo poo every socialist state has made similar extraordinary accomplishments under similar handicaps" and whatever latent anticommunism you had is pretty much gone Please leave my head, this is a restricted area.
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Aug 5, 2021 12:42
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i simply grew up really poor and hosed up and the only positive change in my entire life was from the state sending my mom to rehab on the state's dime. so i just slowly kept thinking 'why did I get so lucky? why doesn't everyone have this? why do all these rich kids have it so easy when i went hungry as a child?' and so all the liberal propaganda slowly fell away basically as soon as I had to consider any part of it in my own context. anyway then i joined the military and discovered firsthand that the state is incredibly stupid and dysfunctional and pretty much only accomplishes things by accident unless they directly make the ruling class money or supports their power. and the last flip from 'incredibly angry big government liberal' to 'raging communist' was complete
Larry Parrish has issued a correction as of 13:15 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 13:12
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MLSM posted:Mao Zedong was particularly good on this question: https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-3/mswv3_08.htm thanks as well! Virtual Russian posted:Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction is university mandatory reading everywhere. It does present a very particular view, and can at times even be interpreted as quite critical of marxist aesthetics. It is a gold standard though, to the point that I involutarily roll my eyes when someone tells me I need to read it/would like it. I have an art history degree and my supervisor was a Yugo Marxist, I've read that thing so many times. This is super informative thank you, I'll have to read through it all and will definitely come back to you with questions.
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Aug 5, 2021 16:03
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bobmarleysghost posted:thanks as well! Walter Benjamin is among the GOAT on the subject. From there, the usual Marxist academic route is to go to Adorno/Horkheimer: the first is good but too much of an egghead so you gotta trim him occasionally (he loving hated jazz, the idiot). The latter is far more of a sociologist. IMHO, there is a far greater value in reading them in order to figure out the peculiar view of Marxism and socialism in the USA, as they were quite formative for a lot of American intellectuals who studied with them during their exile from Germany and yeah, Marxism and art is generally divided in: Marxist aesthetics, a "what is art, and most importantly, what makes for good art?" theory from Marxist principles, and the political economy of art, which is more about what the big thinkers had to say about the material conditions that make art possible or not, like how capitalism deprives art to the many in order to make it a product, etc.
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Aug 5, 2021 16:36
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https://twitter.com/codet_t/status/1423290282041245702
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Aug 5, 2021 17:54
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John Charity Spring posted:Speaking as someone who flirted with Trotskyism for a short while about 10 years ago, Trotskyism is an easy fit for any western liberal who's radicalising but doesn't want to confront a lot of anti-communist propaganda directed at states like the USSR or China. It lets you position yourself firmly at Real Communism Hasn't Been Tried. Also a basic grasp of 'permanent revolution' is appealing because of its urgency and call-to-action; even though no action has ever followed from it, it gives a compelling extra 'socialist' dimension to add on to the anti-communist critiques of Stalin etc; that they didn't do enough to spread the revolution. Also a lot of Trotskyist arguments and positions are very similar to those advanced by 'democratic socialists' like George Orwell who I was also into for a bit in my early twenties. It's a kind of left-wing viewpoint that doesn't challenge too much liberal orthodoxy; much like anarchism, it's attractive in places like the UK and USA for that reason. I was in SA for four months and felt iffy about the foreign policy stances but it felt like I was “doing something” in my own city/state (and they have achieved some things in WA, but no socialism ) and this sounds about right for most people who are involved. the foreign policy of active opposition to CCP, especially for HK , was hard to ignore while joining and glossed over if you asked about it. then covid happened and it became impossible to ignore that most of was written in their paper about China was incorrect, plagiarized, and in service of something other than socialism, and that was that. the camaraderie was nice and I miss it. oh well.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:14
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Speaking of Trotskyists https://twitter.com/WSWS_Updates/st...ingawful.com%2F
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Aug 5, 2021 18:21
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quote:• In January, fascist forces attempted to overthrow the US government and install a presidential dictatorship, a coup directed from the White House. Emboldened by the spinelessness of the Democrats, leading figures in the Republican Party openly defend right-wing violence and insurrection. quote:The complaints hardly rise to the level of being judged on the basis of their truth or non-truth. Did Cuomo comment on the looks of Executive Assistant #1, ask Trooper #1 why she didn’t wear a dress or “grab the butt” of State Entity Employee #1? We have no idea and couldn’t care less.
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Aug 5, 2021 18:24
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gradenko_2000 posted:Speaking of Trotskyists parody lol
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Aug 5, 2021 18:25
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gradenko_2000 posted:Speaking of Trotskyists they've truly never seen a creep they didn't love
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Aug 5, 2021 19:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:Speaking of Trotskyists lmao
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Aug 5, 2021 19:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:Speaking of Trotskyists 
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Aug 5, 2021 19:38
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broader than art, raymond williams and stuart hall were marxists + p much invented cultural studies. williams' writing is pretty dense, but his stuff on hegemony and cultural change is great.
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Aug 5, 2021 21:02
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that’s a yikeseroo
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Aug 5, 2021 21:34
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oscarthewilde posted:this is the only revolutionary music ever made and if you like jazz you’re a dirty reactionary schoenberg/serialism has been called the logic of stalinism applied to music. it's certainly an egalitarianism of tonality, but it's also kind of rhythmically autistic. jazz ain't reactionary bro. groove music in general is the music that expresses the experience of life under commodified time - which is why it only emerged on the 20c after the triumph of the commodified work day, and why it has totally eclipsed all other kinds of music since. groove music is defined by a reversal of aristocratic/bourgeois metric hierarchies - the underlying impulse of groove is revolutionary as heck. jazz musicians made the revolution that they couldn’t make in society in music instead - and that revolution has continued through rock, hiphop, metal, edm, etc. mark abel has an excellent histmat book on the subject, one of my favorite books of music theory ever. for me metal is the music that has the most potential for revolutionary horizons today, but you can hear the experience of the global proletariat in anything that grooves really. such a beautifully human thing to do - to take the structure of one's subjugation and make it danceable. emTme3 has issued a correction as of 22:07 on Aug 5, 2021 |
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Aug 5, 2021 21:43
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oscarthewilde posted:this is the only revolutionary music ever made and if you like jazz you’re a dirty reactionary Wrong! It's Maoist disco - https://youtu.be/x5RAvDZZyCI
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Aug 5, 2021 21:53
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namesake posted:Wrong! https://youtu.be/H6wl-EyhXl0
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Aug 5, 2021 22:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DfVio8TMJpY
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Aug 5, 2021 23:02
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gradenko_2000 posted:Speaking of Trotskyists incredible
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Aug 6, 2021 01:57
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namesake posted:Wrong! namesake posted:Wrong! shaking my drat head https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LsOMEUamYkc
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Aug 6, 2021 03:10
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you are all wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUjqYfyvynQ
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Aug 6, 2021 03:12
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belated golden  the scottie pippen of marxism and the the obviously best beard game of all time
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Aug 6, 2021 04:55
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https://youtu.be/OdWgx4VJe5A
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Aug 6, 2021 04:56
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No Cuba book excerpts today, folks - this chapter is all about a history of the US blockade and CIA operations against Cuba, which sucks and is bad, but isn't really anything to be learned from in the Marxism thread. Death to America.
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Aug 6, 2021 10:29
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F Stop Fitzgerald posted:you are all wrong https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MC0Om8v8H7g
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Aug 6, 2021 11:31
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 real David Brooks hours
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Aug 6, 2021 20:15
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lmao
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Aug 6, 2021 20:24
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