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Kalit posted:Bringing this derail in from the USnews thread for relevance. Lib and let die, since you had stated that you love Dore, what do you think about Jimmy Dore's misogynism and sexual harassing other(s)? Not to make light or dismiss the allegations against Dore but I'd love to know the moral calculus you used if you voted for Biden(which I am assuming)
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Aug 6, 2021 17:42
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Terminal autist posted:Not to make light or dismiss the allegations against Dore but I'd love to know the moral calculus you used if you voted for Biden(which I am assuming) I definitely don't love Biden, I begrudgingly voted for him in the general election
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Aug 6, 2021 17:43
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Kalit posted:Bringing this derail in from the USnews thread for relevance. Lib and let die, since you had stated that you love Dore, what do you think about Jimmy Dore's misogynism and sexual harassing other(s)?
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Aug 6, 2021 17:44
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Kalit posted:I definitely don't love Biden, I begrudgingly voted for him in the general election I don't want to speak for anyone but this sort of gotcha posting sucks and weaponizing sexual assault allegations to own your posting enemies really sucks. I just basically did the same thing though and realized I'm being a massive rear end in a top hat. Just gonna apologize and drop it
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Aug 6, 2021 17:48
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Kalit posted:Bringing this derail in from the USnews thread for relevance. Lib and let die, since you had stated that you love Dore, what do you think about Jimmy Dore's misogynism and sexual harassing other(s)? I think that no one that wasn't in that room 10 or so years ago or whatever really knows what happened. What I do know, is that the TYT "newsroom" environment ten years ago isn't the same as the TYT "newsroom" environment today. It's like trying to compare Howard Stern to Keith Olbermann - it's just not the same content aimed at the same demographic. FWIW, I do think Jimmy's comment was inappropriate, I think it was inappropriate when he made it, and I think it'd be inappropriate in any newsroom - hell any environment today. Jimmy absolutely owed Ana the apology he gave her. For me, the issue is with motivation. If there wasn't a direct message history of Ana flat-out threatening to go public unless Jimmy stopped criticizing TYT, I would almost certainly find myself on the other side of this divide. Hell, I'm willing to even give Ana the benefit of "she sent a message she shouldn't have in a moment of anger/emotion/drunkenness" because, well, whom amongst us? But she made the deliberate signal that she was going to dig this issue up again, publicly, and use it to "crush" him unless Jimmy stopped criticizing her and TYT for their lack of journalistic integrity. I'd even be all for a formal investigation into the issue, Cuomo style! At least then we'd have something other than twitter fueds and youtube clout chasing to try and form an informed opinion with! As it is, we have two independent media outlets fighting it out with each other in nowhere but the court of public opinion, with their own organizational biases informing their own reporting on the issue.
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Aug 6, 2021 17:49
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Lib and let die posted:I think that no one that wasn't in that room 10 or so years ago or whatever really knows what happened. Thank you for the answer, even if I disagree with it, and sorry for pushing on this so much. I did edit my post and was just going to drop it, since I was being a petty rear end in a top hat as Terminal autist pointed out.
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Aug 6, 2021 17:55
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Hey, thanks to all parties for resolving this conflict maturely!
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Aug 6, 2021 17:59
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Kalit posted:Thank you for the answer, even if I disagree with it, and sorry for pushing on this so much. I did edit my post and was just going to drop it, since I was being a petty rear end in a top hat as Terminal autist pointed out. Please don't ever think you can't call out my posting. I won't post anything here that I'm not comfortable expanding on or defending - and if there's a general consensus that I'm wrong, then I probably have a chance to do a growth!
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Aug 6, 2021 18:05
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This really demonstrates how taking partisan media at face value and guilt by association feeds into the worst possible ideas. The right must absolutely love it how they can platform victims of sexual harassment entirely sympathetically and cause liberals to actively regress on the issues in response. Yet another case of ceding ground to the right due to being so easily manipulated.
