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BrigadierSensible posted:A question about the juxtaposition of Dictator Dan and Plague Spreader Gladys. From what little I saw, Dan seemed genuinely willing to answer questions and explain his actions, admit some regrets and try to build up a sense of community and empathy. Gladys is taking the Scromo approach of denying they’ve done anything wrong, getting annoyed at journos, and blaming the population for the shitshow of her government’s own creation.
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Aug 14, 2021 03:13
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There was probably a bit less general covid fatigue last year for Melbourne's big lockdown Dan seems a bit less scripted in his media briefings Aside from the mess at the start, the whole city was in the same situation, which maybe created a feeling of solidarity?
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Aug 14, 2021 03:24
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Animal Friend posted:466 gj NSW https://twitter.com/NSWHealth/status/1426348802110152711  https://i.imgur.com/jOXUhag.mp4
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Aug 14, 2021 03:25
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BrigadierSensible posted:A question about the juxtaposition of Dictator Dan and Plague Spreader Gladys. Attitude matters a lot. Andrews seemed like he was committed to doing what was best for Victoria, even if it led to unpopularity that cost him his leadership. Gladys gives off that Scomo vibe of being mostly concerned with ensuring she doesn't take any blame for the situation.
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Aug 14, 2021 03:32
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^^^ yeah, dittoBrigadierSensible posted:So apart from the one glaring difference between the two, (Dan did a hard harsh lockdown that eventually brought the cases/deaths down vs Gladys's half arsed piecemeal soft lockdowns where the number seems to be growing and spreading geographically), what else could be the difference between perceptions of popularity? A huge part is - as shocking as it seems for anyone here to say it - their integrity. Dandrews hosed up the start of things, but so did everyone. He then worked tirelessly to fix that and keep people safe. That was the one thing everyone (with the exception of those poisoned by the Murdoch press) took from his pressers. That Dan and his team really were trying to do everything they could to solve the problem. Watching Gladys and Scotty, all I see are your bog standard lovely politicians smarming their way through poo poo they don't care about in the slightest.
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Aug 14, 2021 03:38
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NTRabbit posted:No EBA, just an award. I work in an admin office, not a call centre, but because part of the job is taking calls the micromanager has decided we are a call centre, and treats us like dispensable entry level call centre workers. She is an infuriating waste of oxygen, and it's really ramped up since our director was marooned in Canberra by border closures a month and a half ago. Good news from Fair Work for you: quote:The Fair Work Ombudsman has responded to ten common myths which persist in a variety of sectors, including early childhood education and care (ECEC), often representing pitfalls for younger or less experienced workers. I also found a site from a law firm in South Australia who went to court for a guy who worked at a petrol station and was required to turn up 15 minutes early. quote:At first instance, the South Australian Employment Court (SAEC) found that Shahin had underpaid Mr Mathew in contravention of the relevant collective agreement and the Fair Work Act 2009 (Cth) by not appropriately accounting for his time worked. So there are even test cases for this poo poo. Best of luck with it, but remember that even through you are well within your rights under the law, this whole process will suck and you might still need to start looking for another job if they don't remove your toxic manager. And document everything!
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Aug 14, 2021 03:38
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Lol NSW is never getting back down to zero
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Aug 14, 2021 03:41
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BrigadierSensible posted:A question about the juxtaposition of Dictator Dan and Plague Spreader Gladys. So my perception is that Dan honestly engaged with the questions being asked. If they were poo poo he would call them out for being so, but if they had a germ of actual merit to them he would address that part as well. He also to my memory never left a press conference until there were no more questions being asked.
