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Honestly you could basically just make a tweet that says "The city of Hamalabad has been taking by the Taliban, which is north of Kabul" and I wouldn't even doubt it even though I made up Hamalabad just now
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Aug 15, 2021 00:54
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Well yeah, obviously they could kill a US battalion and take over the airport, at least until the much larger US force arrives, but the Taliban strategists are not stupid and I don't think they'd be willing to take insane casualties for a propaganda stunt against a force that is leaving as quickly as possible anyway.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:55
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As I said, I think the real question will be how well the Taliban commanders can prevent their people from doing something stupid, and how aggressively the US military will respond if/when somebody does do something stupid. This will basically be a test of discipline and restraint by all parties.
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Aug 15, 2021 01:01
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mllaneza posted:Flashman
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Aug 15, 2021 01:02
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Sinteres posted:My biggest what if about the invasion/occupation, other than an earlier withdrawal by the US, is what if we'd actually empowered the Northern Alliance instead of an ethnic Pashtun opportunist. He didn't exactly win over the Pashtun regions of the country, so if we were going to do an imperialism, maybe taking a page from the British rulebook and doing divide and conquer would have worked better? Not saying it would have led to a better outcome for the country, I'm just wondering if it might have "worked" for the US, and I never really understood how Karzai came to be our guy in the first place. Because the US officials involved weren’t consciously trying to “do an imperialism” in the sense you mean, despite, ironically, thinking of the US as an “empire” in a sense that no real-life state has actually been. I think people sometimes underrate the extent to which Bush-era foreign policy was driven by true believers.
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Aug 15, 2021 01:17
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Silver2195 posted:Because the US officials involved weren’t consciously trying to “do an imperialism” in the sense you mean, despite, ironically, thinking of the US as an “empire” in a sense that no real-life state has actually been. I think people sometimes underrate the extent to which Bush-era foreign policy was driven by true believers. I actually agree with that unpopular opinion, but I'm genuinely just curious about how they decided on Karzai. Maybe they figured he was the guy most likely to win a genuine election if they installed him, since they thought he could have crossover appeal that the Northern Alliance couldn't? It's interesting to think of awful people dooming their awful project because deep down they're idealists, but obviously we don't know if naked imperialism would have turned out any better than the imperialism with a smile and some pinkwashing version we got. This is insane Baghdad Bob poo poo. https://twitter.com/SecBlinken/status/1426703449903796229 Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 01:33
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Sinteres posted:I actually agree with that unpopular opinion, but I'm genuinely just curious about how they decided on Karzai. Maybe they figured he was the guy most likely to win a genuine election if they installed him, since they thought he could have crossover appeal that the Northern Alliance couldn't? As far as I can tell, the US didn't decide on Karzai. The UN invited a bunch of Afghan warlords to a conference in December 2001 to set up an interim government, and the warlords voted for Karzai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Conference_on_Afghanistan,_Bonn_(2001) I'm not sure the Bush administration had very concrete plans for what would replace the Taliban as the government of Afghanistan until after they'd already invaded. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 02:19
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Al-Saqr posted:biden just put out a statement that he is sending 5,000 troops to Kabul to evacuate American, allied embassies and staff and evacuate some of the afghans who worked with America. Lmao they are gonna execute those people
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Aug 15, 2021 02:34
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Silver2195 posted:As far as I can tell, the US didn't decide on Karzai. The UN invited a bunch of Afghan warlords to a conference in December 2001 to set up an interim government, and the warlords voted for Karzai: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Conference_on_Afghanistan,_Bonn_(2001) The Rumsfeld Doctrine was an explicit rejection of that sort of nation-building strategy. Chaos and ruin was the overt purpose of the invasion.
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Aug 15, 2021 02:34
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Boat Stuck posted:Aug 15 I may actually be right. drat. https://twitter.com/IntelCrab/status/1426654535339098122 https://twitter.com/sumrkhan1/status/1426718628716625921 https://twitter.com/EsteveGirbes01/status/1426704328870539264 Boat Stuck fucked around with this message at 02:45 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 02:35
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Sinteres posted:I actually agree with that unpopular opinion, but I'm genuinely just curious about how they decided on Karzai. Maybe they figured he was the guy most likely to win a genuine election if they installed him, since they thought he could have crossover appeal that the Northern Alliance couldn't? It's interesting to think of awful people dooming their awful project because deep down they're idealists, but obviously we don't know if naked imperialism would have turned out any better than the imperialism with a smile and some pinkwashing version we got. IIRC the US had someone else they wanted to take over but they sent him back in to the south too soon and he got captured and killed.
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Aug 15, 2021 02:45
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Count Roland posted:In. 9/12 is sept 12.
