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Herstory Begins Now posted:this is a pretty poor example given how massively hung-up a ton of anglos and americans are on their anglo saxon or norman or danish raider or norwegian viking ancestry it's a great example because Hitler/Nazis specifically used viking archaelogical finds to add a thin layer of legitimacy to their iconography and symbolism but mostly had 20th century motivations and drivers(ie desire for power and agency post wwi, sense of national pride that had nothing to do with that) sure they pulled the swastika from a viking find and used it but they also used the term "socialism" in their party which was a directly modern appropriation edit: you'd be much better off talking about how "blaming everything bad on the jews" has a thousand year old history in the region which, it does, and that's why they went with it for WW2 Jaxyon fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Aug 18, 2021 |
# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:19 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 05:21 |
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Jaxyon posted:it's a great example because Hitler/Nazis specifically used viking archaelogical finds to add a thin layer of legitimacy to their iconography and symbolism but mostly had 20th century motivations and drivers(ie desire for power and agency post wwi, sense of national pride that had nothing to do with that) yeah
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:27 |
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I know pointing out hypocrisy is trite and useless but I feel like a lot of the people decrying the US for supposedly turning Afghanistan into a charnel house are marxist-leninists or socialists, whereas in reality the USSR's efforts to prop up the central government and spread marxist ideology beyond the cities and into the hinterlands resulted in literally ten times the amount of people that US efforts ever did. it seems self evident that Soviet ROE were far more lax and their tactics were far more brutal yet the American occupation represents the height of imperialism to modern day MLs (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:37 |
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I might be falling for clickbait, but CNN just reported this: https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/afghanistan-taliban-us-news-08-18-21/h_b11fdb80790fc57e43797a33c0044895 quote:The US embassy in Kabul advised American citizens today that the US government cannot ensure safe passage to the airport for those looking to flee the country. I can't tell if that's a horrible development or just poor writing by the man/woman handling the security alerts. Maybe it's just telling US citizens they can make a judgment call about going to the airport if they have the means, but they won't be provided the kind of armed security that would absolutely guarantee safe passage?
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:41 |
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Here's an interesting (45 minutes or so) documentary on Afghanistan in the 60s and 70s, if you want to see just how bullshit the "constant war and isolation from the world" line actually is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co9buL2OwTk You can make whatever arguments you like about who's responsible for what in the aftermath, but I think it helps contextualize the fact that Afghanistan as it's been in my lifetime, is not the sum total of what it is even just in living memory, not to say anything of the centuries past.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:47 |
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Gaupo Guacho posted:I know pointing out hypocrisy is trite and useless but I feel like a lot of the people decrying the US for supposedly turning Afghanistan into a charnel house are marxist-leninists or socialists, whereas in reality the USSR's efforts to prop up the central government and spread marxist ideology beyond the cities and into the hinterlands resulted in literally ten times the amount of people that US efforts ever did. it seems self evident that Soviet ROE were far more lax and their tactics were far more brutal yet the American occupation represents the height of imperialism to modern day MLs I think a lot of socialists are bothered by stuff like that, even if they're uncomfortable bringing it up because it divides the left and it feels kind of pointless to deflect from focusing on America's crimes today to critique the Soviet Union since it doesn't exist anymore. I'm not really a leftist, but I think it's pretty reasonable for people to hold their own society to a higher standard than others, even if that can get a bit solipsistic if taken too far. Tankies who think imperialism and mass slaughter are cool if done in the name of communism are bad people though, yeah.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:47 |
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Eric Cantonese posted:I can't tell if that's a horrible development or just poor writing by the man/woman handling the security alerts. Maybe it's just telling US citizens they can make a judgment call about going to the airport if they have the means, but they won't be provided the kind of armed security that would absolutely guarantee safe passage? Since yesterday they've been telling American citizens (there's between 10 and 15k of them in Afghanistan) to make their way to Kabul airport for evacuation. They will not be provided assistance. Their safety will not be guaranteed by US Gov resources.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:49 |
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PT6A posted:Here's an interesting (45 minutes or so) documentary on Afghanistan in the 60s and 70s, if you want to see just how bullshit the "constant war and isolation from the world" line actually is: Was this before or after the last King got deposed? From what I understand, he was pretty good at keeping the tribes tied together just enough to keep peace. I don't love monarchies, but it seems like the beginning of the end was when Daoud Khan overthrew him in 1973. Conspiratiorist posted:
I guess this is better than being told to shelter in place?
