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Which should I play as for the Generals Challenge? [Pick 3] This poll is closed. |
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| Laser |
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60 | 14.74% |
| Air Power |
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34 | 8.35% |
| Super Weapons |
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49 | 12.04% |
| Tanks |
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26 | 6.39% |
| Infantry |
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39 | 9.58% |
| Nuclear Power |
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68 | 16.71% |
| Toxin |
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48 | 11.79% |
| Stealth |
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42 | 10.32% |
| Explosives |
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41 | 10.07% |
| Total: | 189 votes | ||
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Fangz posted:Completely baseless, but I wonder if originally this was meant to be a China vs US map. Not sure, but we'll get to cut content... eventually. FoolyCharged posted:Yeah, less so for the Chinese, but the other two factions have tools that are easily abused with anything that gives you Los into their base like the mine drop. I feel like I'm already flirting the spoiler policy going into that much detail so I won't elaborate further. I just don't feel like the AI lets you get away with it. But we'll get there when we get there.
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Aug 18, 2021 12:02
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Not sure, but we'll get to cut content... eventually. I'm curious to learn more about this in due time, in a lot of games you can really tell there was cut content, and often recognize it, but I never got that vibe from Generals. It felt relatively "finished."
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Aug 18, 2021 12:31
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Jobbo_Fett posted:I was wondering that myself. I feel like the mission either got repurposed or had some last minute change for such a strange choice. Same, the lack of difficulty, the weirdly high amount of reinforcements for a non-commando style mission, and general simpleness of the objective really makes one wonder about it.
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Aug 18, 2021 12:32
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The game files show at least one cut Chinese mission, and given other last-minute changes from publisher pressure it's very plausible that this mission was thrown together quickly to replace something. I would wager outside pressure not to have the US and Chinese factions fight one another directly. The game was inevitably banned in China (and China wasn't seen as a core market yet in 2003) but it's just possible EA thought they could avoid a backlash and reap some tasty Chinese sales receipts. Or it could have just been lack of time like so many other games. I always felt the issue with Black Lotus is that she's too fragile to risk on the front lines, whilst having powers that work well there. Lotus under stealth accompanying an attack force can shut off an enemy defensive structure at a key moment, or shut down a production building. That's worth having! It's essentially what hackers do without stealth (and therefore get picked off in seconds if you try it). Tie all that to an expensive mission-critical hero unit and you have a recipe for frustration, especially as stealth detection is cheap and easy past the early game and the roster is full of AOE anti-infantry weapons. If Lotus were tougher and toxin-resistant, she'd be worth taking with your assault force as a lurking surprise.
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Aug 18, 2021 12:54
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As a kid, I recall reading unit previews from an earlier version of Generals that sounded a bit more fantastical, with stuff like seismic vehicles and weird, segmented tanks.
Mordja fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Aug 18, 2021 |
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Aug 18, 2021 14:00
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PurpleXVI posted:I'm curious to learn more about this in due time, in a lot of games you can really tell there was cut content, and often recognize it, but I never got that vibe from Generals. It felt relatively "finished." The campaigns clearly felt rushed together to me; just look a page back at how fast Jobbo recorded everything. They felt that way when I first played this game too - no FMVs, these really truncated mission briefs, it just felt mediocre compared to the expansive campaigns of previous titles like, uh, every C&C game. But imagine coming off RA2/YR to ... this. Really, for anyone thinking about it, if you want a game like Generals but better, get Act of War. Glad to see that got brought up at some point. (LP it jobbo you know you want to) -- details on that can wait, I suppose. Psion fucked around with this message at 16:42 on Aug 18, 2021 |
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Aug 18, 2021 16:37
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Generals and Zero Hour are pretty infamous for how much cut content there was. Digging around in the game files reveals a lot of things that got at least as far as the voice actors recording lines either for units who had additional functions / variations at one point or units who were planned but never saw the light of day. Same thing with a lot of buildings that were planned but never materialized. A lot of mods for Zero Hour restore some of this cut content to varying degrees of success.
