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BaldDwarfOnPCP posted:I want to see it work. I want to see the security theater actually catch someone. The NTSB and DHS never catch terrorists at the airport so if they're gonna be using our battery life and bandwidth for this I want to see mug shots and successful prosecutions. Make it real prominent and not on the DL that only phone nerds like us read about. Why would the NTSB be after terrorists?
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Aug 7, 2021 07:15
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Proteus Jones posted:Why would the NTSB be after terrorists? My dumb. Whichever alphabet soup is under DHS for airport security which I've momentarily forgotten. fake edit: TSA, not NTSB
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Aug 7, 2021 07:38
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Proteus Jones posted:Why would the NTSB be after terrorists? ask elon
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Aug 7, 2021 07:53
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Is it wrong to think this is a good thing? I want sickos gone.
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Aug 7, 2021 08:21
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Charles posted:Is it wrong to think this is a good thing? I want sickos gone. yes, you are wrong IMO. Read some posts above yours for the disturbing implications here.
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Aug 7, 2021 08:30
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Charles posted:Is it wrong to think this is a good thing? I want sickos gone. Random Country: “Hey if you want to sell iPhones here then you need to report images with these hashes here. Don’t worry it’s all legit.”
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Aug 7, 2021 10:00
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Are any of the new iOS 15 features compatibility-breaking if I were to have one device on the public beta and one just kept on iOS 14, like the reminders update from iOS 13? Thinking of testing my iPad out on the beta but leaving my iPhone for now. Edit: unrelated second question: kinda a bit sick my iPhone XS’s photos never looking great, usually by overdoing the contrast. Is there a way to save a preset filter of custom contrast/colour adjustments into the Photos app that I can apply quickly without duplicating or overwriting the original file? Thought Shortcuts might’ve been the way to go but it can’t do scripted photo edits. Question Mark Mound fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 12:27
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I haven’t found any…. Yet. Started off with iPad a couple betas ago and just installed on my phone, no issues so far. Watch is still on 7. Everything seems to be alright.
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Aug 7, 2021 15:00
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Charles posted:Is it wrong to think this is a good thing? I want sickos gone. Hey can you put cameras for the cops in your house? I swear we won't look at them unless activity matches our Crime Database. I'm sure you want less crime, so cameras in every room is no big deal. Oh, and we'll never, ever use this for anything else we promise.
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Aug 7, 2021 15:04
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They already do content hash matching in iCloud. This is moving it from in the cloud to on device. It has the potential to allow end to end encryption of iCloud photos. This is in fact a good move.
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Aug 7, 2021 15:19
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Proteus Jones posted:Hey can you put cameras for the cops in your house? I swear we won't look at them unless activity matches our Crime Database. I'm sure you want less crime, so cameras in every room is no big deal. Oh, and we'll never, ever use this for anything else we promise.
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Aug 7, 2021 15:42
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Kalman posted:The counterfactual to this situation isn’t Apple maintaining no on device scanning, it’s a legislative vehicle using CSAM as the pressure to force a much broader piece of legislation through that would mandate the kind of scanning people are concerned this will lead to. That’s exactly what happened with FOSTA/SESTA, in terms of Hill pressure, and this is Apple attempting to cut out the legs of the political pressure on them to make things like open law enforcement access a thing. I get really confused when people talk about this subject. Apple's products run proprietary software on proprietary hardware systems. How do we know that there aren't already backdoors in Apple products which allow government agencies open access into everybody's cell phones/data in the cloud/etc.? I just assume that the government already has the ability to do this.
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Aug 7, 2021 15:55
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The only reason I even keep nudes on my phone is to entertain the government agents that have to sift through all of it
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Aug 7, 2021 15:57
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 I’m just imagining my phone processor added to the bottom of this comic.
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Aug 7, 2021 16:01
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silence_kit posted:I get really confused when people talk about this subject. Apple's products run proprietary software on proprietary hardware systems. How do we know that there aren't already backdoors in Apple products which allow government agencies open access into everybody's cell phones/data in the cloud/etc.? I just assume that the government already has the ability to do this. I mean the FBI San Bernardino shooting lawsuit already proves they don't. Cloud data that isn't encrypted is accessible with a warrant. Apple is slowly encrypting more and more of the data they hold or moving it off their servers entirely. They don't want to know any more of your data then they have to.
