(Thread IKs:
Captain Foo)
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Canine Blues Arooo posted:I'm speculating here, but I'm guessing it's because shipping game 'server' data to the player is not desirable. I'm not speculating here: There is no way you can detect me reading arbitrary memory from a process on my local machine. you can't check the memory, no. well, regardless: i love poe but it's number one con is being an online game. it doesn't matter how hard it would be to change, or why they did it that way. im tired of desynced or invisible projectiles, random instance crashes, occasional realm disconnects etc. considering that these problems have been here since 1.0 and haven't left I'm not confident they ever will fix it without making the game offline with instanced or p2p party play, like diablo 2.
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Aug 10, 2021 10:23
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Flavahbeast posted:Has anyone ever made that work, characters that can be played offline and online without being vulnerable to hacking? warframe seems to handle it pretty well they some people cheating some years back but they all got banned pretty quick afaik Larry Parrish posted:Those games aren't primarily single player like ARPGs are though. what's funny to me is, i never played diablo2 solo. it just wasn't nearly as fun as playing with friends, i think most i managed to do before getting bored was finishing act 4 once. meanwhile poe is an online game, and playing with friends is often just a nuisance lmfao
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Aug 10, 2021 10:23
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Warframe has an offline mode?
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Aug 10, 2021 10:34
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Warframe has an offline mode? As long you stay in mission, yes. Most progress syncs on mission end rather than constantly.
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Aug 10, 2021 10:39
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Jamella PoE hero editor in Open Wraenet
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Aug 10, 2021 11:21
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League started Spectral Helix Raider and it owns. There are like 5+ viable ways to build it, I went flat ele with claws for lgoh. Nightblade Support is stupid good, as is the new Crit Strikes and Shroud of the Lightless was effectively a fairly cheap 6-link. You want some sort of clear mechanic and HoI felt good enough. I should've just played this character but altitis hit hard. Reroll #1: Voltaxic Burst Heiro. I've gone between "I can make this work" to "This is dogshit" a bunch of times now. The skill itself is fun to use, the void pops are super meaty and it clears fairly well once you get going but having to dash into packs to get the most out of the aoe means you're always feeling squishy. I feel like you need to go Voltaxic Rift for the conversion but they nerfed the poo poo out of caster quivers and the only other useful mods on it is the shock stuff. The crit on the gem is bad but the cast time and damage efficiency is on the low side so the Unleash synergy perfect either. It's basically unplayable as a main skill unless you get some reduced duration on the tree and run a Less Duration Support but you also want a ton of increased aoe and some shock chance/effect/duration and enough dex to wear the drat bow and some form of stun avoid because some random projectile stunning you out of your cast animation means you're blinking into a pack with your (proverbial) pants down. Some of the complaints I have aren't necessarily the skill's fault - the way mana cost scaling works means that, despite the absolute gap between 5l and 6l being reduced this patch, archmage is probably more reliant on 6l than before and getting 100% reduced frost/chill effect on Heiro doesn't actually mean immunity because certain things have increased effect. And despite all that I can't resist the siren's call of Bad Build. Reroll #2: Self-Cast Exsanguinate Deadeye. This is like the polar opposite of the Voltaxic Burst build where it feels effortless up to reds with plenty of possible gear upgrades. Most characters on poe.ninja go into aura stacking Supreme Ego + Legion boots shenanigans but you certainly don't need it for the build to function. Ranger doesn't actually get almost any of the gems until Library and then you have to level them up but despite that it doesn't feel like a bad league start. You want an evasion rare with 5 off colors but that's not too hard with corrupted 6-links and you get fairly beefy for a sc ranger build with 193% life off tree and 181% for the cluster jewel variant. The only "mandatory" piece of equipment is a poacher's mark ring once you get uber lab done, although phys Doriani's Invitation is nice and you want to get some cast speed somewhere since you get gently caress all from the tree and with the slow base speed of Exsanguinate, it's hard to keep Tailwind stacks up. Single target isn't amazing but it's not bad either and I might try to squeeze in seismic trap to help with that since I'm scaling phys and duration already.
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Aug 10, 2021 11:29
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just how many softballs are they gonna throw at Chris tomorrow, someone has to keep count of it
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Aug 10, 2021 12:06
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Cao Ni Ma posted:Warframe has an offline mode? its the default mode even
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Aug 10, 2021 12:16
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Larry Parrish posted:its the default mode even You still sign into the servers when you boot the game, and it sanity checks every mission. Does it really count as offline? I mean an apples to apple comparison in this case would be that absolutely jack poo poo drops while you are clearing the map till you kill the map boss, then the server sanity checks your poo poo and determines what you get. Then you load up a new map and the server checks again everything is fine before it lets you into it. Doesn't sound like much, but it'll require a complete rewrite of their server client interactions as well as their database probably.
