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MrYenko posted:If I’m reading the Nest Hello specs correctly, it requires 16-24vac. A doorbell transformer outputs low voltage DC. I read the same, plus 10VA. After looking it up online, it doesn't look hard to do, but I'm not sure if theres anything i need to look out for at far as doorbell wire gauge needing to be changed with the transformer upgrade, or if the existing wiring is not going to be a problem.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:18
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H110Hawk posted:Doorbell transformers put out ac. It's just at voltages you expect for DC. Ah ok, I thought they were DC.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:21
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Does anybody know why, historically, doorbells have transformers? Is it to prevent shocks if there's a wiring fault and the bell itself is live?
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Aug 14, 2021 19:26
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Does anybody know why, historically, doorbells have transformers? Is it to prevent shocks if there's a wiring fault and the bell itself is live? It's to protect against Decepticons.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:30
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Does anybody know why, historically, doorbells have transformers? Is it to prevent shocks if there's a wiring fault and the bell itself is live? Yeah. Current limiting, mostly, so you can bury the chime and wiring in a wall and not worry about burning the place down when someone holds the button down, essentially shorting the solenoid coil. It's not Class I or Class II or anything actually fire-rated-current-limiting; just a way to not have 120V solenoids running your doorbell back in the 1920s.
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Aug 14, 2021 19:55
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As someone who has been shocked by their friends janky doorbell its way nicer than getting hit with 120v as well.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:34
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H110Hawk posted:Have you considered buying a convection oven? Seriously, you have a mountain of power right there. I'm trying to minimize how big it would be. A convection oven would be giant and heavy.
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Aug 14, 2021 21:32
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Tried to find where I could tap in to power my new bathroom fan, and, uh...  I have no idea what's going on in my attic. E: A real question though. How should I be using the sensitivity on my non-contact tester? I've got a Commercial Electric with 3 settings, it defaults to the middle sensitivity, and touching directly to an NM cable that I'm reasonably sure is off, it beeps at me but doesn't quite give a steady tone. Likewise touching a bundle of 6 or so THNN wires that I'm quite sure are dead, I get beeping but not a steady tone. If I'm able to touch the wire/cable directly should I be using it on the lowest sensitivity, where it doesn't beep on those wires/cables? FISHMANPET fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Aug 14, 2021 |
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Aug 14, 2021 22:54
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I have that one, it's kinda garbage. Set it to high. You should get a nice steady tone from a few inches out. If you're getting intermittent stuff it could be a lot of things but that overstuffed box is just always hot unless you kill the main.  I have never gotten a false negative from it, only false positives which I could eliminate sources of magnetism until I got a negative. You shouldn't need to actually touch anything.
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Aug 14, 2021 23:34
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Ironically that first box is dead as a church mouse. The "bundle of wires" I'm not sure about is this one:  And then there's just a 12/2 NM cable running across the attic, that I'm 99% sure goes from a switch to a light, and with the breaker for that light off and the light switch off, I beep when I get really close to it. Those junction boxes I'm just gonna ignore and ask my electrician when he comes by again on Tuesday, but the 12/2 wire is for a fan I want to install so I want to be sure it's dead. But it sounds like if I have to get that close to get anything that it's probably just stray voltage and not an actual live wire.