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Aug 6, 2021 18:13
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Ghost Leviathan posted:This really demonstrates how taking partisan media at face value and guilt by association feeds into the worst possible ideas. The right must absolutely love it how they can platform victims of sexual harassment entirely sympathetically and cause liberals to actively regress on the issues in response. Yet another case of ceding ground to the right due to being so easily manipulated. My reaction was rooted in the screen shot itself, I don't know if Biden is standing up or reaching over for something or if its his grandchild or whatever. The tweet itself wasn't coming from a Republican, but a dictator apologist and someone making light of trans children. I think with that and the OP which I felt was kind of flippant, that's where my feelings were coming from. I think I get a little sensitive in general when things are not victim focused and felt like the post was making light of things, but I think I was being overly sensitive on that last point there and I think that's reflective of me more than the OP. The video and tweets with more showed that he was creepily reaching and whispering into this girls ear, weirdly lingering, and way too close to begin with. I get why my post was lovely, and I really do apologize for my post that was essentially writing off what really was Biden being inappropriate with a child. And I think any defense I can have for my take in the OP about context or whatever is taking away from the kid being in a lovely situation. I really do care about this topic and it's incredibly personal to me. So, I'm not really trying to defend myself here, but more explain my reasoning that led me there. But I would be lying if I'm not sensitive to the idea of really trying to write off a victim out of partisanship, it's not my intent, but it's how the post came off so that's irrelevant. And I am sorry. Timeless Appeal fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Aug 6, 2021 |
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Aug 6, 2021 18:37
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I appreciate you being thoughtful about it so I’ll be clear that I didn’t intend to come off as flippant. This behavior earnestly disgusts me and I think it’s loving stunning that he just keeps doing it, especially again in the same week where he was asked to give a statement about another gropey creep. I certainly don’t co-sign any of that twitter accounts beliefs. In general I do try to double check and make sure I’m not retweeting/reposting someone heinous; because I had already seen both the video source and Higgins’ tweet in addition to this one, and because this is a pattern of behavior for Biden, it was sufficiently corroborated from my POV and I just grabbed the first link I remembered seeing without glancing at his TL first. Wasn’t trying to post up a gotcha, or further some shithead’s agenda, just giving my visceral reaction. because yeeeeeeeesh.
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Aug 6, 2021 20:11
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What's happening with Blizzard has a ton of parallels to politics. Hr ignored complaints from at least 6 women because they were against the company darlings. It takes so so many women to come forward to get anything done and everytime we come forward we risk our jobs, our futures, our careers. Especially if it's against someone popular in the in group. It was no different for the women who've come forward about Biden. Almost identical stakes. https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1423660406644649985?s=19
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Aug 6, 2021 21:12
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Charges filed against Cuomo by a woman whose breast he groped. I am still doubtful of criminal consequences for him, but I think the odds on him going through successful civil cases is pretty likely.
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Aug 6, 2021 21:24
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I'm really frustrated right now because one of the girls who Biden groped as a little girl is obviously now older and admitted on her tiktok profile that Biden even went as far as pinching her nipple. Has a single news org supportive of Biden picked this up? of course not. So now it's going to be relegated to the news land of "liberals wont talk about this because its only on right wing sites" I dont feel like putting any of the links in here - its easy enough to find the screenshots from her tik tok by searching biden nipple pinch and if I put any links at all theyll immediately be dismissed. Edit: Before anyone says "well tiktok :blahblah: " we spent weeks pouring over Claudia Conways tiktok on this forum and in the news. silicone thrills fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 17:47
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silicone thrills posted:I'm really frustrated right now because one of the girls who Biden groped as a little girl is obviously now older and admitted on her tiktok profile that Biden even went as far as pinching her nipple. Yes, it is quite incredible that this story has not been picked up at all. We have a primary source claiming that Joe Biden sexually assaulted her as an eight year old. Truly disgusting.
