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MH Knights posted:Part of me says to never buy NMS just for how much of a lying rear end the head of the studio was (still is?). Sean's a good guy and an extremely shy person who was put in front of a lot of cameras and important people in his sphere of the entertainment industry (he was being grilled by Colbert at one point) because his tiny studio couldn't afford a PR guy during development. I'm sure having their office destroyed in the christmas floods of 2013 didn't help either lol. He lied about a lot of things but it was clearly a lot of "we're trying/we'd love to make this happen oh god how do I tell the international daytime news talking head how game development works if I tell them no and hurt the brand Sony is going to dissolve our studio" and less of the Molyneux "just making poo poo up for no reason" style of lying. I'd say they've more than made up for being pressured into hyping up a bunch of stuff they might have been trying to do but didn't have ready or wouldn't have enough time to get around to by now. They sat down, shut up, ignored social media and the stalkers and the industry/local news trying to harass them and developed the poo poo out of NMS and with all of the free content updates it's ten times the game the original concept was. Babe Magnet fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 02:01
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NMS is a fascinating Sci Fi paperback cover simulator. I played launch, a little later, and a lil later, and a lil after that. It's nice. I dug how the added single player campaign is about the fruitless search for other players. Apparently it is no longer fruitless thanks Nada and Polo
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Aug 10, 2021 02:03
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MH Knights posted:Part of me says to never buy NMS just for how much of a lying rear end the head of the studio was (still is?). To be fair, Sony marketing forced him into that poo poo to sell the game and not only did he double down to make it happen, they have gone far beyond that.
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Aug 10, 2021 04:54
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MH Knights posted:Part of me says to never buy NMS just for how much of a lying rear end the head of the studio was (still is?). In that he mostly wasn't? A lot of the things he "lied about" are things they actually had working in game but removed because it caused issues or playtesters didn't like it, which is how game development works and why Valve has stopped talking about games they make until they're 100% done. They should have been much clearer about what they didn't have in the initial launch, but calling him a "lying rear end" isn't really accurate.
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Aug 10, 2021 06:20
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Babe Magnet posted:Sean's a good guy and an extremely shy person who was put in front of a lot of cameras and important people in his sphere of the entertainment industry (he was being grilled by Colbert at one point) because his tiny studio couldn't afford a PR guy during development. I'm sure having their office destroyed in the christmas floods of 2013 didn't help either lol. Do you know Sean? Because it pretty much did seem like he was just making poo poo up Molyneux-style. He explicitly advertised features that weren't in the game at all. Excusing it as "he was put in front of cameras" is pretty weak. He also doesn't come across as an extremely shy person at all.
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Aug 10, 2021 06:31
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Read the room dude. Talking about a game in development is always advertising features that aren't done yet, and why like I just said, many companies now just aren't talking about games until they're done out of fear of upsetting gamers with false expectations. Things change, and many of those features were actually working at one point but were cut because playtesters said they made the game confusing. Molyneux's problem is he consistently did a game of "well, my last project was bs, but my NEXT project will deliver on everything!" on and on and on. Sean meanwhile stuck with the one game and has shipped free updates delivering on everything that was "missing" from the release, and more. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 06:34 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 06:32
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Zaphod42 posted:Read the room dude. Am I supposed to change my opinion because some random goons bought some PR explanations?
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Aug 10, 2021 06:34
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Fame Douglas posted:Am I supposed to change my opinion because some random goons bought some PR explanations? What a dumb thing to write. Where did I say you need to change your opinion? But saying "Do you know Sean?" in response to Babe Magnet when several other goons are saying the same thing is kinda tone deaf. And "he doesn't come across as shy" is hilariously wrong. He's extremely introverted. Internet Historian covered this well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5BJVO3PDeQ&t=2002s TLDR: have you worked in software?
