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Question, how do you pull up the god screen that has their paths and dominions? Is it in the UI or a specific keystroke?
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Aug 11, 2021 17:09
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Tulip posted:I feel like it's perfectly explicable, they're dwalves, cousins of elves, not dwarves at all. Umm, Actually they're cousins of the noble peoples the Eldves. Please appreciate the legal distinction.
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Aug 11, 2021 17:10
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Donkringel posted:Question, how do you pull up the god screen that has their paths and dominions? Is it in the UI or a specific keystroke? You can't, presumably Lukas asked the player to share their god for the post-mortem.
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Aug 11, 2021 17:28
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Donkringel posted:Question, how do you pull up the god screen that has their paths and dominions? Is it in the UI or a specific keystroke? Yeah, Cobald PMed it to me. They were a bit frustrated, but frankly? That's justified. Cobald posted:It was going to be so nice, too! Unfortunately, this nation has small numbers of high res/gold cost elite dwalves. This is fine for expansion, but not fine when one of your neighbors has actual machine guns and respawning commanders. You know, the Metal Slug nation I do think there are ways this could have been turned in their favour, but between Ramc orchestrating a bump (thanks, ramc!) and just the overall morale damage from the various forts being brutally shut down I think they just gave up and I cannot say I wouldn't have done the same under the circumstances. A few other people have shared their gods (Purple did it in the thread, and I have access to a few others for various reasons as well) so I'll try to include the god+scales picture for every nation I give an overview to. Which won't be all of them, so I might do a god collection at some point.
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Aug 11, 2021 18:31
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Y'know, this might be the babbling of a complete ignoramus, but if mages are so scary, ARMORED mages are probably outright TERRIFYING because you can't rely on the traditional counter (i.e. arrows) to be nearly as effective as they would be against those guys who show up to battles in their pajamas.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:01
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CptWedgie posted:Y'know, this might be the babbling of a complete ignoramus, but if mages are so scary, ARMORED mages are probably outright TERRIFYING because you can't rely on the traditional counter (i.e. arrows) to be nearly as effective as they would be against those guys who show up to battles in their pajamas. Armor encumbrance makes spellcasting way more exhausting and that is a huge liability to them accomplishing their primary function (casting spells). Good news there are tons of spells to make you harder to kill.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:30
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CptWedgie posted:Y'know, this might be the babbling of a complete ignoramus, but if mages are so scary, ARMORED mages are probably outright TERRIFYING because you can't rely on the traditional counter (i.e. arrows) to be nearly as effective as they would be against those guys who show up to battles in their pajamas. Not that scary. Think of it as more of a sanity buff than anything. Means you don't have to worry as much about bad RNG one-shotting a mage, or about the rather scary wall defenders that sometimes pop up. The one with the hat is way better than the one with the armor though, as arrows are more likely to hit the head. On a personal level I dislike armoured mages because it means resources that could be spent on troops being 'wasted'. They're not really worth it, and most of the stuff that kills mages (attack rear flyers, spells, the zapp brannigan solution) doesn't care how much prot they have or don't have. Ramc posted:Armor encumbrance makes spellcasting way more exhausting and that is a huge liability to them accomplishing their primary function (casting spells). All the Dwalves are spellsingers, so that's less of a liability in this specific case.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:36
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LukasR23 posted:All the Dwalves are spellsingers, so that's less of a liability in this specific case. I would simply follow the example of the Empress-Queens of EA Cassia and create a superior body proof against mundane harm and thus have the invulnerable(10) flag.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:42
