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SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:My friend, not a new rider, was pulling wheelies and riding his CBR500r aggressively in a parking lot. Mid wheelie his rear tire locked and he skidded out. Yeah I'm going to say it was something like a mis-shift that popped into a different gear after he went up. Or maybe his chain is excessively loose and it skipped a tooth? FYI the oil pickups in street motorcycles are not designed for prolonged use in a vertical position, so if he was doing this for a while he was probably starving the engine of oil at least a little, and that's real bad. If the engine kept running after this incident it wasn't seized, but seizure is a potential outcome of oil starvation. SSH IT ZOMBIE posted:Mechanically, is there any kind of way a bike can fail and like throw you off or get you hurt easy? Like - in a way that makes a bike inherently higher risk than a car? They seem pretty basic mechanically and thus not a lot of crazy ways to fail - most of it would be entirely user error - is that a bad assumption? Bikes are always inherently higher risk than cars  User error is definitely the reason for the crash 99.9% of the time. An excessively loose chain is probably the most common way that a mechanical failure would pitch you off the bike. It drops off or breaks, gets wrapped around the rear sprocket, jams, wheel locks up, etc. I would include a misadjusted chain as user error, though. A flat tire could do it if you are pushing hard when it happens or you don't loosen up and ride it out. After that maybe a seized wheel bearing? Or like, improperly installed brake pads that drop out and jam the front wheel? I'm just grasping at whatever. No, there aren't a whole lot of mechanical issues that could suddenly appear and throw you off out of nowhere. Highside crashes (where you get thrown forwards over the bars, vs. lowsides where the bike just falls over on top of you) most commonly occur when: 1) you lock the front wheel up braking too hard, or 2) you lose traction on the rear wheel in a turn and it starts to skid sideways; panicked, you chop the throttle; the reduced power to the rear wheel lets it suddenly regain traction, but now the bike's rear end is out of line with the front; the misaligned forces throw the bike over. Go frame by frame here ( , . keys) and watch the dynamics. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwlZiArfnYg Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 18:53 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 18:37
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The dog clutches in a bike gearbox indeed make a loud rattling noise when you misshift. If you're high in the revs in 2nd gear, and you kick it into first somehow, then you will first have the loud rattling noise, until the dogs engage, and then your rear wheel will lock up. But tbh, that's not something that happens on the regular. Chain failure is a scary one, as said by others. Don't skimp on tires. Blowouts have bigger consequences on bikes than in cars. I really can't understand why - but a coworker of mine went on a group ride with a rear tire so worn out, that you could see the fabric/weaving/threads. When i checked out his bike before the ride, i literally did not believe what i saw. Because it's so stupid that i couldn't imagine that someone would ride like that. But halfway through i rode behind him and it was clear that along 75% of the circumference, the threads were visible. I asked if he knew - he was fully aware of it but went riding regardless  And this is the 2nd time someone i knew, rides with tires worn to the threads. It's not a money thing, just lazyness and complacency. Never let 'omg i want to ride so bad' let you make bad decisions. Tank slappers/speed wobbles are a thing if you ride really fast. At low-ish speeds they dissipate very quickly. On my SV650s, i had a very mild one hitting a bump in the road on hard acceleration out of a corner, but that was just one single oscillation cycle. At higher speeds, they're nearly unavoidable, which is why many sports bikes of today have a steering damper. If they happen, get your centre of gravity as low as possible (chest on the tank) and do not use the brake. For some reason, no one ever taught me that during riding lessons. I'd assume this guy's doing 90ish MPH over a hump in the road, causing the front to get light and to get into a pretty bad tank slapper: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iU8NZoOrFHI LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Aug 12, 2021 |
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Aug 12, 2021 19:35
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Sagebrush posted:Yeah I'm going to say it was something like a mis-shift that popped into a different gear after he went up. Or maybe his chain is excessively loose and it skipped a tooth? Ah, I think you are right on the first point. He takes very good care of his chain. I've heard a gearbox slip down or between a gear. That's probably what happened. I would think the slipper clutch would have covered for it but he was going fast and if it dropped into first...yeah
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Aug 12, 2021 19:35
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On this topic: what happens if you hit an engine cutout switch without meaning to? Clutch engages as the engine cuts out?