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Aug 18, 2021 20:16
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China 05: Scorched Earth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-rifQXMS2o China 05: Scorched Earth  China and Tibet are now safe, and it is time to take the fight to the GLA proper. The first step in doing so is to attack GLA bases in the neighbouring country of Aldastan.   Generals decides to go the alt-history route by making Kyrgyzstan a part of the fictional country, Aldastan. Why this was necessary is beyond me. The Command and Conquer wiki frames it as a merger between the two ex-soviet republics [Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan] that would eventually be taken over by GLA before open conflict against China, and used as a springboard for outward aggression.  Location: Balykchy, Kyrgyzstan, Aldastan Objective: Destroy the GLA stronghold in the area. Author's note: We finally get the backbone of the Chinese Army, the Overlord. Coupled with the rare combination of Chinese and US powers, it is clear that this is a mission for brute force, and a careless attitude towards civilians.   Overlord Tank RANGE: Medium ARMOR: Tank WEAPON: Twin 120mm Cannons COST: 2000 Large and slow, the Overlord Tank is a battlefield force to be reckoned with. In addition to basic firing, this tank can run over enemy vehicles. A single Bunker, Gatling Cannon, or Propaganda Tower can be erected on its back. Author's Note: I love this tank. Its the best. On top of it just being great, being able to customize itself in three unique ways, great voice lines, twin cannons, and a butt that just won't quit.  I forget if its in this mission, but I think I just discovered a misconception I've held since forever. Propaganda Towers don't reveal hidden units, according to the wiki.  Propaganda Center ARMOR: Structure COST: 2000 POWER USAGE: 2 PURPOSE: Unlocks higher tier units/technology. From the Propaganda Center come inspiring messages to troops in the field. Author's Note: To get the best unit ever, one must buy a Propaganda Center.  Propaganda Tower ARMOR: Structure COST: 500 POWER USAGE: 1 PURPOSE: Provides subliminal messaging that increases friendly units' rate of fire, and allows them to heal themselves. When the Red Army is hurting, its units turn to the Speaker Tower for inspiration. All units within range of its propaganda automatically heal their wounds. The Speaker Tower is a great way to heal units and get them back into the fight quickly. Author's Note: I rarely build these, if only because I'm too busy applying them to Overlord tanks and attacking!   Cash Hack III FACTION: China COST: 3 General Points PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Steal funds directly from an enemy Supply Center/Stash. Ability to steal money from enemy Supply Centers. Author's Note: A "whopping" $4000 credits to steal. Hard pass when Hackers exist.  Artillery Barrage III FACTION: China COST: 3 General Points PREREQUISITE: Rank 3 PURPOSE: Allows for an Artillery Barrage of 36 guns to be called in anywhere on the map. From the Command Center, you can call in an artillery strike from off the map. Author's Note: You can get a devastating, 36 artillery, unstoppable strike that can destroy most units/buildings. Or Level 3 Cash Hack.  Nationalism FACTION: China COST: 2000 PREREQUISITE: Propaganda Center PURPOSE: Increases the bonus received by the Horde effect by 25% Developed at the Propaganda Center, Nationalism increases the Horde effect on all Red Guard, Tank Hunter, and Battlemaster Tank units. Author's Note: If you have 2000 bucks to spend, sure, why not?  Battle Bunker [Overlord Tank] FACTION: China COST: 400 PREREQUISITE: Overlord Tank PURPOSE: Housing 5 infantry units. No entry in Manual. Author's Note: According to the wiki, the bunker is susceptible to chemical attacks. I typically skip this upgrade.  Gatling Cannon [Overlord Tank] FACTION: China COST: 1200 PREREQUISITE: Overlord Tank PURPOSE: Provides a Gatling Cannon No entry in Manual. Author's Note: Essentially a way to have a mobile Gatling Cannon.  Propaganda Tower [Overlord Tank] FACTION: China COST: 500 PREREQUISITE: Overlord Tank PURPOSE: Units in its radius heal automatically, as well as shoot faster. No entry in Manual. Author's Note: As with the static version, and the Gatling Cannon, this upgrade allows for a mobile version of the powerful structure. Aftermath: Having suffered at the hands of the GLA themselves, the USA became an unlikely ally of China's in the fight against the terrorist organization. The American air support proved invaluable in the fighting that saw the liberation of Balykchy. Jobbo_Fett fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 03:16
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Overlord has got to be my favourite of the C&C supertanks, just for how versatile they can be.
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Aug 19, 2021 03:21
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What's the difference between a gatling and a bunker full of horded-up red guards?
