(Thread IKs:
Captain Foo)
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I was encouraged to hear Chris say that they'll be shrinking the Atlas grind next league, as well as admitting that they are not happy with some of the changes they made this league and are looking at ways of addressing it. The rest I could take or leave. It's a tough tightrope to walk to make more skills and builds viable while ensuring that it feels meaty to get to that point, and GGG wants the game to feel rewarding to a wide variety of players. I'm still not convinced that the nerfs resulted in more build diversity, but GGG has more data on that than I do. Personally, I'd be more encouraged to play different builds if I was reasonably sure that any given skill could progress smoothly into the endgame, or that I could specialize in doing different kinds of content without feeling like I first had to complete 32 watchstones, maven passives, awakening bonus, etc. before specializing. I don't really mind if some skill is really strong this league - that doesn't drive me away from playing other skills. I'd definitely be more likely to play an extremely broken skill on league start...because I want to reduce the amount of time and effort it takes to set up my Atlas and get everything done. After that I'll play more builds and characters. If I have a poor time on league start, I'm much less likely to play more. That said, my experience is not representative of a lot of other players. Some people only want to play one build, some may just quit instead if they see something that is much better than what they're playing, etc.
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Aug 12, 2021 21:25
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| # ? May 26, 2024 16:57 |
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euphronius posted:I think this league was more of a marketing / pr disaster . People decided to not play it before it even launched !!? I mean, look, not to beat a dead horse but I have little sympathy for last minute untested changes being unpopular. That’s a hellish environment to be in as dev / qa and they should know better.
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Aug 12, 2021 21:27
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qnqnx posted:Turns up that PathOfMatth was ahead of the community meta. lol, irony.
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Aug 12, 2021 21:34
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The thing I'm most excited about is them looking to condense the atlas grind. I ditched this league basically a dozen or two maps after leaving the campaign in week 1 because the idea of checking off 300+ maps to get my atlas bonuses and Maven passives in a place to make farming fun (to me) was just a huge nope from me. I really didn't fancy playing the game for two weeks in order to get to the fun part again -- I've played since Harbinger and I'm super over that portion of the game. I realise some people (including a friend of mine) find that part of the game fun to do, but taking what could easily amount to 100+ maps ran (cutting from 164 maps to 100, running for Awakening bonuses and Maven witnesses) off that process sounds really good to me!
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Aug 12, 2021 21:52
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MMF Freeway posted:If Chris mode is SSFHC with super reduced item and currency drops rates that doesn't need to be balanced around and is being added just because they think a few people will think its fun, then why not a SSFSC mode with super increased item and currency drop rates that doesn't need to be balanced around and a few people will think is fun? Why is it that only players on one end of the spectrum get a cool new mode? That's why I'm miffed -- I think two of the guys tried to ask Chris this exact question, but one of them made the unfortunate mistake of to using the word 'OG Harvest Mode'. The mere mention of Harvest seemed to flip a switch and trigger something in Chris' brain and he went into a long tangent about Harvest. I just wanted him to answer the question. Wuxi posted:Because GGG has by now realized that they have to keep a really tight lid on what power they give into the hands of the players, because you can't take it away without causing a shitstorm. This is probably the actual answer. facepalmolive fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 22:03
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Also because any sort of "easy" mode would have to be a void league also, which makes it even more of a niche thing. Just turning up drop rates doesn't really make it significantly easier also unless they are sky high, it would need significantly more development time to find a balanced fun version of an easy mode. It's also just not the game they want to make.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:11
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I dunno why people got bent out of shape about void leagues. Nobody plays standard anyways but there'd always be a ton of bitching.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:18
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Was gonna say, every league is void league for most players i guess.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:24
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They are, but there's a psychological difference when it's forcefully taking those items/characters away from you at the end. Even if most people don't care about standard there still has been drastically fewer players that tend interact with void leagues in the past.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:27
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queeb posted:I dunno why people got bent out of shape about void leagues. Nobody plays standard anyways but there'd always be a ton of bitching. Every once in awhile, once in awhile in a blue moon, I log on old characters in standard and like do a map or 2. Just for fun, nothing serious.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:27
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Aye Doc posted:softcore, hardcore, Chris Mode softcore, hardcore, chriscore
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Aug 12, 2021 22:35
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death threats = people making fun of you in twitch chat btw lmao (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 12, 2021 22:41
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frajaq posted:death threats = people making fun of you in twitch chat btw lmao what
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Aug 12, 2021 22:46
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queeb posted:I dunno why people got bent out of shape about void leagues. Nobody plays standard anyways but there'd always be a ton of bitching. My brother actually plays Standard! He's using it to build the most powerful Glacial Hammer Templar possible. When he gets bored at the end of any given league he liquidates all his poo poo and either purchases upgrades for that character or waits for the raw currency to funnel down to look for/craft stuff in Standard. He's been at it for years and last I checked he said he was approaching mirror-tier gear even with the wonky way he's building.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:48
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frajaq posted:death threats = people making fun of you in twitch chat btw lmao Pretty sure it was through DMs and emails, not trash talking in chat.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:48
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Hamelekim posted:Pretty sure it was through DMs and emails, not trash talking in chat. guess which one hes way more bent out of shape about and is enganging in some weird drama with that other Quin streamer some of these streamers can be straight up nuts I wouldn't be surprised if they lie or exagerate things constantly
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Aug 12, 2021 22:52
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frajaq posted:guess which one hes way more bent out of shape about and is enganging in some weird drama with that other Quin streamer This is a really weird take
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Aug 12, 2021 22:53
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frajaq posted:some of these streamers can be straight up nuts I wouldn't be surprised if they lie or exagerate things constantly You just described the human race. There is nothing special about streamers as human beings.
