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Wibla posted:Lets not forget that we're talking about the US Navy, the same group of chucklefucks who haven't figured out how to run a reasonable watch schedule on their overmanned boats even in the year of our lord 2021. In what loving world is a Navy ship 'overmanned'?
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Aug 16, 2021 01:30
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Well you see, these cargo boats are mostly automated....
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Aug 16, 2021 01:40
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He had to have meant undermanned. USNS can operate only because they have barely any requirements for routine maintenance, don’t drill what seemed like more than once a month, don’t have combat systems and people can literally quit whenever. Hell I never saw one dude sweep the entire year on a ship anything but the galley floor. That shits for navy sailors and nationals in port.
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Aug 16, 2021 01:41
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Crab Dad posted:Hell I never saw one dude sweep the entire year on a ship anything but the galley floor. How that ship stayed afloat,  will never know
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Aug 16, 2021 01:56
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Yeah that was a clear gaffe on my part, should teach me how not to post when I should be sleeping. My first impression looking at that GAO report is that you're trying to run more boats than you can afford to, and it's a wonder you haven't lost entire ships in the process of trying to do so.
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Aug 16, 2021 02:08
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piL posted:-I expect at a higher proportion than commercial Sailors for whom commercial shipping companies are likely to divest themselves of if they have a ship not getting underway for a period of time. A properly run merchant ship should stop for maintenance for about two weeks out of every five years. (Baring seasonal shut downs like in the Great Lakes) Most other maintenance you’d do during cargo ops, which, on a properly run ship, should account for roughly 20-30% of the asset’s time, congestion excluded. Boats don’t make money sitting in port (well yeah they do but not as much as if they were… ok I’m geeking out) McNally posted:I'd imagine that's a question for the Coast Guard thread It’s related to what pil was saying about how the Coast Guard as a regulatory agency counts sea time for former navy personnel. Basically the coast guard regulates how former navy people can be civilian mariners.
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Aug 16, 2021 02:08
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FrozenVent posted:A properly run merchant ship should stop for maintenance for about two weeks out of every five years. (Baring seasonal shut downs like in the Great Lakes) That's a good point. Edit: gently caress, I also hate when I write like that--I think that was all my posts today.
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Aug 16, 2021 02:52
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FrozenVent posted:A properly run merchant ship should stop for maintenance for about two weeks out of every five years. (Baring seasonal shut downs like in the Great Lakes) Dumb question, but how does a boat make money sitting in port? I'm scratching my head here trying to think of a way, and the only way I can think is if the owners of the cargo are charged per day their stuff is on the boat rather than offloaded.
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Aug 16, 2021 10:41
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Pikehead posted:Dumb question, but how does a boat make money sitting in port? I'm scratching my head here trying to think of a way, and the only way I can think is if the owners of the cargo are charged per day their stuff is on the boat rather than offloaded. The cargo owner either pays per day if it’s a time charter, or more commonly they’re allowed a certain amount of time to load and unload the cargo, after which they get charged demurrage. If they don’t use all their allotted time, the shipowner will credit them despatch (usually at half the demurrage rate). This includes the time the ship is sitting at anchor due to e.g berth congestion. In a falling shipping market you don’t mind having a boat sitting somewhere on demurrage. If the market is rising, you’d much rather get your boat back quickly so you can get the next cargo onboard. (Demurrage bills also have a tendency to piss off the cargo owner which isn’t great if they’re a long time client)
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Aug 16, 2021 12:19
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FrozenVent posted:The cargo owner either pays per day if it’s a time charter, or more commonly they’re allowed a certain amount of time to load and unload the cargo, after which they get charged demurrage. If they don’t use all their allotted time, the shipowner will credit them despatch (usually at half the demurrage rate). This includes the time the ship is sitting at anchor due to e.g berth congestion. That's interesting, thanks. What happens if you have cargo on the Ever Given? Throw your hands up and speak to your lawyers? Also, what happens if (like during the end of last year) when you have ships at anchor outside a port because it's full and there's no way to unload?
