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So I started the Souls trilogy a month ago with a friend of mine and we're now into DS2. He played a caster and I played a melee tank in DS1, now we're doing the opposite in DS2. He's pretty much gone in blind and isn't the kind of guy who will pick up a lot of the subtle story cues, but I've been devouring lore and lore videos ever since we started and I can't get enough. Watching my friend fight Artorias for about six hours straight, gradually learning his attack patterns until he finally beat him was amazing, especially after I shield-turtled both Artorias and Manus on like my second attempt at each. The hate that gets heaped on DS2 is mind-boggling to me. I get that on release the game was vastly inferior to the current SotFS version, and that the DLC seem to have completed it, but the game is just fantastic. The lore surrounding the shards of Manus and their role in the downfalls of all these kingdoms are fascinating to me. I've only just finished Sinner's Rise, so I've got a lot left before I can make a full judgment on this game, but both my friend and I agree that it isn't inferior to Dark Souls Remastered as far as we're concerned and have seen thus far. The environments are also beautiful and Majula is a really cool hub. I get that the game changes quite a bit from DS1, but it still has much of the same essence to me. The story seems a little tighter as well - I fell in love with DS1's environmental storytelling and the subtle way that you can derive a lot of the world's context if you pay attention to dialogues, item descriptions, etc, but DS2 seems like a fierce competitor thus far. I'm hoping DS3 is just as good, a few of my friends have told me it plays a bit more "casually."
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Aug 7, 2021 00:22
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| # ? May 9, 2024 22:36 |
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Release DS2 was mostly better than the SOTFS version of the base game, if that makes sense. More broken in some ways (lightning miracles nuking everything, or bat fog lmao), but also more fun. I definitely wouldn’t call it “vastly inferior” since, y’know, they’re not really all that different. The only big change where I think SOTFS unambiguously comes out on top is the earlier access to the Dull Ember. The DLCs are the best part of the game which is part of what i don’t like about it. These optional challenge zones end up being more fun and having a more compelling story and atmosphere than most of the critical path.
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Aug 7, 2021 00:32
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Right, I was just thinking of SotFS as the complete version of the game with the DLC, and how everyone seems to universally consider DS2+DLC as way better than base DS2. I haven't and probably will never play the original game with the DLCs added on so I can't comment on the differences, but so far this version seems good! I saw that it corrects a lot of bad item descriptions and enemies that weren't in very logical places, but I can see where that might not necessarily make it a more fun game to play. I also just picked up the Dull Ember while I was playing earlier so I'll have to check out its usefulness Tosk fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Aug 7, 2021 |
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Aug 7, 2021 00:37
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Bat fog?
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Aug 7, 2021 00:42
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if you cast dark frog from the bat staff it instantly applied the super poison without any buildup, which was super annoying
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Aug 7, 2021 00:59
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Malleum posted:dark frog Anyway yeah, it instantly poisoned whoever you cast it on and also served as an amazing smoke screen for you to spam dark orbs as a follow up. It was absolute murder in any kind of confined space.
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Aug 7, 2021 01:09
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gently caress
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Aug 7, 2021 01:10
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 Dark frog
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Aug 7, 2021 01:12
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Oh wow lol, I'm assuming that got patched along with the lightning
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Aug 7, 2021 01:23
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skasion posted:
 Dark frog
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Aug 7, 2021 01:30
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Drakyn posted:
Elden ring looking good. Tosk posted:Right, I was just thinking of SotFS as the complete version of the game with the DLC, and how everyone seems to universally consider DS2+DLC as way better than base DS2. 2 got a lot of tweaks and patches over time that modified many things the initial players still have residual trauma from, like the original Shrine of Amana, the bugged attack AI on the Drakekeeper knights, making the Covenant of Champions respawn normal mobs so you can farm for upgrade materials or souls and not run out of dudes, etc. Scholar added on a revised lighting engine that was a decent bump up, on top of the rejiggering of enemy & item placement. Add on that a better collective understanding of all the dumb opaque stats, and even base 2 is in a much better state than it was. I like the changes in Scholar, so I think it's a good complete edition of the game. As far as DS3 goes, I'd say it's great, too. It's doing its own take on "Being a sequel to DS1." You can tell that they were running short on time at the end, but the game is more compact than 2 or maybe even 1, so they could use their time more efficiently to polish bosses and make even the obviously abridged ending levels look fancy. skasion posted:The DLCs are the best part of the game which is part of what i don’t like about it. These optional challenge zones end up being more fun and having a more compelling story and atmosphere than most of the critical path. Eh, I mean, between DS1, DS2, Bloodborne, and DS3, I'd say the only game where the DLC additions don't have the peak-est atmosphere, storytelling, and fun bosses is maaaaybe 3. And even then, I think Ariandel as a standalone DLC is kind of dull but the Ringed City is great as a capstone to the Souls games.
