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At the risk of sounding silly, Hickman and Ewing leaving Marvel at the same time Black Cat is canceled would kinda break my heart.
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Aug 10, 2021 10:22
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X-O posted:Saladin Ahmed, Tini Howard, Al Ewing, and Jonathan Hickman are taking similar deals with Substack that Nick Spencer and James Tynion have. This probably means they're leaving Marvel pretty soon. Hopefully they don't, but the other two that signed these have. I had no idea substack was doing comics too. Kinda insane to see such big names want to jump ship but I can see how total control and ownership of what they write (with apparent financial advances to pay the team) must sound pretty appealing.
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Aug 10, 2021 11:58
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X-O posted:Saladin Ahmed, Tini Howard, Al Ewing, and Jonathan Hickman are taking similar deals with Substack that Nick Spencer and James Tynion have. This probably means they're leaving Marvel pretty soon. Hopefully they don't, but the other two that signed these have. Everyone is hoping they can find an audience willing to pay $5 a month to read blog posts.
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Aug 10, 2021 12:27
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This is a pretty good test to see if digital comics are the future after all, I guess.
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Aug 10, 2021 13:04
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X-O posted:Substack, which I'd never heard of till recently, is apparently a terrible company so it's surprising to see so many cool people go there. I'm definitely not saying you're wrong, the actual company employees itself may be abysmal. But as an end content producer, they might not really care if the initial payout was worth it and they thought they could sustain it. Mr Hootington posted:Everyone is hoping they can find an audience willing to pay $5 a month to read blog posts.
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Aug 10, 2021 13:33
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Substack has spent lots of money recruiting famous transphobes to their service and advertising their messages and I'm sure it's nice to be getting paid as a comics creator but they're just helping legitimize the right's new favourite messaging platform.
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Aug 10, 2021 15:10
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yuuuup
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Aug 10, 2021 15:46
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Threep posted:Substack has spent lots of money recruiting famous transphobes to their service and advertising their messages and I'm sure it's nice to be getting paid as a comics creator but they're just helping legitimize the right's new favourite messaging platform. Yeah... I have only hear of it as a place to read crazy right wing newsletters before this
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Aug 10, 2021 15:49
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I mean honestly that sounds pretty terrible, and if they are moving to Substack it might be because they are secretly terrible people themselves.
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Aug 10, 2021 16:21
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Substack is definitely suspect in the sense that: a) In their VC thirst to attract prominent voices to their model, they threw money at lots of people, including some awful right wing/transphobe/'canceled' people. b) Their model is opaque and some people (for instance, explicitly most/all of these comics folks) they will actively recruit you and give you advance payments to get set up. Many people with Substacks are just setting it up themselves the same way you would a Patreon, OnlyFans, Ko-Fi, etc. There are tons of Substacks that range from explicitly leftist to explicitly conservative/transphobic/etc. There are many more in the middle covering pretty much whatever topic you can imagine. I wouldn't assume everyone taking Substack money has bad politics in the abstract; it's not a great look to hitch your wagon to a place where (at least as of late 2020) had some some pretty lovely people in their top earners mixed in with normal people*, and if it was explicit that they were actively recruiting Greenwald/Sullivan/Erickson for Substack Pro deals that is also really bad. The fact that they don't even disclose who does/doesn't get those deals is pretty bad, and you can judge Spencer/Tynion/Hickman/et al on the "doing business with bad companies" level but it's a huge leap to "Tynion is anti-trans" or something. To be clear, this is not to diminish any concerns people may have about creators hitching their wagon to Substack, it's more of a "it is a huge leap to "maybe they're secretly political boosters for the GOP/transphobes/whatever Matt Taibbi is these days" Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 16:43
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Given the amount of pro-trans content in Immortal Hulk, if Al Ewing is a lovely person he's in incredibly deep cover
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Aug 10, 2021 17:01
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Gologle posted:I mean honestly that sounds pretty terrible, and if they are moving to Substack it might be because they are secretly terrible people themselves. You heard it here first: Saladin Ahmed is a secret right wing CHUD.
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Aug 10, 2021 17:26
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Ahmed just launched Copper Bottle yesterday, his bespoke subscription platform where all his CO work is going to be published, haven't heard anything about him doing Substack though.
