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CommieGIR posted:You know what I meant. Aren't companies required by law to always maximise their profits? So, if an ISP started cancelling all their customers on the say-so of another company, couldn't they face legal action from their shareholders? No idea how likely that is, but it's funny to think about.
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Aug 8, 2021 14:22
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Aren't companies required by law to always maximise their profits? So, if an ISP started cancelling all their customers on the say-so of another company, couldn't they face legal action from their shareholders? no, that was a postulate from Friedman (I think) which was then taken up by libertarians who don't understand things. In practice, anyone can bring a suit about anything, but winning is extremely unlikely - the job of managers is to manage, and the job of shareholders is to pick the board who can hire or fire the CEO who picks the managers.
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Aug 8, 2021 15:08
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divabot posted:no, that was a postulate from Friedman (I think) which was then taken up by libertarians who don't understand things. In practice, anyone can bring a suit about anything, but winning is extremely unlikely - the job of managers is to manage, and the job of shareholders is to pick the board who can hire or fire the CEO who picks the managers. I think shareholder primacy in the US dates back to at least Dodge v Ford in 1919.
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Aug 8, 2021 16:50
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MickeyFinn posted:I think shareholder primacy in the US dates back to at least Dodge v Ford in 1919. it's a fiduciary mandate not a legal one
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Aug 8, 2021 17:01
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BiggerBoat posted:I read an article yesterday that was talking about car makers having to put that DUI blower thing in it in order for it to start. I mean, preventing drunk driving is great but for some reason I can see this device becoming a problem. I worked for a small company many years ago that made extremely sensitive trace gas detectors for the semiconductor industry, and we briefly looked at getting into the ignition interlock market. Our conclusions were (a) the current (15 years ago) technology really sucked, (b) we could easily make a more sensitive and more robust sensor by adapting the products we already sold, and (c) there was no way our little company was going to touch the legal liabilities associated with both false-positive and false-negative detection. Then we got bought out by a semiconductor fabrication company and that was the last of it.
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Aug 9, 2021 05:25
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Divabot, how many avatars has Seraph bought you at this point?
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Aug 9, 2021 09:17
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Megillah Gorilla posted:Aren't companies required by law to always maximise their profits? So, if an ISP started cancelling all their customers on the say-so of another company, couldn't they face legal action from their shareholders? the reason the isps comply with those demands in the first place it is because they expect it to cost less in the long run by avoiding lawsuits from the RIAA etc they're already following the path of greatest profit
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Aug 9, 2021 09:37
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:the reason the isps comply with those demands in the first place it is because they expect it to cost less in the long run by avoiding lawsuits from the RIAA etc I also doubt that cancelling movie/music pirates would greatly reduce revenue for the ISPs. I don't think most people in the US do that anymore, especially with music.
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Aug 9, 2021 11:57
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It didn't help at the time that anti-piracy was combined with a stubborn refusal to embrace digital distribution channels. Oddly enough it was TV and film that was slowest about this, hence Netflix and such. Piracy is and always has been 98% a service issue, that the owner will not provide the content through easily available avenues at a reasonable price, so the consumers turn to more easily available and convenient channels. Either that or the consumers are too poor and were never going to buy the product anyway,
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Aug 9, 2021 12:36
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Piracy is and always has been 98% a service issue, that the owner will not provide the content through easily available avenues at a reasonable price, so the consumers turn to more easily available and convenient channels. Either that or the consumers are too poor and were never going to buy the product anyway, Undoubtedly this is true to some degree, but these kinds of arguments always reeked to me of pirates making moral justifications for their actions. They always felt like they had this entitlement to watch movies and listen to music that I honestly never understood.
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Aug 9, 2021 12:47
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silence_kit posted:Undoubtedly this is true to some degree, but these kinds of arguments always reeked to me of pirates making moral justifications for their actions. They always felt like they had this entitlement to watch movies and listen to music that I honestly never understood. I think this is something where the proof is readily available though. I don't know anyone who pirates music or PC Games since the release of Spotify / Steam. It's possible that the convenience argument was originally a rationalisation, but ultimately it was proven correct for most people.
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Aug 9, 2021 13:11
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Most people like doing the thing that's most convenient/easiest: And when they want to watch something specific, they'll either pay for it for pirate it. Moral arguments whether people are entitled to seeing some Hollywood dross or not are irrelevant.
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Aug 9, 2021 13:17
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Fame Douglas posted:Moral arguments whether people are entitled to seeing some Hollywood dross or not are irrelevant. Oddly enough though, when the subject turned to the MPAA/RIAA prosecuting people under the law for piracy, you would hear about how bad and wrong the MPAA/RIAA were for doing that. Of course it was a moral justification/argument for piracy. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 13:37 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 13:35
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silence_kit posted:Oddly enough though, when the subject turned to the MPAA/RIAA prosecuting people under the law for piracy, you would hear about how bad and wrong the MPAA/RIAA were for doing that. The two things are not on the same level. A pirate pirating some music costs a multibillion dollar company  . The MPAA using some college kid ruins their life. Even if they're innocent due to the legal fees.