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CptWedgie posted:Y'know, this might be the babbling of a complete ignoramus, but if mages are so scary, ARMORED mages are probably outright TERRIFYING because you can't rely on the traditional counter (i.e. arrows) to be nearly as effective as they would be against those guys who show up to battles in their pajamas. To an extent yes, but the thing you're missing is encumbrance. Most actions a unit performs other than just moving generates fatigue, with said fatigue value being equal to that unit's encumbrance - so for example that super heavily armored S1H1 Runic Captain has an encumbrance of 6. Encumbrance itself is a value that's gotten from a combination of a unit's base encumbrance (which can vary depending on race) combined with their armor - so to continue the example, the Runic Captain has 2 base Encumbrance plus 4 from his armor and shield. For spellcasting, encumbrance from armor is DOUBLED, so that Runic Captain is gaining 10 fatigue every time he casts a spell, on top of whatever fatigue the spell itself generates to cast. Compare that to the Dwalve mages in cloth armor only generating 2 extra fatigue for each spell. What does fatigue do? There's a few effects - first, a unit's attack and defense take linear penalties as you start gaining fatigue, and the chance of a critical hit on them also goes up. Second, if you hit 100 then it's lights out - the unit just goes unconscious until it drops below 100 again. Third, though only applicable in certain forced circumstances, if the unit is at 200 fatigue and continues gaining it (generally only a thing from communions) then they start taking direct HP damage. Fatigue recovery is at a base rate of 1 per round, or 5 per round if above 100, plus any reinvig they might have from some source or another, so it doesn't exactly recover quickly. So basically, yeah, an armored mage is harder to kill, but they generally fatigue out much faster as well meaning a lot less spells. Deliberately armoring your main combat mages is generally only a thing you want to do with the lightest encumbrance armor you can get, and only for specific circumstances (setting up an Earthquake trap you need to guarantee and want the mage to survive, or whatever). LukasR23 posted:
Does spellsinger actually reduce the base encumbrance value for casting a spell too? I know it halves spellcasting fatigue, but thought they still took full "you're taking an action" fatigue cost. Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 02:52 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 02:49
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Ramc posted:I would simply follow the example of the Empress-Queens of EA Cassia and create a superior body proof against mundane harm and thus have the invulnerable(10) flag. The metal slug protagonists sure did! But they didn't have to make it, they.. iunno. Weightlifted? Ate too many carrots? Lord Koth posted:Does spellsinger actually reduce the base encumbrance value for casting a spell too? I know it halves spellcasting fatigue, but thought they still took full "you're taking an action" fatigue cost. I'm not sure. Maybe? Either way it means they've got less fatigue burden, but I don't know the specifics of that question.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:53
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I like a bit of light or even medium armor on mages, tbh. It generally stacks well with protective spells, and can provide a "good enough" layer of protection from attritional fuckery even without them. Any round spent defending yourself from threats is a round not spent doing something useful. The real problem with armored mages is that people are inevitably going to try to thug with them, no matter how bad of an idea it might be.
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Aug 12, 2021 02:54
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what the hell are these guys doing casting these spells, is the somatic component for arrow fend like "breakdance for five minutes" or "do fifty pushups"?
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Aug 12, 2021 02:55
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well also armor doesn't help that much against the classic 'a bunch of birds get up in your grill' counter, since the mage will usually spend all their time punching feebly instead of doing a spell
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Aug 12, 2021 03:03
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Araganzar posted:what the hell are these guys doing casting these spells, is the somatic component for arrow fend like "breakdance for five minutes" or "do fifty pushups"? the truth is.... we just dont know
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Aug 12, 2021 03:07
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Well we do for Time Stop.
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Aug 12, 2021 09:04
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Training camp for mages is like an hour of morning calisthenics then eight hours of running in formation I DON'T KNOW BUT I'VE BEEN TOLD COLD 3 DOMINIONS ARE MIGHTY COLD
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Aug 12, 2021 10:48
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Lord Koth posted:To an extent yes, but the thing you're missing is encumbrance. Most actions a unit performs other than just moving generates fatigue, with said fatigue value being equal to that unit's encumbrance - so for example that super heavily armored S1H1 Runic Captain has an encumbrance of 6. Encumbrance itself is a value that's gotten from a combination of a unit's base encumbrance (which can vary depending on race) combined with their armor - so to continue the example, the Runic Captain has 2 base Encumbrance plus 4 from his armor and shield. For spellcasting, encumbrance from armor is DOUBLED, so that Runic Captain is gaining 10 fatigue every time he casts a spell, on top of whatever fatigue the spell itself generates to cast. Compare that to the Dwalve mages in cloth armor only generating 2 extra fatigue for each spell. Some units notably do not have a base fatigue rate (Generally constructs/undead) Casting still costs fatigue if they are a mage, but a golem is going to keep punching your dudes until it dies or they die, then horror mark your caster.