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Aug 14, 2021 23:47
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Following up on my doorbell transformer escapades, I finally bought a Klein non contact voltage tester and set about all least taking a look at my old transformer. Huge pain and I should have paid someone just because of how awkward a place of is to to work, but I did get a look in: Two black wires coming out of the old hanging transformer, one into a wire nut with two black wires, another into another wire but with two white wires. What I don't see is a ground wire connection for the old transformer, and box is plastic so I'm not sure it was every grounded. Is the extra (copper?) Two wires the ground? New transformer has white, black, green wires which I think go to black, white, and ground wires. Also, is wire gauge something that's obvious for seasoned electricians? Is it obvious from the pictures or do I need to get a measuring tool? My wire nuts are good for 3 16 AWG wires and now I don't know if that's big enough. Edit: went ahead and wired it in and everything works now. Only issues were that one of the two white wires wasn't actually stripped so I did that before connecting. Second is my wire nuts were not long enough to cover the entire length of exposed wire so I ended up throwing back on the old ones to test it out which I'm assuming is not recommended. Off to home Depot to get some bigger ones and finally close this out tomorrow. PageMaster fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 01:35
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PageMaster posted:Edit: went ahead and wired it in and everything works now. Only issues were that one of the two white wires wasn't actually stripped so I did that before connecting. Second is my wire nuts were not long enough to cover the entire length of exposed wire so I ended up throwing back on the old ones to test it out which I'm assuming is not recommended. Off to home Depot to get some bigger ones and finally close this out tomorrow. You're assuming it's not recommended to re-use wire nuts after re-splicing? I don't think there's a problem with that unless I'm misunderstanding. As long as the spring thing still works and it's properly sized for the number / gauge of the new # of wires. Inner Light fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 04:12
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PageMaster posted:
If you have a wire stripper, you can use it to measure wire diameter. Otherwise, Romex (if it's not too old) has a tan jacket for 14 gauge and a yellow jacket for 12 gauge. Most wire that's run on its own like THHN is often marked.
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Aug 15, 2021 06:57
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I may have assumed incorrectly about it being standard practice to reuse wire nuts, but these are 30 years old anyways so I figured might as well. Reading further, I may need to go back in anyways but need to do some more research for the ground. The ground wire is too recessed with both bonded to each other somehow, and also thicker than the other wires so I couldn't pretwist it. I was able to put my green wire in the box and have the end come out parallel to one of the ground wires, and then put on a nut; I couldn't pull the green wire out of the nut, nor the nut off the ground, after tightening, but I see the are some 'greenies' nuts for grounding and I'm not sure if there's a difference or if the normal ones are fine for the grounding connection. Edit: ^^ oh wow I do have an old wire stripper and it does actually have this! PageMaster fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 07:05
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If you're doing wire work and not springing for the fancy lever locks, just buy the can of like 250 yellow/red mix and never wonder if you have enough to do a job again. Let's you always toss old ones for a few pennies a splice.
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Aug 15, 2021 16:29
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Thanks all for entertaining my questions(even if maybe basic common sense for an electrician). I got a bag of the yellows (original installedwere red which I believe are the same) and used those just fine; first ones I bought were blue which didn't cover enough of the exposed wire. Also just used a yellow to put the transformer ground on the copper ground with a mechanical connection and everything fits so unless grounds require some special connection i'm good to go. For something I figured almost no thought goes into, it seems like a lot of very different and passionate opinions on it (twist vs pretwist, wago vs twist, red vs yellow nuts, how tight to twist, etc.) online. PageMaster fucked around with this message at 17:09 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 16:56
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The only opinions are Wagos and people who don't know about Wagos
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Aug 15, 2021 17:12
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PageMaster posted:Thanks all for entertaining my questions(even if maybe basic common sense for an electrician). I got a bag of the yellows (original installedwere red which I believe are the same) and used those just fine; first ones I bought were blue which didn't cover enough of the exposed wire. Also just used a yellow to put the transformer ground on the copper ground with a mechanical connection and everything fits so unless grounds require some special connection i'm good to go. For the final authority, just read the side of the bag. That's how the connector is certified and listed, so just follow those instructions. From memory: Trim to length; let stranded lead slightly (stick out longer than the others). Pretwisting is acceptable but not required. Put wire nut on and twist, holding wire one to two inches away from wire nut. Continue twisting until one or two twists appear in the wire.