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Aug 13, 2021 18:18
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nothing, you coast until you stop or turn it back on
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Aug 13, 2021 18:21
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Nothing happens to the clutch; it's not attached to the killswitch in any way. The engine just stops making power and the bike behaves like you slammed the throttle closed. If you have a carbureted bike and you turn off the killswitch while rolling and hold the throttle open, fuel will continue to be delivered as the wheels turn and the engine pumps air, but with no spark it will just pass through and end up in the exhaust. When you turn the switch back on, the hot exhaust gases will ignite this built up fuel with a tremendous bang. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlXVCVMr_pk This is fun but is also a good way to piss off your neighbors, attract the police, and blow your muffler to pieces so don't do it too much.
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Aug 13, 2021 18:29
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Thanks guys, this is one experiment I didn't want to do.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:04
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I went and looked at a bike today. It was a Yamaha FZ6 with ABS from 2006 with about 15.000 km on it. It looked really well taken care of and bone stock as far as I could tell. The seller liked me enough to offer a test ride after chatting for a bit. I was a bit apprehensive due to the power available but it was very mild mannered at the rev range where I kept it, very similar to the Honda CB600's I've ridden at the riding school. Just like the hornets I'm sure It's fast way beyond my skill level if given the beans in the power band. I never went there though since the ABS wasn't working. This seemed to surprise the seller greatly as the bike has been sitting since it passed the MOT-ish inspection not long ago. I told him to contact me if he figured out what was wrong with it and left it at that. Two Yamaha-related questions for those who know things: -When trying to provoke a front wheel skid to figure out if the ABS was truly inoperable, I managed to lift the rear wheel off the ground. I never managed to do this on the honda hornets even when braking at maximum from all sorts of speeds. Was this because I used no rear brake, going downhill ever so slightly, awesome tires/sticky tarmac, inoperable ABS, different chassis geometry from the hondas, bad posture, any combination of these factors or something else entirely? It took me by surprise since I've never done a stoppie before and I can't say I liked it much. -The tires on the bike (pilot road 3) looked almost unused, but they're not new. The date on them said 2017. How old is too old? Apart from the hard seat and broken ABS I really like the bike and would like to ride it more. Smooth engine, nice riding position (at least for a short ride), suspension and steering felt great, there's a center stand, it looks kind of neat from some angles I guess, it didn't feel too heavy or awkward or anything like that. It's way more bike than I need or necessarily want but there's a nerf kit available should I choose to go down that route. Also within my budget, cheap insurance etc. Not a model I had considered before I saw the ad but it was nearby and rave reviews from fans on the internet made me go check it out anyways. Also a BMW-question: Is the F650GS from the early aughts a P.O.S to be avoided or something to consider? Single cylinder so very unsmooth, but from what I hear easy to ride, mild mannered and practical. Also cheap. Also rumored to have lolBMW waterpump issues, head bearing issues, electrical gremlins and whatever else, but I figure if a nice example has survived for 20 years already it would probably survive another few years with me...?
