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kitten emergency posted:there’s a decent amount of older homes in upstate ny that either use pellet stoves or fuel oil in some combination for heat The entire northeast is still very much fuel oil and biomass heating. I'm in eastern PA and that's what we use (not pellet, actual wood - the new wood stoves and inserts are pretty great and very efficient. There's even tax credits for them).
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Aug 8, 2021 23:15
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Motronic posted:The entire northeast is still very much fuel oil and biomass heating. I'm in eastern PA and that's what we use (not pellet, actual wood - the new wood stoves and inserts are pretty great and very efficient. There's even tax credits for them). Yeah the wood boilers or whatever you can put outside seem ridiculously efficient, my in-laws had that and it kept the place toasty as hell
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Aug 9, 2021 01:06
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Out in central & western PA, coal heating is still very much A Thing. I did a loss around Coraopolis, PA; the house was heated with anthracite. The owner’s son drove coal trucks from the mines for a living, and every couple of years, he’d have his son dump two 10-yard loads in pits that he’d had constructed for the purpose; he said that the two loads cost him maybe $200 and it was enough to last 2-3 years. When I inspected the house, it was twelve degrees outside, and every window in the house wide open. It was 85 in there. He used the windows to regulate the temperature. The house had an auto shop at one end with 20-foot ceilings.
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Aug 9, 2021 01:12
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can i clarify that i'm asking about urban areas? haha good to know that it's still common though.
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Aug 9, 2021 02:50
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`Nemesis posted:can i clarify that i'm asking about urban areas? haha It's still common in urban areas if they don't have natural gas infrastructure. And many older homes in these areas often still have their coal furnaces in the basement, along with all of the autoloading stuff, still in basically working condition but bypassed. It just wouldn't even register as strange to me anywhere around where I live.
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Aug 9, 2021 02:56
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Motronic posted:It's still common in urban areas if they don't have natural gas infrastructure. And many older homes in these areas often still have their coal furnaces in the basement, along with all of the autoloading stuff, still in basically working condition but bypassed. i've never lived in an area without natural gas service, so that helps me get it. thanks for the comment.
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Aug 9, 2021 04:29
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Motronic posted:It's still common in urban areas if they don't have natural gas infrastructure. And many older homes in these areas often still have their coal furnaces in the basement, along with all of the autoloading stuff, still in basically working condition but bypassed. How common is "remote heating" in the US? Here in Denmark it's pretty common for a lot of heat-generating power plants to basically use the housing in the general area as their extended cooling coil by piping them their heated coolant water to help heat their homes/bath water. Usually secondary heating(i.e. there's a heat exchanger swapping the heat into their central heating systems) but occasionally direct heating where you've got 80-something Celsius pressurized water clanging right through the radiators.
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Aug 9, 2021 11:39
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I don't think I have ever heard of that in the US. Edit: Apparently I am an idiot, because there are two systems doing it right in my town; MIT uses cogeneration for its campus, and there's a private company that also does this. I learned something! Ashcans fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Aug 9, 2021 |
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Aug 9, 2021 12:02
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PurpleXVI posted:How common is "remote heating" in the US? Here in Denmark it's pretty common for a lot of heat-generating power plants to basically use the housing in the general area as their extended cooling coil by piping them their heated coolant water to help heat their homes/bath water. Usually secondary heating(i.e. there's a heat exchanger swapping the heat into their central heating systems) but occasionally direct heating where you've got 80-something Celsius pressurized water clanging right through the radiators. It’s uncommon. A few cities have it, notably New York, and some universities and corporate campuses have cogeneration plants.
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Aug 9, 2021 12:08
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The dad of one of my friends lived in Stockholm back when Sweden were developing their native nuclear power plant technology, and his district was heated with reactor waste heat - presumably after a heat exchange or three to make it safe. It was apparently cheap or free, so people heated their driveways to remove snow, and the like. He apparently once got a letter asking if they could please consider using a bit more heating, since they dumped the surplus heat into a local park lake and it wasn't environmentally great. Also, I just like to remind people that the reason Sweden designed their own reactors was to allow them to make weapons grade isotopes, in case they decided they wanted to make nuclear weapons. When they eventually gave up their research program (which was nominally meant to better understand and prepare for what the larger powers were up to), they handed over enough material to make a couple of nukes to the IAEA.