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Aug 15, 2021 17:12
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Anyone know where I should look to try and find an unpopular breaker? The big box stores are sold out of it and not restocking as far as I can tell. I discovered today that my AC compressor should be on a 25amp breaker, but it's on a 30 amp breaker. The wiring is at least correct (10 gauge) but I'd like to get that breaker swapped out for a proper one, and at the same time swap it out for a quad breaker that will allow me to hook my Sense energy monitor up to it as well, instead of wasting 2 breaker slots on it by itself. This is the breaker I want: https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HO...-plug-in-mount/ This breaker would also do: https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HO...-plug-in-mount/ However, the only places I can find with any to sell is Ebay, which is a 5 pack of them for $175. https://www.ebay.com/itm/333780317807?hash=item4db6db766f:g:otcAAOSwl3Vfpa73
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Aug 15, 2021 17:44
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SpartanIvy posted:Anyone know where I should look to try and find an unpopular breaker? The big box stores are sold out of it and not restocking as far as I can tell. Honestly, with logistics and supply so messed up right now, I'd pull the trigger on the ebay lot and resell four of them. That's a very specific application and since it's a home-line breaker it's unlikely the supply houses around you would carry it. It's worth calling around, though. Have exact part numbers and be willing to pay the premium for being a schmoe off the street and getting a one-off of a rare item.
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Aug 15, 2021 18:16
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babyeatingpsychopath posted:Honestly, with logistics and supply so messed up right now, I'd pull the trigger on the ebay lot and resell four of them. That's a very specific application and since it's a home-line breaker it's unlikely the supply houses around you would carry it. It's worth calling around, though. Have exact part numbers and be willing to pay the premium for being a schmoe off the street and getting a one-off of a rare item. I was ordering some other parts off SupplyHouse.com and discovered they have them OOS but pending a restock in September, so I went ahead and threw one in my cart. The compressor has been setup this way for something like 5 years at this point so I'm not too worried about it burning down my house in the interim. If that order gets cancelled my next thought is to visit the many supply stores around me like you said. They really dislike selling to homeowners though, and with good reason I'm sure.
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Aug 15, 2021 18:29
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Motronic posted:
Hey considering that this is all new to me I think im doin okay. Mainly because I've had good mentors in this thread.
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Aug 15, 2021 18:32
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SpartanIvy posted:Anyone know where I should look to try and find an unpopular breaker? The big box stores are sold out of it and not restocking as far as I can tell. What’s the actual issue, though? If the wiring is sized correctly, the breaker is there to protect the harnessing / wiring, not necessarily the downstream device, right? So, the main issue is if you have wiring that isn’t the right gauge. The trip curve on most breakers, IIRC, will have it “instantly” trip on the kind of kA short where two wires Touch / dead short, but could run “over” its nameplate for a good 30 minutes if it’s a small overage; like that 25 A breaker would probably take some time to trip at 28-30 A of draw, and if that was somehow damaging to the compressor, it would shut off fast enough to make a difference. Unless I’m grossly misunderstanding the application, but fusing in general is always application-specific to me… are you protecting wiring, downstream devices, etc etc. I was under the impression most standard (non AFCI/GFCI) breakers exist to trip ASAP when a frayed extension cord running a Christmas tree for the 20th year finally rubs L and N together. tl;dr -- are you sure you have to change something? movax fucked around with this message at 21:27 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 19:25
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movax posted:I was under the impression most standard (non AFCI/GFCI) breakers exist to trip ASAP when a frayed extension cord running a Christmas tree for the 20th year finally rubs L and N together. That’s correct. No circuit breaker is intended to protect equipment, and the only circuit breaker intended to protect personnel is a GFCI breaker/RCD. Everything else exists solely to protect the structure and permanent wiring.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:37
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How much does the quad 2pole 15/25 GFCI breaker cost lmao
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Aug 15, 2021 19:39