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Aug 12, 2021 22:55
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Hamelekim posted:You just described the human race. There is nothing special about streamers as human beings. Truth.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:00
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MMF Freeway posted:Also I do want to point out that SSF even with hugely increased drop rates would still be harder than SC trade It would not, because I wouldn't have dealing with trade making me bored and quitting my gaming early, or if it happens enough times in a row, quitting the league entirely. The greatest challenge to overcome in poe is having more fun than the game is unfun, tedious, or boring, so a regular mode which erases some of the tedium is by definition a much easier mode.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:25
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Cinara posted:Also because any sort of "easy" mode would have to be a void league also, which makes it even more of a niche thing. Just turning up drop rates doesn't really make it significantly easier also unless they are sky high, it would need significantly more development time to find a balanced fun version of an easy mode. Yeah, I was assuming from the start that it'd be a void league -- or really, something that's completely separate and isolated from the base game. I guess I kinda assumed that Chris Mode would've been voided as well, but that doesn't have to be the case I suppose. Is Royale mode voided as well? frajaq posted:guess which one hes way more bent out of shape about and is enganging in some weird drama with that other Quin streamer If you're talking about Raiz, where'd you get this take from? I didn't pick up those vibes at all from Raiz's rant, but then again I'm prob out of the PoE drama loop.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:30
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facepalmolive posted:Yeah, I was assuming from the start that it'd be a void league -- or really, something that's completely separate and isolated from the base game. I guess I kinda assumed that Chris Mode would've been voided as well, but that doesn't have to be the case I suppose. There's no reason for Chris mode to be voided, it's just straight worse than the normal game. It's the same reason you can do mods on private leagues and those are not voided, none of the mods make the game easier. Royale is voided yes.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:37
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facepalmolive posted:If you're talking about Raiz, where'd you get this take from? I didn't pick up those vibes at all from Raiz's rant, but then again I'm prob out of the PoE drama loop. weird drama streamers being streamers etc https://twitter.com/quinrex/status/1425670453704548352 https://twitch.tv/videos/1116020659?t=2259s https://twitter.com/RaizQT/status/1425867448402726920 frajaq fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 23:37
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Yeah it's not weird at all to be hurt that a huge streamer encourages and condones personal attacks on you. When you're receiving overwhelmingly negative messages I think it's pretty reasonable to call out a major source of them, and it's pretty reasonable to be upset about it. Nobody is defending the death threats, so there's not more to say. But quin is basically trying to gaslight a much smaller streamer about verbal abuse that his fanbase is flinging around.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:46
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too long do not tweet.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:53
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deaths threats just increase my hardcore immersion
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Aug 13, 2021 00:06
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frajaq posted:weird drama streamers being streamers etc What an rear end in a top hat.
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Aug 13, 2021 00:11
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Quin read two sentences of Raiz tweet at the start of his stream, misunderstood everything, said its BS and his chat i fine because its his chat. It was infuriating. I know Quin has a lot of cooked takes but that was extreme, and I have watched a lot of Quin, but Raiz is my main strimmer.
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Aug 13, 2021 00:15
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Zizaran mentioned how Quin unfollowed him on twitter after he said something about quin and quin was having a bad day and took it wrong. This was after constant "meming" back and forth. So he can dish it out but can't take it apparently. He's a hypocrite and an rear end in a top hat. I used to enjoy watching the guy, but the more I see the less I like the guy.