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Aug 9, 2021 14:49
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PurpleXVI posted:How common is "remote heating" in the US? Here in Denmark it's pretty common for a lot of heat-generating power plants to basically use the housing in the general area as their extended cooling coil by piping them their heated coolant water to help heat their homes/bath water. Usually secondary heating(i.e. there's a heat exchanger swapping the heat into their central heating systems) but occasionally direct heating where you've got 80-something Celsius pressurized water clanging right through the radiators. Yeah, I'm super jealous of that. The only large scale system in the US that I'm aware of that is actually using cogeneration (waste heat from power generation) is in NYC (Manhattan at least). ConEd (the local utility) still supplies steam power, which is absolutely still in use for more than just heat and cooling (literal steam elevators as well as things like commercial equipment uses). Lots of campuses have there own steam plants and there are small pockets of it in industrial areas. Don't know if any of them are cogeneration though.
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Aug 9, 2021 15:18
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PurpleXVI posted:How common is "remote heating" in the US? Here in Denmark it's pretty common for a lot of heat-generating power plants to basically use the housing in the general area as their extended cooling coil by piping them their heated coolant water to help heat their homes/bath water. Usually secondary heating(i.e. there's a heat exchanger swapping the heat into their central heating systems) but occasionally direct heating where you've got 80-something Celsius pressurized water clanging right through the radiators. The GSA provides steam to a bunch of federal buildings in downtown DC. The guys in my union who have worked in the tunnels that transport the steam (and return condensate) have the most OSHA stories.
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Aug 9, 2021 17:17
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Computer viking posted:The dad of one of my friends lived in Stockholm back when Sweden were developing their native nuclear power plant technology, and his district was heated with reactor waste heat - presumably after a heat exchange or three to make it safe. It was apparently cheap or free, so people heated their driveways to remove snow, and the like. He apparently once got a letter asking if they could please consider using a bit more heating, since they dumped the surplus heat into a local park lake and it wasn't environmentally great. For what it's worth, all nuke plants have a heat exchanger between the main coolant lol on the reactor and the water that drives the turbines.
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Aug 9, 2021 18:14
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glynnenstein posted:The GSA provides steam to a bunch of federal buildings in downtown DC. The guys in my union who have worked in the tunnels that transport the steam (and return condensate) have the most OSHA stories. Anything involving pressurized steam is always gonna be pretty OSHA by default. Motronic posted:Lots of campuses have there own steam plants and there are small pockets of it in industrial areas. Don't know if any of them are cogeneration though. I confess that I don't quite see the point of it if it's not waste heat, that you'd have anyway. Actually moving heat that way rather than generating it on site seems like it would almost always be somewhat wasteful. Computer viking posted:The dad of one of my friends lived in Stockholm back when Sweden were developing their native nuclear power plant technology, and his district was heated with reactor waste heat - presumably after a heat exchange or three to make it safe. It was apparently cheap or free, so people heated their driveways to remove snow, and the like. He apparently once got a letter asking if they could please consider using a bit more heating, since they dumped the surplus heat into a local park lake and it wasn't environmentally great. Here they literally bill you extra if you return the coolant water without drawing enough heat out of it.  So it's important to have your system set up right.
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Aug 9, 2021 19:47
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PurpleXVI posted:I confess that I don't quite see the point of it if it's not waste heat, that you'd have anyway. Actually moving heat that way rather than generating it on site seems like it would almost always be somewhat wasteful. It's cheaper/cleaner to maintain one large plant than to have a bunch of fuel-fed heaters all over your campus at varying levels of maintenance/age/efficiency level. There's definitely some level of waste involved, but the efficiencies of scale make up for that in a well designed system. It's the same reason we don't each have a diesel or natural gas generator sitting outside of our homes and instead typically use power that's been generated centrally. There are a lot of transmission losses, but not enough to make up for the scale efficiency.