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Aug 7, 2021 16:01
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FCKGW posted:I mean the FBI San Bernardino shooting lawsuit already proves they don't. The following is an unfalsifiable conspiracy-theorist type of statement: maybe that was just theatre. FCKGW posted:Cloud data that isn't encrypted is accessible with a warrant. Apple is slowly encrypting more and more of the data they hold or moving it off their servers entirely. They don't want to know any more of your data then they have to. I get confused when people talk about encryption. They talk about it like it is a binary thing. If a device/file is encrypted, then short of a super-computer brute-force attack which would take an expected 1 million years or whatever to crack, no unintended user can access the file. But it doesn't make sense to me why it needs to be a binary thing, and that companies couldn't/wouldn't put ways around it to permit access by government authorities. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 16:17 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 16:14
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Proteus Jones posted:Hey can you put cameras for the cops in your house? I swear we won't look at them unless activity matches our Crime Database. I'm sure you want less crime, so cameras in every room is no big deal. Oh, and we'll never, ever use this for anything else we promise. Bad analogy. The user takes the photos and the user uploads them to icloud.
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Aug 7, 2021 16:24
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I was afraid of this… IMO, It’s more analogous to the Ring doorbell camera. And as we’ve seen from that, there are a lot of people who couldn’t give two shits about privacy. It places a ton of trust in authority that I think is completely misplaced. “Of course I’m ok with the police accessing my camera at any time if it helps to fight crime” The police wouldn’t use it to target dissidents, or track minorities or frame people or anything like that I’m sure. Think of the children
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Aug 7, 2021 16:35
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silence_kit posted:I get confused when people talk about encryption. They talk about it like it is a binary thing. If a device/file is encrypted, then short of a super-computer brute-force attack which would take an expected 1 million years or whatever to crack, no unintended user can access the file. But it doesn't make sense to me why it needs to be a binary thing, and that companies couldn't/wouldn't put ways around it to permit access by government authorities. Double spaces after periods? You get confused a lot. If you design all the locks with a master key, that master key will be worth a lot. Apple doesn't want a master key to exist, otherwise they will have a major scandal on their hands once it inevitably gets stolen.
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Aug 7, 2021 16:36
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Charles posted:Bad analogy. The user takes the photos and the user uploads them to icloud. Isn't this the default behavior? Like, it's what strings photos taken on an iPhone to pop up on an iPad and Mac etc?
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Aug 7, 2021 18:54
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LODGE NORTH posted:Isn't this the default behavior? Like, it's what strings photos taken on an iPhone to pop up on an iPad and Mac etc? It wasn't on the phone I just set up, but it'll hound you to do so probably.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:11
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fourwood posted:This is only a barely functional analogy in the case where they’re just hashing your camera feeds against known child porn recordings. Or any hashes someone convinces Apple to add to the database. Better delete all your Winnie the Pooh memes before visiting China.
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Aug 7, 2021 19:31
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Yeah at first glance I was like, “cool my daughters won’t be subject to dick pics, or at least I’ll be notified when someone sends them,” but yeah, this big brother stuff and it’s potential is pretty gross.
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Aug 7, 2021 20:59
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Charles posted:Is it wrong to think this is a good thing? I want sickos gone. Extremely wrong, but you’re in the majority of people who don’t think too hard about these things. What Apple is proposing in this new system is scanning every image you upload to identify matches against a known sample of CSAM images, meaning the only thing it’s going to identify is people who download known collections of CSAM on their phones then upload to iCloud, which while it may grab a few sickos will broadly do nothing to stop child abuse. The vast majority of child sexuality abuse is committed by someone close to the child, not random sickos wandering around with hoards of child porn on their phones. As it stands the system will accomplish little or nothing while laying the foundation for future abuse of privacy and security. I honestly believe this is being pushed for ulterior long term motives because the plan as described is stupid as gently caress.