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Aug 7, 2021 17:19
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skasion posted:Release DS2 was mostly better than the SOTFS version of the base game, if that makes sense. More broken in some ways (lightning miracles nuking everything, or bat fog lmao), but also more fun. I definitely wouldn’t call it “vastly inferior” since, y’know, they’re not really all that different. The only big change where I think SOTFS unambiguously comes out on top is the earlier access to the Dull Ember. i kinda liked the op miracles, but it was something that was best experienced just once nothing like annihilating hollows from a map away, a lighting chime in one hand and binoculars in the other
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Aug 7, 2021 19:08
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Hi popping back in from my massive Sunday dark souls sesh to say gently caress black gulch forever
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Aug 8, 2021 23:08
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Shoehead posted:Hi popping back in from my massive Sunday dark souls sesh to say gently caress black gulch forever Do you (the thread in general) feel that DS2 throws the most NPC phantoms at the player out of all the souls games? I keep getting peeved at some idiot invading at an inappropriate moment, before realising that it's an NPC. In short, gently caress Amourer Dennis.
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Aug 8, 2021 23:39
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For me, I can't stand seeing Forlorn. WAY too common.
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Aug 8, 2021 23:55
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DS2 is the only game where you can get invaded even while not human, so I think it feels like there's more NPC invasions because you're not skipping them on accident. That said, I do think SotFS added a bunch more so it might also have the most numerically. I guess this is a distinction without a difference.
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Aug 9, 2021 00:23
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Elissimpark posted:Do you (the thread in general) feel that DS2 throws the most NPC phantoms at the player out of all the souls games? Almost half of the overall number of NPC invasions (including Dennis) were added in SotFS, and like most new or relocated enemies in SotFS they seem like they're balanced around the player having the knowledge or tools of having already played through the game once already. There were already a few NPC phantom invaders in the vanilla game that only invaded in NG+; they could have moved most of the new ones there to make NG+ more lively.
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Aug 9, 2021 00:41
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Zesty posted:For me, I can't stand seeing Forlorn. WAY too common. Forlorn is dumb because IIRC he's extremely random (outside of the special Aldia's Keep ones). In my Scholar playthrough I think I saw him...maybe twice total? But he's got like a dozen spawn points.
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Aug 9, 2021 00:49
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Forlorn seems like he always or almost always spawns at some places, but is rare at others. The bottom left tier of Copse in particularly always seems to trigger him.
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Aug 9, 2021 00:52
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gtrmp posted:Almost half of the overall number of NPC invasions (including Dennis) were added in SotFS, and like most new or relocated enemies in SotFS they seem like they're balanced around the player having the knowledge or tools of having already played through the game once already. There were already a few NPC phantom invaders in the vanilla game that only invaded in NG+; they could have moved most of the new ones there to make NG+ more lively. The bolded bit is a notion I've seen put forth quite about about SotFS and I have to say I'm perplexed by it. I bought Dark Souls 2 when it came out but bounced HARD off of it; I didn't even beat any of the Four Old Ones. It wasn't until SotFS and my friend's pleading that I give it another shot that I managed to do even that, beat the game, and Dark Souls 2 as Best Souls 2. I can't say that I ever felt myself as at a loss or disadvantage for not having already played through it once before. I will agree that Armorer Dennis is an rear end in a top hat, though.