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Aug 15, 2021 02:47
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Shageletic posted:9/12 is sept 12. You sure you want to stick to your guns on that?
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Aug 15, 2021 02:50
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CzechRepublic National Security Council decided to evacuate local embassy staff and translators from CzechRepublic embassy in Afghanistan. They will evacuate them during next few days Well. Hopefully the Czechs make it out before they renationalize the diplomatic district.
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Aug 15, 2021 02:54
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I think the word 'productive' in this tweet is being used in the most abstract way possible. Like, any possible action is 'productive' in that it brings everything closer to the eventual heat-death of the universe.
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Aug 15, 2021 02:55
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Nissin Cup Nudist posted:I can see how the Taliban maintained numbers post-USA invasion, but how did they get in power in the first place during the 90s? As a dumb westerner, I have no idea how the Talibans ideology is appealing at all Ive read the 90s era Taliban was largely the Mujahideen funded by the US but someone more aware can correct me
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Aug 15, 2021 02:58
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Eric Cantonese posted:Did the US State Department learn anything from South Vietnam or Iran regarding document destruction? I remember seeing pictures from Iran of workers reconstructing shredded documents from the garbage. Nothings ever learned.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:04
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https://twitter.com/SuneEngel/status/1426675831288520705
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Aug 15, 2021 03:08
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I want to tell a small story, when Charlie Wilson was waging his war and supplying the mujahideen/taliban fighters with weapons one of the things that he said "was they can win this fight if they can just get those drat planes out of the air" Now we see it again, as soon as the United States Air support basically dropped to nothingness the Taliban immediately took the entire country in less than eight days. They are now on the gates of Kabul and all utilities have been cut off there's fires and Small arms fire rattling off inside of the capital. It's going to be over in the next few days as an unfortunate end to a 20-year struggle for the Afghan people under the guise of forever support from their puppet Masters the American government.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:12
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Inner Light posted:You sure you want to stick to your guns on that? Lol feel like im cheatin if i change it now
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Aug 15, 2021 03:20
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1. Armed groups will be prevented (by the Taliban and Afghan security forces) from using Afghanistan as a base for acts against the United States and its allies. 2. Foreign forces will withdraw from Afghanistan, including U.S. troops and contractors and coalition forces. 4. The agenda for intra-Afghan negotiations will include discussion of how to implement a permanent and comprehensive cease-fire, and a political roadmap for the future of Afghanistan.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:27
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Shageletic posted:9/12 is sept 12. Ok, quoted to find it more easily. I'm about to go on vacation and may not have internet for a few days. The way things are going it could all be over by the time I'm back.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:30
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:as soon as the United States Air support basically dropped to nothingness the Taliban immediately took the entire country in less than eight days. Air Support was the last active component of US involvement in the fighting in Afghanistan, so I don't disagree that the Taliban were emboldened as they saw it fading out. But I think the specific timeline of the last week is more a factor of the Taliban believing the US would finally keep to it's timetable of evacuation and being eager to ensure they controlled the country on day 1 of the US departure. WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:[b]1. Armed groups will be prevented (by the Taliban and Afghan security forces) from using Afghanistan as a base for acts against the United States and its allies. Discospawn fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 03:31
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Sinteres posted:I actually agree with that unpopular opinion, but I'm genuinely just curious about how they decided on Karzai. Maybe they figured he was the guy most likely to win a genuine election if they installed him, since they thought he could have crossover appeal that the Northern Alliance couldn't? It's interesting to think of awful people dooming their awful project because deep down they're idealists, but obviously we don't know if naked imperialism would have turned out any better than the imperialism with a smile and some pinkwashing version we got. wasnt karzai the least monstrous choice or something? like the other choice was the dude who helped run that hosed up death prison up in the north i think that the CIA helped out in. plus the Lion got blown up the day before 9/11. on the other thing. i think it depends. I think alot of State department folks think they are doing the right thing for various reasons. like war bad and etc but women had actual freedoms and schools and etc. i can see why people would be mad that has gone up in flames. I think IC/military intelligence and poo poo assumed ANA would last a year or so i get more mad at all the W era ghouls coming out and getting pissy because their stupid works are getting tossed into the fire and times have changed. folks like Kagan got big because pre 9/11 they wanted big military build ups and big dumb adventures to build up the economy and show american power and then everyone knocked on their door the second atta slammed the plane into the tower and these fucks were made in charge of policy. Now everyone hates them. Biden and most liberals(and obviously lefties) dont want to be there and the wars now unpopular with the right too for various reasons. so now all these dudes are getting mad because they will now be outcasts again because their armchair bullshit blew up in their face. its also alot of people are mad because they arnt weird political/history nerds and now they see it just implode faster then expected is loving horrific to watch. because knowing how something ends doesn't make it any better watching it happen. WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I want to tell a small story, when Charlie Wilson was waging his war and supplying the mujahideen/taliban fighters with weapons one of the things that he said "was they can win this fight if they can just get those drat planes out of the air" from reading various articles from a couple years back to now. it sounds like they basically had like 40 something percent openly and another 20 or so percent on the downlow. i am sure the second they realized we were gonna pick up and leave at some point. once trump and then biden made it obvious that we were leaving. they just waited us out and probably infaltraited the poo poo out of the various capitals and poo poo.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:37
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Assuming (and I hope I'm not jinxing this) that the embassy evacuation goes according to plan, how many people are going to be left? When does everyone get out?
