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GhostofJohnMuir posted:i reject the idea that spending more money inherently equates to more happiness. Nobody is saying this. quote:when i set long term discretionary goals, or generally spend discretionary money, it's on things i truly want to do. and you're still making yourself happy through buying stuff. Maybe your saving / spending balance point is a little different, but it's the same concept.
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Aug 14, 2021 10:38
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This is getting dumb. Everyone has different money needs/desires/habits so it’s just not a good question, unless there’s a good rule of thumb or formula which is generally applicable. You could consider what your budget would look like at the end of the path you’re on, anticipate needing a bit less in living expenses since old people tend to do less things as they age and a bit more in healthcare spending and try to control for inflation and whatever factors you can try to anticipate.
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Aug 14, 2021 16:56
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Hadlock posted:Spend all my money in mexico on the beach driving expensive cars before they put me in a wheelchair in front of a TV forever at 70, message received loud and clear IIRC medicaid will conduct an audit of your finances to determine whether you purposefully spent down or gave away all of your funds to qualify.
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Aug 14, 2021 18:31
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:What I've always wondered is how are people retiring early if their only savings has been in tax-advantaged spaces (and thus by definition, Not Very Much) Most people retiring early are married/have a partner so saving entirely in tax advantaged is a more realistic possibility. Also 52 is early for retirement by most people's standards. Hell, 62 is early for a lot of people.
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Aug 14, 2021 20:09
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Yeah but at 62 you just go ahead and withdraw from your tax advantaged space.... I'm still not sure how people retire early while saving so very little! Paid off house and a pauper lifestyle in retirement?
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Aug 14, 2021 20:27
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:$1,890,000. GoGoGadgetChris posted:a pauper lifestyle in retirement lol come on chris
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Aug 14, 2021 22:23
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Inept posted:lol come on chris Can't afford gold bars on that little amount!
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Aug 14, 2021 22:27
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I think $1.9M is inadequate for a 25+ year retirement, yes That's conventional retirement age money
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Aug 14, 2021 23:01
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I think $1.9M is inadequate for a 25+ year retirement, yes Can you show your work?
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Aug 14, 2021 23:37
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pokeyman posted:Can you show your work? It's under $80k a year and a long retirement means an increased sequence of returns risk. This isn't anything groundbreaking. The part you may be disagreeing with is that you personally will not need that level of income in retirement.
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Aug 14, 2021 23:43
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Must be subjective, but I would not feel comfortable leaving the workforce in my 50s with annual income of 4% X $1.9M But I'm the odd man out here so my question of "how can people retire early while saving so little" has been answered (other people need less $ in retirement)
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Aug 14, 2021 23:44
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Presumably one would have some amount of social security kicking in at some point. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility.
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Aug 14, 2021 23:50
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Motronic posted:It's under $80k a year and a long retirement means an increased sequence of returns risk. I have no trouble coming up with assumptions and inputs that take "$1.9mm for 25+ years" prematurely down to $0, nor was I disagreeing with anyone over anything. I was curious what specifically the OP had in mind. But thank you for being an rear end while stating obvious irrelevancies. GoGoGadgetChris posted:Must be subjective, but I would not feel comfortable leaving the workforce in my 50s with annual income of 4% X $1.9M That's fair, a lot depends on your estimate for annual expenditures. And I'm not sure you are the odd one out, my guess is it just sounds like a large lump sum before you go work through how it might draw down.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:02
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I've never made more than $10k a year (net after paying student loans  ) so I'll be happy to take that $80k/year off your hands if you aren't going to use it. I'll muddle through.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:57
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Must be subjective, but I would not feel comfortable leaving the workforce in my 50s with annual income of 4% X $1.9M You can also do more than $20k per year (which is how you came to your $1.9M number) tax-advantaged through back-door and mega back-door Roth shenanigans if they are available to you.
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Aug 15, 2021 01:18
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Whether or not 80k a year sounds good for 25+ years depends on living situation. If I'm living in a paid off home that seems plenty good enough.
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Aug 15, 2021 01:25
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ROJO posted:You can also do more than $20k per year (which is how you came to your $1.9M number) tax-advantaged through back-door and mega back-door Roth shenanigans if they are available to you. And then withdraw the Roth contributions any time, right? Thus circumventing the issue of "too much of my money is locked up until 59.5"? Seems like we're straying far from the original issue, and into "What is enough to retire"...
