Endorph posted:i like hobonick a lot honestly. a dude changing in 7 years is pretty reasonable and hes an interesting character who still has flashes of the original phoenix. but people had a cry about something ever changing so now we have to deal with 3 defense attorneys and 3 prosecutors per game which means nobody gets any screentime, and nobody can ever develop either. Yeah, and Athena being added in what was still largely Apollo's trilogy really took away from her the most. Make AA7 Athena and Trucy combo. Let PW be around as a mentor still but never taking the stand or being the first person viewpoint himself.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:09
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Endorph posted:i like hobonick a lot honestly. a dude changing in 7 years is pretty reasonable and hes an interesting character who still has flashes of the original phoenix. but people had a cry about something ever changing so now we have to deal with 3 defense attorneys and 3 prosecutors per game which means nobody gets any screentime, and nobody can ever develop either. I think someone mentioned before that Apollo could get a 6-4 type case in AA7 since his arc is done and he doesn’t necessarily need to feature as much anymore. Worst case scenario is that additional Nick and Apollo cases are now relegated to DLC
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Aug 16, 2021 16:11
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In the middle of case 1-4 still. I feel like the court is being way too indulgent with how long it's taking Ryunosuke to explain the 4th book at the crime scene and why it actually matters, and outside of the defendants weird alliteration antics the case has been kind of a long drag so far. When the hell is that obviously evil harlequin dude gonna show back up and get on the stand?
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Aug 16, 2021 16:52
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Endorph posted:i like hobonick a lot honestly. a dude changing in 7 years is pretty reasonable and hes an interesting character who still has flashes of the original phoenix. but people had a cry about something ever changing so now we have to deal with 3 defense attorneys and 3 prosecutors per game which means nobody gets any screentime, and nobody can ever develop either. Zulily Zoetrope posted:Also Hobonick was entirely in character. You may hate that he's kind of a dick, but he's pretty justified in being one. You can also hate how bad he gets ratfucked after the original trilogy ends, that's fair. But the portrayal we see is entirely consistent with his character from the original trilogy plus having to spend seven years as a poker hobo. It's mostly the flashback that counteracts this, it took place like months after AA3 and yet Phoenix was basically an entirely different character You can of course argue that he changed during the 7 years, but what he changed into was the world's most unlikable dickhead, so yeah I dislike that and it's not because I pee my pants whenever I see change or whatever AA5/6 hit where he should've been imo, he's still kind of a goofus but a smart one and he lets slip some dark stuff once in a while Yinlock fucked around with this message at 17:07 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 17:03
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Anyway Spirit of Justice is one of the absolute best games in the series so it all worked out eventually.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:04
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Regy Rusty posted:Anyway Spirit of Justice is one of the absolute best games in the series so it all worked out eventually. 
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Aug 16, 2021 17:07
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Spirit of Justice was good, but I think a bit of a reset will be good to get the series back on the ground. The 3DS games were beginning to escalate the stakes in a weird way and I don't know where you go from there.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:07
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Caidin posted:In the middle of case 1-4 still. I feel like the court is being way too indulgent with how long it's taking Ryunosuke to explain the 4th book at the crime scene and why it actually matters, and outside of the defendants weird alliteration antics the case has been kind of a long drag so far. This reminds me of one thing I *think* 1-4 forgot about. Not sure if you're past this point but it's a minor detail in one testimony. 1-4 The copwife lists the books and gets one of them completely wrong. She gets the other 3 partially correct but the 4th book she mentions never comes up again at all unless I missed it. Zulily Zoetrope posted:Oh yeah, but he understands the circumstances that led to it, and though he does blame her, he never thought to kill her over it. He knows that's not what his brother would have wanted. He specifically says that he decided to kill her because she always smiled when she talked about him "looking down on them from the stars" instead of being sad about it. It's a hosed up reason to kill someone but it would be infuriating to have someone be casual and cute about your dead brother that they caused the death of. If anything her dad is a bastard for raising an incredibly naïve kid. Brandfarlig fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 17:09
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Carlosologist posted:I think you can see a bit of Nick’s edgier side in 6-5 during the civil trial and the scenes leading up to the trial in Khura’in. He’s definitely more serious sounding and competent looking when you don’t have his inner dialogue going Speaking as an attorney this is because with experience you gain the ability to project confidence whilst your inner dialogue is a disaster.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:11