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Aug 15, 2021 15:24
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An FZ6 is not a good beginners bike imho. If it's anything like my own fzr600 (they sound quite similar, though the old thing has carbs and the new one doesn't), they will pop power wheelies happily without much provocation. Although at 'car revs' it's a gentle as gently caress bike, if you happen to stray beyond that, it takes off way quicker than at least i myself would have been able to handle after getting my lessons on a CB500f which felt really fast at the time. I think you'll have more fun with a less powerful bike. Did you try any of the 300cc or 500cc class bikes? Tire discussions are a big can of worms to open. Soooo i have pilot road 3 front, 4 back on my sv650s. They last about 20.000km if you ride like a beginning motorcyclist, which i was when i got them. They are truly amazing in the wet and in weird conditions. I never knew why people were so bothered by dirty roads until i rode another bike with more sport-oriented tires. HOWEVER i can see the tiniest amount of dryness appear in my own pilot road 3 (storage condition: 50% inside, 50% outside). The faintest little hairline cracks in the 'walls' of the profile grooves are starting to appear. Not enough to worry about especially since it's close to being worn out, and it absolutely is still soft and grippy enough. But this does mean that if you get them now you really kinda wanna wear them out within 2 or 3 years. It varies per tire compound how well they age. A car driving friend of mine swears by michelin tires, but also notices that within 5 years you can see the first hairline cracks appear. The tires my bike came with when i bought them, were 10 and 15 years old, and those were absolutely not good anymore. Some people would still ride on them because they didn't have any cracks, but they had gotten very hard. So i'd say that between 5 and 10 years, there'll be a moment when you want to replace the tires just because of old age. Finally, pilot roads are the thing you buy when you have to ride in the rain. They're forgiving tires, quite good for a beginning rider, but at the same time i think if you get a sport bike, some slightly less commuter-oriented tires may be more fun. I think i'm gonna throw some Battlax's on my SV when the Pilots Roads are done. LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 16:12 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 15:56
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LimaBiker posted:An FZ6 is not a good beginners bike imho. If it's anything like my own fzr600 (they sound quite similar, though the old thing has carbs and the new one doesn't), they will pop power wheelies happily without much provocation. Although at 'car revs' it's a gentle as gently caress bike, if you happen to stray beyond that, it takes off way quicker than at least i myself would have been able to handle after getting my lessons on a CB500f which felt really fast at the time. I've only ever been on 125's and once on a 250 a long time ago, apart from a versys 650, the school's cb600's and the FZ6 I tried briefly today. The used marked for Japanese 300-500cc bikes with ABS at my price point where I live is poo poo. Any of them I can afford ATM are all orange. The rest are bigger bikes that have been nerfed for A2 compliance. The nerf kit for the FZ6 seems to be a simple throttle movement limiter BTW. But yes, smaller, lighter and reasonably powerful for a novice sounds good to me too.
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Aug 15, 2021 16:28
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Just get an orange one and sell it after 3000 miles.
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Aug 15, 2021 16:32
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There's a Duke 390 from 2014 with 15.000 km on it about two hours away that's well within budget. Looks like it would be loads of non-scary fun. Imma send the dude a message. Then Slavvy is gonna tell me I'm making a huge mistake and the Indian pot metal crankcase will grenade on me for sure or something.
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Aug 15, 2021 17:58
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Ryan from Fortnine also has opinions on getting a used 390, especially if it’s while you’re new to riding. He’d say get one that still has a good warranty or get something else so you can focus on learning how to ride and not worrying about what just broke.
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Aug 15, 2021 18:20
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Invalido posted:There's a Duke 390 from 2014 with 15.000 km on it about two hours away that's well within budget. Looks like it would be loads of non-scary fun. Imma send the dude a message. Then Slavvy is gonna tell me I'm making a huge mistake and the Indian pot metal crankcase will grenade on me for sure or something. You are, it will, still a much better idea than an f650 or fz6. 'I just won't rev it or use the power' is idiot newbie brain fantasy. That route always ends with you shrugging and using the power and then waking up in a tree, or spending a couple of years riding really slowly and badly while learning nothing. If it's got a throttle restrictor you're automatically doomed to the latter.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:36
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Don't buy an orange bike. My riding buddy has a Husky Vitpellen 401 and is trying to get rid of it after less than 6k miles. Last oil change was a glitter bomb and the oil screen had what looks like bearing chunks.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:44
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Carteret posted:Don't buy an orange bike. My riding buddy has a Husky Vitpellen 401 and is trying to get rid of it after less than 6k miles. Last oil change was a glitter bomb and the oil screen had what looks like bearing chunks. I'm pleased that common understanding on the 390 is starting to line up with what I've always known, it makes me feel less crazy!
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Aug 15, 2021 19:48
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Yeah, I don't want the FZ6. That thing will bite my head off and I'll be too scared of it to have fun and learn. I also don't want something that will break, or something I'll always worry will break. I guess it's probably gonna be an ER6 after all unless I get lucky and find something smaller that fits the bill.
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Aug 15, 2021 19:49
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Invalido posted:Yeah, I don't want the FZ6. That thing will bite my head off and I'll be too scared of it to have fun and learn. I also don't want something that will break, or something I'll always worry will break. Noooo don't do this, I don't know you but I still know you deserve better. Can you get a cb400 where you are?