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Aug 10, 2021 12:30
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Cao Ni Ma posted:You still sign into the servers when you boot the game, and it sanity checks every mission. Does it really count as offline? I dunno man. In Warframe you can have terrible packet loss and the game is still playable because of it, even if it's not really actual offline play. Until recently I had to use 3G and then 4G to game online most of the time, except for a few years when I was in the city and had cable. Before that as a kiddo and a teenager I had to use dialup a lot. I know that most people don't have these problems but you learn to resent games that don't handle poor connections well. This one doesn't even handle good connections well, which is why it's so frustrating that there seems to be little to no progress on that front besides adding lockstep mode.
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Aug 10, 2021 12:40
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Definitely starting to hit the same wall I did with my first build, where I need improvements to my character that I cannot afford and have no real path aside from lottery-level drops to moving forward. This build's fun enough that it might be worth pressing on regardless, though being barely able to survive yellow maps is a bit of a turnoff. (I have some fairly reasonably-priced upgrades in mind that could help with that). If there are other games where I can throw worms at ghosts to make my swords dance while I then throw bombs at things, I don't know about them but I suppose I could be playing a truck driving simulator or Babby's First Action RPG (never mind the other reasons to never go near another Blizzard game as long as I live) instead rather than be somewhat frustrated about a few missteps in the development of what's still the best ARPG in the business.
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Aug 10, 2021 13:24
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You know, after thinking about it I don't think combat logs would solve the fundamental problem of the lack of visual clarity. Say they come out with the perfect, clearest, most usable death log tomorrow. Players will go right back to asking 'okay, so this crab guy killed me while buffed by accuracy and increased crit and I was shocked and slowed by vines, so how could I spot these effects ingame so I won't die the next time?' You still have the visual clarity problem. It's not terribly useful to show you what killed you after the fact if you can't make actionable changes in response to the feedback. Canine Blues Arooo posted:Yes, generally when I gently caress up in a game, I don't ask the devs to nerf the content. I generally start by asking, 'what did I do wrong - how could I have done this better'? In the case of Harvest, the more complete answer is, 'If I want to do Harvest in the future, I need to solve for that case'. This would mean I need to understand that system better and design builds for it's challanges. I'm more interested in designing for bosses and less interested in designing for a block of random threatening monsters. So with that in mind, I probably just won't do it. Every character doesn't need to be good at every piece of content. And not every player needs to enjoy the current state of the game. So with that in mind, they won't play this league. How is your logic any different from the average blathering whiner on Reddit? Canine Blues Arooo posted:I do put a lot of faith in GGG largely because the systems are so, so well done at it's core. The whole block of player systems are ridiculously well thought out, and while I definitely think that some of the monsters are...questionable, I'm very willing to acknowledge that I despite being someone who is obsessed with systems and solving them, I don't know that I could do better in the whole. No, it really isn't. I agree with you that the core system is quite clean and clever -- that (1) everything (including zones, chests, everything) has mods, some of which can be tradeable items, and that (2) consumable items that manipulate said items and currency are one and the same, thereby curbing inflation somewhat. But everything beyond that is one tacked-on system on top of another. League content and feature bloat is a real thing. There are multiple league mechanics and items that address a similar thing (essences, beastcrafting, fossils, harvest) that are completely confusing for a new player, but seek to achieve the same end (ways to mitigate (but not eliminate) crafting RNG). Complexity does not equate depth. That's one of the most common misconceptions and a pet peeve of mine. The most well-designed games have rules that are simple and intuitive to understand, but leave a lot of room for strategic depth and player expression. GGG has the latter in spades but none of the former. They took a fantastic core idea and did a poor job executing on it. boredsatellite posted:This isn't you loving up, this is due to bad design. Harvest pops well geared people constantly and the basic problem comes down to super juiced rares that sometimes has stacking auras as an extra gently caress you. Yes, this. I'm reminded of an article in board game design featuring my favorite board game designer. Long read, but the gist of it is that as a game designer, it is your responsibility to take control of your own game. You don't design for the average case; extreme edge cases do happen and it is your responsibility to rein those in. Our Good Lord and Savior Vlaada posted:'You want game to be difficult, you want game to throw at players 3 bad events and you want the game to help them twice. That is your dream configuration. But math is cruel. There will be games like ours today, with 4 bad events and only one good. There will be even games with 0 bad and 5 good events. Players will play it, will have 5 good events, finish the game without smallest effort and then they will write on BGG [board game fan/review site] that game is easy like piece of cake and boring and they don't recommend it.' GGG has basically admitted that players players have gotten more powerful and faster than they'd wanted it to be. If that isn't a sign that GGG had lost control of their game, then I don't know what is.
