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SpacePig posted:I may not have watched enough of it, but was any accident Roman culture or construction ever attributed to aliens the way ancient African, Asian, and American stuff was? Racism does play a part, but also unlike Egypt, the Celts or others, the Roman Empire was still around. Literally everybody called "Byzantium" the Roman Empire until 800, even the west, so anybody during the dark ages seeing these huge constructions and asking who built them would get the answer "those guys who live down by the southern sea".
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Aug 16, 2021 15:42
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Business Gorillas posted:That was the library of Alexandria It's even more convoluted and screwed up than that. - The crusaders wanted Venice to take them to Egypt first, but had no money (and Egypt was a major Venitian trading partner, so Venice didn't want to do it in the first place) - Then they were all talked into taking a Catholic city for Venice by way of payment, which led to the entire crusade getting excommunicated. - Then they decided to put a pretender to the Byzantine throne in power so that the new emperor would finance the crusade. They did and the emperor they put in place was overthrown by a popular revolt just about immediately. - Then, trapped just outside of a hostile Constantinople and broke, they sacked the city, destroyed and looted thousands of years of Greek and Roman cultural treasures and put a catholic emperor on the throne. - But the faction that took the empire did so by letting the other factions take all of the money, so the new empire was also broke and suffered years of civil wars until the greeks eventually took it back. So all the fourth crusaded ended up accomplishing was fatally wounding the largest christian nation between europe and the islamic world and making the Catholic-Orthodox schism permanent.
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Aug 16, 2021 16:02
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Shame Boy posted:There are definitely ancient aliens kooks that focus on Rome instead of Egypt or whatever but they're certainly a lot less popular, presumably because of racisms. Yeah but that's not relevant, in ancient aliens you have old enough that aliens did it and not old enough it was humans. This is directly related to how "primitive" the people in question were when they built the thing or wrote the story, and so is heavily racial. Ancient aliens IMO may or may not be racist, and there is a million combinations of dumbass concepts, even saying stuff like divince or newton or einstein were all aliens in disguise, but I think it's pretty reactionary and takes achievements out of the hands of the people and reworks history for the same reason hollow flat earth q anon poo poo does. "There are things that are probably true but don't add up with my unexamined beliefs that I want to keep, what's something that ensures everything adds up?" Basically ancient aliens is a dumb boring idea that is part of the constellation of ideas that boil down to that pic that has an alien, commie, devil, jew, & illuminati all holding hands. The caption is "don't understand capitalism? Blame us!"
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Aug 16, 2021 16:06
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"This Whole Thing Smacks Of Monotheism," i holler as i overturn my emperor's brazier and turn the empire of rome into the empire of poo poo
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Aug 16, 2021 16:07
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Danaru posted:"This Whole Thing Smacks Of Monotheism," i holler as i overturn my emperor's brazier and turn the empire of rome into the empire of poo poo 
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Aug 16, 2021 18:23
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The venetians were the only ones who held up their end of the bargain and got blamed for everything for being too jewey. Iirc their leader is this badass blind 80 year old who is furious the whole time The Christian city they sack doesn't fight back and are putting up giant flags everywhere expressing how Christian they are The pope excommunicated everyone but they ignored the pope and he had to back down cause otherwise it would look like he had no authority. When theyr in constantinople bad poo poo keeps happening and the leaders are hiding the fact they got excommunicated and no god isn't mad at them it's Jewish black magic! They keep putting puppet rulers on the throne whose sole purpose is to pay them but they keep running away. It then turns out the treasury was emptied by the first guy who ran away and there's no money At one point the crusaders are melting down crosses to turn into coins in one of the most sacred cities to Christianity lol It owns Communist Thoughts has issued a correction as of 18:38 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 18:35
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Shame Boy posted:On the one hand I understand the whole "the roman empire kept on trucking for another thousand years" thing and that the Byzantine empire just called themselves "the roman empire" the whole time and historians only made the distinction much later and kinda arbitrarily, on the other hand it still feels weird to call it the roman empire when it didn't actually govern from Rome. It'd be like if the UK collapsed and Canada started calling itself the British Empire or something. I guess I should just take my complaints to emperor Constantine though. a better analogy would be if the eastern US collapsed and California/Nevada/Arizona/Texas/Alaska continued calling themselves the United States of America
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Aug 16, 2021 19:21
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Anyway, the Roman Empire ended in 1806 in Germany. The whole Mediterranean thing was just a phase.