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Aug 19, 2021 03:29
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The Lone Badger posted:What's the difference between a gatling and a bunker full of horded-up red guards? A Gatling turret gives stealth detection. Red Guards/Tank Hunters don't get the horde effect unless they have it when they enter. Red Guards can't attack air units. I think Gatling Cannons shoot faster than Red Guards as well. I can say that Tank Hunters would be a valuable addition. Mix that with some propaganda towers and gatling cannons and you have a devastating force regardless.
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Aug 19, 2021 03:33
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Cash Hack isn't really that great against the AI, due to the bottomless piles of money the AI is usually granted with in these games, but it's pretty powerful against human enemies. Level 3 Cash Hack is a net change of 8000 cash if you hack your enemy and they have more than 4000 in the bank when you use it. That can make quite a bit of difference in a close game, but you'll rarely see players go that far, since China has plenty of good support powers to spend elsewhere. Hackers do generate money constantly, but 1) it takes even a large group of them a while to make 4000 bucks and 2) they're extremely vulnerable if the enemy gets anywhere near them.
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Aug 19, 2021 03:48
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I am very disappointed that you hovered over a button labeled "nuke cannon" and didn't click it.
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Aug 19, 2021 04:02
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Don't worry Jobbo, I remember getting confused about the speaker towers and whether they give stealth detection too. It's actually the Gatling cannon upgrade that gives stealth detection.
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Aug 19, 2021 04:21
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FoolyCharged posted:I am very disappointed that you hovered over a button labeled "nuke cannon" and didn't click it. I show them off... eventually. Kinda.
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Aug 19, 2021 04:32
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The barrel traps in this mission are absolutely maddening if you don't realize you can detect stealth.
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Aug 19, 2021 04:38
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Nuke cannons are good, strong, and my friends and I won't hear otherwise
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Aug 19, 2021 04:43
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They also have some of my favorite voice lines. The ominous "we bring gifts" like they see themselves as some kind of evil Prometheus.Kibayasu posted:The barrel traps in this mission are absolutely maddening if you don't realize you can detect stealth. I think it got mentioned in the summaries, but not the videos, but this is the real value of the troop crawler. They're basically a detection unit that comes with free infantry.
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Aug 19, 2021 05:13
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To this day I occasionally blurt out Overlord quotes. I think the reason the voice isn’t awfully stereotypical like the rest of China’s units is because the VA is trying to make their voice deep and menacing. Gotta wonder what the voice direction for this game was like.
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Aug 19, 2021 06:06
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Mordja posted:Overlord has got to be my favourite of the C&C supertanks, just for how versatile they can be. "I am... BIG." While I will always have a soft spot for the classic C&C1 Mammoth, mainly cause it was the first, the General's version of em is defiantly (to date anyway) one of, if not THE best. A rank 3 Apoc Tank from RA2/YR might be more powerful attack-wise, but just being able to custom tailor each Overlord is so incredibly useful and they still hit like a train and take a beating in return. And yeah, I too pretty much went with a 2 or 3 to 1 ratio of Gatling Turrets to Speaker Towers on the Overlords and pretty much never used the Bunker. To its credit, 5 hoard bonus rocket infantry in it can give an incredible punch vs armor and buildings but the anti-infantry/air and detection of the Gatling always won me over. The mission itself is yet another kill some set buildings to win, but due to the map set-up it can be a nasty urban brawl, double so with all those hidden trap barrels everywhere. The carpet bomb power is a pretty nice bonus with a super short timer, but as seen in the video, it has wet tissue paper for armor and health, so unless it's angle of approach is good, they tend to fall to a single Stinger Site. Good for clearing out area's that don't have those defenses though. The way your base is positioned, with the wide open front and danger from across the river to the north is fairly challenging, especially as up to this point the GLA either barely attacks you or does so from a single angle, and now you have to watch a lot of ground. Now they can and will swarm you with a good variety of units although the attacks themselves, while frequent, lack in numbers and guarding MIGs can clear them up well. Sadly, while it is fun to send in a Overlord swarm throughout the city, the mission can (mostly) easily be cheesed with the level 3 artillery power, as it is strong and more importantly, staggered enough to take out the key GLA buildings, save for the the final one in the mountain base, and their rebuilding hole effect in a single volley. Thus all you really need to do is sit back, handle any attacks thrown your way, and take down each building one by one until that single building is left, THEN, send in the Overlords, or well flown MIGs. In any case, it is nice that FINALLY the game is throwing an actual challenge your way after numerous fairly easy maps, outside of maybe mission 3.