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Aug 10, 2021 13:26
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It's kinda funny because there isn't really many builds that keep getting dropkicked that i'd really say are genuinely broken. They're just good, maybe even too good, but often only because other options are just that bad. It's been a long time since we had something like the old days of using reverse knock back literally 0 DPS cyclone to ghost every mob on a map and hold it in place for a full speced magicfind guy to come on and one shot with culling strike. So it's not like there's holes in the design; they kept adding new stuff instead of fixing the old, over and over. And now they're just shrugging and saying 'well, the players are too strong'.
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Aug 10, 2021 13:30
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Larry Parrish posted:It's kinda funny because there isn't really many builds that keep getting dropkicked that i'd really say are genuinely broken. They're just good, maybe even too good, but often only because other options are just that bad. It's been a long time since we had something like the old days of using reverse knock back literally 0 DPS cyclone to ghost every mob on a map and hold it in place for a full speced magicfind guy to come on and one shot with culling strike. So it's not like there's holes in the design; they kept adding new stuff instead of fixing the old, over and over. And now they're just shrugging and saying 'well, the players are too strong'. Yeah, aside from the insanity of herald-stacking cluster gems during Delirium (which I think everyone knew wasn't going to continue past that league) and particularly the emergency of "oh poo poo stuff we never intended to count as an aura is an aura" during that league, I can't really think of anything that was just too powerful to be allowed at all in recent memory. There's always going to be a meta that's a few builds wide, that's just the nature of any game that has builds at all. The question is whether there's still space to play builds that are good, but not the best, and I think the answer is still yes, even if it's gotten a lot harder (and doing it during No Drops League isn't really helping matters) and the cliffs come sooner and are more treacherous. Shifting the meta in another direction is even just fine (and it's certainly happened), but it doesn't feel like that's what GGG actually wanted to accomplish here. That's always been my issue with this league's changes; I don't think they're going to actually do what GGG wants them to do, and I'm curious to see what Chris has to say about that. (Not enough to actually watch the interview but enough to seek out highlights after.)
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Aug 10, 2021 13:43
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Yes, im actually going to link a reddit post, because its a genuinely interesting read, Voc of all people calling for HH remove amongst other things: https://old.reddit.com/r/pathofexile/comments/p1it2c/layered_barriers_to_entry_have_limited_player/
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Aug 10, 2021 14:23
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They wanted to nerf things down to create design space for more buffs and to make sure bosses are not killed in 1 second. They have achieved that.( I don’t think this was in particular a meta shift league besides seismic slam getting gutted and the new shield stuff. ) whether they were correct in wanting to achieve that who knows That is at least what they said before. Maybe Chris will say something different Edit I’m responding to docbeard
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Aug 10, 2021 14:29
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J posted:Baeclast is probably not going to be all that interesting. Chris will most likely have the questions in advance and have some PR speak prepared. Plus the usual Baeclast roster consists of people who either liked the patch to begin with, or are GGG pseudo-employees who want to stay on good terms. I found it funny how Asmongold's interview was one of the better ones I'd heard in a while. Took someone who isn't part of the community to ask some good questions. At least the like ~40 minutes of it I listened to. To his credit, I don't think Chris is shy about those things, ever, and has no problem being confronted with them (worst case, he just says "we hear you" as everyone rolls their eyes and moves on to the next question). Just usually he's being interviewed by people who play the game for a living, are deep in the community, often in SSF, and really don't represent the "typical" player at all. (Your post is a page old already, thread is moving fast since yesterday evening)!