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Aug 10, 2021 06:38
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Zaphod42 posted:TLDR: have you worked in software? yeah but software people despise software salespeople
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Aug 10, 2021 06:42
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Zaphod42 posted:Where did I say you need to change your opinion? But saying "Do you know Sean?" in response to Babe Magnet when several other goons are saying the same thing is kinda tone deaf. Multiple goons saying the same thing happens all the time, doesn't mean those goons are correct. And I don't think introversion is an excuse for openly lying about features close to release. Everybody knows some features get cut in development, but what Murray did certainly had much of Molyneux. Just marketing run amuck. I also won't watch some Youtube weirdo's video, I remember the marketing campaign and Murray promising features that simply weren't there and would foreseeably not be implemented, I don't need some third party to "explain" my memories to me.
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Aug 10, 2021 06:46
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Look, the bad video games man said things that weren't true 5 years ago, and no amount of things he did since then will make up for being a big fat liar and hurting players' feelings forever. Like how the Spider-Man team clearly lied by taking out all those puddles in the announcement trailer that weren't there in later trailers, and this is something you should care about and remember because lying to gamers is the worst thing you can do. For those of you who don't know, the weather was wetter in the game when they did the first capture and it was a little bit drier for the second capture.
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Aug 10, 2021 08:07
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Didn't the NMS guy continue to claim for a little while after release that there was multiplayer in game you just probably wouldn't encounter other players because the Galaxy was so big, until two players who were friends went to the trouble of proving it false
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Aug 10, 2021 08:33
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Tricky Ed posted:Look, the bad video games man said things that weren't true 5 years ago, and no amount of things he did since then will make up for being a big fat liar and hurting players' feelings forever. The bad video game man lied 5 years ago, why does it matter how the game developed since then? It's a simple statement of fact. And why are you bringing up some entirely unrelated Spider Man controversy that doesn't matter to this situation at all? Why are you making this into some weird personal thing?
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Aug 10, 2021 09:17
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Arguing with Fame Douglas is futile.
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Aug 10, 2021 09:26
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who gives a gently caress
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Aug 10, 2021 11:01
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NMS at launch and it's launch itself was a catastrophic farce of such magnitude it made international headlines as a poster boy of software bros promising the world with no ability to deliver. What you have to give NMS credit for, however, is having the integrity to stick with the game and slowly making it playable, when most would just abandon the thing and start over with a new project, learning nothing. It's no FFXIV but my hat is off none the less. Both of these things are objectively true and cannot be explained away regardless how much revisionism or negative bias you choose to apply. They hosed up. They fixed it.
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Aug 10, 2021 11:05
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It's been mentioned before but the circumstances are pretty different from FFXIV because NMS cost almost nothing to make and expand comparatively and early sales were profitable already. It never was a project they had to bring back from the brink of death and they need less people to iterate on it than you get working on a single FFXIV enemy. I definitely hope they've hired a PR guy though.
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Aug 10, 2021 11:55
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This is clearly not about MMOs so poo poo the gently caress up.
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Aug 10, 2021 13:09
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I think games being released unfinished and overpromising is very much on topic in a thread about MMO's and would like people to poo poo the gently caress down some more info about it. Like I know NMS had a terrible release, but what exactly changed in the years following that has given it a positive reception?