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Aug 16, 2021 19:45
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Jabronie posted:Ok moraine 
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Aug 16, 2021 20:02
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BonHair posted:Anyway, the Roman Empire ended in 1806 in Germany. The whole Mediterranean thing was just a phase. The ancient Germans fought several wars to not be Roman, the least we can do is respect that and ignore the French wannabes.
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Aug 16, 2021 21:22
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We still don't know how the pyramids were built, that's the origin of "ancient aliens" theories and why they're less popular about other antique societies, not just Rome. No need to jump to racism as the universal explanation for everything.
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Aug 16, 2021 21:47
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It was slaves OP
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Aug 16, 2021 21:56
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Fame Douglas posted:We still don't know how the pyramids were built, that's the origin of "ancient aliens" theories and why they're less popular about other antique societies, not just Rome. No need to jump to racism as the universal explanation for everything. Just get a bunch of people to push the stones up ramps, I dunno what's so mysterious there This old fat guy built a stone henge by himself, I'm sure the Egyptians could figure it out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P4HwmmhykI
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Aug 16, 2021 21:58
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Wow, such insight
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Aug 16, 2021 22:03
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Yeah, it was tens (hundreds?) of thousands of farmers over 20 years, who could divert some of their labour to building a tomb for the god emperor every year, because the Nile valley was/is so fertile. So we do know how the Pyramids were built. Edit: (Obviously plus the incredibly skilled artisans who were brought in)
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Aug 16, 2021 22:03
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Failed Imagineer posted:It was slaves OP Egypt actually didn't rely on slaves as much as the other ancient near east/med societies because they had a massive population. The people who built the pyramids and other great monuments were skilled laborers and farmers in the off-season who were paid in beer.
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Aug 16, 2021 22:03
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Lor posted:Yeah, it was tens (hundreds?) of thousands of farmers over 20 years, who could divert some of their labour to building a tomb for the god emperor every year, because the Nile valley was/is so fertile. We actually don't know how the pyramids were built. But there are several theories on the techniques used.
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Aug 16, 2021 22:06
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Yeah generally speaking the people who built the pyramids were probably better treated and better compensated for their time than people who work some fast food job are today
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Aug 16, 2021 22:06
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Taskmaster to pyramid worker: "If you have time to lean, you have time to push stones up the ramp"
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Aug 16, 2021 22:07
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Fame Douglas posted:We still don't know how the pyramids were built They piled rocks on top of rocks, but used less rocks every storey. HTH, OP.
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Aug 16, 2021 22:08
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Fame Douglas posted:We actually don't know how the pyramids were built. But there are several theories on the techniques used. I assume you mean we technically don't know because no one alive today was around at the time, which I guess is true. If not, what techniques are you talking about? How to drag stones up a very long incline? I think the consensus today is there was a very long dirt ramp leading to each level and once they'd finished that one, they just built up the ramp to the next level, all the way up. Edit: Does CSPAM have a slow mode applied to posting? 
Lor has issued a correction as of 22:16 on Aug 16, 2021 |
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Aug 16, 2021 22:13
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3D Megadoodoo posted:They piled rocks on top of rocks, but used less rocks every storey. HTH, OP. Dude spoilers...
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Aug 16, 2021 22:15
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Yeah we don't technically know precisely which techniques were used in exactly what way but all the It Would Be Impossible Even With Modern Tools bullshit is just people treating their old time life mysteries of the unknown books like they were non-fiction
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Aug 16, 2021 22:15
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Lor posted:I assume you mean we technically don't know because no one alive today was around at the time, which I guess is true. When you say "very long" you aren't kidding. It would have had to be longer than there is actually space for. "Ramp going around* the pyramid" was good enough for David Macaulay so it's good enough for me. *) asquare?
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Aug 16, 2021 22:17
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3D Megadoodoo posted:When you say "very long" you aren't kidding. Oh for sure, absolutely - - but again, tens of thousands of people for 20 years...
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Aug 16, 2021 22:18
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It turns out it's easy to figure out how the pyramids might have been made if you're looking for that and not evidence of alien contact.