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Aug 16, 2021 14:07
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Pikehead posted:What happens if you have cargo on the Ever Given? Throw your hands up and speak to your lawyers? Thats… complicated. Ever Given is a liner so the cargo owners (there’s a few dozen thousands of them) don’t have a charter party with the ship. The ship itself is under a whole chain of time charters, but that doesn’t stop just because the ship is being held by authorities (ish, there could be a case there). In theory as a cargo owner you’d basically be SOL. In this case they declared general average though so lol call your cargo insurance. If the Ever Given had been a bulk carrier with a load of gravel, the cargo owner would still have been SOL, since there’s no expressed guarantee of delivery in any common CP or bills of lading, only a warranty of due diligence before and at the commencement of the voyage. Ship sunk? Too bad so sad, call your cargo insurance. Ship stuck in Egypt? Too bad, call your cargo insurance. In that case though the owner of the bulker would also be SOL, because it’s a delay in transit and out of the charterer’s control so they’d have to eat it (basically their revenue for those days goes to zero but their operating expenses keep accumulating) Pikehead posted:Also, what happens if (like during the end of last year) when you have ships at anchor outside a port because it's full and there's no way to unload? If it’s a ship under a voyage charter - bulk carrier, tanker, general cargo - the ship would be on demurrage once the laytime clock runs out. For liners like container ships they’re usually on time charter, but the container line might also have an agreement with the terminals that include some demurrage options. Container ships are a loving contractual nightmare, give me 30,000 tons of bauxite any day of the week instead.
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Aug 16, 2021 14:28
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Tankers make money sitting around if they are being used for floating storage while gas prices fluctuate as well. Matson has been killing it since they invested in terminals on the west coast and China and have a two week guarantee or something for moving cargo China > USWC. One of the big problems is the delay in terminal operations which was at like 5ish? days last I checked. They also have guarantees with Safeway and Target for Honolulu, AK, and Guam because if the ship is delayed, stores have empty shelves so on time arrival, as well as rounds of the reefer boxes on board, trump everything. Most other shipping companies are utilizing flexible schedules and slow steaming to reduce fuel costs and increase predictability but Matson is running flat out all the time. Speaking of which, time to go back tomorrow. Labor market is empty and noone wants to sail on 40 year old ships so they called the bottom of the barrel.
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Aug 16, 2021 15:28
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I sailed on a 51.9 year old ship, it was old.
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Aug 16, 2021 15:35
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lightpole posted:Tankers make money sitting around if they are being used for floating storage while gas prices fluctuate as well. You’d usually do that kind of business on a time charter though. (Although some shipowners will buy crude FOB then shop it around on the market but that’s a whole different headache).
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Aug 16, 2021 15:45
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orange juche posted:I sailed on a 51.9 year old ship, it was old. Hopefully it was USN. You would have the silver lining of not having to deal with MSA and port state while your generators are more like an oil fountain. Was it steam? Diesel ships are struggling with the new fuel specs lightpole fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 15:51
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When you're a lifer gently caress, but have way more than mere V6 Mustang money: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/59-Sawmill-Ln-Greenwich-CT-06830/57313507_zpid/
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Aug 16, 2021 17:30
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Madurai posted:When you're a lifer gently caress, but have way more than mere V6 Mustang money: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/59-Sawmill-Ln-Greenwich-CT-06830/57313507_zpid/ What, it's no different from any other McMansion you can... wait... <scrolls back up> 
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Aug 16, 2021 17:40
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Oh wow, that was not what I was expecting
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Aug 16, 2021 18:00
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No knee-knockers, though-- 0/10 total lack of commitment.
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Aug 16, 2021 19:41
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Madurai posted:No knee-knockers, though-- 0/10 total lack of commitment. Was gonna say, yeah.
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Aug 16, 2021 21:17
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Stultus Maximus posted:What, it's no different from any other McMansion you can... wait... <scrolls back up> Is it really a McMansion if it was built in 193... WHAT THE gently caress? That room is disgusting as well as amazing.
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Aug 18, 2021 01:33
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https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/p604x4/so_im_going_to_mast_for_a_respirator/ OP got masted for using a division respirator instead of signing another one out. Last post was “about to go see the CO in one hour but I’m sure they’ll not treat me unjustly” yesterday. RIP
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Aug 18, 2021 18:28
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Best comment:quote:I would just plan on not reenlisting
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Aug 18, 2021 18:44
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/p604x4/so_im_going_to_mast_for_a_respirator/ Zero chance my guy didn't have it coming for something else.