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Aug 12, 2021 11:35
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Lord Koth posted:
Spell casting inflicts fatigue equal to encumbrance + 2x Armour encumbrance, spellsinging halves fatigue. The way that iteracts, it should reduce all fatigue since it arrives in one chunk. Illwinter is illwinter though, so I wouldnt be blown away if it wasnt the case. LukasR23 posted:The metal slug protagonists sure did! But they didn't have to make it, they.. iunno. Weightlifted? Ate too many carrots? Protagonists get away with all sorts of BS I tell you. Incidentally I gave them airshield in the new version (a % chance to avoid damage from single target ranged attacks) to represent the superior dodging abilities of any arcade gamer.
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Aug 12, 2021 14:58
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Surely that should be an XP growth effect to simulate the learning process.
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Aug 12, 2021 15:17
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BaronOhShi posted:Spell casting inflicts fatigue equal to encumbrance + 2x Armour encumbrance, spellsinging halves fatigue. The way that iteracts, it should reduce all fatigue since it arrives in one chunk. Illwinter is illwinter though, so I wouldnt be blown away if it wasnt the case. Yeah, did a quick test and it does reduce the basic encumbrance fatigue from casting as well as the spell's fatigue cost. Tossed Blacksteel Full Plate and a Lead Shield on one caster and nothing on another, and had them both cast the same spell - encumbrance was 7 higher for the armored one, which is the non-doubled encumbrance of those pieces of equipment. So for the Dwalves it's still like 4 extra fatigue per spell for those armored casters, but that's at least tolerable. Caveat: Spellsinging does not apply to divine spells, and cheap S1H1 mages are otherwise incredibly good to build holy communions for Smite or Banishment spam. So in that specific case they'll fatigue out far faster than unarmored casters doing similar.
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Aug 12, 2021 23:34
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Turn 24 - “Either way he did not survive” This title brought to you by Nevermore, the Ruby Discord Bot.  New year, new turn! And I’ll just spoil something for you, I didn’t find anything with those site searches. Bah. We can see the price paid for Dedarag’s capital just below, and… yeah. Real glad I moved those pieces of gear off him.  He did not survive. This is a horror attack! They’re assassinations, but worse. I don’t know the precise maths for a horror attack, but it’s a % in the single digits, and then the game rolls for horror type based on marks and if you’re a god or on the hall of fame or whatever. In this case he’s not a god, and it rolled soultorn! And then rolled 2d6 to determine how many attacked him.  Individual soultorn are.. fairly nasty. That’s a lot of attack. And strength. And damage. A thug might chew through them, but a human stands no chance. At least they don’t fly.  He did not survive. Goodbye, World’s Expert on Getting Killed. You were our first scout, and will live on in my heart. Maybe. At least you got to die in a cool way! The other events are boring. Two medals from the arms dealer network is nice, though. I’m not going to cover arms dealer events after this turn, because they’re not really that important in the grand scheme of things any more.   I’ll take the air gems!  And this worked out. I’ll show it after the battle. Which is.. Heh.  This is why we don’t let the monkeys fight.  They barely deal any damage even when they do hit, and it took four hits to down one man. FOUR!  And then they break once the militia start hitting, because their base morale is literally six (after undisciplined).  And now that they’ve fled, they die. Alright then. This isn't really a loss, but it's a great way to illustrate why we don't use markata in a real fight.  Eri’s going to handle this properly (with real equipment, she’s getting a shotgun and a medal), while Headlamps burned out Sorry goes to the wetlands to pick up the main force from Full of Hot Chicks, Honest my Prophet. Who I may kill off soon, because I want a prophet closer to the front line. Maybe I should make this her last journey. I do love the silly names. But first - graphs!  Provinces is.. Yeah. He had better expansion, because I was limited. But good god that spikes fast. And even after I took over another nation entirely he’s still goddamn bigger. But that’s awake expanders for you.  