|
chiasaur11 posted:Bandai was actually planning to make a series for those kits. If you can believe it, they were in talks with pre-Gunbuster Daicon to do it. Turned out the contracts didn't let them go forward with it, though, leading to the Royal Space Force and Zeta being made instead. That's a couple years later when the MSV line came out
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 00:40
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 08:34 |
|
|
drrockso20 posted:That's a couple years later when the MSV line came out I mean, if I remember right the Agg was more a casualty of reduced episodes than an original design for the model kit line, and even if it isn't, there's a lot of difference between "Zeon had a few more monster-of-the-week suits" and "There was an EVEN BETTER Gundam that had ALL KINDS OF COOL POWERS that didn't influence anything for REASONS."
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 01:44
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:I mean, if I remember right the Agg was more a casualty of reduced episodes than an original design for the model kit line, and even if it isn't, there's a lot of difference between "Zeon had a few more monster-of-the-week suits" and "There was an EVEN BETTER Gundam that had ALL KINDS OF COOL POWERS that didn't influence anything for REASONS." Honestly the only one that really sticks out in that regard that doesn't make much sense is the GP series and that's mostly because deleting the whole project's existence is a ludicrous amount of overkill cover-up when all they needed to do was delete the records for the GP-02's Nuclear Bazooka(and just claim that the Delaz fleet just repurposed an old Zaku Nuclear Bazooka* for the GP-02 they stole), after all it had non-nuclear loadouts for it that was probably it's on paper official reason for development in the first place As for all the other side story and MSV Gundams around during the OYW or for a couple years after, well most of those actually around for any significant amount of time during the war were generally not particularly superior to the RX-78-2, the Ground Gundams and the Pixie are inferior in many respects for example, and many of the others are specialists that can't really be directly compared with it(like the various Full Armor style variants that trade off most of the Gundam's agility for increased firepower), the only ones that truly offer superior performance are the Alex, Units 04 & 05, and the Mudrock and of those four well the Alex and Mudrock both got hampered by suboptimal pilots(the former mostly because she's not a Newtype and the latter due to actual incompetence) and for the 04 & 05 well like the Alex they deployed so late in the war they didn't have much direct impact and the 04 ended up blowing itself up with it's experimental beam gun And most other examples are fully post war like the GP project or the 7th Gundam and thus aren't really all that relevant for the discussion at hand *especially since the Federation clearly did that themselves in the first place as the two are near identical in form and function beyond the GP-02 having that whole "store the barrel in the shield" bit and probably a much more powerful warhead
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 02:15
|
|
|
EthanSteele posted:I am reasonably certain the release order thing was meant to be for things that were related, like UC stuff, or filled with references like the gunpla shows. I don't think anyone would think it weird if someone watched IBO before G Gundam. Yeah this. The AUs are their own self-contained settings and narratives and can be treated as unrelated. If you're interested in watching UC, though, I feel like the experience is best if you watch them in the order they were made. I'd also consider F91 and Victory to be effectively AUs by this metric; they're UC series, but they're so far removed from the overarching Zeon-Federation conflict narrative framework of early UC that I don't feel like it really matters when you watch them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 02:16
|
|
|
The real insanity starts with what ended up getting backfilled into the gap between Zeta and 0083, also known as 'how much bullshit can we bolt onto a fancy GM Custom?'