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Brandfarlig posted:This reminds me of one thing I *think* 1-4 forgot about. Not sure if you're past this point but it's a minor detail in one testimony. 1-4 The copwife lists the books and gets one of them completely wrong. She gets the other 3 partially correct but the 4th book she mentions never comes up again at all unless I missed it. That's not how I remember it. I thought she listed 4 books, all of them mostly correct. Then you object because the receipt only listed three books, you get a photo proving the 4th book was there after all, it was burnt from the fire, etc.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:16
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Waffleman_ posted:Spirit of Justice was good, but I think a bit of a reset will be good to get the series back on the ground. The 3DS games were beginning to escalate the stakes in a weird way and I don't know where you go from there. tbf it's not like [1-5]GAA isn't also guilty of this I wouldn't mind some more down-to-earth cases though Yinlock fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 17:18
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Snake Maze posted:That's not how I remember it. I thought she listed 4 books, all of them mostly correct. Then you object because the receipt only listed three books, you get a photo proving the 4th book was there after all, it was burnt from the fire, etc. 1-4 I might be misremembering but I think the 4th book she mentions doesn't match the burnt one either. I think she basically names a fifth book that never comes up.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:22
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Will scotland yard ever master the incredible investigative technique of Looking At The Back of Things
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Aug 16, 2021 17:24
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No, and 1-5 had me waiting to turn the things I looked at the back of back around again but it never came up. Almost a missed opportunity.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:26
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Dogen posted:Speaking as an attorney this is because with experience you gain the ability to project confidence whilst your inner dialogue is a disaster. I can concur with this as a teacher 
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Aug 16, 2021 17:27
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Yinlock posted:It's mostly the flashback that counteracts this, it took place like months after AA3 and yet Phoenix was basically an entirely different character Maybe I'm misremembering the flashback case, but Nick didn't seem all that different to me in it. I remember him being really confident and aggressive, but I was on board with that as he was directing all his energy at dunking on Klavier, who sucks. If that's your beef, that's quite fair. The main thing I remember is that despite being framed, he takes full accountability for the sake of his client, which is very much what he'd do. Brandfarlig posted:This reminds me of one thing I *think* 1-4 forgot about. Not sure if you're past this point but it's a minor detail in one testimony. 1-4 The copwife lists the books and gets one of them completely wrong. She gets the other 3 partially correct but the 4th book she mentions never comes up again at all unless I missed it. She refers to "The Lion's Pride" as "The Thingummy's Whatsit" or something similar involving two placeholder nouns. Not accurate in the least, but it's technically not wrong. Brandfarlig posted:It's a hosed up reason to kill someone but it would be infuriating to have someone be casual and cute about your dead brother that they caused the death of. If anything her dad is a bastard for raising an incredibly naïve kid. Well yeah, but as you say, that's on the dad. He's supposed to be the perfectly rational, sympathetic killer, and he's really, really not.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:32
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Yinlock posted:tbf it's not like [1-5]GAA isn't also guilty of this I think the setting of GAA kinda helps keep that in line more than the late 2020s of the 3DS games.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:34
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Brandfarlig posted:1-4 I might be misremembering but I think the 4th book she mentions doesn't match the burnt one either. I think she basically names a fifth book that never comes up. Her title for the book that turned out to have been the Lions Pride was like The Whatsit Thingy or there about. She plain couldn't remember that at all so you could potentially go Euraka when you find out it's name.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:35
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Maybe I'm misremembering the flashback case, but Nick didn't seem all that different to me in it. I remember him being really confident and aggressive, but I was on board with that as he was directing all his energy at dunking on Klavier, who sucks. If that's your beef, that's quite fair. The main thing I remember is that despite being framed, he takes full accountability for the sake of his client, which is very much what he'd do. 1-4 book chat: poo poo, that's it. Thanks for clearing that up. No Acro sucks poo poo, much like the rest of the case. If they wanted him to be sympathetic maybe don't make the person he hates a naïve teen. It would be difficult to write but I don't remember a case where you even come close to almost wanting to forgive murder due to the circumstances. Perhaps it's for the best that they haven't tried (that I can remember).