That's a lot of forts. Ramc informed me that he’s been massing forts because it lets him abuse one of his favourite tricks with the nation. [02:03] Lukas: Do you seriously have five forts? [02:04] Ramc: i need forts [02:04] Lukas: oh good that wasn't bugged (heh) [02:04] Lukas: I know your pain, but it was still kind of surprising [02:10] Ramc: forts with temples in my candles let me freespawn  He’s allowed real scales. This makes sense. But still. Double my income is bad. I didn’t get Research/Gem/Dom income because my POWs lack magic skills. But..  Bees! My god.  This is why. Ramc gets fort spawn that are Spring Immortal Sacred Bee Future Lukas note: I got this mixed up. He can train Sacred Bee Swams at temples, but the beespawn are just dudes with magic spears. I’ve got a few other infiltrations going this turn - Lemnos and Oceania - so we’ll get more graphs then.  But I suspect Lemnos’s will be bad. Vespika/Purple took offence to him being on that fort.  07:17] nurpleDCLXVI: Without the mages spamming chaff and turning it ethereal, things turn out better. [12:15] Lukas: drat. Moment I moved my scout off. [12:16] nurpleDCLXVI: What's what j. gets for thinking me knocked out. The moment he bumped me off his cap, all of the surviving commanders scattered to gather reinforcements from my other forts. [15:52] j. (villain): how did you even get an army there [15:52] j. (villain): god drat it [15:53] j. (villain): i decide to spend one (1) turn researching rather than using my mage stack [15:53] j. (villain): freaking flying bullshit [15:55] j. (villain): well, i know what my real mistake was [15:55] j. (villain): it was: taking Misfortune [15:59] nurpleDCLXVI: That's what you get for underestimating my immense genius. [15:59] nurpleDCLXVI: Thank God, though, it's been so long since I got someone frustrated enough to curse at me. [15:59] nurpleDCLXVI: Really refreshing. [15:59] nurpleDCLXVI: In any case, I will accept your surrender and/or payment of war indemnities now, in exchange for sparing you. [16:00] j. (villain): what if instead i paid in spite and blood [16:00] j. (villain): dragging this out into a twenty turn hellwar [16:01] j. (villain): and forcing you to waste precious time stamping me out while someone else wins [16:01] j. (villain): that sounds more like my style [16:02] nurpleDCLXVI: Hey! That's MY style, too. [16:02] nurpleDCLXVI: Perhaps we could put our differences aside and victimize someone else. [16:02] nurpleDCLXVI: Have you considered that. [16:03] j. (villain): why would i want to victimise anyone else [16:03] j. (villain): i hold no spite for anyone [16:03] j. (villain): except dedarag who also killed at least 1 cat but they're already getting stomped by metal slug [16:03] j. (villain): and the wasps [16:04] j. (villain): whose crimes of cat slaying are at this point unforgivable In two turns I’ll also have Swarmhive’s graphs, but I know nothing of them except “In a war with Jedi”.  Darkwoods is getting a fort upgrade, and.. That’s a lot of Oceanian Sacreds. If he attacks me I can redirect my defenders to fight it, but I am fairly sure they’re there to kill Ryugo-Jo. That’s still 200 goddamn units on my border though. Scary stuff.  If all goes well, Dedarag will die next turn. This is a lot of PD, but I’ve got all my remaining (metal) heroes and seven metal slugs going there. They should die. Key word should, of course. Next time: Does Dedarag die? Bonus: [02:05] Ramc: gents...  Looks like things have all worked out.
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Aug 13, 2021 18:45
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Now the shoe is on the other claw, in the Vespika/Lemnos war. The combined force of Lemnos' mages and troops are scary, but this, if I remember right, annihilated the bulk of the Lemnian troops, and the mages by themselves are notably less terrifying when they don't have an army of cats to buff.
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Aug 13, 2021 18:56
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it beginsss 
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Aug 13, 2021 18:57
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Why are they called Metal Slugs anyway?
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Aug 13, 2021 20:29
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I am glad there is a bee with a box of grenades
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Aug 13, 2021 20:44
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Night10194 posted:I am glad there is a bee with a box of grenades put it on an infiltrating stealth priest, too... *knocks* Grenadegram for Mongo! I'm totally not a bee! 
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Aug 13, 2021 21:58
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Araganzar posted:put it on an infiltrating stealth priest, too... a seducing stealth priest
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Aug 13, 2021 22:00
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gonadic io posted:a seducing stealth priest i'm not animating that!