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 03:42
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:Honestly the only one that really sticks out in that regard that doesn't make much sense is the GP series and that's mostly because deleting the whole project's existence is a ludicrous amount of overkill cover-up when all they needed to do was delete the records for the GP-02's Nuclear Bazooka(and just claim that the Delaz fleet just repurposed an old Zaku Nuclear Bazooka* for the GP-02 they stole), after all it had non-nuclear loadouts for it that was probably it's on paper official reason for development in the first place I think that's kind of an over-simplification personally, for a multitude of reasons. One of which is simply that the idea the Zaku used nuclear rounds is dubiously canon at best these days (and with 20+ years at this point), since it was only ever noted in Tomino's original setting notes ands some early databooks like Gundam Century and the first Entertainment Bible. Other material tended to portray the destruction of the Sides as being achieved in different ways. Tomino's own novels had the Sides destroyed using GG gas that Zeon pumped into the air supply for instance, while the animation has a shot of Char's Musai using it's mega particle cannons to shoot at a colony and there are shots of drifting colonies from Side 4 (I think it's Side 4 near Solomon during the One Year at least) that have large holes consistent with cannon blasts rather than explosives in them later in the show. Later animations like MS-IGLOO that depict some of that fighting didn't have nuclear weapons used either. I don't even think The Origin's animation had nuclear missiles used. As I said, so far as I know it was only a few early data books that suggested that Zeon used Zaku II's with nuclear warheads loaded into their bazooka, and it wasn't even all early databooks. The Roman Album in 1981, which I think was the first databook about Gundam, stated the Sides were destroyed using a mixture of biological and chemical weapons rather than nuclear ones. Beyond that though, I wouldn't say that the GP-02's nuclear bazooka is all that similar in form or function to the Zaku II's bazooka. The similarity is mostly "has a small trigger mechanism", and that's kind of it. As opposed to the larger trigger mechanism on Federation bazookas like those the Gundam used. The Zaku II's bazooka's body has a big rear end targeting sight sticking off the side, an exhaust that looks almost like rocket boosters on the end etc. None of which the GP-02's bazooka has. It's about as similar to the RX-78-2's bazooka as the Zaku II's, since it has the same exhaust port on the end as the one on the RX-78-2's bazooka's exhaust port. The fact that GP-02's bazooka is a combination of parts stored separately is a major part of it's form too, as is the fact it stores it's single round in the rear section of the bazooka rather than externally storing it. The function is dramatically different though, since the Zaku II bazooka is a normal bazooka shooting a shell that explodes on impact, while the GP-02's bazooka is a type of nuclear armament called a "Casaba Howizter" and instead detonates it's shell inside the bazooka itself and channels the energy of that detonation as a beam out of the barrel. That is a significant difference in function to any other bazooka in the setting that goes beyond "bigger bomb". tsob fucked around with this message at 10:54 on Aug 10, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 10:51
|
|
|
tsob posted:I think that's kind of an over-simplification personally, for a multitude of reasons. One of which is simply that the idea the Zaku used nuclear rounds is dubiously canon at best these days (and with 20+ years at this point), since it was only ever noted in Tomino's original setting notes ands some early databooks like Gundam Century and the first Entertainment Bible. Other material tended to portray the destruction of the Sides as being achieved in different ways. Tomino's own novels had the Sides destroyed using GG gas that Zeon pumped into the air supply for instance, while the animation has a shot of Char's Musai using it's mega particle cannons to shoot at a colony and there are shots of drifting colonies from Side 4 (I think it's Side 4 near Solomon during the One Year at least) that have large holes consistent with cannon blasts rather than explosives in them later in the show. Nah I'm not talking about the regular bazooka the Zaku II uses, they actually have a specific one for using Nuclear shells with, never shown up in anything animated though, only tertiary materials like Solomon Express or the Zeonography figure for Ramba Ral's Dali;  
|
|
#
?