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Aug 19, 2021 08:53
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Mark me down as another who constantly quoted Overlords. But also the nuke cannons. Behold, the bringer of light.
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Aug 19, 2021 08:56
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Jobbo_Fett posted:A Gatling turret gives stealth detection. Red Guards/Tank Hunters don't get the horde effect unless they have it when they enter. Red Guards can't attack air units. I think Gatling Cannons shoot faster than Red Guards as well. They also outrange stinger sites, which was demonstrated in the video. Bonkers.
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Aug 19, 2021 09:10
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The way I played (not that I played for long, and I mostly just did skirmishes and the other mode in Zero Hour) was to just stuff everything I possibly could with rocket soldiers. The more rockets the better. Sure, maybe rockets aren't technically anti-infantry weapons, but if you get enough of them in one place, anything's an anti-infantry weapon.
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Aug 19, 2021 09:52
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Personally, we've yet to see my favorite take on the series on the super-tank, but I think that's coming up in the next game. Something about the sound effects of the upgraded weapons for that one feels so very right.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:22
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Jobbo_Fett posted:
And as we've seen already with those toxin-spewing vehicles the GLA uses, it doesn't take much to eliminate an entire group of infantry garrisoned inside of a building when facing one of those.
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Aug 19, 2021 14:14
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I used Overlord bunkers so little because it's a pain to build one Overlord, upgrade it with the bunker, build five rocket guys and then send it forward. All this while the overlord is already great against other vehicles, and aircraft (and infantry) can be shredded by its gatling turret anyways. I didn't even know the bunkers can be cleared out by anti-garrison weapons, which is ludicrous to me at this price point.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:26
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The big lure of Overlord bunkers, to me, is if you've captured US or GLA tech. US and GLA infantry have some units that do things China can't natively, and sticking five of them on an Overlord can be a useful way to bring them along.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:39
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Minor bug note: if you're in single player and the game goes into an in-engine cutscene, any hackers you have deployed and accruing funds will undeploy themselves and stop. It's an issue that only comes up in two Chinese missions in the original Generals; unfortunately, they are both missions where hackers are your only means of acquiring funds. As for the most recent mission, for me it really brought home the specific weaknesses of the Chinese as the slow brute-force faction. Unlike the other two factions, the Chinese don't really have the ability to rapidly project power across the map or to quickly establish and fortify distant outposts in the mid-late stages of the game. Both the USA and GLA can easily move units around to capture derricks or knock out a forward base, but if the Chinese in the base game want to do anything, they have to walk every step of the way. And when all of their units are mainly slow, heavily armored units that don't turn or change direction particularly quickly, that means urban maps become a special type of hell where garrisoned buildings, Stinger Sites, and Demo Traps will chew your forces up as you try to fight through narrow streets. For maps like this I eventually just gave up on armor, turtled up my defenses and built a massive airbase where I'd just have waves of MiGs on endless firebombing runs to burn out all the entrenched defenses. I'm not really sure what's going on with "Aldastan". The implication seems to be that it's a new country created by the merger of Kyrgyzstan and Tajikistan, but the game uses the names of the original countries interchangeably. I wonder if this was some part of the story that got radically reworked in development. Honestly, there's a lot of weird goofs and mistakes in Central Asian geography throughout Generals, and by the time we hit the USA campaign they just stop bothering to tie maps to real-world locations.
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Aug 19, 2021 22:29
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I think Overlord tanks may be the most OP incarnation of the Mammoth in any C&C game. With the right split of upgrades, a group of Overlords can be pretty much invincible against the AI. Human enemies, of course, have a variety of solutions, but on most difficulties it makes "attack+move" the winning strategy.
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Aug 19, 2021 22:31
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It should be noted that, in usual C&C super tank fashion, Overlords can crush other vehicles. I think the only exception is fellow Overlords? Granted you'd probably be wasting a lot of firepower trying to do that against most enemy vehicles, since they're almost all faster than Overlords and can get out of the way if you ever tried that, but it's still a pretty cool feature.
