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I'm fine with the choice to go with limited rosters, but I am disappointed in the shortcomings the standard factions have compared to the Octarius boys. Sure, they have a whole separate booklet dedicated to two teams, but I feel like it wouldn't have taken too much effort to give everyone Faction-specific objectives.
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Aug 14, 2021 21:10
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as much as Adam talked about how expensive it is to get the books I can't help but feel that it will be significantly cheaper to get the models together for the actual kill team the list building does seem a little boring for the compendium rosters but that might not be too bad if the actual game itself is interesting enough
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Aug 14, 2021 22:26
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I think the thing that has me the most salty is that the new fire team rule meaning only 2 kinds of units per kill team basically tanked my existing Necron kill team (the one I cared about the most) which had Immortals, Flayed Ones, a Deathmark, and a Warrior. I can’t even salvage elements of the team I’ve got, it’s just dead.  At least buying the Sisters Combat Patrol box gives me options for a Sisters Kill Team (which was the whole reason I bought the box), and I should be able to salvage my old AdMech kill team into something useable. Unless I was misunderstanding the video I was watching, AdMech can take fireteams of Rangers, Vanguard, or Sicarians; does that mean the Sicarian Fireteam can mix and match Ruststalkers and Infiltrators? Because my old team was based around having 3 Infiltrators and 2 Ruststalkers, so those are the minis I’ve got.
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Aug 14, 2021 23:19
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I pre-ordered from Element Games, and while it was significantly cheaper, gee-dubs may be sending the stock for third-party retailers out later than folks who paid the toll to order straight from gee-dubs' store. Ah, well.
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Aug 15, 2021 00:24
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I know people are split on the new, more restrictive KT compositions, but under the new rules I just went from having 3 bad killteams to having 5 presumably good ones.
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Aug 15, 2021 05:09
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Now I think about it, I seem to recall that the original kill team from 4th edition you had to select from one unit, didn't you? The mix and match was only something that came about in the last edition.
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Aug 15, 2021 12:34
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Der Waffle Mous posted:They made kill teams balanced around the exact contents of a box or two of basic infantry instead of the meta encouraging you to break open $50 squad boxes for a single mini and sourcing extra wargear from eBay and this is bad for reasons. I understand that they are trying to fix the accessibility problem by designing the game around Kill Team specific, prepackaged teams, and not the entire roster of 40k models - Much like Warhammer Underworlds does. However, that still leaves the game extremely bland for a while until more of these bespoke Kill Teams comes out. At the moment you only have two of those, with the entire rest of the factions being reduced to extremely bland Compendium lists which allow for almost no customization, and are almost universally just a collection of stats with no rules. Also, I play KT with a group of friends from high school. Everyone uses their ~20 year old ca 3rd edition 40k models; None of these guys have touched miniature gaming since they were teens, until we got into KT a few years ago. None of these guys paint today. None of these guys are going to buy and paint one of the new bespoke Kill Teams. So... I have faith that KTv2 will be cool once there is more variety, but at the same time, it just isn't for me or my group. Which is fine! There comes a point in every gamer's life where he becomes a weird old grog who sticks to a beloved old edition of a game, and now is that time for me.
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Aug 15, 2021 13:03
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I have the old kill team boxes, and plenty of terrain, I think it makes more sense to buy the core rule book than the new box. But I really want the new gangs…
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Aug 15, 2021 13:23
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I actually prefer when choices at the table are weighed heavier than pre-game, but I'm also a historicals weirdo who loves games with prescribed forces.
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Aug 15, 2021 13:43
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I really like the idea of Kill team ACTUALLY being a "buy 2 boxes" deal like it was promised, but I wanna see if my games club takes it up to any degree first. I have the models for a Necron kill team, at any rate!
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Aug 15, 2021 15:53
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I'm assuming that if it can survive GW business decisions, it'll be a niche classic. That's every Specialist Game, though. There's usually a decade between launch and "oh gently caress I'm going to be playing off a three-ring binder of printouts because the book's inaccessible," this one might be totally DOA.