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Aug 16, 2021 17:39
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Yinlock posted:Will scotland yard ever master the incredible investigative technique of Looking At The Back of Things Looking At The Back Of Things is the Naruhodo/Wright family Secret Technique, handed down throughout the generations and never shared with outsiders. Apollo and Athena are basically Wrights so they get to learn this power.
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Aug 16, 2021 17:40
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Maybe I'm misremembering the flashback case, but Nick didn't seem all that different to me in it. I remember him being really confident and aggressive, but I was on board with that as he was directing all his energy at dunking on Klavier, who sucks. If that's your beef, that's quite fair. The main thing I remember is that despite being framed, he takes full accountability for the sake of his client, which is very much what he'd do. It's mostly his constant thoughts of AH YOU INEXPERIENCED WHELP which is just weirdly un-phoenix like. He's acting like some kind of steely-eyed veteran despite never having acted like that once in his entire career Afterwards is fine I agree, it's just getting there that's kinda ehhhhh
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Aug 16, 2021 17:41
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Funky Valentine posted:Looking At The Back Of Things is the Naruhodo/Wright family Secret Technique, handed down throughout the generations and never shared with outsiders. Then how did Edgeworth figure it out for the Investigations games?
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Aug 16, 2021 17:41
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Yinlock posted:I really liked AA5/6 so I'm sad that team is broken up, but I think Takumi's redeemed himself for 4's garbage fire at this point
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Aug 16, 2021 17:41
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Junpei posted:Then how did Edgeworth figure it out for the Investigations games? Phoenix tells his husband everything?
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Aug 16, 2021 17:42
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Brandfarlig posted:No Acro sucks poo poo, much like the rest of the case. If they wanted him to be sympathetic maybe don't make the person he hates a naïve teen. It would be difficult to write but I don't remember a case where you even come close to almost wanting to forgive murder due to the circumstances. Perhaps it's for the best that they haven't tried (that I can remember). G2-2 Olive is presented pretty sympathetically, though that's attempted murder rather than the actual murder
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Aug 16, 2021 17:42
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Amppelix posted:apollo justice is good and clearly hamstrung mostly by factors outside of his control The mandates definitely didn't help but I still think it's just badly-written overall. I'll drop it here though since nobody(including me) is really willing to budge on their stance on this. gently caress that 4-3 video though seriously Junpei posted:Then how did Edgeworth figure it out for the Investigations games? AAI2 tells us that edgeworth only understands anything in chess form, chess pieces can be turned around, therefore so can objects. it's simple logic detective Yinlock fucked around with this message at 17:56 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 17:54
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Brandfarlig posted:No Acro sucks poo poo, much like the rest of the case. If they wanted him to be sympathetic maybe don't make the person he hates a naïve teen. It would be difficult to write but I don't remember a case where you even come close to almost wanting to forgive murder due to the circumstances. Perhaps it's for the best that they haven't tried (that I can remember). There's a fair amount of cases where I feel the murderer is plenty sympathetic, and in a couple cases, even forgivable. Well, short of the part where they try to frame an innocent third party, they all fall short of being actually sympathetic on that front. Like, off the top of my head, there are extenuating circumstances in cases 1-3, 2-2, 3-5, 6-3, and, uh, I think a couple of the Layton/Edgeworth 2 cases, though I haven't replayed those. Outside of 3-5, the culprits are still ultimately fuckers for letting someone else take the fall, and in 3-5 Godot is far from innocent, but he never actually tries to frame anyone; that's all on Dahlia/Iris, and when Dahlia is exorcized and everyone considers the case over, Godot points out that neither Dahlia nor Iris could be the culprit, and urges the trial to go on. That, I at least respect.
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Aug 16, 2021 18:08
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Junpei posted:Then how did Edgeworth figure it out for the Investigations games? When your classmate is Larry you quickly learn to double check every item thoroughly for prank safety. Edgeworth's other secret ancient technique of basic logic allowed him to apply the skill in similar situations.