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Aug 13, 2021 22:03
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Araganzar posted:i'm not animating that!  this is the closest I could find
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Aug 13, 2021 22:06
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Donkringel posted:Why are they called Metal Slugs anyway? Bullets are sometimes called slugs, I guess. Night10194 posted:I am glad there is a bee with a box of grenades 
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Aug 13, 2021 23:04
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Hope you manage to put together a coalition to deal with those bees. Don't see things turning out in any way other than annihilation otherwise.
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Aug 14, 2021 04:40
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CptWedgie posted:Hope you manage to put together a coalition to deal with those bees. Don't see things turning out in any way other than annihilation otherwise. That's what PAPI said!
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Aug 14, 2021 09:29
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gonadic io posted:a seducing stealth priest CptWedgie posted:Hope you manage to put together a coalition to deal with those bees. Don't see things turning out in any way other than annihilation otherwise. you're on a mission and you're wishin' someone will manage to form a coalition lookin for bees in all the wrong places, no buzz buzz just jarhead faces first inclination outside your nation is to get homesick and leave the situation but HQ got your back and they makin' trades, so don't blow yourself like a box of grenades unrest is growin' so you're showin', couldn't care less what markatas got goin' province gets dark and you start to patrol, then you spot a fine priesty sittin' in some grove  she's dressed in yellow she says "hello" "come zzzit nexzzt to bee ya fine fella" you run over there with no resistance to use and what comes next hey buzzed a move
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Aug 14, 2021 09:33
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Ramc posted:Bullets are sometimes called slugs, I guess. Nah I like thinking of this as the bug game name. Slug nation, BEES nations, ant nations, wasp nations, dirt bug nation, water bug nation, and bugged Jedi nation.
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Aug 14, 2021 18:47
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CptWedgie posted:Hope you manage to put together a coalition to deal with those bees. Don't see things turning out in any way other than annihilation otherwise. n-now lets see how those other graph pulls look before doing anything rash
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Aug 15, 2021 01:32
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Turn 25 - At the end he did not rule a single province and has nowhere to return. Well, that’s good! About half of these events speak for themselves, and they paint a very nice picture.  Dedarag has been wiped out! Goodbye, Cobald. May your dwarves have better luck in a future game - because they didn’t really have much this time around. Honestly if he’d attacked me more aggressively this would have lasted a lot longer. Oh, and using crossbows instead of high shield sacreds.  Wastelands have an above-average chance of having magic sites, so I figured it was worth a spell.  I’ll take it! That puts my pearl income up to 5 a month, which means in 10 turns I can empower in astral! Which I won’t be doing, at least for now. I might alchemise them into other gems, but otherwise I’m going to be doing a decent amount of arcane probing. If I hit a jackpot I'll empower, for now they're useful as a backup gem supply or for trading.  Jackpot!  I’m getting a lot of gems from the throne at this point. And upping my air gem income to 4 is fantastic and absolutely worth that mage turn spent on searching. ...wait. Up to 4? More on that after combat. I did two infiltrations last turn - Oceania, and Lemnos.   One was good, the other was a miserable failure. So he’ll be trying again. JonJoe probably noticed this, but hopefully he won’t take it personally.  The battle in the wetlands goes…  The same way  Every battle against this gunline  Tends to go. Complete with friendly fire!  This is also pretty boring. But that one metal slug has me.. Suspicious.. Did I mis-script?  This is obligatory. Look at all those dwarves that could have been raiding me!  But the wolf tribe get close, and…  Splat. There goes 100 gold. Whoever did that deserves a promotion.  But instead, he gets atomised.  “Armor defeating hit” in this case means it ignores 20% of the slug’s protection - because apparently piercing weapons do that. TIL. Going to go back and add that in, because I’d assumed armor piercing weapons just ignored 50% of enemy protection and that was that. Anyway, that was it for interesting events. Except for another water elemental dying to friendly fire, but in this army if you’re in melee your life expectancy is in seconds.  We had a water elemental and it flattened them. Goodbye, Dedarag!  