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Aug 7, 2021 18:19
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Boy is it gonna be a barrel of laughs seeing grown rear end adults smear a child the same way they did Tara Reade, just a real goddamn chucklefest. She’s already been harassed into deleting the comments and making her tiktok private
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Aug 7, 2021 18:59
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misadventurous posted:I appreciate you being thoughtful about it so I’ll be clear that I didn’t intend to come off as flippant. This behavior earnestly disgusts me and I think it’s loving stunning that he just keeps doing it, especially again in the same week where he was asked to give a statement about another gropey creep. Yeah he just won't stop doing it and the most frustrating part is how everyone loving ignores it. Like Biden gets handsy with a literal child on live tv for like the 5th time and everyone around him, his supporters, and even people on these very forums, immediately adopt a 1000 yard stare and develop super vision that stops them from seeing Joe Biden only. It's incredibly vile.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:00
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Just remembered he also made that bizarre comment recently about a little girl at the memorial day thing https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/biden-called-creepy-after-attempting-to-compliment-young-girl-by-saying-she-looks-19/ar-AAKvnir Like seriously, I hate this fuckin guy and I don’t support him, but even if I did I’d be like “shut up you dumb creep! stop touching kids! what the hell are you doing” Again, you’d think he’d have handlers by now specifically to STOP HIM FROM DOING THIS poo poo
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Aug 7, 2021 19:09
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Harold Fjord posted:Let's not, please. Odd that posters dismissed the issue as just "he said/she said" for Dore. That his behaviour should be ignored because the poster liked his politics.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:11
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misadventurous posted:Just remembered he also made that bizarre comment recently about a little girl at the memorial day thing The main reason he gets away with it is that everyone around him cannot acknowledge that he's a huge fuckin creeper. Biden's entire popularity and political effectiveness hinges on the idea that he's some saint of healing come to fix the country after the Bad Orange Man(and only the Bad Orange Man there are no problems with capitalism and he definitely wasn't just a symptom of a bigger problem) ruined everything, Unfortunately the person they chose as a symbol of this idea is a serial sex pest who literally cannot stop himself from assaulting every girl or woman he sees, because he has never actually been punished for it. So everyone's eyes glaze over and they just pretend he's not assaulting people on live TV right in front of them. Restraining him would be acknowledging that there's a problem and would break the elaborate fantasy they've constructed out of nothing. It's horrific.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:24
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It's cool, lets just pigeon hole the whole conversation to a thread with less than 30 regular readers because the idea of talking about this in a popular and active thread is uncouth.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:27
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I don't wish to start a derail but here is one of the huge reasons why some people don't trust the mainstream media or the liberal media. Also a reason many people are ignorant of the issue. It's not just bias, it's outright omission when it behooves them. It's certainly not the only reason, but it's a major one.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:28
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silicone thrills posted:It's cool, lets just pigeon hole the whole conversation to a thread with less than 30 regular readers because the idea of talking about this in a popular and active thread is uncouth. The Fantasy must be maintained at all costs.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:32
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silicone thrills posted:It's cool, lets just pigeon hole the whole conversation to a thread with less than 30 regular readers because the idea of talking about this in a popular and active thread is uncouth. USNews probably has what, 40 regular readers? We're not talking orders of magnitude, here. If you want to address a large group of people about this stuff I'm sure there are plenty of newspaper comment sections and subreddits where you can get your point across to thousands of people. I'm not even being facetious here - if you think this is a reality people have to face, then tell them about it, instead of telling all of us 100 times. (Maybe you're already doing this, and if so, good!)