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Aug 15, 2021 16:31
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It's 40K related, so it's going to sell. As long as GW makes a profit, they're going to be happy. I'm going out on a limb here, but IMO the only potential "failure" in recent history might be Aeronautica Imperialis. Something like Pariah Nexus might be considered a failure in the game system sense, but I'm sure they sold a ton of them just for the models, so GW probably sees it as a success. The new GW business model seems to be built on big splash releases and DLC, and judging by their numbers, it's working out pretty well for them, so they're going to keep at it while it's profitable. Personally, I'm getting tired of the planned obsolescence aspect - I know it was always a thing with GW, but now the turnaround is so fast, I'm far more cognizant of the money that I'm constantly dumping. I understand that they have to keep the game fresh and that they are business and they need to make money, but a three year cycle is too quick for a lot of my investment in the game to be rotated out - and that's if it makes it to three years. WHU has a two year cycle, so that and not being able to play an entire season because of covid have pretty much killed all my interest in the game at this point, which sucks, because I actually do like the game. I would just really like to see some semblance of balance in the games, and instead of a new edition every 3 years with army book rotations, break it up some with special campaign books, and extend the life of the product a little longer. I know it'll never happen because it's not as profitable, but it's what I'd like to see. It's kind of why I consider 6th edition Warhammer fantasy battle to be a golden age - the majority of the army books were relatively balanced, the rules were good, and there was a ton of supplemental material. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Aug 15, 2021 |
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Aug 15, 2021 16:59
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berzerkmonkey posted:It's 40K related, so it's going to sell. As long as GW makes a profit, they're going to be happy. I'm going out on a limb here, but IMO the only potential "failure" in recent history might be Aeronautica Imperialis.
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Aug 15, 2021 17:40
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Xenomrph posted:I like Aeronautica quite a bit. There are a lot of people who do. I think the planes are cool, albeit overpriced, but I'm not a fan of the game itself, and most of my issues arise from me thinking the play area is way too small. That being said, I did put "failure" in quotes because I don't think it's the financial success they were hoping for, even though it does have its adherents.
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Aug 15, 2021 18:33
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berzerkmonkey posted:It's 40K related, so it's going to sell. As long as GW makes a profit, they're going to be happy. I'm going out on a limb here, but IMO the only potential "failure" in recent history might be Aeronautica Imperialis. I agree that it'll sell, and from that perspective it'll be a success - I just don't think it'll enjoy much traction or staying power with its $120 buy-in. The game looks great, but everybody's carping about the $50 compendium and shape measurement. I've seen my group go from hyped to bitter over the last weeks, so maybe that's coloring my forecast.
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Aug 15, 2021 20:16
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moths posted:I agree that it'll sell, and from that perspective it'll be a success - I just don't think it'll enjoy much traction or staying power with its $120 buy-in. The game looks great, but everybody's carping about the $50 compendium and shape measurement. Because that's so much more than kill team core + elites + commanders + arena + time on eBay finding 8 plasma gunners for your guard
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Aug 15, 2021 20:39
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I'd probably even be personally satisfied of the veteran guard stats were available outside the box, but apparently not! That's likely what I'd build (first) anyway.
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Aug 15, 2021 22:41
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Important kill team question: has anyone coined the term CONspendium yet?
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Aug 15, 2021 23:15
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Booley posted:Because that's so much more than kill team core + elites + commanders + arena + time on eBay finding 8 plasma gunners for your guard Here's the thing: if you already play 40k or KT or SWA, you already have those (or access to them.) "Hey we unfucked the rules, that'll be $120" just doesn't sound good. You can't reason it into an appealing prospect. People aren't logically assessing the weight of value, they're watching YouTube reviews where a guy makes a somber frowny face.
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Aug 16, 2021 00:11
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I'm a bit disappointed with the direction for Kill Team in terms of force composition, but from a hobby angle; I really wish GW would release a set of skirmish rules more akin to the old specialist games like Inquisitor or Mordheim, where there was a less of an expectation for even balance and more opportunities to get really wild with what a warband consisted of. The number of clearly optimal choices in this new edition (there's no reason to take anything other than a plasma pistol and power sword for Imperial Guard sergeants, for instance, and Death Watch veterans should always have a power sword and bolter instead of just a bolter) directly incentivizes a sort of maximalist approach to roster building, and if you were approaching things from more of a "what would look cool" direction, it's a bit of a disappointment. I spent a bunch of time kitbashing Death Watch guys who aren't really geared optimally, but in more of a fluff/aesthetic direction, and would now need to be proxied in order to actually see play, for example. I'm also a bit disappointed that the two other Kill Teams I've built just don't have rules now; I have some Elucidian Starstriders primed and ready to paint and a completed Servants of the Abyss team, and even making an underwhelming proxy list seems like it's been more-or-less foreclosed by the new rules. I think I'm probably in the minority on this, but the big appeal of Kill Team for me was less about competitive balance or providing a cheap introduction to wargaming, and more as rules for using a small number of distinctively modeled characters that I wouldn't really get to use otherwise.