Aug 10, 2021 17:52
|
|
|
Well the early production type's bazooka is said to be capable of using nuclear warheads and many of them were loaded with them, but how precisely that reflects animation is pretty vague, given that grunt ships go down to almost any sort of damage rather.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
drrockso20 posted:Nah I'm not talking about the regular bazooka the Zaku II uses, they actually have a specific one for using Nuclear shells with, never shown up in anything animated though, only tertiary materials like Solomon Express or the Zeonography figure for Ramba Ral's Dali; Is Dali an autocorrection or a pseudonym I've never heard for Zakus? I'm presuming autocorrection, but you never know. Regardless, Solomon Express and Zeonography were both produced a couple of years after Gundam 0083 and both are basically just a series of designs (one for custom gunpla magazines; one for a toy line), so Katoki and Kobayashi presumably based the designs in that on previous works to some degree. Including reusing the GP-02's bazooka in the Zaku Green Devil and Ral's Zaku you posted. Both Solomon Express and the Zeonography line are basically non-canon though. I say basically, because that may not even be the right way to think of them, since both are just the particular designers take on different designs in UC for the most part. It's more of an art-style difference than anything. That said, the Solomon Express line of designs didn't just limit that style of bazooka to Zeon, and the Federation designs used something akin to the GP-02's bazooka too. This is Kobayashi's take on the G3 Gundam, for instance.  The normal story for the the Zaku I is that it never really saw much use in the One Year War and was instead essentially a prototype and that Zeon had mass produced the Zaku II before the war and used it as their main mobile suit throughout the majority of the war; including at battles like Loum early in the war. The Zaku I's main role in the war was as a work unit. It was used to pump gas into colonies according to some sources, but didn't see much use as an actual fighting unit*. The Zaku Green Devil you posted, along with Ramba's unit are both Zaku I designs. That alone kind of runs counter to the normal line with Zeon units, since it suggests Zaku I's were used fairly heavily in the early parts of the war. Hell, Solomon Express has a Zaku I sub-type used during the Earth invasion with it's own nuclear bazooka and an i-field to protect it from radiation. Which is a fairly significant deviation, and not just an art style difference as I'd stated the units mostly are above. Kobayashi seems to prefer the simpler, more grunty designs though, so it's not really surprising he'd try to make the Zaku I a mainstay of his own work instead of the slightly more refined Zaku II. I think ultimately the reason for this is that the novels don't delineate between Zaku I and Zaku IIs; they're just Zakus. Including Char's custom Zaku, rather than a custom Zaku II. So I think that eventually bled into treating the Zaku I as a unit used in the early war, including when gas was injected into the colonies according to the novels. Shiro sees one Zaku I gassing a colony during his flashback in The 08th MS Team, busting into the colony through the walls to fire a gas canister into the atmosphere. Which may be an extension of the novel's description of Zeon gassing the colonies, and is probably where the idea that Zaku I's mostly saw use to destroy the colonies rather than to fight early in the war. I think that's probably the only overt mention of gas used on the colonies in animation too. Cima's backstory hints at it, but I don't think it's confirmed even in the Mayfly of Space animations, and I don't believe anything else directly tackles how the colonies were destroyed in animation. Gas and mega cannons seems to be the explanation nowadays though, rather than use of nuclear weapons as a few early sources (Tomino's notes and some data books) suggested. tsob fucked around with this message at 15:49 on Aug 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 15:24
|
|
|
how did qatre know trowa got his memory back how did dorothy know qatre was behind the gundams' tactics this show is such a clown fiesta
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 16:08
|
|
|
Relin posted:how did qatre know trowa got his memory back Wing woulda been a lot better if they'd thrown out the Zero system stuff and made Heero, Quatre, Zechs and Dorothy in newtypes or something.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 17:46
|
|
|
Well, Heero is "the heart of outer space". Whatever that means. It's something. I've no idea what, but it is something.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 18:02
|
|
|
Technowolf posted:Wing woulda been a lot better if they'd thrown out the Zero system stuff and made Heero, Quatre, Zechs and Dorothy in newtypes or something. It's cool actually that Wing didn't have newtypes. Or haros for that matter.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 18:14
|
|
|
i don't need to see wing's bad writing version of newtypes, just leave it as is
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:01
|
|
|
the zero system is cooler than newtypes so it's cool wing didn't have newtypes
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:09
|
|
|
Technowolf posted:Wing woulda been a lot better if they'd thrown out the Zero system stuff and made Heero, Quatre, Zechs and Dorothy in newtypes or something. Actually, the Zero system is really cool, and I'm glad Wing did something different.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
That’s right
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
Begemot posted:Actually, the Zero system is really cool, and I'm glad Wing did something different. 
