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Finger Prince posted:I mean, the choice of $100k seems arbitrary. It's pretty high given the median income in the US is like $31k, or $61k for household, but in certain select high income areas, it comes across as far too low. It just sounds like a number that was chosen purely for optics, which it probably was. Yes but the benefit it applies to is a non-refundable tax credit, which means you need to make enough money but somehow not too much money (85k-99.9999k, single, 0 dependents, max 401k) to fully benefit from it. That and when you put into place a low msrp limit, you're going to filter out "rich" people anyways, since expensive cars are also a status symbol. The entire point of the bill was to minimize the number of people who benefit, and you know this is the case since it was largely passed by people who are known for not being EV advocates
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Aug 12, 2021 01:26
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Democrats means testing the absolute gently caress out of everything? Saying three voted for it doesn't sound the same as "47 voted against it" though.
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Aug 12, 2021 01:32
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gwrtheyrn posted:Yes but the benefit it applies to is a non-refundable tax credit, which means you need to make enough money but somehow not too much money (85k-99.9999k, single, 0 dependents, max 401k) to fully benefit from it. That and when you put into place a low msrp limit, you're going to filter out "rich" people anyways, since expensive cars are also a status symbol. The entire point of the bill was to minimize the number of people who benefit, and you know this is the case since it was largely passed by people who are known for not being EV advocates I understand your point, now you put it that way. I should have known better than to imagine senators representing their constituents, lol! I kind of get mixed up with motives, being more familiar with the Canadian method (MSRP limit but no income limit, and a fixed amount cash rebate), which I like, and the labyrinthine tax fiddling US method.
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Aug 12, 2021 01:38
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Lots of people posting lots of words about a non-binding resolution that means absolutely nothing.
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Aug 12, 2021 01:52
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cruft posted:LOL, no, I hadn't even considered that. It followed the new car market up, and new cars are climbing because of shortages. Also, the rental companies hosed the market when they divested their fleets last year.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:04
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Deteriorata posted:Lots of people posting lots of words about a non-binding resolution that means absolutely nothing. They still need Manchin, Sinema and Kelly to pass the reconciliation bill which has the majority of the clean energy initiatives so their voting to cut tax credits for EVs, even in a non-binding fashion, is not a great sign if you’re hoping to see credits expanded.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:38
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YOLOsubmarine posted:They still need Manchin, Sinema and Kelly to pass the reconciliation bill which has the majority of the clean energy initiatives so their voting to cut tax credits for EVs, even in a non-binding fashion, is not a great sign if you’re hoping to see credits expanded. Let me know when they vote on something that is an actual law.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:57
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Deteriorata posted:Let me know when they vote on something that is an actual law. You know if you’re not interested in the current conversation you can simply not post.
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Aug 12, 2021 03:13
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LoL How did I know Sinema would be on the list. She needs to be dropped in a tank of acid.
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Aug 12, 2021 03:18
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YOLOsubmarine posted:You know if you’re not interested in the current conversation you can simply not post. To be fair this is still AI, not D&D, so it's fair for people to not be interested.
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Aug 12, 2021 03:27
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Charles posted:To be fair this is still AI, not D&D, so it's fair for people to not be interested. Yes, and they can just not post about it and instead post about something that does interest them. US EV credits and potential changes to them have been a hot topic in the thread lately and that involves engaging with American politics, which are extremely stupid.
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Aug 12, 2021 03:37
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I am in Canada and didn’t know that the EV credit could be applied as long as the base model was under 55k, I could swear I priced out a model 3 once and went above the price with the awd trim and all the credits on their site disappeared. I’m in BC perhaps it is different.
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Aug 12, 2021 04:51
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priznat posted:I am in Canada and didn’t know that the EV credit could be applied as long as the base model was under 55k, I could swear I priced out a model 3 once and went above the price with the awd trim and all the credits on their site disappeared. I’m in BC perhaps it is different. For whatever reason, the only model 3 that qualifies is the standard range and standard range plus. So there's something going on with the way they decide whether something is an optional equipment package, or a next higher base price trim level. Like, if you could get a base model car x and adding the technology package pushes it above the limit, it still qualifies. But if you select the deluxe model that already includes the technology package but starts at a higher MSRP, that wouldn't qualify. So by picking the AWD model 3, which stars above $55k, you lose the rebate. That's my understanding anyway. The master list: https://tc.canada.ca/en/road-transportation/innovative-technologies/zero-emission-vehicles/list-eligible-vehicles-under-izev-program
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Aug 12, 2021 10:16
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Citizen Z posted:I really need Ford to make an EV Ranger. They already did, twenty years ago.