The Easy Rider fucked around with this message at 03:51 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 00:25
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moths posted:Here's the thing: if you already play 40k or KT or SWA, you already have those (or access to them.) What? Yeah I guess if I had been playing kill team already I wouldn't be trying to get started in kill team......... But as someone trying to get started in kill team, kt18 wouldve required me to make all those purchases for a good team - or for a marine team I need to buy a couple different boxes to get all the right equipment. And even as a long time 40k player I actually don't have 8 guardsmen with plasma guns or all the weird optimal marine load outs. Y'all are just obsessed with finding a reason to hate new KT.
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Aug 16, 2021 03:18
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I don’t “hate” it (I haven’t played the new one yet) but I’m annoyed that it killed my old Necron team stone cold dead and nearly killed my other two old teams. The trailer and Octarius box pitched the idea of wacky specialists like a sniper, demo guy, melee dude, etc, like the old Kill Team did, but it should have been a huge “red flag” when the Octarius models also said they could be built as a vanilla Ork squad and vanilla Guard squad and not wacky specialists. Right away that tells you that the game is built around mini-squads of physically similar units that happen to be customized into specialists, and not cherry-picked individuals like the old game had. I’ll admit that even I didn’t see that red flag, but the “team composition” part of the KT website was a little misleading - it would list off 3-10 “playable” unit types for each faction, but it should have had a “*pick two” disclaimer at the bottom. I acknowledge that this is mostly a problem for people who already had old Kill Teams and expected this to “fix” the old game’s problems, but it jacked up nearly everyone’s old teams. The “buy 1-2 new boxes, you’re good to go” approach is great for new players and I like it. The Compendium is turbo-overpriced for what it offers you though. Xenomrph fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 03:31
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I decided to pass for now. I’m sure I will regret it but I haven’t finished painting the last two boxes, and I have a pile of terrain from KS to finish. The Orks and Krieg are what attracted me to the box and they can hopefully be picked up later.
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Aug 16, 2021 03:44
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Booley posted:Y'all are just obsessed with finding a reason to hate new KT. I'm extremely hype for it. What I hate is that the people I would be playing with are already over it.
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Aug 16, 2021 03:55
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The Black Rider flung back his hood, and behold! he had a kingly crown; and yet upon no head visible was it set. The red fires shone between it and the mantled shoulders vast and dark. Hobbit-postin' ringwraiths I finally finished
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Aug 16, 2021 04:31
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Ringwraiths are cool as hell and yours look super awesome, nice work!
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Aug 16, 2021 04:40
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The Easy Rider posted:I'm a bit disappointed with the direction for Kill Team in terms of force composition, but from a hobby angle; I really wish GW would release a set of skirmish rules more akin to the old specialist games like Inquisitor or Mordheim, where there was a less of an expectation for even balance and more opportunities to get really wild with what a warband consisted of. The number of clearly optimal choices in this new edition (there's no reason to take anything other than a plasma pistol and power sword for Imperial Guard sergeants, for instance, and Death Watch veterans should always have a power sword and bolter instead of just a bolter) directly incentivizes a sort of maximalist approach to roster building, and if you were approaching things from more of a "what would look cool" direction, it's a bit of a disappointment. I spent a bunch of time kitbashing Death Watch guys who aren't really geared optimally, but in more of a fluff/aesthetic direction, and would now need to be proxied in order to actually see play, for example. I'm also a bit disappointed that the two other Kill Teams I've built just don't have rules now; I have some Elucidian Starstriders primed and ready to paint and a completed Servants of the Abyss team, and even making an underwhelming proxy list seems like it's been more-or-less foreclosed by the new rules. I think I'm probably in the minority on this, but the big appeal of Kill Team for me was less about competitive balance or providing a cheap introduction to wargaming, and more as rules for using a small number of distinctively modeled characters that I wouldn't really get to use otherwise. Necromunda these days is the most alike to Inquisitor or Mordheim FYI
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Aug 16, 2021 08:37
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Booley posted:What? Yeah I guess if I had been playing kill team already I wouldn't be trying to get started in kill team......... As someone who would have been getting started in KT, it's an issue for me because I want a SpecOps team, like the A-Team, Dirty Dozen, or Bad Batch. I don't want to play "just a normal squad detached over there." I want Gaunt's Ghosts. That I'd have to buy multiple boxes would still be GW's fault for not selling kits with the right options, and for shutting down bitz sales.