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Aug 15, 2021 19:52
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Perhaps try to find something dualsport-y? Or the aforementioned CB(f)500. Maybe do a cursory search for a Hyosung? The ER6 is already a slightly better plan than the FZ6, because the 2 cylinder engine will likely be much less peaky. 90ish versus 70ish HP also makes a significant difference. However, it is still a bike that gets from 0 to 100km/h in around 4 seconds. ER6 (the ones without fairing) and SV650 are used as riding school bikes these days, for the full power license tier. But that means you'll be doing about 30 hours of training on them, including hard acceleration and braking drills. Take your time to search for something that fits you. I love my fzr600, but if i had the choice i would've gotten a 400cc bike LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 19:52
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Slavvy posted:Noooo don't do this, I don't know you but I still know you deserve better. Better how, exactly? (I've never tried an ER6, is it bad because it sucks or because it will kill me?) I can get a cb400 from 1982. I'm still resolved to get something with ABS (slightly less firm on fuel injection) so that's no good. LimaBiker posted:Perhaps try to find something dualsport-y? The dualsporty thing more or less means a f650GS at my current budget. Hyosung means a 650 without ABS which is what I'm trying to avoid I've just finished the full power licence tier training in about 30 hours, including hard acceleration and braking drills and swerve drills and slalom drills and hooning around a gokart track and bunch of low speed drills, except my riding school had honda cb600's. I can ride one of those safely and well enough to pass with some margin but nowhere near "well", which I guess is the problem I'd like to get away from without dying. I suppose I could just not buy a bike this year, save up more money and get a Japanese A2 class bike like a CB500 come spring. Very sad if so, possibly very smart.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:30
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Get that 82 CB400.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:32
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Steakandchips posted:Get that 82 CB400. If there were any within striking distance I'd go have a look. Sadly all three I can find right now are quite a ways away and one of them looks way too nice and the seller wants real money for it. I'd rather have a beater regardless of what I end up with honestly. I guess the smart thing is to be patient, keep looking for a Good Bike, borrow my brother's versys 650 every now and then and ignore my aching heart that wants to ride everywhere every day all the time because motorcycles are THE BEST MOST FUN THING EVER.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:54
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Invalido posted:Better how, exactly? (I've never tried an ER6, is it bad because it sucks or because it will kill me?) An er6 is roughly on a par with an fz6 except it feels heavier (I've never checked how heavy they are but the Kawasaki has that 80's pig iron feel to it) and the torque is much more immediate, I'd take the fz instead. If you're married to abs you would be much, much better off on a 3-500cc bike like an mt03, cb500, ninja 300, orange 390 etcetera If you absolutely have to get a nerfed 650, at least get the lightest and friendliest available and go for an SV. I'm of the (unpopular) opinion that the value of abs is overstated and just locks you out of a bunch of great bikes, which are no doubt cheaper as well because of everyone else thinking the same thing. It really isn't that big a deal, tyres and skill have far more influence on whether you crash and die. Like get it if you can there's no drawback but it really shouldn't be a deal breaker. You could also get a big fast abs scooter to build some skills in the meantime and get the right motorbike in a year's time or whatever.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:01
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My biggest advice from recently getting a bike is to sit on as many as reasonable to get a feel for how your body actually interfaces with the bike. The er6 and N650s have a nice and low seat height but also has a more cramped feetpeg distance depending on your inseam as a result.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:24
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Me being married to the ABS idea is partly how I (possibly erroneously) interpret accident statistics, partly because all my training has been on ABS bikes and I haven't learned how to brake properly without it. I'm confident I could learn this skill, and on something like an old cb400 the prospect of learning doesn't feel intimidating. I'm less confident that I could remember how to do it properly in a panic situation if one should ever arise - being able to just grab all the brakes in terror seems like a Very Good Thing, but I'm a newbie so what the hell do I know.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:24