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Aug 14, 2021 03:45
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BrigadierSensible posted:
The blaming the dead for not being vaccinated is probably not winning Gladys fans as well
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Aug 14, 2021 03:46
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very glad i quit my """essential""" job with cases going like this
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Aug 14, 2021 03:54
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You gotta remember as well when Melbourne was out of control it was the first major outbreak and nobody knew what to do, so besides the idiot right wing crew crowing about the economy it was obvious that a few mistakes were expected Gladys (and scomo) have both not only made the same mistakes all over again, they did so while smiling and going on about what a great job they've been doing. Now that everything is hosed, that's all anyone remembers. There's no way to flip this around short of immediate, extremely hard lockdown and associated messaging as well as basically an admission of culpability These people are outlandishly incompetent and no amount of Murdoch turd polishing will save them at this point, the question is whether this will all clear up by the next election so moron boomers can justify voting with their wallets again
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Aug 14, 2021 03:55
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Fwiw as well 2/3 lib voters I know have flipped to Labor with the last one being a literal 1%er
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Aug 14, 2021 03:56
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the gladys hate is also the result of hubris. she hung poo poo on every other state for their lockdowns, got held up as the saviour of australia, never acknowledged how insanely lucky they were over the ruby princess debacle and instead attributed it to good management. the phrase "gold standard" is bitterly thrown around now as a brutal joke, but they and the feds were sincerely huffing their own farts when they touted it
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Aug 14, 2021 04:01
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a sequel 46 years in the making: Dismissal 2: Dismissal Harder
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Aug 14, 2021 04:15
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Can I ask people to stop making blithe statements like 'in the beginning no one knew what to do' and 'at the start of this everyone got it wrong'. It might sound like a joke, but McGowan's government legitimately did follow advice on the correct response. All the other states and countries (bar a few) listened to the idiot business lobbies that they didn't want to close their doors even a little bit and suffered for it. WA had a pandemic response plan that was written with a corona virus in mind, listened to the health advice and followed through. Whilst we may have been lucky in some aspects, we have made the best moves to shut down hard and fast, and institute solid border controls. The only real gently caress ups have been dealing with hotel quarantine, but short of never letting anyone in ever, there wasn't much we could do there in the short time frame given. And in response to realising hotel quarantine was hosed, WA cut back their intake so they could spread people out within those spaces and reduce cross contamination. WA is building specialist quarantine spaces now and has a solid policy of lock everything down in the event of a breach. Dan learned from his mistakes. Gladys didn't and I think that's the big difference in their popularity. We want strong leaders, but we also want leaders who don't keep loving up. McGowan has a cult of personality now because he did the difficult thing, but the right thing. He put people first.
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Aug 14, 2021 04:50
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abigserve posted:Lol NSW is never getting back down to zero I mean, it probably will after everyone gets covid
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Aug 14, 2021 05:24
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https://twitter.com/abcnews/status/1426404012908171267
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Aug 14, 2021 06:15
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The next NSW election can't happen soon enough.
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Aug 14, 2021 06:20
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Budzilla posted:The next NSW election can't happen soon enough. 2023 iirc lol none of this is gonna matter
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Aug 14, 2021 06:27
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SMILLENNIALSMILLEN posted:2023 iirc lol none of this is gonna matter Because everyone will of forgotten by than, or because NSW will be a lawless mad max'esq wasteland by then? Either way we should totally drag Sydney out into the ocean and sell it to the highest bidder. This isn't a covid related thing, just something that in general I think would improve Australia. Source: have been to Sydney.
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Aug 14, 2021 06:32
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When everyone in Sydney is dead at least the traffic won't be so bad.
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Aug 14, 2021 06:36
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:When everyone in Sydney is dead at least the traffic won't be so bad. The money will have been doubly wasted on the new airport though
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Aug 14, 2021 06:41
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BrigadierSensible posted:A question about the juxtaposition of Dictator Dan and Plague Spreader Gladys. Wait til the end of the lockdown, or at least numbers start going down. While numbers go up no one will forgive or forget. Vic was pretty pissed while post code lockdowns, tower blocks weren't doing anything.
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Aug 14, 2021 06:44
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Oh NOW theres a proper lockdown announced. 7 weeks too bloody late
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Aug 14, 2021 07:20
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Can I still travel to my beach house?
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Aug 14, 2021 07:22
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I would blow Dane Cook posted:Can I still travel to my beach house? How much money do you make and are you either a police officer, mp, or property developer?
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Aug 14, 2021 07:33
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Remember if you want to go to the snow, you must stop off at your South Coast pad first.