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SpartanIvy posted:Anyone know where I should look to try and find an unpopular breaker? The big box stores are sold out of it and not restocking as far as I can tell. Are you sure the local disconnect isn't fused properly and the upstream breaker is just for fuse to disconnect? Open that little box next to the compressor and see. What's the make and model of the ac? Take a picture of the plate if you can.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:35
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SpartanIvy posted:This is the breaker I want: Huh, I didn't even know SE made a Homeline quad with the outer handles tied together. I have a few of the quads with individual 20A handles on the outside, but never saw this one. Even the 'more common' quads (20-30-20 or 20-40-20) have been hard to find during the pandemic. A 20-25-20 is a rare beast indeed, I've never seen one in person.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:11
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movax posted:What’s the actual issue, though? If the wiring is sized correctly, the breaker is there to protect the harnessing / wiring, not necessarily the downstream device, right? So, the main issue is if you have wiring that isn’t the right gauge. The trip curve on most breakers, IIRC, will have it “instantly” trip on the kind of kA short where two wires Touch / dead short, but could run “over” its nameplate for a good 30 minutes if it’s a small overage; like that 25 A breaker would probably take some time to trip at 28-30 A of draw, and if that was somehow damaging to the compressor, it would shut off fast enough to make a difference. The wire is all sized correctly, and I'm not exactly sure what the issue is with a 30 amp vs 25 amp, but the panel specifically calls out a 25 amp breaker MAX. Unless that's saying that's the max it can possibly draw, which I don't think it is because it would be strange to call it out as both the FUSE and BREAKER maximum draw if it was for the device itself. e: I think it may have to do with the internal wiring which may only be rated for 25 amps. Therefore with a 30 amp breaker there's a risk of overloading those wires, but not the 10 gauge wires supplying it power. Rufio posted:How much does the quad 2pole 15/25 GFCI breaker cost lmao $30-$40. Much less than the GFCI/AFCI breakers I have to put on a lot of other circuits! H110Hawk posted:Are you sure the local disconnect isn't fused properly and the upstream breaker is just for fuse to disconnect? Open that little box next to the compressor and see. What's the make and model of the ac? Take a picture of the plate if you can. There is no local disconnect. It goes straight from the compressor to the breaker panel on the outside of my house which is right next to it. By code if the panel is within 6 feet or so you don't need a local disconnect because the breaker is local enough to be the disconnect. Picture of plate with 25a max breaker specified  B-Nasty posted:Huh, I didn't even know SE made a Homeline quad with the outer handles tied together. I have a few of the quads with individual 20A handles on the outside, but never saw this one. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 21:39 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 21:31
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So I have a circuit on my panel that runs a bunch of outdoor common lighting for our complex, including about 250 W of LED lights that light the driveway coming up. The world's shittiest motion sensors are hooked up to them, and I swear to god, I often see 100-250 W of power being burned on my Emporia running those lights, even during the day. I know exactly which circuit / breaker they are coming off in my panel -- some wires that disappear down into a conduit that heads out under my garage / driveway to wherever they decided to lay conduit 30 years ago. What's a good solution for a programmable timer / some type of switch that I can install in a junction box, or something like that? I'd love to make it 'sunset/sunrise' like HomeKit stuff, vs a PE cell (1 -- they seem to all suck / die quickly, 2 -- there would be no visibility for it in the garage). I figure the bare minimum is getting something like this Intermatic switch, putting a new metal junction box right next to my panel, and modify wiring to go breaker -> box -> timer -> back to panel -> wire nut to the original load wire. Anything smarter and not completely Internet of poo poo people have used? Also, on my previous question here... I think the best option is for me to suck it up and put some black raceway in the least worst place, and just run down that at one point. Will drill sideways so the blinds can all run horizontally, but no need to drill the extra holes to pop "up", and then go over.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:43
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SpartanIvy posted:There is no local disconnect. It goes straight from the compressor to the breaker panel on the outside of my house which is right next to it. By code if the panel is within 6 feet or so you don't need a local disconnect because the breaker is local enough to be the disconnect. What a pain in the butt. Googling indicates a lot of people doing the 30 for 25 thing.  maybe add a local disconnect with a 25a fuse?