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Aug 10, 2021 14:29
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Larry Parrish posted:It's unforgivable that this game still has no offline mode tbh. I don't understand why you can't just have a local instance when you're not partied. The server can still be checking that you aren't memory hacking or something to preserve the sanctity of trading. You can even leave the hubs as always being online, even if it's getting very old that the usually take 10x longer to load. lmfao
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Aug 10, 2021 15:03
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Yolomon Wayne posted:Yes, im actually going to link a reddit post, because its a genuinely interesting read, this is insane
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Aug 10, 2021 15:10
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facepalmolive posted:You know, after thinking about it I don't think combat logs would solve the fundamental problem of the lack of visual clarity. Say they come out with the perfect, clearest, most usable death log tomorrow. Players will go right back to asking 'okay, so this crab guy killed me while buffed by accuracy and increased crit and I was shocked and slowed by vines, so how could I spot these effects ingame so I won't die the next time?' I have been wondering lately whether something like aggro range might be another solution to this problem. I’m one shot by things that have already started attacking me before they’re even on screen, so even if GGG were able to better convey danger visually I’m not sure it would be as helpful as it seems. If they shrank the aggro range a bit it might give a slightly better chance of seeing/avoiding even the juiced up mobs. Doesn’t help with harvest-type situations though.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:11
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Flavahbeast posted:Has anyone ever made that work, characters that can be played offline and online without being vulnerable to hacking? No, because you need to have all the server side info that you usually keep sacred now on the client. Great for modding, bad for online experience.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:47
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xZAOx posted:I found it funny how Asmongold's interview was one of the better ones I'd heard in a while. Took someone who isn't part of the community to ask some good questions. At least the like ~40 minutes of it I listened to. You know most of those questions were pooled from the community, right? They specifically namedropped Ziz multiple times.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:48
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Did an ancient wizard RIP a hardcore toon back in Diablo 2 and curse the genre with bad visual feedback forever or something? I've played way too many of these games and the one thing they all have in common is when you die you can never figure out which particle effect did the deed. The curse even affects adjacent games! ToME4, which is a fairly traditional roguelike with Diablo-style magic and rare items, somehow had the same problem when I last played it despite being turn-based. Yes, you could stop and examine rare monsters but the game has so many abilities and stats that nine times out of ten you'd miss the two or three otherwise innocuous skills that combine to turn the thing into a one-shot machine. Is there any ARPG with clear feedback GGG can learn from?
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Aug 10, 2021 15:50
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Big Mad Drongo posted:Did an ancient wizard RIP a hardcore toon back in Diablo 2 and curse the genre with bad visual feedback forever or something? I've played way too many of these games and the one thing they all have in common is when you die you can never figure out which particle effect did the deed. In all honestly, Diablo 3 had the absolute best visual clarity out of any ARPG I've ever played.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:52
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rasputin handshake posted:I have been wondering lately whether something like aggro range might be another solution to this problem. I’m one shot by things that have already started attacking me before they’re even on screen, so even if GGG were able to better convey danger visually I’m not sure it would be as helpful as it seems. If they shrank the aggro range a bit it might give a slightly better chance of seeing/avoiding even the juiced up mobs. Doesn’t help with harvest-type situations though. They did that for A1 mobs with the 3.15 changes. But there's plenty of skills that can offscreen (or close) and would become even stronger with that kind of change.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:58
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poemdexter posted:No, because you need to have all the server side info that you usually keep sacred now on the client. Great for modding, bad for online experience. The only online experience truly needed if smooth networking for multiplayer, everything else including trading would be expendable ideally. I find it pretty funny that for all the railing against D3, the part of always online was gleefully copied.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:58
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Arzachel posted:You know most of those questions were pooled from the community, right? They specifically namedropped Ziz multiple times. I don't remember specifically, but I'll take your word on it! I listen to the interviews / podcasts while working. I just remember coming away from that one thinking how much better it was than Ziggy's typical post-announcement interview.
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Aug 10, 2021 16:00
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Diablo three post the last expansion it did was wonderful. I just did way too many seasons in it to keep going forever.
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Aug 10, 2021 16:03
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poemdexter posted:In all honestly, Diablo 3 had the absolute best visual clarity out of any ARPG I've ever played. You're probably right, but even as someone who enjoys D3 that's kind of damning with faint praise. The color contrast is much better than POE's shades of mud, but there's still so much poo poo flying around and higher Grifts scale damage so hard I still feel like I pop out of nowhere. Or maybe I'm just getting old. 