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Aug 7, 2021 19:37
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Cranappleberry posted:I don't wish to start a derail but here is one of the huge reasons why some people don't trust the mainstream media or the liberal media. Also a reason many people are ignorant of the issue. I don't think I can argue that bias doesn't play a huge role. You want to have faith in the people you support, the people you work with, the people you're close to and admire. I'm not saying it's acceptable. But it's sadly human and very sadly commonplace.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:37
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silicone thrills posted:It's cool, lets just pigeon hole the whole conversation to a thread with less than 30 regular readers because the idea of talking about this in a popular and active thread is uncouth. Yinlock posted:The Fantasy must be maintained at all costs. Mellow Seas posted:USNews probably has what, 40 regular readers? We're not talking orders of magnitude, here. Stop
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Aug 7, 2021 19:38
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Mellow Seas posted:USNews probably has what, 40 regular readers? We're not talking orders of magnitude, here. There was literally a US pol poster who recently said "he forgot about Tara Reade" recently so please don't bring in this poo poo. And yes. I do talk about this stuff in person to people and in other forums. I just find it particularly gross that the "believe women" people all want to shut survivors up.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:38
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I looked into it and it seems like Maria Piacesi did not consent to have this allegation shared with the public, and it came to light due to a leaked DM. As far as I know she hasn't publicly commented on it, except in a tweet reply (e: tiktok reply?) that she deleted almost immediately. That doesn't have anything to do with Biden's culpability; after all, it's on video, but it does leave me with an uneasy feeling. I can't help but feel she's being victimized again, and in a way that builds atop the trauma she had to face when she was younger. What a lovely situation. Mellow Seas fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 19:55
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I would hope, if Cuomo is successfully impeached (which is highly doubtful in my mind) that it does not end up like Derek Chauvin where one consequence amidst a sea of none therefore reaffirms the whole system, justice is restored, etc. The simple fact is, a president with an outstanding rape accusation against him who continues to act aggressively, not just tactile, but aggressive with women of all ages will be up for election in 2024. I would hope Biden's history is not dismissed as "the inevitable results of a system" and is treated with the seriousness that was deserved. Because that seriousness was missing in 2020 and that's left a profound effect on a lot of people. The shittiest experience I had wasn't even on here, it was on Facebook, where I was arguing with "friends" about this, and then a mutual of theirs said they were sorry about my experience but hoped one day I would "understand." Like using my experiences as the basis of a litmus test for presidents was selfish somehow. That, probably more than the votes themselves, is what worries me, that underneath all these optics of believing victims and the like, there is a desire to dismiss the identity of victims in favor of some "greater good." That makes it difficult to shame conservatives for their rapes too. Probably one of the reason the Access Hollywood tapes didn't sink Trump as much as it should have (and hell yeah it should've) was Bill Clinton's connections with Epstein coming to light as well as his previous misdeeds also being highlighted. Conservatives might've shrugged about it regardless, they sure did with Kavanaugh, but it made it easier for them. This isn't to go all USPol about this... this is the after-effect of rape culture. There's no more damaging sentiment than, "Well, everyone else is doing it, therefore...." Those Facebook friends seemed very convinced Biden had only done one rape versus Trump's untold number of ones, and that was because the media focused only one complaint... which is also what they did with Kavanaugh. That focus on a single narrative as opposed to a disturbing trend, from Biden getting kicked out a woman's dorm in college to allegations of Trump spying on Miss America Pageant contestants, is going to be the template of the future - "Can you prove this one case? If not, no other contextual evidence can be admitted." As someone who himself wasn't in a position to "prove" my victimizer's guilt, that does not encourage me.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:02
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I think one of the things that gross me out most about Joe Biden being a sexpest, I mean obviously aside from him being a sexpest, is that at the next event following a large outrage at him being creepy around kids he'll make a joke about what he wants to do whatever to a kid but he'd get in trouble by his handlers. It's all a joke to him! He sees nothing wrong with what he's doing, and it's disgusting. If that guy is that much of a brazen creep around kids and preteens in public I don't even want to imagine what he's like around attractive adults in private. (Not that one has to given the fact that people have come forward about just that.)