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Aug 16, 2021 11:21
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Anarcho-Commissar posted:As someone who would have been getting started in KT, it's an issue for me because I want a SpecOps team, like the A-Team, Dirty Dozen, or Bad Batch. I don't want to play "just a normal squad detached over there." I want Gaunt's Ghosts. It looks like they are planning to release kits like this and besides, with kitbashing and painting you can still make them look like your guys and give them personality, you just have less choice over loadouts and composition. It's a fair complaint, but I don't think it's that bad.
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Aug 16, 2021 12:47
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Booley posted:What? Yeah I guess if I had been playing kill team already I wouldn't be trying to get started in kill team......... Nobody is saying KT21 isn't better than KT18, they're just expressing concerns based on what they've seen so far. Booley posted:Because that's so much more than kill team core + elites + commanders + arena + time on eBay finding 8 plasma gunners for your guard
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Aug 16, 2021 13:13
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This weird idea that games can be okay because if you use the rules as written to make something incredibly effective you can be bullied into not doing it is very weird to me. It's not a point in KT18's favour. Why not just make the game good so you don't have to do that?
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Aug 16, 2021 13:28
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The Deleter posted:This weird idea that games can be okay because if you use the rules as written to make something incredibly effective you can be bullied into not doing it is very weird to me. It's not a point in KT18's favour. Why not just make the game good so you don't have to do that? A funny statement to make in a god drat GW thread lol
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Aug 16, 2021 13:52
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New Necromunda models. Love the lion paw prosthesis 
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Aug 16, 2021 13:58
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berzerkmonkey posted:a $35 rulebook containing force lists doesn't even come close to two books and measuring tools landing at $135. This is the crux of the problem, and what's ultimately the biggest barrier facing KT21. You're going to have Booleys who don't care. Maybe he's got a bigger and more enthusiastic group, and I envy him that. I'm on the fence because but my friends are done with it. I love eveything I've read so far, but I've got better uses for the money than another game nobody else plays. What makes/breaks a game is adoption - you can have the tightest ruleset in the world, but unless there's a perception that people will play it, it'll die on the vine. You'd think the SG thread would know about that better than anyone. SWA's "compendium" was a free PDF. KT18 included lists. KT21 is $50 book with a roadmap to its obsolescence announced before release. It's like they're deliberately leaning into what people fear from GW! I'm cool gambling $35 on a rulebook to hope it takes off. Budget pricing it means it'll get into more hands and that helps its success. This is just self-sabotage, and it's a drat shame because the game looks really loving good. E: I didn't expect to see a callback to the Necromundan 8th Spiders this morning!
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Aug 16, 2021 13:59
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a7m2 posted:It looks like they are planning to release kits like this and besides, with kitbashing and painting you can still make them look like your guys and give them personality, you just have less choice over loadouts and composition. It's a fair complaint, but I don't think it's that bad. And in a year or so, I'll see where the game is at and reevaluate. But I'm not buying a big book of lists I know isn't going to be fun or accurate long term, and I can't plunk down $200 for a set I don't need, when all I really want is the rulebook and a good IG source.
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Aug 16, 2021 14:21
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moths posted:This is the crux of the problem, and what's ultimately the biggest barrier facing KT21. You do understand that not everyone needs to buy the compendium (or even the rulebook), right? You can just buy one for your group and then photocopy the pages?
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Aug 16, 2021 14:34
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Oh I know. I've even been pushing   but their impressions have already been formed that it's "too expensive" and "not for me."I hate having to be a brand ambassador leading cats to water. I feel like GW is content to sell some starter boxes and then reboot this in three years, and they keep undercutting my chances of playing it.
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Aug 16, 2021 14:55
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While I'm disappointed that the compendium wasn't just a free PDF on the website, I'm at least happy that it sounds like they handled it better than the original AoS "old armies" compendium that was a borderline-if-not-actual insult to long-time players. While I was looking forward to Killteam, I'm firmly on the "wait and see" fence now with the buy-in price.
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Aug 16, 2021 14:58
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Complain about a game never getting proper support and new rules and then suddenly it's a roadmap to planned obsolescence make up your mind 
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Aug 16, 2021 15:12
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https://www.goonhammer.com/reivers-rubricae-kill-team-battle-report/ Seems like they compensated for the lack of team building rules by making the game itself much more interesting like I thought
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Aug 16, 2021 15:16
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