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Aug 9, 2021 13:42
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The real tricky bit is the fact that the people who pirate the most also tend to buy way more than normals.
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Aug 9, 2021 14:09
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:the reason the isps comply with those demands in the first place it is because they expect it to cost less in the long run by avoiding lawsuits from the RIAA etc It's also really loving easy to follow along without losing customers. You just say "hey we detected you may have somebody on your network doing illegal poo poo, here is the extremely specific example we have received from the copyright infringement company. Make sure you knock that poo poo off" And the stupid people will simply stop pirating stuff. The smart people will start using a VPN. The dumbasses will get Strike 2 if they don't stop. I haven't heard of somebody getting Strike 3.
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Aug 9, 2021 14:10
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Calumanjaro posted:The two things are not on the same level. A pirate pirating some music costs a multibillion dollar company Yeah, there is obviously a power disparity. But did that really happen that often--the MPAA going after a kid who pirated a few movies vs. someone who majorly distributed pirated movies? Goons often do this thing where on the subject of crime, they get all realpolitik, but when the subject turns to criminals facing consequences for their actions, they become the biggest moralists ever.
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Aug 9, 2021 14:16
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Can we not tediously rehash the morality of piracy. That's very 2010. Artists deserve to be paid for their work, however the corporate vampires that run the entertainment industry are definitely more evil than even the worse pirate and are defintely getting the gulag when the revolution comes. It is possible to theoretically support the need for copyright, while also recognizing that the current system is often anti-consumer in the worst way and that the lawsuits stemming from it are often extremly predatory and specifically work by trying to scare people into not looking up their rights.
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Aug 9, 2021 14:17
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Beelzebufo posted:Can we not tediously rehash the morality of piracy. *follows statement with lengthy post containing a moral justification for piracy* silence_kit fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 14:26
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Beelzebufo posted:Can we not tediously rehash the morality of piracy. That's very 2010. Artists deserve to be paid for their work, however the corporate vampires that run the entertainment industry are definitely more evil than even the worse pirate and are defintely getting the gulag when the revolution comes. It is possible to theoretically support the need for copyright, while also recognizing that the current system is often anti-consumer in the worst way and that the lawsuits stemming from it are often extremly predatory and specifically work by trying to scare people into not looking up their rights. Pirates are better at preserving media than corporations
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Aug 9, 2021 14:34
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Beelzebufo posted:Can we not tediously rehash the morality of piracy. That's very 2010. Artists deserve to be paid for their work, however the corporate vampires that run the entertainment industry are definitely more evil than even the worse pirate and are defintely getting the gulag when the revolution comes. It is possible to theoretically support the need for copyright, while also recognizing that the current system is often anti-consumer in the worst way and that the lawsuits stemming from it are often extremly predatory and specifically work by trying to scare people into not looking up their rights. Artists do deserve to be paid for their work. And while the MPAA/RIAA claim that's their goal, that's not what they are protecting.
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Aug 9, 2021 14:39
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Literally the only way to see the pre-1997 Star Wars trilogy in a format better than a letterboxed laserdisc is to pirate it. Until the media cartels do a better job with preservation than the pirates, they can go scream into their pillow about piracy.
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Aug 9, 2021 14:42
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Beelzebufo posted:Can we not tediously rehash the morality of piracy. That's very 2010. Artists deserve to be paid for their work, however the corporate vampires that run the entertainment industry are definitely more evil than even the worse pirate and are defintely getting the gulag when the revolution comes. It is possible to theoretically support the need for copyright, while also recognizing that the current system is often anti-consumer in the worst way and that the lawsuits stemming from it are often extremly predatory and specifically work by trying to scare people into not looking up their rights. Pirate albums, buy merch. The bands will love you for it.