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Aug 10, 2021 13:15
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Ra Ra Rasputin posted:I think games being released unfinished and overpromising is very much on topic in a thread about MMO's and would like people to poo poo the gently caress down some more info about it. They kept working on it despite no longer having a straight profit motive. They could have walked away with every member of the team being rich enough to retire but instead they spent the last five years pumping out updates despite everyone hating them. Yeah they had more sales later, of course,, but the first major patch they put out was not telegraphed in any way that would mean driving sales up. That's a respectable thing to do, despite initial fuckups. MMOs don't really get the same kind of leeway because bad game at launch means empty servers later on, which makes the game unplayable, unlike the single player NMS. And if the mmo has a subscription model then the profit motive is well established, as well as a reason to drip out fixes rather than just restarting dev. A lot of people also ended up getting NMS extremely cheap (I think I got it off the Playstation Store for ten bucks) and none of the content patches have been paid content, versus subbed MMOs where fifteen bucks is fifteen bucks. Personally NMS bores me to tears but I appreciate the work they put into it after loving up so incredibly hard. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 13:28
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NMS was a clusterfuck at launch that failed to have a giant pile of features that had been hinted at or outright said it would have in all the press tours, there's no denying it. The bulk of those features have since been added in various updates. The ones that haven't, like orbital mechanics and atmosphere color being simulated by the chemicals in the air, basically add nothing to the game anyways. The fact that it isn't a deep game shouldn't have ever surprised anyone given that it's procedurally generating galaxies worth of planets. The 'I can live my life in the matrix now and forever roam the stars!' was entirely made up by hyped fans and not a promise made by anyone.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:24
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Fame Douglas posted:The bad video game man lied 5 years ago, why does it matter how the game developed since then? It's a simple statement of fact. And why are you bringing up some entirely unrelated Spider Man controversy that doesn't matter to this situation at all? Why are you making this into some weird personal thing? Rawr
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Aug 10, 2021 17:33
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No Man's Sky is a pretty chill game to just explore planets and warp around the galaxy. Overpromising on features and gameplay during development was a bad idea, but that doesn't matter anymore. People who are still upset about it, are super weird.
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Aug 10, 2021 17:40
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Hra Mormo posted:NMS at launch and it's launch itself was a catastrophic farce of such magnitude it made international headlines as a poster boy of software bros promising the world with no ability to deliver. But this ignores many posts on this page, pointing out that they did actually deliver on several promised features but removed them after playtesters complained. Gamers having no idea what they actually want is pretty huge and important, especially in the MMO market. Its how we got where we are. Valatar posted:NMS was a clusterfuck at launch that failed to have a giant pile of features that had been hinted at or outright said it would have in all the press tours, there's no denying it. The bulk of those features have since been added in various updates. The ones that haven't, like orbital mechanics and atmosphere color being simulated by the chemicals in the air, basically add nothing to the game anyways. The fact that it isn't a deep game shouldn't have ever surprised anyone given that it's procedurally generating galaxies worth of planets. The 'I can live my life in the matrix now and forever roam the stars!' was entirely made up by hyped fans and not a promise made by anyone. But, again, for the 5th time, orbital mechanics were working, they 100% developed that and it worked in-engine and wasn't a lie, and gamers who played the game got confused and angry so they removed it. So going "They lied!" isn't really the whole truth there at all. As always in reality life is complicated and when you're just looking to label things and get angry you overlook a lot. By the same token, Valve "lied" about the water monster that was on the cover of one of the pcgaming mags. They showed Gordon Freeman fighting a water monster. But the game shipped, no water monster! But nobody goes "VALVE LIED" because (well, most people just don't even know about it because many were too young to even remember) we understand that playtesters found the water monster confusing so they cut it. It was fully implemented and it was the pet project of one engineer, but they cut it because it wasn't fun. That's how game development works. And why Valve won't talk about games in development anymore, because people get the wrong idea and "HYPE TRAIN" anything devs talk about. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 18:00
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I’ve never even heard of No Man’s Sky until now but the fact that 65daysofstatic composed the music makes me think the ambiance has to be at least decent, those guys kill at making chillin space sounds.
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Aug 10, 2021 18:00
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Ort posted:I’ve never even heard of No Man’s Sky until now but the fact that 65daysofstatic composed the music makes me think the ambiance has to be at least decent, those guys kill at making chillin space sounds. How have you posted on this forum and managed to avoid anyone talking about NMS? Its been a huge game on Somethingawful.
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Aug 10, 2021 18:03
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Yeah the game was also massively overhyped before release all over the internet.