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:31
|
|
|
I only know UC Gundam through games and a few episodes here and there, but just watched the original series compilation movies on Netflix. Because I want to experience a ton of Gundam before the world ends. I’m tired of being a fake Gundam guy who has only seen G Gundam, Wing, Turn A, part of some ZZ bootleg DVDs with incomprehensible translations, and 08th MS team. My take on newtypes is at first I thought they were adapted to space so they could orient themselves better and maybe had some ESP, then they were magic and it was less cool. Also this guy Char sucks, he’s portrayed so cool and noble in so much media but he is a bad person. Oh well time to order the Z blurays from rightstuf and maybe I’ll like newtypes more.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:35
|
|
|
Char, like Grand Admiral Thrawn from Star Wars, has a habit of being glossed over and given the Erwin Rommel treatment both in-universe and in the Fandom. In 0079 he is absolutely not a good person but the fact that he's against the Zabis and their genocidal tendencies makes people assume he's "one of the good ones." It's complicated because 0079 is also the series that really tries to hammer home that fighting for the wrong side doesn't always make you a bad person and your grandfather isn't a villain because Tojo was a butcher. So Char can end up getting the same pass, as it were, when he really doesn't deserve it. That Quattro fellow though, he's one of the good ones.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 19:54
|
|
|
Arcsquad12 posted:Char, like Grand Admiral Thrawn from Star Wars, has a habit of being glossed over and given the Erwin Rommel treatment both in-universe and in the Fandom. In 0079 he is absolutely not a good person but the fact that he's against the Zabis and their genocidal tendencies makes people assume he's "one of the good ones." It's complicated because 0079 is also the series that really tries to hammer home that fighting for the wrong side doesn't always make you a bad person and your grandfather isn't a villain because Tojo was a butcher. So Char can end up getting the same pass, as it were, when he really doesn't deserve it. See, that doesn't mesh with discussions of Char I've seen pretty much anywhere. He's generally less bad than the Zabis (not a high bar) but he's a murderous, double crossing, revenge driven rear end in a top hat, not a Ral style good man in bad circumstances. You don't root for Char because he's good. You root for Char because he's cool, and a sense of style makes up for a multitude of sins.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 20:45
|
|
|
First off Char never betrayed anyone. Secondly, You're right I've never seen anyone argue that Char was good, just interesting.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 20:52
|
|
|
i've seen more claims that zeon was right than char, but that's wehraboos for you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:09
|
|
|
chiasaur11 posted:See, that doesn't mesh with discussions of Char I've seen pretty much anywhere. He's generally less bad than the Zabis (not a high bar) but he's a murderous, double crossing, revenge driven rear end in a top hat, not a Ral style good man in bad circumstances. When I finally got around to watching the TV show 5 or 10 years back Ral was one of the things that left me most conflicted, because he was a good person to his men and even to strangers but at the same time I was just left wondering "why is he fighting for Zeon in the first place" given how good he's portrayed as being on a personal level? Which I'm honestly still not sure about. The Origin apparently does some work to explain it, by having him blackmailed through his family or something? I did find when I was watching the show that there's an implication that Zeon is using conscripts, which would presumably run to officers as people who rose in the ranks after being conscripted and that's maybe the most comfortable explanation for why Ral is fighting for Zeon despite the things they've done. Nothing else has ever supported that implication though, so it's just head-canon at this point. I don't know that it would have applied to Ramba or his men either, because they talk about being guerilla fighters in the past; so they obviously have some experience as soldiers. Which may have been in Degwin's original rebellion rather than anything to do with Zeon. As good as Ral was, he was still supporting a loving atrocious system of authoritarian mass murdering fuckheads who were happy to slaughter civilians at 4 Sides to help take power and it just makes me think that as good as Ral was on a personal level that it doesn't make you a good person. Which, maybe that was the intent? Not to say that you can be a good person even if you're fighting on the bad/wrong side, but that just because you seem nice doesn't make you a good person. Dozle was somewhat the same; he was a good person to his family and his men but that doesn't mean he wasn't party to some atrocious poo poo and kind of a bad person despite his good sides. There were certainly good people in Zeon, like the soldiers in "Time, Be Still" who just wanted to go home, but didn't hold it against Amuro and the White Base when they removed the bombs, the soldiers who helped the mother escape the battle and gave her supplies were good people etc. It's possible to see them as good people despite fighting for Zeon though because they seemed like cogs in the Zeon machine, fighting not for the cause but because they have to and trying to do good where they can within that stricture. Doan's Island is perhaps the best illustration of that point in 0079 though, as much as Tomino apparently hates it and wanted it cut from even the home releases (at least in the West), because when superiors ordered Doan to kill several kids after he accidentally killed their parents, he abandoned Zeon and went AWOL. It's one of the only times in UC at all that someone realizes how awful a faction can be on their own and just walks away from the fight; rather than having to be convinced by the protagonist and walking away from a faction at least partially due to the protagonist's charisma as for any idealism. tsob fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Aug 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:28
|
|
|
gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i've seen more claims that zeon was right than char, but that's wehraboos for you.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:31
|
|
|
That's sort of the whole point of MSG, Tomino teaching people of the younger generation how their Fathers, Grandfathers could've fought for such a reprehensible system of government as Imperial Japan, and yet still be caring family men.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:31
|
|
|
I have not seen The Origin, but Garma didn't seem awful and Char absolutely betrayed Garma. Degwin killed Zeon Zum for the power of it, then let Gihren do all kinds of war crimes so he's trash. Gihren loves war crimes and is cartoonishly evil. Kycilia seems to just be in it for gaining power and influence, so she is probably about as bad as Degwin. Ramba Ral owns though. I have no idea why he works for the Zabis since he seems to know the truth about Degwin and Zeon Zum, but he's a good guy.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that char is a good dude Same for most of the char clones. I guess harry ord would be The Good One?