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Aug 14, 2021 08:19
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Megillah Gorilla posted:^^^ yeah, ditto I think it's predominantly this but also about appearances - to my memory Dan has never openly accepted responsibility for loving up hotel quarantine. But he did give out the impression that, however we'd landed in a bad situation, there was only one way out of it and he was determined to do it no matter how unpopular or difficult it would be in some quarters. Gladys on the other hand has tried this softly-gently approach the whole time, consistently closing the barn door after the horse has bolted. She has also never given the slightest suggestion her approach was a mistake, even though it's plain for all to see. Even now as people call for harder measures she still says poo poo like "well we don't want to be any more difficult on the people than we need to be" and then two days later implements them anyway. That doesn't smack so much of genuine concern for the people's wellbeing as it does of genuine concern for her own popularity. In other words, like you said, I guess it felt like Dan actually cared and it feels like Gladys doesn't, but I have no idea how fair or true that really is. Also I don't actually get the impression she's taken a popularity hit within NSW itself? But I mostly see Sydney through the lens of Twitter where I follow a lot of policy-minded white collar types, half of whom all seem to have Stockholm syndrome after the Gold Standard era.
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Aug 14, 2021 08:21
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Konomex posted:Can I ask people to stop making blithe statements like 'in the beginning no one knew what to do' and 'at the start of this everyone got it wrong'. It might sound like a joke, but McGowan's government legitimately did follow advice on the correct response. All the other states and countries (bar a few) listened to the idiot business lobbies that they didn't want to close their doors even a little bit and suffered for it. WA had a pandemic response plan that was written with a corona virus in mind, listened to the health advice and followed through. Where is this from? WA has done well but I'm pretty sure like all jurisdictions it made its policy on the fly (in the feds' case they actually went against the pandemic response plan, which didn't advise border closures and traveller quarantine).
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Aug 14, 2021 08:24
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BrigadierSensible posted:A question about the juxtaposition of Dictator Dan and Plague Spreader Gladys. Andrews fronted the media every day for 120 days or whatever it was. Regardless of whether that had a material impact on the outcome it showed people that he wasn't slacking off or hiding from the cameras. He also stayed until all the questions had been answered, even if they were just the same News Corp gotcha trash they threw at him day after day. By comparison Gladys seems to delegate to others, there was one day where the state had recorded the highest number of cases to date and Hazzard took the press conference. It sounds like the media only get one question which gives the appearance of a lack of accountability too. When you listened to Andrews and Sutton there was always a sense that there was a goal, they presented a vision of what things could be like if we beat the virus. They spoke with a great deal of empathy too, for the people who had died that day, for the people forced to isolate, the people in hospital, the health workers putting in long hours etc. You couldn't watch a few press conferences and conclude that they didn't care. When you listen to the NSW pressers now, it's all about 'those people', it feels very transactional and the thanks and condolences sound forced. It was only in the last few days that Gladys (or Hazzard, if he was the senior minister present) personally read out the number of deceased, before that it was delegated to the CHO. I don't think they have enunciated much of a vision either, certainly not in a way that might motivate people to stay the course. I also think the context of the outbreak matters a lot. When Victoria went through it last year it was with an underfunded, overly bureaucratic and poorly structured health department dealing with something they had no experience dealing with. I think a lot of people gave the government some slack because they were learning on the job. NSW by comparison had 12 months to prepare for this, to study the responses of other states and to learn from what was happening overseas - none of which appears to have happened. They entered the pandemic with arguably the country's best prepared public health infrastructure but it doesn't seem to have grown it's capabilities or adapted since then. That is a massive fuckup and I think people are quite rightly pretty annoyed at the NSW government for that. Edit: the other thing that makes a huge difference is that what Andrews was doing worked. They announced some changes to the restrictions and said that in a week or so the changes should be obvious in the case numbers and it happened. Most people didn’t enjoy the lockdown but at least they could see it was working. It’s hard to be liked if you’re asking people to make massive sacrifices for no obvious benefit which is the situation in NSW right now. gay picnic defence fucked around with this message at 13:54 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 13:42
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freebooter posted:Where is this from? WA has done well but I'm pretty sure like all jurisdictions it made its policy on the fly (in the feds' case they actually went against the pandemic response plan, which didn't advise border closures and traveller quarantine). I might have misremembered it being based on a corona virus, but it had been updated for a new flu strain and then for the SARS/H1N1 virus in 2014. I heard it from some guy, but I did go and look at the plan before it was revised in March 2020. It's pretty much the same basic advice - border lockdowns, social distancing, closing everything but essential services - what constitutes an essential service. The Federal Government had a plan, all the other states had a plan. The issue became when the health experts, the epidemiologists came to them and told them what had to be done they ignored it to listen to other advice. WA took the Star Trek approach to poo poo, health comes first. Even the Doctor can override the Captain of the ship in a medical emergency.