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Aug 18, 2021 19:35
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I saw this exact scenario play out just because the command said they were going to make an example about gun decking, one of the deck sailors was about to get out. “He had it coming” in the sense he just wasn’t thrilled about being a deck seaman so some people said he had a bad attitude but he never broke the rules or did dumb poo poo. Lol that SWOs and chiefs railroading a random sailor sounds implausible.
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Aug 19, 2021 01:26
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SquirrelyPSU posted:Zero chance my guy didn't have it coming for something else. One thousand percent this. If he was "caught" after the fact, then it was almost certainly a spot check, and would have been a "training opportunity" to anyone but the most stick-up-their-rear end spot checker.. I'm struggling to come up with a plausible scenario where he was caught red-handed, because in that case, "Hey Timmy, get a loving respirator!" In deployment news, a 15-year E-5 just emailed me asking who she should go to for training/signatures for her OOD-in-port PQS. Well, me and every other E-6 on the ship and every E-5 just for good measure. Email distros sure are a thing!
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Aug 19, 2021 09:16
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Yeah, either this guy has been caught gundecking things before, or the command has been having a huge issue with certain divisions just keeping "Divisional" items (like respirators or harnesses) that they should not be keeping. Even with that last point, you don't go after the sailor (not typically). You go after the DIVO, Chief, and LPO. Mr. Bad Guy, a 15 year E-5 that doesn't have an OOD in port? Was she shoreside her whole career at places that didn't need them? poo poo, I've seen ambitious E-4s get their OOD in port.
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Aug 19, 2021 10:28
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Frankly, I find that attitude really gross having been on receiving end of it. Punish people for what they actually did wrong, don’t justify hammering junior sailors with some vague “well I’m sure they did it before” or “they had it coming.”
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Aug 19, 2021 12:32
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Frankly, I find that attitude really gross having been on receiving end of it. Punish people for what they actually did wrong, don’t justify hammering junior sailors with some vague “well I’m sure they did it before” or “they had it coming.” I wasn't trying to assign morals to it. I was remarking on my own personal experiences with 3M, respirator check-out and spot checks to remark that I cannot find a scenario where someone gets sent to mast for respirator sign-out gundecking. Picking the lock to the safety office to get one...maybe? That said, I did have the JAG tell me one time that, after consulting with the XO, I wasn't going to be sent to mast for failing to identify that someone playing with a zippo at 2AM in the shipyards was about to start a fire, so I'm probably not in the running to be All-Navy Arbitrator. SquirrelyPSU fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 12:44
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There is no way that guy is going to mast just for using a division respirator instead of checking one out. First, shouldn't all respirators be owned by someone? IIRC, deck owned the respirator program on both past ships I was on. This was done to ensure that respirators always had the correct filters, had proper pms done on them, etc. There is no reason afaik that the division should have had a respirator. That means that someone checked one out and never returned it. They've hosed up someone else's property books on the ship by keeping a 'division respirator' so they didn't have to go back aft to check one out first. Starting from that thought, everything he says sounds like horseshit. This has junior sailor only telling half the story written all over it. If the respirator really is the only issue, then it's certainly because the division wasn't supposed to have one, has probably been chewed out for it by BM1 or BM2 for losing a respirator already, and the ship probably had to order some more or get dinged in some way for the missing gear from deck.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:31
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Fair enough it’s certainly possible if not likely that OP hid some important detail but he clarified a bunch and I saw what seems to be the exact same scenario play out before my own eyes. A guy got njp’ed his last two months before EAOS because he had to stop maintenance right in the middle of the process to go to medical, made some kind of error in how that was documented, was told that it would be no big deal since it was an honest mistake, and then was slammed anyway. He didn’t do anything that would warrant that save for the fact he was obviously happy to be getting out and didn’t like being in the Navy.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:38
