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Jack Trades posted:Here's a question. Is there a 4X out there with an AI that can pose a challenge without cheating? https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2891609&pagenumber=1
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Aug 10, 2021 13:55
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Darkrenown posted:I was constantly frustrated because I was never sure how much the armour placement mattered. Was it enough to just be on the outer layer? What about oddly shaped hulls? Do I only need to armour the bits likely to be hit or so I need to layer on in the inner curse of this S shaped bit? Or is it just I need X armour plates on a given section of a ship and it's assumed to be spread around enough? IIRC in Star Ruler any hit is a straight line from the center mass of the firing ship to the center mass of the target, potentially damaging whatever components lie along that angle. If you've got a humongous armor plate at that exact angle it tanks the damage, if it's ten degrees to the left you're outa luck, you don't gotta worry about like near-misses shearing off a gun from a weird angle. A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Aug 10, 2021 |
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Aug 10, 2021 13:57
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I think Shadow Empire only cheats in that AI major factions can build roads for free since the logistics system is hard for humans to understand, much less a robot I adore Shadow Empire's logistics system, its harsh but once you get everything flowing it makes you feel like a god
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Aug 10, 2021 14:02
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SE4 is really the gold standard for ship designing. Outside of a few limitation, such as a maximum number of engines based on hull size, requiring life support and crew quarters (unless you just slap a master computer on it), it's a true sandbox where you can design a ship or base to fill any role you can dream up, including useful non-combat roles that you wouldn't typically see in other space 4x games. Though admittedly in the vanilla tech tree/balance you eventually reach a point where every ship is a self sustaining supermassive death star that can counter any threat and eat planets for breakfast, and you'll have dozens if not hundreds of them. The mid game is the sweet spot where you'll want to deploy a variety of designs to be effective.
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Aug 10, 2021 14:40
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Jack Trades posted:Here's a question. Is there a 4X out there with an AI that can pose a challenge without cheating? I suspect the answer is "every 4x until you've learned the mechanics"
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Aug 10, 2021 14:41
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Jack Trades posted:Here's a question. Is there a 4X out there with an AI that can pose a challenge without cheating? AI Wars/AI Wars 2 doesn't cheat and will kick your rear end eventually. Note that the game is not like a typical 4x with even sides, the AI start is very different from the player start. I enjoyed AI Wars and now enjoy AI Wars 2.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:02
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Mayveena posted:AI Wars/AI Wars 2 doesn't cheat and will kick your rear end eventually. Note that the game is not like a typical 4x with even sides, the AI start is very different from the player start. I enjoyed AI Wars and now enjoy AI Wars 2. I don't think that's a real answer, AI War ai isn't even playing the same game, it's just directing increasing magically generated waves at hot points. It's more an ai dungeon master than an enemy player.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:09
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Mayveena posted:AI Wars/AI Wars 2 doesn't cheat and will kick your rear end eventually. Note that the game is not like a typical 4x with even sides, the AI start is very different from the player start. I enjoyed AI Wars and now enjoy AI Wars 2. AI War 2 is very good but also not really a 4X. Also, interesting enough, since the last big rework the game has gotten very easy.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:14
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Jack Trades posted:Here's a question. Is there a 4X out there with an AI that can pose a challenge without cheating? Go is sort of like a 4X.
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Aug 10, 2021 19:28
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Jack Trades posted:AI War 2 is very good but also not really a 4X. How so?
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Aug 10, 2021 20:21
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Less Fat Luke posted:How so? I haven't played much AI War 2 until after the big updates so I can't explain the specifics but winning on a Difficulty 8 requires no strategy whatsoever now, difficulty 9 is basically the normal mode and 10 isn't unbeatable as it was intended to be. The developers are aware of that so they're currently working on additional gamemodes that are supposed to make the game more difficult.
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Aug 10, 2021 20:39
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PerniciousKnid posted:MOO1 and Space Empires were the only games I played where it felt like the ship design actually mattered. Sword of the Stars is another to add to that list. It also had a great research system. Honestly, IMO Sword of the Stars is the best space 4X game in existence. Too bad the sequel is even worse than MOO3.
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Aug 11, 2021 02:59
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Losing a game? Just rush AI research if you were lucky enough to get it, and then jack extra spending as high as it can go! You might get to make everyone else lose too. 