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Aug 16, 2021 22:20
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Fame Douglas posted:Taskmaster to pyramid worker: "If you have time to lean, you have time to push stones up the ramp" silence, nojoe failure
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Aug 16, 2021 22:20
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Fame Douglas posted:Taskmaster to pyramid worker: "If you have time to lean, you have time to push stones up the ramp" Not really Davies' style, but I am getting tired of waiting for series 12 to start.
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Aug 16, 2021 22:21
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3D Megadoodoo posted:They piled rocks on top of rocks, but used less rocks every storey. HTH, OP.  this fuckin guy
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Aug 16, 2021 22:21
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Hodgepodge posted:It turns out it's easy to figure out how the pyramids might have been made if you're looking for that and not evidence of alien contact. I think that if space aliens had built the pyramids, it wouldn't have taken decades. Unless they were busy making UFOPORNOO most of the time. FFT posted:next you're going to tell me there isn't a deep mystical connection between all of the different cultures across the world that also piled rocks on top of rocks using less rocks as they got higher. All the people were related! 
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Aug 16, 2021 22:22
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Fame Douglas posted:Taskmaster to pyramid worker: "If you have time to lean, you have time to push stones up the ramp" Literally that episode of futurama where they go to ancient egypt planet
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Aug 16, 2021 22:22
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Like Alexander the Great assaulted the ISLAND city of Tyre by building a dirt "bridge" to it a kilometer long, under enemy fire (when they got close). That bridge is still connecting the city to the mainland today. The Romans assaulted the fortress of Masada by building a ramp up to the mountain plateau they were on, under enemy fire (when they got close). The remains of that ramp is still there today.  So a long ramp to get some blocks up to the next level of the Pharos' tomb is just not out of the ordinary at all. (Disclaimer - I'm not a historian or engineer and I'll stop posting now =D)
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Aug 16, 2021 22:25
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Lor posted:Like Alexander the Great assaulted the ISLAND city of Tyre by building a dirt "bridge" to it a kilometer long, under enemy fire (when they got close). That bridge is still connecting the city to the mainland today. Like I said, the problem with Big Ramp Theory seems to be that there simply isn't room for a ramp long enough on the plateau. Now someone Wikipedia it and crush me 
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Aug 16, 2021 22:26
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3D Megadoodoo posted:Like I said, the problem with Big Ramp Theory seems to be that there simply isn't room for a ramp long enough on the plateau. Now someone Wikipedia it and crush me Sorry buddy, I wasn't directly replying to you. A ramp around the pyramids could work just fine I'm sure, I was more replying to people who might think we have no idea how the pyramids "could possibly have been" built. Please feel free to ignore me. =)
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Aug 16, 2021 22:30
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Lor posted:Like Alexander the Great assaulted the ISLAND city of Tyre by building a dirt "bridge" to it a kilometer long, under enemy fire (when they got close). That bridge is still connecting the city to the mainland today. Maybe aliens helped Alexander and Romans as well 
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Aug 16, 2021 22:31
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Lor posted:Like Alexander the Great assaulted the ISLAND city of Tyre by building a dirt "bridge" to it a kilometer long, under enemy fire (when they got close). That bridge is still connecting the city to the mainland today. which can really twist biblical literalists since he didn't destroy it utterly like Ezekiel said he (and definitely explicitly Neb.) would
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Aug 16, 2021 22:32
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the modern human brain has basically been the exact same for millennia, turns out ancient people know how to do things just as good as we do. tools = good
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Aug 16, 2021 22:34
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building a pyramid is gonna draw resources and skills from across the entire social hierarchy so trying to figure out what class of egyptians were the true builders doesn't make a lot of sense. like the farmers that fed the builders and made the beer weren't getting paid poo poo. The dudes making mud bricks for the support structures probably don't get paid much either. the quarriers and stone movers probably got a bit more and on up the chain until you get to the architect who is top nobility.
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Aug 16, 2021 22:37
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In fact I think I might have been arguing a point that Fame Douglas didn't actually make, and if so, apologies to him and sorry for the derail. To bring it back on topic: labour seems to be the source of all great things. Even in the ancient world. =D
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Aug 16, 2021 22:38
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Lor posted:I assume you mean we technically don't know because no one alive today was around at the time, which I guess is true. It's not consensus in any way, and there's a lack of large scale experiments for the practical side of building the parts, but this video has a really interesting idea on how to move all those blocks; water. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1y8N0ePuF8
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Aug 16, 2021 22:44
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