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Aug 10, 2021 16:06
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poemdexter posted:In all honestly, Diablo 3 had the absolute best visual clarity out of any ARPG I've ever played. Absolutely this. The GGG art director/team clearly has a solid vision that they will not be budged from, and whilst that should be respected I think it works better in marketing than in practice. AKA: Red on red on red forever. RossCo fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 16:07
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Yolomon Wayne posted:Yes, im actually going to link a reddit post, because its a genuinely interesting read, quote:With that said; my concern with the game is that the Designed Barriers to Entry to the “Endgame” have become layered and stale. It feels like a chore each league progressing Acts, then Labs, then Atlas, then Watchstones, Then Awakening Bonus, then Heist, then Delve, then Setting up Syndicate, Then farming beasts and harvest to seek build enabling crafts, while exploring the league content, all before you can play your desired endgame and content efficiently. (Which for most is 5 man MF’ing Delirium maps with double beyond, sextants, maven watchstones, prophecies, in ilvl 85 zones with influence for HHs right /s) People really be playing this on a whole other level, jesus christ
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Aug 10, 2021 16:08
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lmfao that my guy is farming a single atlas with 10 people but quickness flask lasts too long and comes up too often and that's the real problem
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Aug 10, 2021 16:15
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I don't like anyone enough to be their POE helper
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Aug 10, 2021 16:18
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Yolomon Wayne posted:Yes, im actually going to link a reddit post, because its a genuinely interesting read, this is a really interesting look at how the real powergamers live tbh, and its insane. quote:On day two we were able to sell C.T.S. for 70-90c each as fast as we could find them. By day three they dropped to 40-50c depending on the timezone. Between day 2-5 we sold nearly 700 iLVL 86+ Colossal Tower Shields to the 27,000 players playing Spectral Shield Throw to SLOG through the “Designed Progression”. quote:By all means, we were only one of 50 teams using this DUAL MONOPOLY strategy to LEAPFROG the Designed Barriers to Entry our 700 Shields only fed 2.6% of the demand for shields… Our Helms only fed 1.7% of the demand for helms. Because the build diversity for capable league starting builds had been so compressed, and because the barriers to entry to the endgame had been lengthened, the demand this league was INSATIABLE. quote:No one likes INEQUALITY… and when it is starkly visible to such an obscene level it is dampening. If i was a level 91 SST guy progressing through t11 maps and I see Teams group farming 5 ways and iLVL 85 double beyond fully juiced delirium maps profiting 4-6 ex a map I would feel like a chump. I would question why I am going to keep chipping away at the layers of gates that serve no visible purpose as they are not GATES OF EQUALITY but gates of ignorance.
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Aug 10, 2021 16:26
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poemdexter posted:In all honestly, Diablo 3 had the absolute best visual clarity out of any ARPG I've ever played. I watched a great GDC presentation years ago about D3's art direction, and one of the big things that I remember is how they treated the game window like how a painter thinks of a canvas. They thought a lot about foreground, middleground, background, and tightly controlled different kinds of contrast (color, detail, frequency) to let them create focal points on things that matter(characters, dangerous VFX) without fatiguing your eyes. By contrast, go GIS "sirus poe" or "mastermind poe" and see if you can even tell what the gently caress you're looking at in any of the thumbnails that come up.
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Aug 10, 2021 16:32
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why are people pouring their currency into these people's pockets by buying their overpriced bases??? do people really feel like they need 86+ helmets so badly on day 3 that they spend multiple ex on a base that will be relatively cheap within a week?
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Aug 10, 2021 16:36
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Jazerus posted:why are people pouring their currency into these people's pockets by buying their overpriced bases??? do people really feel like they need 86+ helmets so badly on day 3 that they spend multiple ex on a base that will be relatively cheap within a week? i'd say a lot of the people spending tons on high level gear like that in the first few days of the league are like the upper echelon of solo players who are in turn trying to get to a point where they can farm high level content to sell their proceeds for lesser gains to the tier of players below them, etc. the earlier in the league you can start farming high level content, the more money you'll make early on, and having more money early generally means you'll be able to make substantially more as the league economy develops etc.
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Aug 10, 2021 16:38
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being able to "finish" a slot like minion helm or flat armor shield on day 3 is absolutely huge, yes
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Aug 10, 2021 16:40
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Larry Parrish posted:you can't check the memory, no. well, regardless: i love poe but it's number one con is being an online game. it doesn't matter how hard it would be to change, or why they did it that way. im tired of desynced or invisible projectiles, random instance crashes, occasional realm disconnects etc. considering that these problems have been here since 1.0 and haven't left I'm not confident they ever will fix it without making the game offline with instanced or p2p party play, like diablo 2. It also doesn't matter how much you want it, you're literally never getting an offline mode.
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Aug 10, 2021 16:41
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Magus42 posted:It also doesn't matter how much you want it, you're literally never getting an offline mode. Heavily Modded PoE would be too pure for this world
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Aug 10, 2021 16:42
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