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Aug 7, 2021 21:10
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Yeah at first glance I was like, “cool my daughters won’t be subject to dick pics, or at least I’ll be notified when someone sends them,” but yeah, this big brother stuff and it’s potential is pretty gross. Doesn't do any of that to boot. It only recognizes images fed to the system. Best-case scenario it's legal rear end-covering for end to end encrypted cloud storage.
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Aug 7, 2021 21:30
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endlessmonotony posted:Doesn't do any of that to boot. It only recognizes images fed to the system.
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Aug 7, 2021 21:40
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endlessmonotony posted:Doesn't do any of that to boot. It only recognizes images fed to the system. yeah, there's a separate "tool" that will enable content scanning for child accounts that will hide "bad" content and then alert the parents if the child opts to still view/send it, iirc. i might have some of the small details wrong, but there is a portion of it that is scanning messages content.
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Aug 7, 2021 21:50
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Wheeee posted:Extremely wrong, but you’re in the majority of people who don’t think too hard about these things. Just to be clear, from what I understand this is already happening with every major hosting service and has been for years. The only thing changing is the processing is happening on the phone before upload (and only for files being uploaded) instead of in ~the cloud~
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Aug 7, 2021 21:57
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For a detailed, level-headed analysis, TidBITS has a pretty good read. https://tidbits.com/2021/08/07/faq-about-apples-expanded-protections-for-children/
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Aug 7, 2021 22:17
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rafikki posted:Just to be clear, from what I understand this is already happening with every major hosting service and has been for years. The only thing changing is the processing is happening on the phone before upload (and only for files being uploaded) instead of in ~the cloud~ It is, but now that scanning is moving on device (If you use iCloud Photos, if you don't your photos are just part of your backup) via a "black box" that scans against known hashes. If you're flagged above X number of times that material goes to Apple for a manual review before they send your name to the FBI. The question is, what's in that black box? Nobody outside of Reddit and Crypto forums supports CSAM, but now that Pandora's box is open what's to keep China from demanding Apple scan for their own "illegal material" that contains hashes for Tiananmen tank guy, or the aforementioned Winnie the Poo memes? Maybe the UAE wants to get serious about that death penalty for homosexuality thing and demands Apple scan for hashes of gay porn? It's not a slippery slope, it's just a matter of aim. Apple says this can't be abused- from the NY Times "Mr. Neuenschwander dismissed those concerns, saying that safeguards are in place to prevent abuse of the system and that Apple would reject any such demands from a government." So, in order to feel safe about this all you have to do is believe is that Apple would be willing to potentially give up their Dubai or (lol) China revenue by openly defying their governments.
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Aug 7, 2021 22:25
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this seems like a really bad idea for a corporation whose proposition to customers is that they respect your right to privacy such that they intentionally design their systems to obfuscate your identity and prevent you from being identified even if their hands are forced by law like Apple specifically caters to middle and upper class consumers who buy whatever they choose with low price sensitivity, and a large part of their value proposition beyond the well-curated ecosystem is that you’re their customer, not their product as with data-mining competitors. it’s a big part of why i gave iphone a chance recently and decided to switch over, and while i’m not worried about this specific program it absolutely undermines my confidence in Apple and my willingness to fully invest in their ecosystem long term
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Aug 7, 2021 22:48
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John Gruber has a good article on it as well where he talks about the three different things that Apple announced: Apple’s New ‘Child Safety’ Initiatives, and the Slippery Slope Henrik Zetterberg posted:Yeah at first glance I was like, “cool my daughters won’t be subject to dick pics, or at least I’ll be notified when someone sends them,” but yeah, this big brother stuff and it’s potential is pretty gross. That tool is only usable on accounts where the child is 12 or younger: quote:The Messages feature is specifically only for children in a shared iCloud family account. If you’re an adult, nothing is changing with regard to any photos you send or receive through Messages. And if you’re a parent with children whom the feature could apply to, you’ll need to explicitly opt in to enable the feature. It will not turn on automatically when your devices are updated to iOS 15. If a child sends