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Aug 9, 2021 14:54
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silence_kit posted:Yeah, there is obviously a power disparity. But did that really happen that often--the MPAA going after a kid who pirated a few movies vs. someone who majorly distributed pirated movies? Yes! https://www.eff.org/cases/mpaa-v-people https://www.wired.com/2008/06/mpaa-says-no-pr/ https://www.nexttv.com/news/mpaa-sues-individuals-over-swapping-78896 SimonChris fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 14:58
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Australia is one of the biggest pirates of drat near everything simply because most studios don't release their poo poo here or make you pay the "Australia tax" for itquote:In Australia, Adobe's Creative Suite 6 Master Collection costs AU$4,344 for a boxed copy, or AU$3,949 for a digital copy which is GST exempt. In the United States, the exact same product will cost you AU$2,513 - a difference in price of AU$1,831 over the boxed copy (AU$1,436 over digital). And this doesn't even cover DVD and Blu-ray zones which exclude Australia from 90% of all content made in the world. And the huge delay for anything coming over here. I have a Hellboy DVD which I purchased on Amazon which arrived here before the movie even premièred in this country. It's a small world now, no one is going to wait a year or more for the latest hotness to be released over here if they can download it in minutes. If I like something I will do all I can to give the creators my money. The problem is that in many cases there is literally no way for me to do this. The one exception is Foxtel which is owned by Murdoch and I will burn in loving hell before I give that ghoul one single cent of my money. EDIT: almost forgot - Australian Netflix has barely a third of the content of the US version. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 14:58
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silence_kit posted:*follows statement with lengthy post containing a moral justification for piracy* Piracy is a moral imperative actually.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:12
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silence_kit posted:*follows statement with lengthy post containing a moral justification for piracy* The morality of piracy is basically irrelevant because people are going to do it, and more people do it the more annoying it is to get media legally. You could prove conclusively from first principles that it's wrong wrong wrong and it won't change jack poo poo. TheScott2K posted:Literally the only way to see the pre-1997 Star Wars trilogy in a format better than a letterboxed laserdisc is to pirate it. Until the media cartels do a better job with preservation than the pirates, they can go scream into their pillow about piracy. There are also tons of niche/cult movies that are tough to find. Like, stuff that was only ever released on tape, or as a DVD where the subtitles crap out partway through. I wish more companies would toss their single country properties onto streaming services and crowdsource the subtitles, but I have no idea what can be done about owners and creators all being defunct/dead.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:24
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Blue Footed Booby posted:The morality of piracy is basically irrelevant because people are going to do it, and more people do it the more annoying it is to get media legally. You could prove conclusively from first principles that it's wrong wrong wrong and it won't change jack poo poo. Eh, I'd argue that IP squatting and stuff like Disney's vault'ing of media makes piracy really the only alternative. Not to mention that for the most part, especially on older media, the funds pretty much go directly to the studio and no one else, you are not paying any artists. They are practically sitting on cultural artifacts so they can line their pockets.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:26
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Did Disney ever pay those royalties to the Star Wars novelists or nah?
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Aug 9, 2021 15:35
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This video essay about how piracy is good actually mostly relates to video games but it also applies to other media formats. There's a lot of points, but basically piracy keeps works alive and even benefits the IP owner since it creates a new demand for something that would have just languished in a vault otherwise. His point about how the zoomers in his discord channel didn't understand what a Klobb was is a pretty striking example how cultural references can get lost pretty quickly, even if a work was a massive pop culture phenomenon at one point.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:44
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Sinbad's Sex Tape posted:Did Disney ever pay those royalties to the Star Wars novelists or nah? Probably no because they said they didn't buy the royalty obligations when they got the rights to the books.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:45
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I was all behind movie/TV streaming until it got to the point I had to go to 3rd party websites like justwatch to figure out what service I needed to load to watch the movie I wanted.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:45
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Mega Comrade posted:I was all behind movie/TV streaming until it got to the point I had to go to 3rd party websites like justwatch to figure out what service I needed to load to watch the movie I wanted. Yeah the problem is that Streaming could've really taken piracy down a notch and been a financial win, but Disney and others all encouraged spinning their own streaming services rather than consolidating, and that's all she wrote. Nobody wants to pay for 3-5 streaming services.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:53
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Disney cleaned up for the whole Star Wars canon by simplifying it to just the movies, and the new (tv, movie, game???) stuff they make. so old books are non canon and probably a moot issue.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:58
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silence_kit posted:Goons often do this thing where on the subject of crime, they get all realpolitik, but when the subject turns to criminals facing consequences for their actions, they become the biggest moralists ever. the difficulty you are having here, which is a mysteriously common one, is pretending like "Goons" means you and then a bunch of other people who are not you but are all basically interchangeable. in reality, there are many different individuals with different views and stances present on these forums.
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Aug 9, 2021 16:13
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isnt Kim Megaupload still living free on his island compund?
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Aug 9, 2021 16:21
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PhazonLink posted:isnt Kim Megaupload still living free on his island compund? I know the case against Megaupload hit a roadblock over evidence. https://www.slashgear.com/megaupload-case-stalls-as-evidence-seize-share-judged-illegal-28236190/ CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 16:32
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Aug 9, 2021 17:28
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PhazonLink posted:Disney cleaned up for the whole Star Wars canon by simplifying it to just the movies, and the new (tv, movie, game???) stuff they make. Why does it matter what Disney considers "canon"?
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Aug 9, 2021 17:29
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Maybe make each neighborhood get together and vote which local artist gets their patronage so the people can have a say in what art gets support
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Aug 9, 2021 17:29
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