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Aug 11, 2021 03:28
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It's one of the very few 4xes I've seen where weaker players can consistently stay relevant or recapture the lead right up towards the end with clever enough exploitation of their faction's bullshit gimmicks (or by getting lucky with where their AI rebellion pops up), rather than the top couple players pulling ahead early and spending the next eight hours slowly but inevitably crushing everyone A Wizard of Goatse fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Aug 11, 2021 |
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Aug 11, 2021 04:11
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Zurai posted:Sword of the Stars is another to add to that list. It also had a great research system. Honestly, IMO Sword of the Stars is the best space 4X game in existence. Too bad the sequel is even worse than MOO3. the RNG refusing to give you point defense was a game restarted but other than that yeah, the first SotS was drat near perfect for what it was and the budget it had. I remember losing half a planet's population because i invested too much into learning latin.
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Aug 11, 2021 15:02
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Kibbles n Shits posted:SE4 is really the gold standard for ship designing. Outside of a few limitation, such as a maximum number of engines based on hull size, requiring life support and crew quarters (unless you just slap a master computer on it), it's a true sandbox where you can design a ship or base to fill any role you can dream up, including useful non-combat roles that you wouldn't typically see in other space 4x games. Right there were some really cool ideas there and the supplies system or even the ordnance system from V could make some interesting trade offs with ship design. That said it still suffered from the same thing alot of others games did because research and unique techs were king.
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Aug 11, 2021 15:42
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That said I think it's my preference that 4x games throw out ship design all together since I don't think it's really that workable.
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Aug 11, 2021 15:45
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Endless Space/Legend is about as complex as I am wiling to go, unit design-wise. I noped out of Star Ruler 2 immediately.
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Aug 11, 2021 15:56
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I'm generally not a fan of space combat in general which is why I liked Endless Space 2, the combat in that game was fairly hands-off but it still had interesting depth. Speaking of which, I always thought that the biggest strength of the Endless series was how they manage to allow for such vastly different playstyles with their very unique races. Anyone been following Humankind? Do they use that strength of theirs in their newest game? I don't see how they could frankly.
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Aug 11, 2021 16:08
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I feel like Endless Space would almost be more fun without any enemy AI. I really loved just exploring and building stuff but the second other empires got involved it fell right apart
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Aug 11, 2021 16:18
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Sword of the Stars had the best AI counterplay I've ever seen. I was cruising to an endgame victory and crushing my opponents with a particular type of weapon, when next opponent shows up to a fight with big absorbers that turned my weapons into energy for their weapons. I still won, barely, because my doomfleet was three times theirs, but it was a welcome wake-up call in the otherwise boring endgame.
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Aug 11, 2021 18:23
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I always think of those drat Von Neumann assholes in Sots and I loved it, never been that surprised by a game before then. Me and a friend used to do multilayer over the weekends years ago and it was such a great game.
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Aug 13, 2021 01:46
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Flipswitch posted:I always think of those drat Von Neumann assholes in Sots and I loved it, never been that surprised by a game before then. Me and a friend used to do multilayer over the weekends years ago and it was such a great game. The SotS grand menaces are hands down my absolute favorite "shake up the game" disasters I've ever seen in a 4X. You had: -Infinitely replicating "locusts" that would strip planets bare and use their resources to replicate, creating a catastrophic death spiral if not nipped in the bud -A roving supership called the Puppet Master that had a literal mind control beam to steal ships and add to its armada, and if you didn't stop it it could convert planets into AI rebellions -Another roving supership called the System Killer that would basically draw a line from one of the galaxy to the other and visit every planet along that line - if it isn't defeated before reaching a planet, it annihilates the planet and any ships there and fully heals before moving on -The Peacekeeper, who is a big loving 1950s looking UFO supership who can appear in your game on the strategic map and will blare out a warning about how his programming dictates that all species live in peace. While he's present, if any battles occur over a certain size, he'll intervene personally and show up and start loving up the attacker. The funny thing is that once the attacker gets smoked, he'll decide if the defending fleet is too strong and gently caress them up too if so. He'll keep doing this until he gets bored and leaves the galaxy or someone kills him. I'll always remember the first time this happened to me while I was attacking an enemy planet and this fucker warps in and I hear "YOU HAVE VIOLATED PACT ORTHONIAN, TRIACTOR. PREPARE FOR ADJUDICATION" shortly before he levels me. Plus all the other unknown menaces like the Von Neumanns and their whole ecology, AI rebellions, and so on. God drat, SotS was an amazingly great game and possibly the only space 4x that managed to stay interesting almost to the very end of a given game.