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Aug 15, 2021 02:59
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:And then withdraw the Roth contributions any time, right? Thus circumventing the issue of "too much of my money is locked up until 59.5"?
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Aug 15, 2021 03:37
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The Puppy Bowl posted:Whether or not 80k a year sounds good for 25+ years depends on living situation. If I'm living in a paid off home that seems plenty good enough. My parents have almost no retirement savings except a lovely annuity but they own their home. I'm terrified that there's going to be a huge earthquake in california in the next 30 years and they'll lose everything.
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Aug 15, 2021 06:31
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My retirement raw number goals are not massive, but also I am on track for a cost of living-adjusted pension plan with exceptionally inexpensive government subsidized healthcare. Without that plan, my retirement saving goals might jump a whole lot, along with planned years working fulltime. This still means my early retirement plan is largely a combination of DINK plus pretty we are frugal compared to my peers, while we still do a significant amount of luxury spending compared to people who make median wages or low wages.
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Aug 15, 2021 08:50
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Mu Zeta posted:My parents have almost no retirement savings except a lovely annuity but they own their home. I'm terrified that there's going to be a huge earthquake in california in the next 30 years and they'll lose everything. That's a less than ideal situation but also incredibly fixable. Sell the California house in an insanely hot market for a huge amount of money.
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Aug 15, 2021 09:36
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Must be subjective, but I would not feel comfortable leaving the workforce in my 50s with annual income of 4% X $1.9M I’m 56 and plan to leave the work force between 59/60 with $1.7-2m. We are thrifty and have plans to spend most of the time biking, running, playing board games, and traveling as money allows. I also have some short term contract work offered that I may leverage to travel / buy more bikes.
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Aug 15, 2021 15:57
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Ropes4u posted:We have plans to spend most of the time biking 
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Aug 15, 2021 16:05
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Ropes4u posted:Between 59/60 with $1.7-2m. Literally at 59.5? The age where you can withdraw from your 401k?! I guess we really are just discussing "how much is enough to retire". Furthering my suspicion that "I can't retire early, all my money is in retirement accounts" is not a real thing
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Aug 15, 2021 16:23
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Literally at 59.5? The age where you can withdraw from your 401k?! Aren't you about to sell the house you swindled off someone for 7 figures in profit?
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Aug 15, 2021 16:31
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Not to get too D/D but is this how the ruling elites alienate us from our labor (lol)? By locking our savings into retirement accounts forcing us to work late into life and forego the chance to have a nice early retirement.“Work till you’re 60 or we’ll tax the poo poo out of it all”. I guess it would be interesting to consider how one might re-balance there investment allocations if they wanted to target, say, a retirement at age 50-55. I wonder if you might skew slightly away from tax advantage accounts to have that flexibility. I am totally spitballing but the thought had not really crossed my mind, as someone interested in possibly retiring slightly early, or doing a partial retirement hobbez fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 18:51
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hobbez posted:Not to get too D/D but is this how the ruling elites alienate us from our labor (lol)? By locking our savings into retirement accounts forcing us to work late into life and forego the chance to have a nice early retirement.“Work till you’re 60 or we’ll tax the poo poo out of it all”. Yes, having access to a tax-advantaged retirement savings account is a terrible tyranny
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Aug 15, 2021 18:54
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Roth IRA, say it with me now
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Aug 15, 2021 19:01
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hobbez posted:Not to get too D/D but is this how the ruling elites alienate us from our labor (lol)? By locking our savings into retirement accounts forcing us to work late into life and forego the chance to have a nice early retirement.“Work till you’re 60 or we’ll tax the poo poo out of it all”. This should really be in the OP but you can totally access your 401k and trad IRA before 59.5 with just a moderate amount of planning: https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/
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Aug 15, 2021 19:18
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silence_kit posted:Yes, having access to a tax-advantaged retirement savings account is a terrible tyranny Haha that’s not what I’m saying. Tax advantages accounts, all day. I’m just commenting on the somewhat arbitrary incentive structure they create. All the FIRE people recommend maxing tax advantaged space first so I doubt the math changes at all. Seems amazing they can continue to fund themselves at such a young age when they’re stashing so much money in accounts they can’t touch, but, I guess there is a way.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:18
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hobbez posted:I guess it would be interesting to consider how one might re-balance there investment allocations if they wanted to target, say, a retirement at age 50-55. I wonder if you might skew slightly away from tax advantage accounts to have that flexibility. It absolutely does. Needing access to the money saved via very high savings rate to buy a home and then live off a pension means you may even *gasp* not always max out tax-advantage in order to pay for a retirement home/apt and then live off pension rather than socking away your money until age 59.5, if you want to retire in your forties or earlier. It doesn’t mean you turn your back on tax advantage though. That becomes your option to have funds to move, upgrade lifestyle, or as a backup if things do not go according to plan. Note that all of the above presupposes a pension at a young age, which is very rare and often very painful to get.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:21
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drainpipe posted:This should really be in the OP but you can totally access your 401k and trad IRA before 59.5 with just a moderate amount of planning: https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-access-retirement-funds-early/ Thread delivers! Gonna dig into this in more detail later. Learn something new every day!