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Aug 15, 2021 22:08
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Hey all, I'm ready to be waved off of this project, but maybe it's normal and fine? I did my own 50 amp EVSE install in my backyard, no real hitches other than learning about pros and cons of wires and conduits. My buddy asked for some help setting up a similar thing at his place. I'm confused by his breaker box, though... He says the 60 amp breaker in the top left is his house main, however, there also appears to be a utility line going directly to the backplane, and where do those wires go that are on his service disconnect breaker? Since it's his house and his family, I think at this point I'll help with the wire running and exterior installation and suggest he talk to an electrician. Or is this perfectly safe and normal and just needs to be explained to me? 
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Aug 15, 2021 22:20
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SpartanIvy posted:Anyone know where I should look to try and find an unpopular breaker? The big box stores are sold out of it and not restocking as far as I can tell. It may be easier (and cheaper) to find a 20a quad breaker than a 25a. edit: there's no reason to put this on a 25a breaker instead of 20a is what I'm getting at. Blackbeer fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 22:25
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LRADIKAL posted:Hey all, I'm ready to be waved off of this project, but maybe it's normal and fine? I wouldn't ever help a friend with something in a panel except swapping out a breaker or something else trivial like that. There's a lot of risk and very little reward. I would suggest they consult an electrician. To answer your question though, the 60 amp breaker probably goes to a sub panel elsewhere inside the house to power it. The hot and neutral supply lines look to be labeled correctly to me. Breakers always attach to hot lines, and you can see all the neutrals and grounds connected to the bar fed by the large neutral service wire at the bottom there. The one REALLY big white wire that's on it's own little lug is almost certainly the neutral that goes to the sub panel fed by that 60 amp breaker. It also looks like there's a similarly sized ground to the left of it at the back. That's probably the ground for the subpanel. Remember, you can only bond ground and neutrals at the main panel, not sub panels! The giant main service wires most likely go to the electrical meter, or ideally a large breaker that allows you to cut power to everything without pulling the meter. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 22:27
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Thanks, yeah, my level of comfort is to cut main power, pop in breaker, put in new wires, but if I'm not 100 percent sure what's hot, I'm not touching it.
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Aug 15, 2021 22:43
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That's not normal; I'd want to see where those blue-marked wires go. I can't imagine the blue wires are the main and the larger red marked wires are feeding a sub-panel, but it'd have to be checked out.
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Aug 15, 2021 22:43
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He must have a separate main breaker between that panel and the meter. Unusual for sure. All those skipped slots make me think some stuff was rewired to a subpanel at some point.
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Aug 15, 2021 22:57
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movax posted:So I have a circuit on my panel that runs a bunch of outdoor common lighting for our complex, including about 250 W of LED lights that light the driveway coming up. The world's shittiest motion sensors are hooked up to them, and I swear to god, I often see 100-250 W of power being burned on my Emporia running those lights, even during the day. Fake edit, I’m an idiot… I think I have a spare Caseta switch somewhere. I’ll just toss that in, and use HomeKit to run the dusk / dawn cycle.
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Aug 15, 2021 23:04
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H110Hawk posted:What a pain in the butt. Googling indicates a lot of people doing the 30 for 25 thing. That's what I'd do, even with the extra parts probably cheaper than a 25A breaker. movax posted:I figure the bare minimum is getting something like this Intermatic switch, putting a new metal junction box right next to my panel, and modify wiring to go breaker -> box -> timer -> back to panel -> wire nut to the original load wire. Anything smarter and not completely Internet of poo poo people have used? I'm going to do that exact same thing with some lighting in my backyard where the only control right now is a switch at the far corner, without an accessible neutral. It's also on a 20A breaker for no goddamn reason. But, that's all waiting a bit longer until there's some Saturday morning that isn't a) rainy b) super loving hot or c) both, so I can kill the main breaker without making everyone in the house too mad.