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Aug 13, 2021 02:04
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Danaru posted:I think Shadow Empire only cheats in that AI major factions can build roads for free since the logistics system is hard for humans to understand, much less a robot There's other stuff but aside from free roads it's mainly just less important things like elections that get simplified. There's a section in the back of the manual that lists everything in a table.
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Aug 13, 2021 09:08
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Kanos posted:The SotS grand menaces are hands down my absolute favorite "shake up the game" disasters I've ever seen in a 4X. You had: the first time i found out about the peacekeeper was in a MP game and we were all shocked, doubly so when someone called the cop's bluff and got his entire fleed smashed.
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Aug 13, 2021 15:55
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Mans posted:the first time i found out about the peacekeeper was in a MP game and we were all shocked, doubly so when someone called the cop's bluff and got his entire fleed smashed. The real pro strat is to see 20 or so locusts heading towards your planets, but get the win screen next turn on account of them wiping out every other race.
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Aug 13, 2021 16:32
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Mans posted:the first time i found out about the peacekeeper was in a MP game and we were all shocked, doubly so when someone called the cop's bluff and got his entire fleed smashed. Lmao this is exactly how I met my first peacekeeper. I was the one that called the bluff 
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Aug 13, 2021 18:42
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Man I would love that game with Amplitude level visual design. Fuuck.
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Aug 14, 2021 01:17
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Conquest of Elysium 5 is coming out in a few days. They're adding 4 new planes of reality (cloud/sky realm, Atzlan, Primal, Celestial) boats and boat battles and a bunch of new battle maps including towns, forests etc and destructible fortifications. Also three new factions. Kobold: Trash swarm faction that can eventually summon dragons. Sky Lord: Flying people faction that starts in the cloud realm Scourge Lord: Builds obelisks that drains life power and turn the world into a desert. Use lots of decay type monsters.
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Aug 14, 2021 08:51
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What's the difference between Elysium and dominions?
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Aug 14, 2021 12:24
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There are definintely a bunch of re-used assets. I had a bit of a moment when I looked at the steam page not realising it was published by Illwinter.
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Aug 14, 2021 12:29
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Dominions are a multiplayer game pretending to be a single player game, Elysium is a single player game pretending to be a multiplayer game. More seriously, Elysium is generally a game on a much smaller scale, but somehow with a lot less scripting. The spritework and interface is shared quite a bit. The writing and unit descriptions are generally humorous, and done in character by not-Roman scribes, one of whom may be extremely salty about being rejected by a Caelian scout. (As an aside, there's an ongoing Dominions 5 lets play at the moment in the LP forum)
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Aug 14, 2021 12:31
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Conquest of Elysium 5 is coming out in a few days. They're adding 4 new planes of reality (cloud/sky realm, Atzlan, Primal, Celestial) boats and boat battles and a bunch of new battle maps including towns, forests etc and destructible fortifications. Also three new factions. I don't think I've ever seen any of the other planes on Conquest of Elysium, despite playing it quite a bit. Usually I'm slowly expanding, spending most of my time retaking the few towns and mines I find when they get conquered by wild deer, and then either the AIs get themselves killed doing who knows what or show up on my doorstep on turn 20 with an army of like two hundred units. And the few times I try to fight anything stronger than a few bandits or some wolves my entire army gets destroyed in seconds. Maybe I'm playing it wrong. Mans posted:What's the difference between Elysium and dominions? It's kind of sorta the same game with a completely different engine and gameplay loop I guess? They obviously started from the same place and went in completely different directions. Conquest of Elysium is kind of a roguelike 4x. I find them both fun, just in different ways. Bremen fucked around with this message at 20:08 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 18:04
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Mans posted:What's the difference between Elysium and dominions? Elysium plays more like Heroes of Might and Magic or the old Warlords games where the focus is on having a few armies that go around fighting monsters and claiming resource sites. Much of the difference between factions comes from the different abilities that the leader classes have.