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Aug 14, 2021 14:19
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gay picnic defence posted:When you listened to Andrews and Sutton there was always a sense that there was a goal, they presented a vision of what things could be like if we beat the virus. TBF the national situation was very different then - literally every state except NSW had completely eliminated the virus and NSW had driven it down to a manageable low burn that kept them out of lockdown. Our social media feeds were full of non-Victorians enjoying 2019-era life. So we knew it was eminently achievable and were willing to work towards that. Whereas 2021 has been a very different beast with constant hotel leaks and on/off lockdown, which muddies the waters, and like you said, none of what NSW has done is working so it's very easy for the mood to sour. The hardest and darkest part of the Victorian lockdown, in my memory, was September/October. The case numbers had been going down the whole time and we were all feeling optimistic about hitting elimination, but then they plateaued around 20/30 a day in that stubborn tail. I'm only going by social media (what else could I be going by) but there was a definite darkening to the mood then, with a split between people who thought we should stick it out and people who thought this was as good as it was going to get and we should give up and open up. And having a vulnerable partner and a vested interest in hitting zero (because we would have to continue isolating anyway if Melbourne didn't hit zero) I felt quite bitter that the patience and goodwill of my fellow citizens had an expiry date on it, and as it turned out, not even a very long one. Konomex posted:The Federal Government had a plan, all the other states had a plan. The issue became when the health experts, the epidemiologists came to them and told them what had to be done they ignored it to listen to other advice. WA took the Star Trek approach to poo poo, health comes first. Even the Doctor can override the Captain of the ship in a medical emergency. Not sure when you think any state or territory leader ignored the medical advice prior to (probably) Berejiklian in June 2021? WA is undoubtedly one of the world's most successful jurisdictions - with a good deal of luck beyond the border closure, given their dubious internal controls, testing numbers and general attitudes - but I don't think they've done anything that's not comparable to other Australian states and territories, particularly SA, the NT and Tasmania.
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Aug 14, 2021 14:38
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Case in loving point yesterday, Gladys didn’t mention anything about a statewide lockdown at the 11am presser - Barilaro let regional MPs know who then fed it out via Twitter. Many people in Regional NSW found out at 3:30 - 4:00pm that they were going in to lockdown at 5pm. It had been expected for some time but the way it was handled was unnecessarily bad.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:35
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Have they said where Chant has been? You'd think with the significance of these last few announcements she'd be front and center.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:40
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Am I chicken littlin' or is melbourne about to get owned? Mystery cases aren't going down, number of people infectious in community holding steady, new covid wastewater detections across the city in various diverse suburbs. Seems seeded pretty well and we're waiting for it kick off.
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Aug 15, 2021 01:10
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gay picnic defence posted:Have they said where Chant has been? You'd think with the significance of these last few announcements she'd be front and center. I assume after they started asking her tough questions she was quietly taken behind the barn and shot
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Aug 15, 2021 01:11
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Eediot Jedi posted:Am I chicken littlin' or is melbourne about to get owned? Mystery cases aren't going down, number of people infectious in community holding steady, new covid wastewater detections across the city in various diverse suburbs. Seems seeded pretty well and we're waiting for it kick off. We're in lockdown and can't go outside without a mask. If it's going to kick off what could we do at this point? You could run around saying the sky is falling and the goose would agree with you
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Aug 15, 2021 01:24
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Eediot Jedi posted:Am I chicken littlin' or is melbourne about to get owned? Mystery cases aren't going down, number of people infectious in community holding steady, new covid wastewater detections across the city in various diverse suburbs. Seems seeded pretty well and we're waiting for it kick off. It won't take off but it's going to be a pain to bring under control. It was going to be bad the second that school had an outbreak of delta. People come from all over the city to send their kids there, that community is overwhelmingly employed in precarious casual work (that also happens to be essential) and they're larger than average households.
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Aug 15, 2021 01:28
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It's fair to say Melbourne won't see another donut day. You can do everything right regarding public health measures and it can still get away if it is in a vulnerable population. No one wants to say the phrase 'flatten the curve' but that's what the reality is now.
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Aug 15, 2021 01:49
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Melbourne's probably hosed. Time to ride it out until January when we open er up.
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Aug 15, 2021 01:54
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