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Aug 12, 2021 12:28
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I had to buy a friend dinner last night when I was proven wrong: there was, in fact, a hybrid F150, introduced last year. Why didn't you jerks make sure I knew this? You all owe me dinner now.
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Aug 12, 2021 13:56
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cruft posted:I had to buy a friend dinner last night when I was proven wrong: there was, in fact, a hybrid F150, introduced last year. I think we discussed that once the lightning presentation came out so sorry but it’s not like we never talked about it 
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Aug 12, 2021 15:10
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I thought I saw comments about the Lightning test mules using Hybrid bodywork. Specifically seeing identical warnings about not using the power panel indoors. Which everyone agreed is a very important warning for the hybrid, but a rather dumb warning for the Lightning. Granted, that may have been like a half page discussion at best.
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Aug 12, 2021 16:27
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cruft posted:I had to buy a friend dinner last night when I was proven wrong: there was, in fact, a hybrid F150, introduced last year. Pretty sure it came up during the big Texas power outage because there was discussion about people using the onboard generator to power things in their houses.
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Aug 12, 2021 16:45
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Checked out the EUV today. Was pretty dang neat if only to see it in person Shock green/yellow is the only acceptable Bolt color.
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Aug 12, 2021 17:00
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QuarkJets posted:It's easy to argue against msrp limits, your second sentence effortlessly gives a really good argument against them. If the goal is to speed up ev adoption then the incentive should exist for all prices and manufacturers, with no limits (yes, get rid of the manufacturer limit too, let Tesla buyers back in). If it's specifically to help lower income people afford an ev then instead of an individual rebate we need to reimburse dealers who apply the discount directly to the sticker price I think it's also to encourage manufacturers to release more EV econoboxes whose margins are lower, but who can bake in the credit as a profit margin.
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Aug 12, 2021 17:08
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YOLOsubmarine posted:Pretty sure it came up during the big Texas power outage because there was discussion about people using the onboard generator to power things in their houses. I don't doubt this. But I'm thinkin' a burrito for dinner would be nice. Y'all start digging in your couches for spare change.
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Aug 12, 2021 17:41
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Looks like Kandi updated their website, and you can order some of them now! They sell two versions of each model, one is a "real" car, the other is a "neighborhood electric vehicle" (like the Changli Freeman). The difference from what I can tell is the NEVs have an even smaller battery and speed limiters. These look like they're the only ones available so far. I am very interested to see how many of these they sell. 10? 20? 21?? I'm also tempted to buy an official Kandi shirt and/or face mask.
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Aug 12, 2021 18:37
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~~hydrogen stories~~ I have learned that the reason I can’t always pull the gas pump out right away is because it freezes to the car’s receptacle. Had a nice little ring of frost around the car’s nozzle when I did get it out, maybe 90 seconds after the fill up. Also the car has a bit too much off-the-line pep for the tires sometimes. Made a little squeal at a green light last night.
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Aug 12, 2021 18:38
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Tayter Swift posted:~~hydrogen stories~~ https://memes.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0f14ea87-3e9f-4fa8-a68c-10d73d742107 Tayter Swift posted:Also the car has a bit too much off-the-line pep for the tires sometimes. Made a little squeal at a green light last night. Yeah I've had to learn to make sure there's grip before accelerating in the Spark EV because of this. If I just gun it at a light I'll just sit there and spin.
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Aug 12, 2021 18:43
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Wayne Knight posted:Looks like Kandi updated their website, and you can order some of them now! That is significantly more than the Changli's advertised price. I mean, it looks like a significantly better car, to. But you could get a used Leaf for half that price, and get more range as well as freeway speeds and seating for four. On the other hand, you probably don't need a driver license for this in most US states. I wonder who's going to buy one. e: oh, this has seating for four too. I guess if you're going to get technical, the Leaf has seating for five. 
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Aug 12, 2021 19:06
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Wayne Knight posted:https://memes.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0f14ea87-3e9f-4fa8-a68c-10d73d742107 WTF, are you disabling the traction control? Even a LEAF has more than enough power to blow the tires off, but the electronic systems mostly forbid it.