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Fair enough it’s certainly possible if not likely that OP hid some important detail but he clarified a bunch and I saw what seems to be the exact same scenario play out before my own eyes. A guy got njp’ed his last two months before EAOS because he had to stop maintenance right in the middle of the process to go to medical, made some kind of error in how that was documented, was told that it would be no big deal since it was an honest mistake, and then was slammed anyway. He didn’t do anything that would warrant that save for the fact he was obviously happy to be getting out and didn’t like being in the Navy. I'm just saying there are a few things I know of that are major dings in a spot check from both the side of the dude doing the maintenance and the person doing the spot checking. If the MRC requires that you check out gear/equipment/hazmat for a spot check, and you have the items but did not check them out, there is a major problem. Don't think of this as 'mast for using a divisional respirator' think of it as if he had been keeping a divisional tube of various hazmat in division spaces in just a wall locker instead of a hazmat storage locker. This is the same situation, and this is not a first time issue with either this sailor or his division if he's gone through DRB and XOI.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:46
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https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/p604x4/so_im_going_to_mast_for_a_respirator/ I mean unless he’s straight up lying about to the story it looks like he did exactly what he was told to do based on the instructions he was provided. The problem is probably with the way his WCS is running things.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:52
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/p604x4/so_im_going_to_mast_for_a_respirator/ I don't know how to see all of his comments. I don't know how to work reddit. All I can see is he says he did not check out a respirator. Maybe his WCS did set him up for failure, but I can assure you that he went through training at least once that told him 'you must go to X to check out a respirator for maintenance' after doing a fit and figuring out what size the person wears. A "divisional respirator" is not going to be fitted for the person so it may or may not be the right size. The filter cartridges haven't been replaced and are probably nonfunctional. There are a lot of problems with it, and whoever is the air quality control person on the ship is probably rightfully pissed they've been missing a respirator for a long time. This guy is playing naive, but this isn't a cut and dry 'someone else hosed me' situation so much as it is he's done something to gently caress himself and isn't being clear with us.
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Aug 19, 2021 14:00
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SMEGMA_MAIL posted:Frankly, I find that attitude really gross having been on receiving end of it. Punish people for what they actually did wrong, don’t justify hammering junior sailors with some vague “well I’m sure they did it before” or “they had it coming.” Its a poor idea because its arbitrary and based on an unclear standard. The reason for punishment, corrective action for future incidents, is lost. Others will also see it as unfair and its a net negative, even if done to someone that might deserve it. The best way to build a high performing team is trust and thats pretty hard to develop without applying the same standards to everyone equally. Almost thought I was going to be stuck here for the next 2 days changing out a ME LO pump. Luckily it was just the relief valve.
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Aug 19, 2021 14:33
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Ask for sea lawyer advice on Reddit: get recommended to demand trial by court-martial.
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Aug 19, 2021 15:03
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several people did lol
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Aug 19, 2021 15:05
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Mr. Nice! posted:I don't know how to see all of his comments. I don't know how to work reddit. All I can see is he says he did not check out a respirator. The Redditor indicates that the -R MRC requirement for the respirator was completed by his shop. I would assume that is the filter replacement. Which indicates that their chain of command, at least up to their Div-O, and anyone else reviewing their 13 week reports is aware that they have a respirator and are using it.
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Aug 19, 2021 15:27
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IncredibleIgloo posted:The Redditor indicates that the -R MRC requirement for the respirator was completed by his shop. I would assume that is the filter replacement. Which indicates that their chain of command, at least up to their Div-O, and anyone else reviewing their 13 week reports is aware that they have a respirator and are using it. Filter replacement depends entirely on use. For some uses, filters have to be changed out every few hours. The standard check of a respirator isn't going to be about replacing a filter. It's going to be inspecting for damage and ensuring that it actually works. I guarantee the poster is not going to mast for using a piece of equipment that he was supposed to be using. He is definitely leaving out details, and the thing that personally jumps out to me is that his division did not own the respirator and should not have had it.
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Aug 19, 2021 15:31
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Maybe he got caught in a fuckup parade. My first mast was because I was taking a nap in the torpedo locker when I was on firewatch to watch welders work. Only my welders had gone to lunch and wouldn't be back for hours. The first class who caught me a turd chaser named Gallee who later apologized for reporting it since he didn't actually want me to go to mast for it. However at the same time three deck seaman stole a couple of credit cards and went on a shopping spree. We were still living in the hotels at the time since the Howard was only about 80% done, so of course the dipshits got caught. I got off light, fortunately.
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Aug 19, 2021 15:44
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