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Aug 19, 2021 23:33
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the overlord gatling cannons will detect GLA demo traps, but they won't automatically engage. this unfortunate quirk cost me many overlords when I played this one
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Aug 20, 2021 00:37
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Cythereal posted:Personally, we've yet to see my favorite take on the series on the super-tank, but I think that's coming up in the next game. Something about the sound effects of the upgraded weapons for that one feels so very right. Radio Free Kobold posted:the overlord gatling cannons will detect GLA demo traps, but they won't automatically engage. this unfortunate quirk cost me many overlords when I played this one
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Aug 20, 2021 14:39
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The Overlord's voice lines are good, it's powerful, it's flexible, it doesn't make me cringe in hindsight like the dozer. All that makes it a very good tank regardless of its exact position in the C&C tank list, in my view. It's top tier, for sure. I tried bunkers for a while but it was too much micro to get them built, filled, and sent out at a reasonable pace; eventually like jobbo and most people here I just went for a lot of gatling and a few speaker towers. Psion fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 17:33
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Wondering about the precise location of the missions is probably wasted effort. This game came out in 2003 in the height of war-on-terror rhetoric; it's set in The Extremely Islamic Republic of Terrorstan and doesn't even try to be realistic.
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Aug 20, 2021 18:06
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Loxbourne posted:Wondering about the precise location of the missions is probably wasted effort. This game came out in 2003 in the height of war-on-terror rhetoric; it's set in The Extremely Islamic Republic of Terrorstan and doesn't even try to be realistic. I have to continue the bit!
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Aug 20, 2021 18:27
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At some point you're going to have to give up and just put up "Islamist Terrorist Federation, the Western Psyche since 2001". This game is basically the anti Metal Wolf Chaos.
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Aug 20, 2021 20:41
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China 06: Dead In Their Tracks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6nKBglS9CQ China 06: Dead In Their Tracks Despite their defeat in Balykchy, the GLA's presence in Aldastan is still sizeable. Reports are arriving that the previous capital of Kyrgyzstan, Bishkek, is being reinforced, as well as being a traffic hub for mobilizing troops across the country. Destroying this vital artery of supplies and manpower will prove useful to us if we plan to continue our advance and wipe out the GLA once and for all!  I'm not actually sure if the river and train bridge are supposed to imply something with Afghanistan, as I couldn't spot any river that would make sense other than the Chu river. Location: Bishkek, Kyrgyzstan, Aldastan Objective: Destroy the transportation hub in use by the GLA forces. Author's note: The lack of additional hackers really harms this mission. By the time you've cleared the majority of the map, you end up waiting for cash in order to progress... N/A N/A Aftermath: With the bridge out, GLA forces will have a much harder time travelling across the country, seriously hampering their ability to react to the Chinese offensive.
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Aug 21, 2021 03:34
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Hey look! First mission where nobody got clowned on in the intro. Edit: Angry mobs clearly should have been a british unit Veloxyll fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2021 04:08
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I remember trying to go straight up the west side of the map and it being an absolute nightmare. The game says to do china first, but that has nothing to do with the difficulty of the campaigns. This mission and the next are rough if you don't know what you're doing.
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Aug 21, 2021 04:08
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| # ? Jun 2, 2024 02:45 |
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I always remembered this mission being inordinately though because of the football stadium, and I always thought (until now) that the stadium started spawning angry mobs on a timer, and it wasn't based on location. I usually setup a couple of Dragon Tanks with their firewall ability to cover the entrances to the bases, creating a toasty barrier between you and the angry mobs. This time around, after doing that, I found the Arms Dealer (for the first time ever) and bought a few of quad cannons to clear out that side of the map for Lotus. When you see the supply stashes and clear out the enemies around it, you pretty much have infinite cash to do whatever (as long as you cash hack it  ). Afterwards it's just a matter of creating a critical mass of Dragon Tanks to destroy the stadium and clear out the city as much as possible. When your dragon tanks die, you can just create a mass of Battlemasters and clear out the rest of the map.Even if not by much, this mission is a better no-build one just because that you don't have hackers available to create at the start. At least you have to fight your way to pretty much infinite cash. The GLA is way more passive this time around than I remembered, which is odd.
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Aug 21, 2021 04:33
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