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Aug 15, 2021 03:41
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Discospawn posted:
Well, The taliban and the Afghan Security forces are going through an acquisition and merger phase. it's very aggressive. Well folks, on the bright side The Osama Bin laden Electric and Gas Company is resuming utilities in helmand. , 
WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 03:46 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 03:41
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Eric Cantonese posted:Assuming (and I hope I'm not jinxing this) that the embassy evacuation goes according to plan, how many people are going to be left? When does everyone get out? What people are you referring to? US citizens, Afghans that have aided the Americans? The US plans to evacuate 3000 people and I bet they mean to do this loving quickly.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:47
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Count Roland posted:What people are you referring to? US citizens, Afghans that have aided the Americans? The US plans to evacuate 3000 people and I bet they mean to do this loving quickly. i assume as many people who helped us in the areas we can get to that we didnt get out already and their families plus Americans and foreigners
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Aug 15, 2021 03:51
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Count Roland posted:What people are you referring to? US citizens, Afghans that have aided the Americans? The US plans to evacuate 3000 people and I bet they mean to do this loving quickly. US citizens and embassy staff. I hope we can take as many Afghan people who worked with the US as we can, but I suspect that's a pipe dream. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/us-embassy-kabul-evacuated-within-36-hours/ This is the closest I found to a story on the retreat timetable. Do we know how many people are waiting for these Special Immigrant Visas?
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Aug 15, 2021 03:54
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Eric Cantonese posted:US citizens and embassy staff. apparently we have been trying to get as many out but the issue is "we didnt expect it to go this quick". the UK however isnt trying or doing anything at all.
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Aug 15, 2021 03:58
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Jalalabad has surrendered just now. Kabul is surrounded. https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2021/aug/15/afghanistan-taliban-close-in-on-kabul-as-last-government-stronghold-in-north-falls
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Aug 15, 2021 04:02
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where do these people come from? No, the taliban did not openly seize cities because the us would just airstrike everything around them and then either americans or (later on) american-backed paramilitaries would literally storm their houses in the middle of the night. That neither means that they are gone or that they are even weakened particularly, it just means they were underground. seriously wtf do these people thinking was preventing the US from fully achieving all operational objectives or w/e in afghanistan who do they think was in any more than notional control of much of the country for the last decade? Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 04:24
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by 'american backed paramilitaries' i mean kill squads, in case that wasn't clear
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Aug 15, 2021 04:25
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Just remember most of the people we want to rescue arent in kabul. They are stuck in the rest of the country.
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Aug 15, 2021 04:31
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Just remember most of the people we want to rescue arent in kabul. They are stuck in the rest of the country. i assume we are sending some kinda delta force types to do it. that or quietly bribing the taliban for some of them?
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Aug 15, 2021 04:39
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According to this WSJ report, the Taliban were paying off surrendered Afghani army soldiers earlier in the year who had 'gone unpaid for months'. https://twitter.com/im_PULSE/status/1426736925466058756?s=20 (thread) ....and people wonder why the army folded in the span of a week
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Aug 15, 2021 05:00
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Oh yeah, the translators were supposed to get some kind of fast tracked visa right? The Taliban seized so many border crossing and roads over the past month that it's a moot point now. There's also thousands of commando's on the death lists too , plus the pilots , and the various regime officials who were trickling back into Kabul but weren't important enough to get a ticket for themselves and their bags of loot. Their only hope was for a negotiated surrender of the capital.Dapper_Swindler posted:i assume we are sending some kinda delta force types to do it. that or quietly bribing the taliban for some of them? lmfao no, this is the US you're talking about. Everyone who works with the US gets betrayed the second that US interests no longer align.
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Aug 15, 2021 05:04
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I don't think they're going to be putting to many US service members on the line to extract Afghani collaborators.
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Aug 15, 2021 05:37
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Shageletic posted:9/12 is sept 12. is it gently caress
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Aug 15, 2021 05:58
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same bridge ffs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgDKn05zxHE&t=119s https://streamable.com/rortdj
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Aug 15, 2021 07:00
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