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Aug 9, 2021 00:55
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skasion posted:Forlorn seems like he always or almost always spawns at some places, but is rare at others. The bottom left tier of Copse in particularly always seems to trigger him. That checks out, that's one of the ones I remember getting and have seen other people get most often of the bunch. One of the goofy ones I remember existing is the narrow walkway that shortcuts past Smelter Demon.
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Aug 9, 2021 01:59
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i am tim! posted:The bolded bit is a notion I've seen put forth quite about about SotFS and I have to say I'm perplexed by it. I bought Dark Souls 2 when it came out but bounced HARD off of it; I didn't even beat any of the Four Old Ones. It wasn't until SotFS and my friend's pleading that I give it another shot that I managed to do even that, beat the game, and Dark Souls 2 as Best Souls 2. I can't say that I ever felt myself as at a loss or disadvantage for not having already played through it once before. A lot of the new and remixed stuff is specifically more challenging, like the back-to-back invaders at the entrance to Iron Keep, the additional knights in the Tower of Flame who turn aggro once you've beaten a boss there, the midboss Pursuer spawns, or the fact that the increased aggro range makes areas like the first open chamber in Iron Keep much less carefully paced than they were before. The new invaders in particular can be pretty nasty in comparison to the ones from the base game, in terms of both their behavior and their placement. Some of the new Fragrant Branch statue locations likewise come off like they're adding an obstacle for the sake of adding an obstacle; Black Gulch isn't so large that it needed a second bonfire, and locking it behind a branch doesn't change that.
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Aug 9, 2021 02:32
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Elissimpark posted:Do you (the thread in general) feel that DS2 throws the most NPC phantoms at the player out of all the souls games? The NPC in Black Gultch kept invading me even after I defeated him, he was probably the meanest red NPC placement I've seen. I was also invaded by a human after hitting the hidden bonfire there and despite him being poisoned he kicked my rear end like all human invaders. I was down to my last 4 or so effigies too because I wanted to do Lucatiel's story and she kept getting smushed. I like seeing the Forlorn, he feels like I have my own personal Team Rocket. He's like the anti Persuer. Let me walk into NG+ into a super Forlorn bossfight or something. That chump
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Aug 9, 2021 04:19
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Elissimpark posted:Do you (the thread in general) feel that DS2 throws the most NPC phantoms at the player out of all the souls games? Absolutely, and Scholar adds more. It's significantly more than DS1 and DS3, too. DS1 has 7 NPC invasion encounters, DS3 has 14, and DS2 has ~45, though some of those are contingent on being offline or being dumb with Navlaan. My personal theory is that DS2 was trying to soften anxiety around invaders built up from the negativity around DS1 invasions, both by flooding you with so many it feels more normal and harder to tell when a real human pops in, and also just to demonstrate that invasions in 2 really aren't that bad. Some of those casters can be really bullshit to start with, but honestly their AI is about on level with a regular middling-skill human invader, and it's a good way to practice fighting another human-ish thing.
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Aug 9, 2021 04:44
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Nuns with Guns posted:being dumb with Navlaan.  oops
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Aug 9, 2021 05:01
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I also played SotFS first and never had a particular problem with it, aside from not quite knowing how durability was different at first and thus stranding myself as a Deprived with nothing but broken weapons at the first Forest of Fallen Giants bonfire. It was hard in parts, but that's just Dark Souls. Also yes, the phantoms in DS2 are the best they've ever been in the series. They're even set up in specific ways to help you through particular parts. That dark corridor in FoFG with the skeletons has Ruined Alfis, who casts a light spell so you can see without needing to have a torch out. Bradley of the Old Guard has healing miracles he'll cast if you stand next to him (helpful in a level as big as No Man's Wharf) and his phantom shows that he's a member of the Pilgrims of Dark.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:07
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People get really steamed about the invaders they added to Iron Keep, but 1) they're like 20 feet away from the bonfire big deal and 2) it's From directly responding to how people turned that bridge into a fight club and I think that's super cool!!Djeser posted:Also yes, the phantoms in DS2 are the best they've ever been in the series. SELL SWORD LUET
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Aug 9, 2021 05:14
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Shoehead posted:The NPC in Black Gultch kept invading me even after I defeated him There are two different NPCs with nearly-identical names who invade there in almost exactly the same spot. It's pretty dumb.