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Aug 10, 2021 17:36
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I haven't really seen any confirmation that Substack is making people sign exclusive contracts, so I don't know if I'd automatically assume that everybody doing Substack stuff is completely dropping work for hire. For example, although god knows people will say a lot of things in this kind of announcement, Tynion explicitly talks about just having too many things on his plate and having to choose something to drop, and I believe makes it pretty clear that he's going to continue to do his creator-owned stuff elsewhere. I guess we'll find out soon enough, probably. I'm going to be pretty heartbroken if Ewing leaves Marvel, but frankly while I like Excalibur I think Tini Howard's strengths are better served outside of a continuity-heavy setting and the past few months really suggest that barring whatever behind the scenes curatorial stuff he does the X-line is in fine shape with less of a heavy Hickman presence. That and I'm sure that if the whole architectural crew behind this status quo dips out he'd pass on his grand plan for the trajectory to somebody else, Duggan I guess, who seems pretty good at taking the baton for that Big Picture Hickmanian tone-- see Planet Sized.
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Aug 10, 2021 17:41
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rantmo posted:Ahmed just launched Copper Bottle yesterday, his bespoke subscription platform where all his CO work is going to be published, haven't heard anything about him doing Substack though. The site you just linked here is a Substack site.
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Aug 10, 2021 17:44
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Oh poo poo, I had no idea, I didn't catch that on the mobile site and he didn't mention that in his Patreon post announcing it. That's really disappointing.
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Aug 10, 2021 17:55
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I'm not sure if ewing has a substack of his own, is he just participating in Hickman's new comic? e: looking through his twitter i guess he came out as bi at the end of june? that's cool site fucked around with this message at 18:04 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 18:02
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I'll be honest, the main thing I like about Ewing is how he's able to work with Marvel's vast back catalog of weirdness, take that away and he's fine, but I'm less interested? Or maybe I'm just one of those fans who roots for the laundry and not the player.
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Aug 10, 2021 18:15
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howe_sam posted:I'll be honest, the main thing I like about Ewing is how he's able to work with Marvel's vast back catalog of weirdness, take that away and he's fine, but I'm less interested? Or maybe I'm just one of those fans who roots for the laundry and not the player. This is the thing I like about Hickman too.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:10
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I'm really curious about how this works on a pure nuts and bolts level, because given the shape of the comic book industry, the idea of throwing out a bunch of money to wrangle exclusive contracts with even the biggest names seems...not like a move that would be a great idea? Is there a lot of overhead involved with the traditional retail model that makes comics-via-newsletter a less hazardous financially?
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Aug 10, 2021 19:27
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OnimaruXLR posted:I'm really curious about how this works on a pure nuts and bolts level, because given the shape of the comic book industry, the idea of throwing out a bunch of money to wrangle exclusive contracts with even the biggest names seems...not like a move that would be a great idea? Not having to split profits with a distributer and retail stores and not having to pay for printing.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:54
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it's vc money, it's literally meant to be thrown away on high profile gets to spur further investment
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Aug 10, 2021 20:02
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Also, if the idea is 'every creator sets up their own paywalled site'... I'm not sure that's gonna be sustainable? Going to a store or a digital platform like Comixology, while having their own issues, has the element where big names like this can get eyes on their work. This is very much, to me, like asking the mountain to go to Mohammed. Like, hey, sure, get paid, but I'd want to know the model is workable, is gonna have legs for more than a couple years and that an audience is actually willing to use it. Edit: Like... looking at Tynion's statement about these deals... Substack isn't taking any stake in the publishing rights? So... like... can they just sell these comics through Image later? What about on Kindle or Nook or whatever other ebook platform? Like, I know it's a VC thing... but like... this looks like a loving money laundering scheme. Gaz-L fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 23:04
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Vince MechMahon posted:This is the thing I like about Hickman too. I guess this is me too. I saw the pitch and bailed pretty quick, before even knowing about substack. $80 a year to read yet another B&W flowchart universe that Hickman is writing? I've been reading that for at least 10 years now and I'm getting bored of it. Halfway through Swords of X I stopped reading the info dumps on the various cultures, and I got about 6 issues into Decorum before getting tired of that. This just seems like more of the same song he's been singing for years.
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Aug 11, 2021 00:09
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IUG posted:I guess this is me too. I saw the pitch and bailed pretty quick, before even knowing about substack. $80 a year to read yet another B&W flowchart universe that Hickman is writing? I've been reading that for at least 10 years now and I'm getting bored of it. Halfway through Swords of X I stopped reading the info dumps on the various cultures, and I got about 6 issues into Decorum before getting tired of that. This just seems like more of the same song he's been singing for years. I like his gimmick, but have ZERO interest in seeing him do it for OCs. The only thing that hooks me is how he uses the history of these characters to do weirdo poo poo.