or receives (and chooses to view) an image that triggers a warning, the notification is sent from the child’s device to the parents’ devices — Apple itself is not notified, nor is law enforcement. These parental notifications are only for children 12 or younger in a family iCloud account; parents do not have the option of receiving notifications for teenagers, although teenagers can receive the content warnings on their devices. Also, difference between the iMessages and iCloud thing: quote:The Messages features for children in iCloud family accounts is doing content analysis to try to identify sexually explicit photos, but is not checking image fingerprint hashes against the database of CSAM fingerprints. This part should raise everyone's alarm: quote:The database will be part of iOS 15, and is a database of fingerprints, not images. Apple does not have the images in NCMEC’s library of known CSAM, and in fact cannot — NCMEC is the only organization in the U.S. that is legally permitted to possess these photos. It's not like this US federal government has ever abused a secret list to prevent people from flying without ever informing them that they're on said list or why they're on said list or even giving them an option to appeal to be removed from said list. And notably, this image scanning thing will only be for US based users. Imagine if China or Saudi Arabia told Apple "hey, if you want to do business in our country then you need to scan uploaded pictures for these hashes too, I promise you it's only child porn nothing nefarious."
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Aug 7, 2021 23:35
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While NCMEC receives government funding, they are not part of the US government. If the NCMEC database gets polluted, it wouldn't just pollute Apple, it would pollute anyone who relies on it, and a lot of organizations rely on it.
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Aug 8, 2021 00:15
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Boris Galerkin posted:It's not like this US federal government has ever abused a secret list to prevent people from flying without ever informing them that they're on said list or why they're on said list or even giving them an option to appeal to be removed from said list. And notably, this image scanning thing will only be for US based users. Imagine if China or Saudi Arabia told Apple "hey, if you want to do business in our country then you need to scan uploaded pictures for these hashes too, I promise you it's only child porn nothing nefarious." The real slippery slope is when, knowing the code is right there on millions of devices, you remove the iCloud requirement with a law mandating scans and any of those nasty harmful illegal material hash matches have to be included anytime the device phones home- software updates, backup restores, analytics, etc or just for the hell of it. Apple could fight that in some courts, but could they walk away from India or China even they wanted to at this point?
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Aug 8, 2021 00:17
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So I want to upgrade my phone and was thinking of the iPhone 13, especially since the Pro model should have 120HZ screen. However, according to leaks Apple is going to go all out with the iPhone 14. Should I just wait another year or should I follow the "if you wait for the next big thing you'll be waiting forever" saying?
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Aug 8, 2021 01:09
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punk rebel ecks posted:"if you wait for the next big thing you'll be waiting forever"
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Aug 8, 2021 01:26
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fourwood posted:This, plus the extra caveat that nobody knows anything until the 2nd Tuesday in September or whatever, let alone next September. Any speculation about iPhone 14 is extremely just that: speculation.
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Aug 8, 2021 03:00
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punk rebel ecks posted:So I want to upgrade my phone and was thinking of the iPhone 13, especially since the Pro model should have 120HZ screen. To use an analogy from the car industry, always buy the mid-cycle refresh. Early adopters of new tech are often beta testers in effect, the iPhone 13 will be the perfected final form of what began with iPhone 12. Then in a couple years the iPhone 15 will be a 14 with the bugs worked out and some general improvements, and so on.
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Aug 8, 2021 04:59
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Boris Galerkin posted:That tool is only usable on accounts where the child is 12 or younger: Seems kind of odd to allow free flow of dick picks to 13yos….
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Aug 8, 2021 05:05
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Henrik Zetterberg posted:Seems kind of odd to allow free flow of dick picks to 13yos…. The younger than 13 cohort is for the parental alert setting (which itself is optionally set by the parent). For the 13 and above, the parental alert can't be set at all. It's more of a "Are you sure you want to sennd/view this?" TBH a filter for unsolicited dick pics would probably be handy for a bunch of people, if it was an opt-in feature.
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Aug 8, 2021 05:20
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