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Aug 12, 2021 19:12
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LRADIKAL posted:WTF, are you disabling the traction control? Even a LEAF has more than enough power to blow the tires off, but the electronic systems mostly forbid it. The 2014 Spark EV has 400 ft lbs, not sure about the following years but still a lot
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Aug 12, 2021 19:18
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Yeah mine's a 2014. The tires are probably getting close to needing to be replaced, too. Traction control will kick in, but after a good bit of spin. Just way too much power for those tiny ecopias.
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Aug 12, 2021 20:19
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Torque truly is cheap.
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Aug 12, 2021 21:02
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QuarkJets posted:Come on Paul we're just asking you to put in your share of the tip, we just had a nice lunch why do you always do this EV thread mk 3 - C'mon Paul we just had a nice lunch why do you always do this. Digging the new thread title  .
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Aug 12, 2021 21:04
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cruft posted:Well we don't *have* public transit here, so. The used car market is nuts because there basically are no new cars in quantity due to shortages of, well, everything, but mainly computer processors. Sell the LEaf now, make as much bank as you can, and buy a better one when prices drop back down to sane levels, if that's possible. cruft posted:I had to buy a friend dinner last night when I was proven wrong: there was, in fact, a hybrid F150, introduced last year. Dude used one here in the Dallas area during the Snowpacolypse to power his and his neighbors houses (not all at the same time.) e: f,b. YOLOsubmarine posted:Pretty sure it came up during the big Texas power outage because there was discussion about people using the onboard generator to power things in their houses.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:06
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cruft posted:I had to buy a friend dinner last night when I was proven wrong: there was, in fact, a hybrid F150, introduced last year. I thought that everyone knew about that because of this gimmick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEIN6-cVLRg
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Aug 13, 2021 01:15
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Platystemon posted:I thought that everyone knew about that because of this gimmick. Or all the people in Texas who powered their homes with their F-150s during the blackout.
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Aug 13, 2021 04:08
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Hi EV thread, minor housekeeping - quote:How did I know Sinema would be on the list. She needs to be dropped in a tank of acid. While I understand the frustration about poo poo politicans (lord knows I share that frustration and anger), there's a preference by Something Awful admins these days that wishing death or hurt on politicans or other people not be posted. I'll be happy to discuss via PM if anyone has questions or wants clarification. CAT INTERCEPTOR fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Aug 13, 2021 |
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Aug 13, 2021 06:03
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Gonna drive-by post (heh  ) a cool picture I took of my car earlier:
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Aug 13, 2021 08:07
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Westy543 posted:Gonna drive-by post (heh go post it in D&D
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Aug 13, 2021 08:18
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cruft posted:The battery replacement on the Leaf is probably topical, so I'll talk about it more. I see you have a 30 kWh - so did I. If you can burn out the battery enough that its down to 8 bars, Nissan will do all the work for you for free! I now have a 40 kWh in a 2016 leaf - which isn't 200 miles, but instead is 230 km - you just need to trick junior into not understanding unit conversion!
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Aug 13, 2021 17:43
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“Blue” hydrogen is worse for the climate than coal, study says (Ars Technica)quote:When produced using solar and wind power, hydrogen is a zero-carbon fuel, and while refitting natural gas infrastructure would be expensive, it would give gas-only utilities a reason to exist.  The conclusion from the original study is pretty brutal: quote:This best-case scenario for producing blue hydrogen, using renewable electricity instead of natural gas to power the processes, suggests to us that there really is no role for blue hydrogen in a carbon-free future. Greenhouse gas emissions remain high, and there would also be a substantial consumption of renewable electricity, which represents an opportunity cost. We believe the renewable electricity could be better used by society in other ways, replacing the use of fossil fuels.
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Aug 14, 2021 15:35
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Jesus christ and it's not even just a little worse than natural gas, that's like a full 20% greater greenhouse gas footprint. So with blue hydrogen a little bit of the CO2 is captured in exchange for emitting way more methane than natural gas. Sweet
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Aug 14, 2021 18:19
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QuarkJets posted:Jesus christ and it's not even just a little worse than natural gas, that's like a full 20% greater greenhouse gas footprint. So with blue hydrogen a little bit of the CO2 is captured in exchange for emitting way more methane than natural gas. Sweet Pretty much. The authors did a sensitivity analysis of the methane emissions produced by blue hydrogen in a variety of scenarios and none of the results were encouraging. Here is Table 2 from the paper (the sources for these values are provided in the section above the table)  There's a typo in the first column of the second row; it should say "GWP20 = 86" rather than "GWP20 = 8", but that doesn't affect the values in the remaining columns.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:56
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