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Aug 7, 2021 20:03
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Cranappleberry posted:I don't wish to start a derail but here is one of the huge reasons why some people don't trust the mainstream media or the liberal media. Also a reason many people are ignorant of the issue. It's not a derail; I've brought up several times itt how deplatforming right-wing media will get rid of the last scintilla of Dem malfeasance being publicized and/or acknowledged, & will successfully memory-hole any Biden-style perving out as never having happened, as was the case in the uspol threads of yore.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:12
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Probably Magic posted:The shittiest experience I had wasn't even on here, it was on Facebook, where I was arguing with "friends" about this, and then a mutual of theirs said they were sorry about my experience but hoped one day I would "understand." Like using my experiences as the basis of a litmus test for presidents was selfish somehow. That, probably more than the votes themselves, is what worries me, that underneath all these optics of believing victims and the like, there is a desire to dismiss the identity of victims in favor of some "greater good." That makes it difficult to shame conservatives for their rapes too. Probably one of the reason the Access Hollywood tapes didn't sink Trump as much as it should have (and hell yeah it should've) was Bill Clinton's connections with Epstein coming to light as well as his previous misdeeds also being highlighted. Conservatives might've shrugged about it regardless, they sure did with Kavanaugh, but it made it easier for them. It's one of the extreme difficulties about applying basic standards and preventing the spread of rape culture to politics. It's already a difficult sell when it comes to admonishing a widely beloved and known public figure like President Biden for being a creep. Factor in the possibility of another Trump win, not passing a massive infrastructure bill, etc., and you're going to get a lot of people who will be desperate to ignore or diminish it because they want what he's promising. Heck, I've encountered that in the past - it wasn't said, but it was pretty explicitly implied that creepy behavior was just something that was done because their work was so stressful, that it could damage the work being done if it was publicly addressed, it wasn't really that bad, and so on and so forth. It really does hurt to know that people you consider friends or colleagues believe this, I know that too. Andorra posted:I think one of the things that gross me out most about Joe Biden being a sexpest, I mean obviously aside from him being a sexpest, is that at the next event following a large outrage at him being creepy around kids he'll make a joke about what he wants to do whatever to a kid but he'd get in trouble by his handlers. It's all a joke to him! He sees nothing wrong with what he's doing, and it's disgusting. There's a saying my Dad had about stuff like this, that it's usually not just isolated, but more evidence of an infestation. If you see something like a brown recluse spider waddling across your floor, it probably doesn't mean that there's the one brown recluse, but that there are so many of them hidden away that they're starting to no longer see a need to hide. I agree with you on this, in that it's hinting at something much worse that he either might do if not for all the eyes on him, something that he might bring himself to do, or something that he's already done.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:13
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Willa Rogers posted:It's not a derail; I've brought up several times itt how deplatforming right-wing media will get rid of the last scintilla of Dem malfeasance being publicized and/or acknowledged, & will successfully memory-hole any Biden-style perving out as never having happened, as was the case in the uspol threads of yore. Call me crazy but there's probably a better way of "publicizing Dem malfeasance" that doesn't involve the constant brain poisoning of 30-40% of the population to believe lies in the service of capital and fascism.  The right wing is not and will never be your friend.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:16
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Mellow Seas posted:I looked into it and it seems like Maria Piacesi did not consent to have this allegation shared with the public, and it came to light due to a leaked DM. As far as I know she hasn't publicly commented on it, except in a tweet reply (e: tiktok reply?) that she deleted almost immediately. please stop trying to hold the man assaulting all these women and girls accountable, that's like victimizing them all over again look see how this girl deleted all her videos after she was attacked for accusing a powerful man, stop accusing that man look at the fallout when his allies have to bully all those women into silence
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Aug 7, 2021 20:17
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VitalSigns posted:please stop trying to hold the man assaulting all these women and girls accountable, that's like victimizing them all over again That’s not what I said.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:19