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Aug 16, 2021 01:49
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IOwnCalculus posted:That's what I'd do, even with the extra parts probably cheaper than a 25A breaker. A 2 pole 20a breaker, which is what is required for this condenser unit, is cheaper than a fused disconnect and everything needed to install it. It sounds like they need room for another 240V circuit. Making room with tandem breakers is cheaper than a sub panel.
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Aug 16, 2021 03:13
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Went digging in one of my rewired lights from the "inside" (rather than from above in the attic) and it looks like they've put the light on a switch loop (fine). When I was talking with the "main" electrician I mentioned I wanted 3-wire to all the light switches because in the future I might want to put in fans and he said oh they'd do that anyway because of code. This guy knows his poo poo, but because of scheduling reasons, he wasn't actually around when the "knob & tube" crew did their stuff. So anyway, from discussion here, my understanding is that when pulling new wire to a switch for a switch loop, by code it should be 3-wire (even though the white neutral isn't needed) so that you don't have hot on a white wire. So in my office there's a 2-wire from source to the light fixture, then a 3-wire from the fixture to the switch. I compared the wiring to my black & decker electrical book, and everything looks as it should. Except instead of the switch loop being done on the black and red wire with the neutral unused, the switch loop uses the black and the white, with no markings on the white to indicate it's hot, and the red is just capped off at both ends. From my understanding, this is a code violation, though not one that's imminently dangerous. The "main" guy is coming over on Tuesday to finish up a few things, and I'm going to point it out to him either way, but I'm wondering how big of a deal this is. Pictures of said switch/fixture wiring: https://imgur.com/a/ZX3lPtj Also kind of curious that if you're pulling all new wire anyway, why you'd run power to the fixture first, necessitating a switch loop, rather than running power to the switch and then over to the fixture (and running a 3-wire as requested for future fan needs). ALSO also, the circuits upstairs seem kind of hosed up. There used to be 2 circuits (plus a newer bathroom GFCI, let's ignore that for the moment, it's fine), which were a shared neutral, and nearly everything in the house ran off those (because of the knob & tube). I haven't done a detailed inventory of the main floor, but the upstairs is now on 2circuits. Upstairs is 3 bedooms, one bathroom, a hallway, and the attic. Circuit 1: 2/3 outlets in the main bedroom, all outlets in the second bedroom, the overhead light in the second bedroom, the closet light for the second bedroom, all the outlets in the third bedroom, all the lights and fan in the bathroom, and the attic lights Circuit 2: Hallway lights, main bedroom lights, 1/3 outlets in the main bedroom (this was a "new" outlet they added), and the light in the third bedroom. These circuits are also horribly mislabeled, "Circuit 1" is labelled "bathroom lights" and Circuit 2 is labelled "living room lights/upper lights". A third circuit labelled "Upper/Bed Lights" actually powers the main floor lights (including the living room), and one outlet in the kitchen for a TV (that outlet is also new). I'm going to talk to him about all of that as well, and at the very least getting things more accurately labelled, but also wondering how "bad" it is to have your circuits sort of splayed all over the place like that. The way it all went down is that I had the knob & tube rewiring plus a panel/service upgrade. The knob & tube crew came and did their thing on their own without the "main" guy present, and they pulled all the new circuits and ran it back to my old panel that was a bit too small, so they must have pigtailed some circuits together to get them onto the same breaker. Then a few weeks later my guy came with an apprentice (a few hours away from journeyman), the apprentice did the panel swap while my guy did the service work outside. My guess is there wasn't any kind of communication between the knob & tube crew and the service/panel crew to explain how things were done, so the panel guy just plugged everything in the way it was before and copied over the labels, which were horribly inaccurate. What's done is done, and I'm not sure there's anything that's imminently dangerous perse, just wondering how much of a stink (if any) I should make about any of this. I'll show it to my guy when he comes, because based on our conversations he's very interested in seeing these kinds of results, but not sure if I need to push for anything beyond that.
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Aug 16, 2021 04:05
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