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Aug 15, 2021 19:23
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hobbez posted:I guess it would be interesting to consider how one might re-balance there investment allocations if they wanted to target, say, a retirement at age 50-55. I wonder if you might skew slightly away from tax advantage accounts to have that flexibility. I am planning to retire in that age range but will probably have a healthy public sector pension to draw on.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:58
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hobbez posted:All the FIRE people recommend maxing tax advantaged space first so I doubt the math changes at all. Seems amazing they can continue to fund themselves at such a young age when they’re stashing so much money in accounts they can’t touch, but, I guess there is a way. I have a feeling it's a mix of having 1) family resources/money and/or 2) assuming they'll be ok living on 20k/year until they die.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:02
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Do Roth 401(k)s have the 10% early withdrawal penalty of a 401(k), or do they allow withdrawal of contributions like a Roth IRA? Most of my tax advantaged accounts are in Roth 401(k) at this point so I should know this. I’m going to retire early in about two months (for the second time, we will see how long it sticks) but have a lot saved in a non-encumbered brokerage account so the above paragraph is hopefully moot in my case.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:14
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:Literally at 59.5? The age where you can withdraw from your 401k?! More about hitting a number I’m comfortable with than anything at this point, but iirc you can withdrawal at 55. Ideally I would have $3-5m and be 25 years old but a divorce and poor life choices didn’t make that happen. Moving to Colorado expanded my options for local activities I enjoy but also cost mean additional 300k for the same house. In the end I think it boils down to the amount of risk you are willing to take, how much you want to spend, and where you want to live (cost)
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Aug 15, 2021 20:20
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Hi folks, I’m trying to help my Aunt who is suffering from dementia and in an assisted living home. She is roughly 70 years old. Her current finances basically boil down to the below: Personal trust: UGSCX 20% - gov securities fund ANBCX 21% - bond fund BFACX 21% - bond fund FCIXX 30% - money market fund IRA ONGIX 8% - J.P. Morgan investor growth & income fund Total assets ~$350k I personally follow the bogglehead 3-fund approach, but obviously she’s in a very different position. Could anyone help with suggestions on where I should look to better optimize her allocations? Flowers for QAnon fucked around with this message at 21:53 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 19:43
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Flowers for QAnon posted:Hi folks, Hire a professional conservator who takes on a fiduciary responsibility for her. Does she have a conservator? Power of attorney anywhere? Estate plan?
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Aug 16, 2021 20:07
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Flowers for QAnon posted:I personally follow the bogglehead 3-fund approach, but obviously she’s in a very different position. Could anyone help with suggestions on where I should look to better optimize her allocations?
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Aug 16, 2021 20:50
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moana posted:It would be good to have an actual fiduciary/conservator, but no harm in you doing a little work to make sure they are doing right by her. This is exactly what I’m doing, she does have actual fiduciary/conservator. Just double checking nothing fishy is going on & nothing exceedingly stupid. Besides the high expense ratios, nothing is drastically out of wack, is it? Flowers for QAnon fucked around with this message at 21:54 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 21:45
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