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Aug 16, 2021 18:22
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:There's a fair amount of cases where I feel the murderer is plenty sympathetic, and in a couple cases, even forgivable. Well, short of the part where they try to frame an innocent third party, they all fall short of being actually sympathetic on that front. It's been years since I played the first 6 games so thanks for the refresh. 3-5 and 6-3 are good examples but they're more accidental than "person plots and commits murder but it's somewhat justifiable". 3-5 Godot is a chauvinistic fucker but he does try to be a good person, mostly. 3 really is one of the best games. 3-1,4 and 5 have a good story that leads up to my favorite case and 3-2 is very fun and has Luke Atmey. 3-3 has the unfortunate chef and a surprisingly dumb story but it doesn't stand out to me like 2-3 does. Tigre is fun, at least.
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Aug 16, 2021 19:02
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2-3 has given me like three "Oh poo poo I get it now" moments in the second trial alone, I love it
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Aug 16, 2021 19:46
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Waffleman_ posted:2-3 has given me like three "Oh poo poo I get it now" moments in the second trial alone, I love it 2-3 part 2 is just fantastic from start to finish
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Aug 16, 2021 19:58
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2-2: these jurors actually have half a brain cell (total), color me almost impressed. It's kinda sad how underground that bar is.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:09
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Finished 1-4. I feel robbed, there wasn't a murder. There was assault I guess but it was really more of an accident then anything. And Jester man and Popeye weren't even involved. At least Zeiks seems to be a fairly straight shooting and none physically abusive prosecutor, if apparently something of a witch. And a functional alcoholic at that.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:09
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Caidin posted:Finished 1-4. I feel robbed, there wasn't a murder. There was assault I guess but it was really more of an accident then anything. And Jester man and Popeye weren't even involved. Tbf he doesn't seem to actually drink much of that wine
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Aug 16, 2021 20:12
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G2-4: What the gently caress, this sure took a sharp left turn real loving fast. You can't just do that, game. This better turn out to be some kind of double-flip switcharoo.
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Aug 16, 2021 20:16
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2-3 has been driving me crazy with some amazing dick move contradictions that don't work with the normal system and I am quite annoyed and stuck. Could use some help. 2-3, trial part 3. So I'm on the first part of Drummer's testimony, exposed the first contradiction about the birdcage on statement 4 and got the testimony amended. Following it up with pointing out the stage photograph or the balloon photograph don't do a thing, so I'm looking at statement 3 about the body double, but presenting the glass shard from the waxwork or the waxwork head also don't work. What am I missing? Never mind, complaining about it worked, it was another figuring things out in the wrong order PlasticAutomaton fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 21:12
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PlasticAutomaton posted:2-3 has been driving me crazy with some amazing dick move contradictions that don't work with the normal system and I am quite annoyed and stuck. Could use some help. If it's the part I'm thinking of you need to prove there's somewhere else the birdcage could have fallen from. What evidence do you have that shows this?
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Aug 16, 2021 21:16
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PlasticAutomaton posted:2-3, trial part 3. So I'm on the first part of Drummer's testimony, exposed the first contradiction about the birdcage on statement 4 and got the testimony amended. Following it up with pointing out the stage photograph or the balloon photograph don't do a thing, so I'm looking at statement 3 about the body double, but presenting the glass shard from the waxwork or the waxwork head also don't work. What am I missing? Uhh, I don't remember exactly what the witness statement is. Is it the one about there is nowhere else the cage could've fallen from? If so, the answer is the sketch of the experiment and the Crystal Tower.
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Aug 16, 2021 21:16
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PlasticAutomaton posted:2-3 has been driving me crazy with some amazing dick move contradictions that don't work with the normal system and I am quite annoyed and stuck. Could use some help. "It couldn't have fallen from anywhere else? Well, what about this massive hole underneath where the birdcage was??" "Go gently caress yourself, Mr. Naruhodo. Penalty."
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Aug 16, 2021 21:22
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I do wish we got to see more of the shady hobonick side in the post-AA4 games instead of nearly all of it basically just being reset back to before that state.Caidin posted:Finished 1-4. I feel robbed, there wasn't a murder. There was assault I guess but it was really more of an accident then anything. And Jester man and Popeye weren't even involved. I will say I think it was a bit of a missed opportunity to not have the victim testify in the story to complicate things to really throw a wrench into the formula, since she wasn't dead. 2-1 I do wish we got to play as lawyser Susato all game. Oh well.
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Aug 16, 2021 21:24
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