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
I love the dumb alt history in Gundam vs. Zeta Gundam where Garma survives the One Year War and leads a resurgent Axis Zeon to victory against the Titans.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:41
|
|
|
You root for char because seeing fascists get headshot by an amoral motherfucker out for revenge feels good, especially since char was created by their murder of zeon. Char himself isn't a good dude so much as it's nice to see the murderous backstabbers get a taste of their own medicine
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:44
|
|
|
PringleCreamEgg posted:I have not seen The Origin, but Garma didn't seem awful and Char absolutely betrayed Garma. Degwin killed Zeon Zum for the power of it, then let Gihren do all kinds of war crimes so he's trash. Gihren loves war crimes and is cartoonishly evil. Kycilia seems to just be in it for gaining power and influence, so she is probably about as bad as Degwin. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGpP1wXCDMo It's a meme, but what he's saying is true. Char has only ever been self interested. Since his loyalty only lies with himself, the only way he could betray someone is if he double crossed himself. ninjewtsu posted:I don't think I've ever seen anyone say that char is a good dude Given how poo poo the SEEDverse is I think Rau was right. Also Meijin Kawaguchi and Schwarzbruder
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:47
|
|
|
I just wrapped up Victory Gundam episode 34... this show is killing me. Such bizarre shifts in tone. Mobile suits using giant tires as assault yo-yos. Land battleships designed to flatten all human habitation on earth... but also they fly. I'm morbidly excited to see whoever it is who is going to die. Was neat seeing people living underwater. And the land battleships work under water too so they can loop back and run over that place later... I did legit enjoy the scene where Odello has a shitfit and floats into a Zanscare repair ship and all the guys try to trap it by stuffing the vents with cans of food or whatever. Then... Uno puts a rag in Odello's mouth to make him stop having a seizure? What the gently caress happened there? Does anyone have any good reference of interviews or similar material about Victory's production? I know the general gist of Tomino being burned out and hating studio etc, but would love to know more about this mess. I wonder what Gundam fans thought of it at the time.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:56
|
|
|
PringleCreamEgg posted:I have not seen The Origin, but Garma didn't seem awful and Char absolutely betrayed Garma. Degwin killed Zeon Zum for the power of it, then let Gihren do all kinds of war crimes so he's trash. Gihren loves war crimes and is cartoonishly evil. Kycilia seems to just be in it for gaining power and influence, so she is probably about as bad as Degwin. Ral's family and his troops supported the old regime, which meant that they were running a risk of being unpersoned. At best, they'd work crappy assignments for bad pay. However, if Ral managed to, say, destroy the Gundam? Then suddenly they're all war heroes, and all that political disagreement gets swept under the rug. The Origin also adds that he and Dozle go way back, with Ral being one of his most trusted officers, until he quit over Operation British. (Then he came back, because his troops were suffering to punish him.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:57
|
|
|
ninjewtsu posted:I guess harry ord would be The Good One? Harry was apparently originally intended to be a more antagonistic character, but shifted to be more of a good guy over time during the writing from what I remember of translated excerpts of data books. I guess the Quattro stylings influenced the writers. Gaius Marius posted:It's a meme, but what he's saying is true. Char has only ever been self interested. Since his loyalty only lies with himself, the only way he could betray someone is if he double crossed himself. Betrayal isn't a one way street. You can be loyal to yourself, but that doesn't mean the other person doesn't feel betrayed. Gaius Marius posted:Given how poo poo the SEEDverse is I think Rau was right. Also Meijin Kawaguchi and Schwarzbruder Graham Aker is a good Char too. Mostly. He did work for the A-Laws, but he was never actually doing anything for or even with them and was just burrowing their resources to chase his own delusional revenge. Which is still iffy at best, but Graham as himself in season one and the movie was a good guy at the very least. Lancerow in X mostly seems to be a decent person and not actually