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Aug 9, 2021 19:53
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Here's a real beaut for the ambitious handyman: https://emgl.dk/bolig/33290000247/skovmarken-11-3390-hundested/ (Translated, but the slideshow doesn't work properly: https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=da&tl=en&u=https://emgl.dk/bolig/33290000247/skovmarken-11-3390-hundested/) The photoshopped lit fireplace in the full screen picture of the living room is 
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Aug 9, 2021 20:39
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Blue Footed Booby posted:For what it's worth, all nuke plants have a heat exchanger between the main coolant lol on the reactor and the water that drives the turbines. Nope. Pressurized water reactors do, but in boiling water reactors it's a single coolant loop, the main coolant turns to steam and goes right into the high-pressure turbine.
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Aug 9, 2021 20:47
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KozmoNaut posted:Here's a real beaut for the ambitious handyman: Lmao, there isn’t a gas connection and the only source of heating is an oil furnace “in unknown condition”. On the plus side, its cheap enough that a complete rebuild would make a profit. That’s a pretty desirable area for vacationers.
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Aug 9, 2021 22:31
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Computer viking posted:The dad of one of my friends lived in Stockholm back when Sweden were developing their native nuclear power plant technology, and his district was heated with reactor waste heat - presumably after a heat exchange or three to make it safe. It was apparently cheap or free, so people heated their driveways to remove snow, and the like. He apparently once got a letter asking if they could please consider using a bit more heating, since they dumped the surplus heat into a local park lake and it wasn't environmentally great. A nuclear-heated greenhouse was something I never knew I wanted. 
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Aug 9, 2021 22:47
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District heat is very uncommon here in the states, the exceptions being large campuses laid out before the 40s. It didn't really pay to dig tunnels and run the pipe unless you had more than 6 buildings in a group. I'm hoping it comes back into vogue for cooling as restrictions on refrigerants increase. Rooftop units and large dx circuits can suck my nuts.
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Aug 9, 2021 22:49
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Platystemon posted:A nuclear-heated greenhouse was something I never knew I wanted. Looking at it, Ågestadverket was designated as a "nuclear heating plant" - it was an 80 MW plant that produced 10 MW of electricity and the rest went to district heating. Designed to scale to 200 MW and could be expanded with more turbines, but as I understand it it was a clunky early design and they closed it instead of trying to modernise it. So yeah it would make some sense to use it to heat your pineapple operation. e: The MW numbers are slightly different between the Swedish and English article, but close enough. The Swedish article also has more pictures, if Scandinavian reactors from the 60s is your thing. Computer viking fucked around with this message at 01:57 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 01:42
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Sacramento has a plant that provides both heat and cooling to 23 state run buildings with, what I assume, is an extensive pipe network. https://www.usa.skanska.com/what-we-deliver/projects/206619/California-Department-of-General-Services%2C-Sacramento-Central-Utility-Plant Please note this fucker was built in the 2000s.
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Aug 10, 2021 07:41
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Motronic posted:It's cheaper/cleaner to maintain one large plant than to have a bunch of fuel-fed heaters all over your campus at varying levels of maintenance/age/efficiency level. There's definitely some level of waste involved, but the efficiencies of scale make up for that in a well designed system. Oh yeah, for a campus, definitely. Just thinking more for like... an entire city district. You may be right in general, though.
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Aug 10, 2021 08:17
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Fruits of the sea posted:Lmao, there isn’t a gas connection and the only source of heating is an oil furnace “in unknown condition”. If you burn it down, you'll take care of the gardening at the same time 
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Aug 10, 2021 09:56
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Slanderer posted:If the house is over 100 years old and isn't brick, then yes lol. At least in my part of the country, where all the houses that old have had steel beams installed in the basement to keep the structure from continuing to sag Lots of wooden houses here that are centuries old, even a few examples that where built a thousand years ago. Now they are naturally muesum buildings of course.