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Invalido posted:Me being married to the ABS idea is partly how I (possibly erroneously) interpret accident statistics, partly because all my training has been on ABS bikes and I haven't learned how to brake properly without it. I'm confident I could learn this skill, and on something like an old cb400 the prospect of learning doesn't feel intimidating. I'm less confident that I could remember how to do it properly in a panic situation if one should ever arise - being able to just grab all the brakes in terror seems like a Very Good Thing, but I'm a newbie so what the hell do I know. If you're consistently activating the ABS when you apply the brakes you haven't learned to brake properly, like at all.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:33
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Don't know if you have considered something like a Honda CB500X. It's a quick enough bike that's really versatile too and comes with ABS.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:34
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Invalido posted:Me being married to the ABS idea is partly how I (possibly erroneously) interpret accident statistics, partly because all my training has been on ABS bikes and I haven't learned how to brake properly without it. I'm confident I could learn this skill, and on something like an old cb400 the prospect of learning doesn't feel intimidating. I'm less confident that I could remember how to do it properly in a panic situation if one should ever arise - being able to just grab all the brakes in terror seems like a Very Good Thing, but I'm a newbie so what the hell do I know. Ok so there's two elements to this. The first part is learning the skill - the best way is a small light bike you don't care about too much. If you do it right you aren't likely to fall off, but if you do you really want it to be a shitbike so there's no remorse or wallet damage. The second part is using the skill. The hypothetical situation you described also has two parts - braking to avoid a collision is the second part, avoiding the bad situation to begin with is the first. Abs helps you stop, it doesn't prevent you putting the bike in a bonehead place, not looking etc. Basically a truly skilled rider rarely needs their skills because the first layer of protection is judgement. What you find with consistent practice and mindful application of skill and judgment, emergency braking stops being an emergency. As in, Karen in the range rover lurches through a stop sign and instead of your brain going "OMG this is an *~EMERGENCY~*" and panicking, you instead just brake automatically as hard as you need to, because the bike has become integrated with your thinking and you're not thinking of braking, steering etc as individual actions to be done manually. In general, crash protection is like an onion. The outer layer is judgment, the second is skill, the third is equipment (abs/tyres/suspension), the fourth is riding gear for when the other layers have failed. Like has been said, if you're triggering the abs constantly you are braking super badly.
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Aug 15, 2021 21:41
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Midjack posted:If you're consistently activating the ABS when you apply the brakes you haven't learned to brake properly, like at all. This is the way they train riders, sadly. Probably the dumbest part of the education imo. The inspector from the DOT can't tell if ABS is activated or not, only whether it's effective braking with a controlled posture, so the schools don't encourage you to learn anything about braking beyond what you need to pass. It is a for-profit license mill after all. Doesn't mean I haven't been practicing and will keep practicing.
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Aug 15, 2021 22:09
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Slavvy posted:the best way is a small light bike you don't care about too much. If you do it right you aren't likely to fall off, but if you do you really want it to be a shitbike so there's no remorse or wallet damage. Emptyquoting this for eternity Don’t be me. Follow this advice.
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Aug 15, 2021 22:52
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If you can get a 300-400-500cc bike with ABS, but have to save up for that for a year, i would recommend doing that. I absolutely prefer having ABS. It is much easier to learn to properly brake, if you have no risk of wiping out when you 'lock up' (read: make ABS work) the front. If the ABS engages, then you know you haven't been subtle enough. I don't have ABS and i'm still alive, but doing my training on a bike with ABS made it easier to learn how weight transfer (and the time that it costs) influences the grip and the available brake force. I have no idea how powerful those bmw f650 things are. I'd wager that those aren't too bad, especially if you've done your lessons on a powerful-ish bike. But i have never been on one so ymmv. I'd shy away from the 1982 bike. Handling and braking wise, it may be too far away from the sort of bikes you plan to spend most of your life on. It would absolutely be a lot of fun, but only get it if it's cheap enough to still be able to get the bike you actually wanted later. LimaBiker fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 23:21
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Carteret posted:Don't buy an orange bike. I remember Kawi kicking out the 2000s z750 and 1000 in orange Also not good first bikes of course
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Aug 16, 2021 06:01
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Re the 82 400, it's better he rides than doesn't ride. Get it, ride it, sell it when you can afford something newer.