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Aug 9, 2021 06:08
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Seed of a Tree of Giants + Lone Hunter Schmidt + Bashful Ray + Woodland Child Victor + Woodland Child Gully just get a whole load of nonsense going on
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Aug 9, 2021 06:51
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gtrmp posted:There are two different NPCs with nearly-identical names who invade there in almost exactly the same spot. Aghhh those fucks. My first fight with one of them ended when I smashed one off the cliff and they survived by landing on the secret ledge. Miserable placement all around. Gonna reset the entire universe just to delete Black Gultch and it'll be worth it
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Aug 9, 2021 07:25
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I missed out on Ornifex due to her getting killed by basilisks. How feasible is it to start in NG+ and beeline for her immediately?
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Aug 9, 2021 07:34
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TeaJay posted:I missed out on Ornifex due to her getting killed by basilisks. How feasible is it to start in NG+ and beeline for her immediately?
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Aug 9, 2021 07:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3jleaLGBog
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Aug 9, 2021 07:49
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Nuns with Guns posted:Absolutely, and Scholar adds more. It's significantly more than DS1 and DS3, too. DS1 has 7 NPC invasion encounters, DS3 has 14, and DS2 has ~45, though some of those are contingent on being offline or being dumb with Navlaan. This was pretty much my experience with pvp and Dark Souls. I hated DS1 pvp after just a few tries, but I absolutely came to love pvp in DS2 after the game forced it down my throat.
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Aug 9, 2021 10:51
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gtrmp posted:There are two different NPCs with nearly-identical names who invade there in almost exactly the same spot. Both of them summon at once if you have help, you can summon all the npc phantoms and let them square off against the invaders while you watch
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Aug 9, 2021 14:43
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Double Plus Undead posted:DS2 is the only game where you can get invaded even while not human, so I think it feels like there's more NPC invasions because you're not skipping them on accident. Ah, I thought something was up. I usually play hollow when exploring an area so I don't get interrupted because I really enjoy that aspect of the game. Zesty posted:...Forlorn... He spawned in Black Gulch for me, and I was convinced it was some rear end in a top hat up late just invading randomly in the area and I just happened to keep copping them. I burnt an effigy before I clicked they were an NPC. "Forlorn" sounds like a genuine player name as opposed to the usual [occupation] [silly name] or [odd name] the [verb]er combos NPCs have. Nuns with Guns posted:Absolutely, and Scholar adds more. It's significantly more than DS1 and DS3, too. DS1 has 7 NPC invasion encounters, DS3 has 14, and DS2 has ~45, though some of those are contingent on being offline or being dumb with Navlaan. This makes sense. I swear the AI for NPC invaders has them bow or wave occaisionally, which is confusing. And they do the circling and waiting thing that real players will do. Which thinking about it, is a pretty nifty thing on the developer's part. I think I'm coming to understand why this is a lot of people's favorite Souls game.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:35
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A lot of the friendly NPC phantoms will do a gesture at you after they first run up to you. There's even one invader, I think it might be in the DLCs, who uses a stone carving after killing you.
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Aug 9, 2021 17:51
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Elissimpark posted:He spawned in Black Gulch for me, and I was convinced it was some rear end in a top hat up late just invading randomly in the area and I just happened to keep copping them. I burnt an effigy before I clicked they were an NPC. "Forlorn" sounds like a genuine player name as opposed to the usual [occupation] [silly name] or [odd name] the [verb]er combos NPCs have. Some people exploit this, such as the guy who invaded me on the way to drangleic castle that I thought was an npc invader until he dismantled everything I did. He even did the 180 UGS turn that npcs do
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Aug 9, 2021 18:20
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if you get defeated by that you are actually the NPC, sorry it's the law
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Aug 9, 2021 18:34
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It would be cool that online pvp (or a covenant) sometimes made you actually spawn as Forlorn or other npcs, limited to the NPC's loadouts, spells and weapons. Something like Old Monk from DeS.
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Aug 9, 2021 19:45
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