interested in any foolish revenge or anything, as well as recognizing the shortcomings of his own side even if he continues to support the SRA. I don't think he condoned their more extreme actions during the time of the actual show either. He probably was just as dickish as Char 15 years ago, but time and experience seemed to mellow him. I suppose I could see an argument in favor of Luin in G-Reco too, since he was mostly fighting for what he thought was a worthy cause. He was wrong, but he thought he was doing right even if he wasn't and is able to let that go in the end. Which probably counts for something. Zarikov posted:Does anyone have any good reference of interviews or similar material about Victory's production? I know the general gist of Tomino being burned out and hating studio etc, but would love to know more about this mess. I wonder what Gundam fans thought of it at the time. This page discusses the production of Victory to some degree as setup for how working on Turn A helped Tomino recover from his depression. The stuff discussed mostly comes from translation of Tomino's book on the matter, which is basically called "The Healing Power of Turn A". tsob fucked around with this message at 22:02 on Aug 11, 2021 |
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 21:58
|
|
|
tsob posted:Graham Aker is a good Char too. Mostly. He did work for the A-Laws, but he was never actually doing anything for or even with them and was just burrowing their resources to chase his own delusional revenge. Which is still iffy at best, but Graham as himself in season one and the movie was a good guy at the very least. Lancerow in X mostly seems to be a decent person and not actually interested in any foolish revenge or anything, as well as recognizing the shortcomings of his own side even if he continues to support the SRA. I don't think he condoned their more extreme actions during the time of the actual show either. He probably was just as dickish as Char 15 years ago, but time and experience seemed to mellow him. I suppose I could see an argument in favor of Luin in G-Reco too, since he was mostly fighting for what he thought was a worthy cause. He was wrong, but he thought he was doing right even if he wasn't and is able to let that go in the end. Which probably counts for something. Luin's kind of the sitcom archnemesis version of a Char clone. He's not really in it for a grand cause, even if he does want better treatment for Kuntala. He's more the Frank Grimes to Bellri's Homer Jay Simpson. If we're looking for not-terrible guys in a mask with a vengeance boner, Gaelio is a pretty decent person overall.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 22:08
|
|
|
PringleCreamEgg posted:I have not seen The Origin, but Garma didn't seem awful and Char absolutely betrayed Garma. Degwin killed Zeon Zum for the power of it, then let Gihren do all kinds of war crimes so he's trash. Gihren loves war crimes and is cartoonishly evil. Kycilia seems to just be in it for gaining power and influence, so she is probably about as bad as Degwin. For reasons I still don't understand, Origin turns Garma into a bumbling dimwit. Which is pretty at odds with the suave pretty boy he's presented as in the original show.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 22:45
|
|
|
My main beef with origin is that it turns dozle into a loving of mice and men-assed manchild in pursuit of wanting to have its cake and eat it too
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 22:49
|
|
|
My only beef with Origin is when people conflate events with it and the original. They're separate works and need to be taken separately
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 22:51
|
|
|
Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:My main beef with origin is that it turns dozle into a loving of mice and men-assed manchild in pursuit of wanting to have its cake and eat it too Eh? He's loud and politically naive, but he's nowhere near stupid. The big moments of him not understanding things involve him being intentionally ignorant so he doesn't have to deal with the morality of his actions or confront the idea that he doesn't have the happy, loving family that he likes to imagine he does.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 23:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 5, 2024 08:34 |
|
|
His family has also been a gigantic blind spot to him. His one moment of self reflection following the colony drop is brought down by his love of his own family where he jumps through major mental gymnastics to justify genocide in the name of protecting his own loved ones.
|
|
#
?
Aug 11, 2021 23:12
|
|