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Aug 10, 2021 10:31
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nm posted:Sacramento has a plant that provides both heat and cooling to 23 state run buildings with, what I assume, is an extensive pipe network. That link said they are replacing an older plant with insufficient capacity. I'm reading this as they already had district hvac, they just built a new central plant building rather than refurbishing the old one.
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Aug 10, 2021 14:12
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I have been in the utility tunnels of the Vrije Universiteit in Amsterdam a few times. The VU campus consists of the main building, the science and mathmatics building (which contains a cyclotron) the central heating and electricity plant and the academic hospital. They're all connected together via the tunnels. They had several functions - all the heat comes from one central heating and electricity plant, so there are huge heating pipes in there, that always make the tunnels quite warm. Furthermore they're used as an underground passage way for the little electric waste collection trolleys. And finally, they are in use to take radioactive isotopes from the Cyclotron in the science/mathmatics building to the academic hospital for people who receive radiation treatment. The tunnels were a nice way to get from one building to another without getting wet when it rains, but these days they're not accessible anymore to students. They're heavily guarded by cameras, so while it's easy enough to run into them when a waste collection trolley passes through, the security will be waiting for you on the other side... Sad times, i actually was planning to do a cyberpunk photo shoot in there, but right after coming up with the idea they were closed off. There's enough light in there to make proper pictures with a modern camera, but it's dark enough for a gritty and gloomy atmosphere. They're constructed rather well, with fire escapes to the ground level in several locations. But unless you know where those are, they're hard to find. But this is crapper construction, it wouldn't be right to end this post without bad things happening! Reportedly the soil under the math and science building is so soggy, that the pressure of the building on the soil makes it possible for ground water to be pushed up through cavities and walls in the building, up to the first floor. I haven't witnessed it myself, but there are various reports of ground water leaking into the first floor. The late 60s building is scheduled to have been demolished 10 years ago already, but it gets delayed time and time again because there are just too many scientists that need to use the place.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:21
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i have a campus crapper story. a college near me built a new building a few years back, and the first spring after it was constructed the snow melted and put one corner of the building in knee-deep water, because the builders hadn't properly accounted for that part of the building being below-grade of the roads beside it. the kicker was that this corner of the building was the new location of the campus bookstore, so it ruined all of the very expensive textbooks they had for sale
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Aug 10, 2021 18:27
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MRC48B posted:That link said they are replacing an older plant with insufficient capacity. I'm reading this as they already had district hvac, they just built a new central plant building rather than refurbishing the old one. It didn't feed as many buildings.
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Aug 10, 2021 21:23
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downtown Milwaukee is pretty much all steam heat from a coal fired plant just south of downtown.... the valley power plant is huge and it only makes steam - no electricity. it's getting pretty old, dunno what they plan to do once it needs to be replaced.
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Aug 10, 2021 23:11
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nm posted:Sacramento has a plant that provides both heat and cooling to 23 state run buildings with, what I assume, is an extensive pipe network. It's probably entirely by chance, but it's sort of apropos that Skanska is Swedish. 
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Aug 10, 2021 23:17
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https://twitter.com/Karnythia/status/1425210858163081222?s=20
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Aug 10, 2021 23:20
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What proportion of that is cramming units in and what is converted building with load bearing members all over
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Aug 11, 2021 01:20
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the yeti posted:What proportion of that is cramming units in and what is converted building with load bearing members all over And what proportion is a rabid dabus going buck wild
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Aug 11, 2021 03:32
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the yeti posted:What proportion of that is cramming units in and what is converted building with load bearing members all over I'm guessing a way to shove three bedrooms w/ windows and closets and room for a queen-size bed into a space that was too small for a 3-bedroom
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Aug 11, 2021 03:59
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Aug 11, 2021 04:08
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The longer I stare the more confused I get.
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Aug 11, 2021 05:06
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I’m guessing this is an old folks home…hopefully before it’s nicely painted and decorated?
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Aug 11, 2021 05:09
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student accommodation iirc
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Aug 11, 2021 07:46
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so do upper floor residents get in and out via a rope ladder slung over the balcony or what
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Aug 11, 2021 10:58
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