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Aug 10, 2021 18:05
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Groovelord Neato posted:Yeah the game was also massively overhyped before release. It was, but mostly by gamers. I myself was part of the SA thread where I tried over and over (in vain) to tell people to stop getting their hopes up. It was pretty clear that there wouldn't be multiplayer. They should have been clearer about that, but its not like Hello Games was running advertisements over and over about all the things you could do in game. Most of the "hype" was people taking things Sean said in interviews months earlier as promises, which isn't how games work. Cyberpunk 2077 on the other hand, they hyped their game up themselves with advertisements and it crashed hard. But NMS isn't quite the same situation at all.
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Aug 10, 2021 18:08
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Cyberpunk had entire deep dive trailers, and content creators / social media people, hype the game up a month before launch with interviews, and details about the game, showing off content that never made it into the game. Cyberpunk's broken promises are much much worst than NMS.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:06
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I said come in! posted:Cyberpunk had entire deep dive trailers, and content creators / social media people, hype the game up a month before launch with interviews, and details about the game, showing off content that never made it into the game. Cyberpunk's broken promises are much much worst than NMS. Keanu Reeves LIED TO ME! But he won me back in Always Be My Maybe
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Aug 10, 2021 19:18
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And even Cyberpunk, the people in those deep dives weren't really "lying" because they had plans to build those things, and half-built or even mostly-built lots of it, but they had to rush release and cut lots of things because they were buggy and even then it was crazy buggy. But they didn't lie, they just didn't know that the management would rush it out the door without letting them build all the things they'd already designed and advertised. To get back to MMO chat, I've never actually played dark age of camelot but I've heard so many things about it, its one of the few big MMOs I've never at least tried. I should try to find a private server because it really does seem like the best Realm vs Realm MMO ever from how everybody talks about it.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:30
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The live server is free to play now.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:35
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Well maybe I'll just check that out then. From the looks of videos on youtube live is pretty different from the old days, which I would expect since its been so long. I'm way more a fan of Project 1999 EQ than live EQ because of the direction its gone, would you say live DAOC is still pretty rad or has it changed dramatically? (for better or worse?)
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Aug 10, 2021 19:36
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Ort posted:I’ve never even heard of No Man’s Sky until now but the fact that 65daysofstatic composed the music makes me think the ambiance has to be at least decent, those guys kill at making chillin space sounds. Oh well then you get to see this for the first time!
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Aug 11, 2021 06:00
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Zaphod42 posted:And even Cyberpunk, the people in those deep dives weren't really "lying" because they had plans to build those things, and half-built or even mostly-built lots of it, but they had to rush release and cut lots of things because they were buggy and even then it was crazy buggy. But they didn't lie, they just didn't know that the management would rush it out the door without letting them build all the things they'd already designed and advertised. If you think about it, Molyneux never lied, either. He totally wanted to deliver a product that would fulfill all of his promises, he just was never able to.
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Aug 11, 2021 09:17
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Molyneux was a conman turned gaming god turned conman again. But that mid-90s streak still produced some of the best games ever made, so just because someone started off on the wrong foot doesn't mean they can't do good things.
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Aug 11, 2021 10:11
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Fame Douglas posted:If you think about it, Molyneux never lied, either. He totally wanted to deliver a product that would fulfill all of his promises, he just was never able to. I do remember a gamespot feature where he actually brags about lying regarding VR glove support for Black & White (as in, it wasn't a feature he ever intended to add, he only brought it up to wow someone who was visiting), so you can change that from never to possibly not that often. Chev fucked around with this message at 10:20 on Aug 11, 2021 |
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Aug 11, 2021 10:18
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Molyneux's career started with him lying to Commodore, for one thing
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Aug 11, 2021 10:18
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kirbysuperstar posted:Molyneux's career started with him lying to Commodore, for one thing It was either that or selling canned goods, or whatever it was he was doing after his first failed game.
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Aug 11, 2021 10:24
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The Commodore-gave-us-free-machines-by-mistake anecdote varies between tellings, sometimes significantly, so it's quite probable he's lying about some of that, too. The more you dig up interviews or blogs from ex-Bullfrog people the more apparent it becomes that Molyneux is an extremely unreliable narrator who values a good fib above all else.
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Aug 11, 2021 10:28
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