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I feel like there is a commonality between how biden's creeping gets ignored and how the media treated trump while he was incumbent, simply being in the office affords people a degree of deference and unwillingness for the press to call them on their bullshit, which itself is just a microcosm of how power works. The people in charge who make the decisions get to make them unilaterally and everyone else can either go along with it or get shut down and shut out. And the way they are treated serves to build credibility, everyone else's deference makes their actions have more weight, whether it's trump's insane rambling being ignored because the president can't be a raving nutcase, or biden's behaviour being ignored because the president can't be a disgusting creep. It's far more magnified when it's their guy, of course, but they were still craven even when it was a target as easy as trump. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 20:20
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Mellow Seas posted:Call me crazy but there's probably a better way of "publicizing Dem malfeasance" that doesn't involve the constant brain poisoning of 30-40% of the population to believe lies in the service of capital and fascism. You're crazy. That's not what she said.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:21
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Probably Magic posted:This isn't to go all USPol about this... this is the after-effect of rape culture. There's no more damaging sentiment than, "Well, everyone else is doing it, therefore...." Those Facebook friends seemed very convinced Biden had only done one rape versus Trump's untold number of ones, and that was because the media focused only one complaint... which is also what they did with Kavanaugh. That focus on a single narrative as opposed to a disturbing trend, from Biden getting kicked out a woman's dorm in college to allegations of Trump spying on Miss America Pageant contestants, is going to be the template of the future - "Can you prove this one case? If not, no other contextual evidence can be admitted." As someone who himself wasn't in a position to "prove" my victimizer's guilt, that does not encourage me. Yeah. Some of the most repulsive posts in this thread are those pointing out how many people said that they believed Biden over Reade, or how Lewinsky didn't negatively affect Clinton's standing.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:23
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Mellow Seas posted:Call me crazy but there's probably a better way of "publicizing Dem malfeasance" that doesn't involve the constant brain poisoning of 30-40% of the population to believe lies in the service of capital and fascism. The center wing has proven they're not either with their censorship. I don't know how to emphasize enough how the mistreatment of this situation is such a disqualifier for so many entities. Dammerung posted:It's one of the extreme difficulties about applying basic standards and preventing the spread of rape culture to politics. It's already a difficult sell when it comes to admonishing a widely beloved and known public figure like President Biden for being a creep. Factor in the possibility of another Trump win, not passing a massive infrastructure bill, etc., and you're going to get a lot of people who will be desperate to ignore or diminish it because they want what he's promising. Heck, I've encountered that in the past - it wasn't said, but it was pretty explicitly implied that creepy behavior was just something that was done because their work was so stressful, that it could damage the work being done if it was publicly addressed, it wasn't really that bad, and so on and so forth. It really does hurt to know that people you consider friends or colleagues believe this, I know that too. That's the refrain though, isn't it, and far more in politics. I even made this point to my acquaintances, though it went over their heads: We can't expose this priest because he's leading so many people to eternal salvation, we can't expose this cop because he's so close to finish up an important case, so on, so forth. That's how rape culture perpetuates, is elevating the status of the victimizer, which also means the type of people who become priests, cops, and politicians are the ones who want immunity from charges like rape. It's a very sick system. I was thinking about Ted Kennedy a lot yesterday, how difficult that situation is, how many more people would've been saved by Kennedy's health care plan than Carter's or Reagan's, and don't the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few? But that's an argument that relies on so much presumption, that Ted would've passed that program, that Ted wouldn't have done other awful things, that the type of guy who's okay raping people isn't okay with taking advantage of people in other capacities. Then I thought about how much harder it is to reject Kennedy than it is Biden, a guy who's actively done a shitload to hurt people. And I still would've. You can't let victimizers hold you hostage with their alleged personas. Justice should be for all.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:24
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Mellow Seas posted:Call me crazy but there's probably a better way of "publicizing Dem malfeasance" that doesn't involve the constant brain poisoning of 30-40% of the population to believe lies in the service of capital and fascism. There is, it's called independent media, but for some reason they also get handwaved away as far right ideologues every time they criticize Dems too 
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Aug 7, 2021 20:24
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