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Aug 14, 2021 23:40
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NoNotTheMindProbe posted:Elysium plays more like Heroes of Might and Magic or the old Warlords games where the focus is on having a few armies that go around fighting monsters and claiming resource sites. Much of the difference between factions comes from the different abilities that the leader classes have. this is one of my favorite genres but I can't get past the illwinter jank to enjoy Elysium :{
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Aug 14, 2021 23:51
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I tried to play Conquest of Elysium 3 a whole lot because "Wild rear end Dominions poo poo but actually playable without joining a two month long multiplayer session where you get to play a turn or two a day" hits approximately 100% of my buttons, but the AI was completely unable to actually play the game on any level so most of my experience boiled down to wandering around the world killing neutrals until I stumbled upon the scattered AI who had failed to expand or tech up at all because they had been penned into their starting bases by roving deer.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:07
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Yeah CoE is very much janky might and magic with a huge ton of extra planes of reality and stuff, but it's still trying to be sort of casual and quick to play. Dominions is a full blown grog wargame that just happens to be set in a fantasy universe.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:09
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Lawman 0 posted:That said I think it's my preference that 4x games throw out ship design all together since I don't think it's really that workable. Distant Worlds would like to have a word with you. Designing my own ship to go explore the galaxy and have adventures with while I automated my empire was fun as heck. Ditto for all the neat ways that you could expand on the presets to create all sorts of new roles. Actually, Distant Worlds is just an amazing strategy and world sim game all around. It's telling that one guy worked on it for only a few years and finished the last expansion many years ago to start work on the sequel only for Stellaris to still not have many of the most basic features that it has. Like a functioning civilian industry that has actual gameplay mechanics and breathes life into the galaxy. Contrast that to how boring and lifeless Stellaris's bog standard tiles on a planet UI take on an economy and galaxy is. One guy built what was essentially a fully automatable 4x that was also a galaxy/captain/fleet commander simulation with a complex economic system and a private industry (that will build ships and run their own enterprises) on top of your government that turns the universe into a living, breathing place with complex logistical systems. And yet despite having a large dev team and a multitude of expansions and updates/revamps Stellaris is a hell of a lot more sterile in play compared to Distant Worlds. It gets to the point where if you get too ahead of your research or unity pulls in Stellaris you're eventually left with literally nothing to do due to staring at an empty, seemingly dead universe. Just comparing the detail of the two game's ground combat illustrates the difference between them. Stellaris's ground combat is relatively simple, you land ships after bombing them if there's sizable defenses, and then they have it out with a morale and hp damage stat tracking system that boils down to the larger number winning (Which without mods is the same in space combat too, barring exploiting loopholes in the AI.). Distant Worlds however has all sorts of crazy poo poo that Stellaris can't even do on that front. Like for instance, you can recruit planetary defense units to shoot down incoming dropships, or recruit special forces that land behind enemy lines ahead of the main force to take out targets of opportunity, or have an air force to enforce proper air superiority while your frontline ground units duke it out. Pharnakes posted:Yeah CoE is very much janky might and magic with a huge ton of extra planes of reality and stuff, but it's still trying to be sort of casual and quick to play. Dominions is a full blown grog wargame that just happens to be set in a fantasy universe. Having tried COE4 I can say that it didn't seem like a very cohesive game. Several classes are just hosed right out the gate due to RNG (Looking at you, Necromancer.) and while the planes are nice it would be far better if they were in Dominions, since it'd provide new objectives to aim for and the game actually has large scale spells that can send people to them. Likewise, the planes very rarely seem to actually influence gameplay in COE4, despite it being one of the perks of that take on the franchise. In most games it actually seems counter-intuitive to use the planes at all barring trying to counter the awful class imbalance on the Necromancer. And even then, that's a crapshoot since you leave yourself open to all sorts of stuff. Likewise, the units you'll field mostly being on the low end of what's in Dominions means that combat ends up incredibly boring barring several classes. Archonex fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 00:20
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Speaking of Distant Worlds, the sequel is supposed to be coming out this year. Probably even pretty soon, I think the original plan when they announced it in January was for Q3 sometime. I haven't heard anything lately though, maybe they've hit a snag? The prerelease footage was promising.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:27
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orangelex44 posted:Speaking of Distant Worlds, the sequel is supposed to be coming out this year. Probably even pretty soon, I think the original plan when they announced it in January was for Q3 sometime. I haven't heard anything lately though, maybe they've hit a snag? The prerelease footage was promising. From watching the forums it seems like the dev is very much a private "It's done when it's done." type of person. I recall he didn't even want to show off some of the footage until it was acceptable to the public. Or to put it another way, it seems like the dev is actually concerned about ensuring the final state of the product is good instead of just hyping up sales. Probably doesn't help that he doesn't have a marketing department either.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:33
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