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Aug 16, 2021 06:48
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LimaBiker posted:I have no idea how powerful those bmw f650 things are. I'd wager that those aren't too bad, especially if you've done your lessons on a powerful-ish bike. But i have never been on one so ymmv. Ah yes, the BMW:  Built between 2000-2008. Single cylinder four-valve with 50 hp. 5-speed gearbox. The fuel goes in the seat and the "tank" holds the dry sump oil reservoir, really low CG. They weigh in at 175/192 kilograms dry/wet according to wikipedia, 185 wet according to the Swedish DOT. There's also a less common more off-roady "Dakar" version with larger wheels and taller suspension. Invalido fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 07:52
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50hp is a reasonable amount for an inexperienced rider, i'd say. The A2 class are considered ideal learner bikes and they have just 5hp less. I have no idea at all if the bmw is any good fun/quality/handling wise, but at least power wise it won't get you in trouble.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:21
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Martytoof, explain to Invalido about riding a Ninja 650 as a newer rider.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:14
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Invalido, if you want to live up to your forum handle, get the ninja 650.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:19
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HenryJLittlefinger posted:Martytoof, explain to Invalido about riding a Ninja 650 as a newer rider. I wholeheartedly suggest starting on something smaller to avoid my mistakes but I’ll explain a little why in my own words: - It’s heavy. My point of comparison is a Ninja 250. If I do drop it, that’s 100+ lbs I need to pick up. If it falls on me, that’s 100+ lbs that is going to be applied to my leg or arm or whatever. At speed I think it’s not too awful to get it to lean or turn or whatever but it definitely feels chonkier than the Ninja 250. When you’re trying to build confidence I’m pretty sure this is working against you, or at least not making it as easy as it could be. - It’s really grabby in 1st and 2nd gear. This makes it kind of unforgiving to small throttle movements. On the 250 I could “whoopsie” my wrist by like, 1/4 and it would take a second and even then the bike would just kind of lurch forward. On the 650 in 1st or 2nd gear if I “whoopsie” the throttle it definitely kicks me back. If I do the opposite and release too quickly the engine braking is pretty quick to push me forward. - The torque you get is probably not ideal for learning to micro-control your vehicle. Like I said above, it’s super grabby in 1st and 2nd and generally very torque-y so you need to be really good at being smooth. This is probably something you can learn over time but someone starting out probably needs one less factor to worry about. - My specific problem was also that I bought mine new and despite saying out loud “yeah I don’t care if I drop it, that’s part of the learning process”, I haven’t been able to make myself take the risk of scratching a beautiful (to me) bike. Of all the things above it’s held me back the most, I think. If you’re not buying new or buying a beat up N650 or you aren’t the kind of person who cares about whether there’s a scratch or dent or two this may not apply to you. Oh and also - It’s really buzzy. This isn’t a newbie thing but it’s basically a paint shaker. I think a Ninja 400 with ABS would be a much better starter platform. Also Ninja 300 if you can find one, and then maybe look at R3s or something like that? I don’t know what a better suggestion would be if you’re married to ABS but I mean, wholeheartedly I am on a crusade to keep people from starting out on a big(ger) bike for various reasons, mainly because I am 100% a byproduct of thinking “I can handle it” and then not being able to. This is just me jotting down notes between a meeting. I'm happy to talk about my poor life choices otherwise. some kinda jackal fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 17:58
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Invalido posted:Ah yes, the BMW: The f650 sucks rear end as a thing to own, they are unpleasant to work on and not particularly reliable in my experience. They also have an absolutely dismal riding experience, that probably doesn't matter that much but combined with general bmw ickyness, just don't. Get a japanese bike.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:41
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Thank you all for the guidance. I don't want to make a regretful decision here. I'm sure I could live with the BMW but equally sure there's a better bike for me out there. Good news! There's a 2014 ninja 300 like ten minutes away that is sort of within budget. It's been sportified with rear footpegs and clipon steering and a smoked windscreen and an aftermarket exhaust and whatever else, but it seems like the original parts are still with the bike. The ad doesn't specify ABS (which must be why I haven't seen it sooner since it's an older ad) but I can clearly see the perforated rings and sensors in the pictures. I'll go check it out for sure if the guy cooperates.
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Aug 16, 2021 21:14
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