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Aug 11, 2021 00:11
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Gaz-L posted:Also, if the idea is 'every creator sets up their own paywalled site'... I'm not sure that's gonna be sustainable? Going to a store or a digital platform like Comixology, while having their own issues, has the element where big names like this can get eyes on their work. This is very much, to me, like asking the mountain to go to Mohammed.
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Aug 11, 2021 00:12
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Yeah sorry creators, but I'm not buying anything through substack.
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Aug 11, 2021 00:16
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Nessus posted:People have been paying $3 or $4 a month for 20-odd pages of art and story plus advertisements for a while, at least to some extent. Yes, my point isn't the cost, it's that the additional hurdle of visiting 20 different sites is an impediment when previously you could get everything in one place. It's the iTunes or Steam issue. People sold music or games online before that, but there wasn't a convenient place to get them easily.
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Aug 11, 2021 00:36
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brb gonna make substaxology
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Aug 11, 2021 00:47
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site posted:brb gonna make substaxology Yeah the trick is to jump early so when Amazon buys Substack you get a payout out of it.
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Aug 11, 2021 00:48
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Yeah Hickman has kind of lost me in X-Men with his insane amount of charts, dossiers, secret cabals, and info dumps. That’s always been a part of his stuff and it was cool in those books but it’s become overwhelming in the X books. I’m definitely not up for more right now.
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Aug 11, 2021 00:58
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I was kind of excited for a new creator-owned initiative in comics until I heard about all of this bad stuff about Substack. Kind of a bummer that so many A-class writers are moving to a platform I don't want to use, but I'm definitely not giving money to a company that is so cavalier about transphobia.
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Aug 11, 2021 01:54
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There's been several attempts at writers or artist joining a company to push their own stuff. Image was the most successful of them. The rest usually folded or only returned now and then. So it's hard to be hyped for a new company really achieving anything long lasting based on history.
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Aug 11, 2021 04:09
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image is at least an actual comics publisher, as in, that is its specific purpose. substack is offering big deals to comics pros solely as a way to chase vc money and possibly movie deals, and they aren't in it for the craft or longevity
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Aug 11, 2021 04:24
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At this point I've accepted I largely only really care about Marvel/DC books, so I don't think I'll bother with all this stuff.
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Aug 11, 2021 04:51
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Roth posted:At this point I've accepted I largely only really care about Marvel/DC books, so I don't think I'll bother with all this stuff. Yeah, same. There are some owner created comics I have enjoyed, but it's far and few between. For the most part I guess I just like the characters and established universes. Like I love Al Ewing, but most of that is because he can take deep cuts from Marvel or spin some new takes on characters that need something of a freshening up.
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Aug 11, 2021 05:19
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zombo is good though It's probably obvious, but the inherent advantage of licensed comics (and that's what big two books really are, it's just that the company making the comics are also the license holders) is familiarity with the pieces involved. So people who enjoy Spider-Man are inclined to check out the new Spider-Man book just based on the fact that Spider-Man's in it, whereas when you're launching your own book you need to either have a homerun of a concept or a diehard reader base to get your stuff checked out. The most recent creator owned thing I got into was Once and Future and it took me like three years of people saying "Yes it's very good" in the background before I bothered checking it out. The fact that it seems to be all writers so far is a bit eyebrow raising too, because while the age of the superstar comic artist has kind of passed at this point, I'd be way more interested in checking outa Al Ewing x Ed McGuiness book or Al Ewing x Olivier Coipel over Al Ewing x some competent but workmanlike indie comics person that they can probably get for less money
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Aug 11, 2021 06:26
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Roth posted:At this point I've accepted I largely only really care about Marvel/DC books, so I don't think I'll bother with all this stuff. I care about creator owned work but only if it’s in print. I have no interest in paying for digital content outside of very favourable subscription models like MU.
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Aug 11, 2021 06:41
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site posted:image is at least an actual comics publisher, as in, that is its specific purpose. substack is offering big deals to comics pros solely as a way to chase vc money and possibly movie deals, and they aren't in it for the craft or longevity Exactly, even if you set aside my main concerns, ie, 1) I love the Marvel universe and I want these great writers to tell stories in it and 2) Substack hosts the blogs of some awful people, your point is important. This doesn’t feel like a well thought out effort to move digital comics forward, it feels like the kind of “disruption” that leaves a huge mess in its wake.
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Aug 11, 2021 07:10
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I like certain creator owned stuff. Sex Criminals was a treasure. A few others. Paper Girls, etc. But I'm not giving substack a dime even if I like their series there so it's a moot point.
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Aug 11, 2021 14:08
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