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Aug 13, 2021 00:20
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Jesus. This is the most destructive patch I've ever seen in an online game, lol. Ruined the thread here, Reddit even more negative than usual. Chris goes on a podcast to try to quell poo poo, *makes it worse*, and now The Streamers are in-fighting. Although I've been watching some of the vod of cutedog and his "streamer alignment" and that's been pretty funny. Everyone so far has just been good-natured ribbing each other.
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Aug 13, 2021 00:22
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interrodactyl posted:
Like "chase item", I think "build diversity" is a term that players and GGG are having trouble seeing eye to eye on. I think players talking about build diversity are looking at builds that can at least somewhat do endgame stuff. They look at poe.ninja or some equivalent for ideas and data to discuss build diversity. GGG is probably pulling data from a much larger set of characters to judge build diversity, like builds that are sputtering around at level 72 in white maps before deciding the build is poo poo and rerolling or quitting. If you asked players about that, they'd probably say that build shouldn't count. GGG might say "why not?" and then oops the discussion goes down the game design rabbit hole.
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Aug 13, 2021 00:29
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Using ladder stats(1500 top players aka poeninja) to define good build diversity is most likely a bad course of action. 100k players that's only 1.5% of the playerbase, 50k players that's still only 3% of the playerbase.
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Aug 13, 2021 00:46
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xZAOx posted:Jesus. It's very wild, the next year or so is going to be quite the business case study. How many 10+ year old games are experiencing year over year user growth and success? How many 10+ year old games, regardless of how well they are doing, have a patch to address "the long term health" of the game? 10+ year old games are already frickin ancient by videogame standards! If the next couple of patches do get the game turned around it might well be unprecedented for a game that old to tank its userbase and make a comeback. Especially considering how closely intertwined poe and poe2 will be. This patch also served as some strong anti-hype for poe2. The next several patches will be very interesting from a business perspective.
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Aug 13, 2021 00:50
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Yeah it's pretty impossible to quantify build diversity since players get funneled into meta builds across both the casual and hardcore audience and just because something isn't popular doesn't mean it's not viable.
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Aug 13, 2021 00:54
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J posted:It's very wild, the next year or so is going to be quite the business case study. How many 10+ year old games are experiencing year over year user growth and success? How many 10+ year old games, regardless of how well they are doing, have a patch to address "the long term health" of the game? 10+ year old games are already frickin ancient by videogame standards! Yeah but CCP had a bad patch so despite a decade of growth from basically nothing, they know literally nothing about what they're doing, according to reddit.
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Aug 13, 2021 01:06
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Tenzarin posted:Using ladder stats(1500 top players aka poeninja) to define good build diversity is most likely a bad course of action. 100k players that's only 1.5% of the playerbase, 50k players that's still only 3% of the playerbase. It's a good metric for what people are actually taking to 100 though. Tons of people are playing hierophants and berserkers but there aren't so many past 95
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Aug 13, 2021 01:11
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Flavahbeast posted:It's a good metric for what people are actually taking to 100 though. Tons of people are playing hierophants and berserkers but there aren't so many past 95 Not that many players really hit 100 though. I tend to stop mid to high 90s myself, I only went for 100 once just to do it. Most streamers themselves say they only play until like 92 or so. There's no way their making back on the ladder as the range gets even narrower. Right now there isnt too many people playing but you would still need to get above 95 and an unknown amount of exp to 96 to even be seen on poeninja atm. Really can't trust the 'build diversity' that the streamers moan about because I don't think they are really correlating it to the correct amount of people.
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Aug 13, 2021 01:19
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Tenzarin posted:Using ladder stats(1500 top players aka poeninja) to define good build diversity is most likely a bad course of action. 100k players that's only 1.5% of the playerbase, 50k players that's still only 3% of the playerbase. if people are stopping far earlier then they're either burning out on the league (which is a bad sign) or their build is bad (also a bad sign for build diversity). i don't think there are many mythical good builds which are going to be played by a very small subset of the userbase and also never reach levels beyond 80-90. the only exception are builds that typically require an extreme amount of investment to make weird poo poo happen and those are only going to be viable for either streamers or people that played another meta build to completion. there's also the other side of the coin which is that most of the playerbase will literally never get to maps. if you've gotten to maps then congrats you're probably already among the upper echelons of the playerbase and at what point should we actually consider build diversity? is it when most people are playing the game and going through the campaign, early-mid map completion or fully completed 90+ characters?
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Aug 13, 2021 02:27
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FZeroRacer posted:i mean from a pure statistical perspective that's more than enough data to quantify build diversity. You're assuming that the sample of the data set is representative. It is not.
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Aug 13, 2021 02:31
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| # ? May 26, 2024 16:57 |
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Is there an example of a league where poe.ninja indicated particularly good build diversity? I can only remember the really lopsided ones like legion
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Aug 13, 2021 02:33
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