My god, I’ve gotten a lot of nature gems. It’s kind of funny. The other three events are all arms dealers - Shotgun, Medal, Carrot. There’s technically one last battle to cover in the new republic. Scouts can be caught by patrolling forces, so I probably just ran into a stack of troopers or something he was using to catch an attacking force off guard. Surely it’s nothing huge-  Jesus christ. That’s his god! And literally fifty jedi, before we account for province defence.  Pfff. He also had the bug with unit naming, but seems to have made up for it. As their god is on the field, every single sacred unit starts auto-blessed. This is important to note, as otherwise they’d probably all be casting bless. Speaking of blesses…  Every single Jedi is sacred. They’ve got a really boring bless, but it’s a good one.  It’ll keep my first hit from landing, which is pretty useful against anything from magic to a more conventional gunline. Which stacks with all the other jedi tricks to avoid dying.  All Jedi get one free shot of mirror image, which negates a single hit and enables them to hide on the world map. While their base protection is.. Laughable, they share Invulnerability with my main hero units and have a base natural protection of 10.  Which adds up decently enough. Oh, and those lightsabers are armour piercing. Don’t want them getting near a metal slug, or… anything, really. I won’t be breaking down the entire republic, but I felt like showing off the main attractions and their god.  Hello, PACHINKO SPIRITS! My, you have a lot of abilities. In order: Fire Resistance (57), Poison Resistance(5), Magic Being, Need Not Eat, Heat (9), Ethereal, Pretender God, Wasteland Survival(?), Twist Fate, Blind, Spirit Sight, Inspirational 1, Innate Spellcaster, Sight Vengeance. In order, the important ones:  Heat(9) means he passively fatigues out anyone near him without fire resistance. It’s not going to matter here, but it does if you’re trying to stab it. Ethereal is a flat 75% miss chance with non-magic weapons. Fun stuff. Spirit Sight means blind doesn’t matter except for magic eye equipping. It can see anything, even ghosts. Sight VENGEANCE makes you go blind if you hit him. Or try to, I think. It's weird. And innate spellcaster...I’ll just let the game explain.  He is always casting, all the time. Scary stuff. It's got some weird minor interactions (like ignoring "AI don't cast this" rules in the code) but mostly it just means LOTS OF SPELLS. And yet, neither of these is the scariest thing in this army.  Neither are the floating lightsabres, although they’re both adorable and hilarious. (And apparently fairly deadly according to the bug nations.)  It’s these guys. Although.. The more I look at them, the more I realise just how scary my own defence force soldiers are. That grenade is AoE1 and thus pretty scary, but from a shooting perspective?  My stuff is better. Except for the melee part.  For comparison. They do have a range advantage, though - I’d need forward placement or to use skirmish or something if I wanted to win a shootout, and that’s a risk. But mine are freespawn, and his aren’t. So I have the advantage there once I hit a critical miss. Speaking of freespawn, I’ve now got another ~100 in The Wetlands I can send back to Dedarag.  And Full of Hot Chicks, Honest has been condemned to death. I don’t know who or what I’m going to prophet afterwards, but right now I need someone closer to the front line and some dominion up here would be nice.  It’s a shame, because she’s the only person on the hall of fame I own. It’s funny how many mercenaries are here though.  I’m also moving up another 25 Soldiers+3 metal slugs with Fio and Tarma, ready to invade either Lemnos or Vespika. I’m.. not sure which, and I might hold off for a turn or two to see what happens. Maybe I can bully Oceania or Lemnos into giving up some provinces to open up a new front. Recruitment is simple - a lot of scouts, an FCV in my capital, and I’m going to start alternating commandos and FCVs up in Dedarag while I plan out who or what to invade. Oh, and I’m resummoning Ami. She did good work last time!  I’ll need to figure out the lay of the land up here soon. It’s.. weird. Next time: Infiltrating Swarmhive! And Oceania! And plotting out the violence to come.
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Aug 16, 2021 18:39
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Why on earth was their god patrolling and not researching. Was there some huge threatening stack next door or something? There is NO way that a slightly better shot at killing a spy is worth 30+ research points. Maybe a monster boar on their cap???
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Aug 16, 2021 19:31
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gonadic io posted:Why on earth was their god patrolling and not researching. Was there some huge threatening stack next door or something? There is NO way that a slightly better shot at killing a spy is worth 30+ research points. Maybe a monster boar on their cap??? If I am remembering right both Swarmhive and myself, EA Cassia, had huge threatening stacks next door.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:21
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I didn't know immobiles even COULD patrol.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:29
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PurpleXVI posted:I didn't know immobiles even COULD patrol. They can patrol but not break siege IIRC.
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Aug 16, 2021 21:00
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