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:50 |
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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/18/mujahideen-resistance-taliban-ahmad-massoud/ Opinion: The mujahideen resistance to the Taliban begins now. But we need help. Ahmad Massoud is the leader of the National Resistance Front of Afghanistan. quote:In 1998, when I was 9 years old, my father, the mujahideen commander Ahmad Shah Massoud, gathered his soldiers in a cave in the Panjshir Valley of northern Afghanistan. They sat and listened as my father’s friend, French philosopher Bernard-Henri Lévy, addressed them. “When you fight for your freedom,” Lévy said, “you fight also for our freedom.” TLDR: the Northern Alliance would like guns and money from the United States to keep the civil war going.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:52 |
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Eric Cantonese posted:I might be falling for clickbait, but CNN just reported this: It sounds like it’s warning about how you should go to the airport port they arnt sure if every single American can get a escort because of how spread out people are. The sad thing is the vague wording is probably more to do with legal stuff then anything.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:52 |
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I don't see the Taliban agreeing to allowing American patrols in the streets of Kabul again, so unless we want to reinvade the city, I don't know how the US is supposed to guarantee their security. The US is obviously communicating with the Taliban via back channels and I assume wouldn't be telling people to go to the airport if they thought the Taliban would detain them on the spot. The one suggestion I've seen for how an orderly withdrawal might have been possible would be to do it in the winter, but obviously Trump didn't start it last winter/it was too soon for Biden to realistically do it, and the Taliban probably weren't inclined to wait until this coming winter when they were told we'd be out sooner.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:54 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/18/mujahideen-resistance-taliban-ahmad-massoud/ Greaaaat. Sure haven't been here before.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 20:58 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/18/mujahideen-resistance-taliban-ahmad-massoud/ Will be interesting to see what happens with this guy. Also the wiki page for this movement is being considered for deletion already lol - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panjshir_resistance Thom12255 fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Aug 18, 2021 |
# ? Aug 18, 2021 21:01 |
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Conspiratiorist posted:
Yeah, that’s a hosed up version with of legal wording. I have a job with a lot of that kind of language and your taught to be extremely vague yet specific with wording. Like obviously they will try to get every American out and it sounds like the taliban is cool with that and even cool with escorting some of the people out because “making sure they out” and they want to look like the future government. Anyway I think the us is gonna try to provide escorts for most folks. This is just how shits worded as a disclaimer. Sir Kodiak posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/18/mujahideen-resistance-taliban-ahmad-massoud/ If that stuff does happen. It won’t happen openly until we are done evacuating and even then it won’t be “openly”.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 21:04 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:TLDR: the Northern Alliance would like guns and money from the United States to keep the civil war going. a land war, in asia? turns out we're fresh on the market for that!! where do we sign up
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 21:10 |
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Eric Cantonese posted:Was this before or after the last King got deposed? From what I understand, he was pretty good at keeping the tribes tied together just enough to keep peace. I don't love monarchies, but it seems like the beginning of the end was when Daoud Khan overthrew him in 1973. Most of it was pre-'73 I gather (I think there's probably footage from both periods? they don't specify dates) but it didn't really stop until '78.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 21:39 |
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Eric Cantonese posted:Was this before or after the last King got deposed? From what I understand, he was pretty good at keeping the tribes tied together just enough to keep peace. I don't love monarchies, but it seems like the beginning of the end was when Daoud Khan overthrew him in 1973. he was alive into the beginning of the taliban era because he was couped while he was away i believe. i have to listen to the lions led by donkeys podcast on it.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 21:46 |
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Al-Saqr posted:I am sick and tired of idiots trying to tie political events from 1400 years ago to today as if theirs any relationship whatsoever Seriously, let's go check in on what Europe was up to 500 years ago, oh god they're killing each other over the right way to eat a cracker what
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 21:58 |
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Eric Cantonese posted:Was this before or after the last King got deposed? From what I understand, he was pretty good at keeping the tribes tied together just enough to keep peace. I don't love monarchies, but it seems like the beginning of the end was when Daoud Khan overthrew him in 1973. From the Hazara point of view his "keeping the tribes together" largely took the form of a (skillfully constructed it must be said) bureaucratic oppression and atomization of the Hazara, and the implementation of programs that subjugated the Hazara to Pashtun dominance on the local level, instead of merely on the national level. Zahir was lucky in getting deposed before alot of the landmines of tension he was planting exploded.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 22:29 |
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VitalSigns posted:Seriously, let's go check in on what Europe was up to 500 years ago, oh god they're killing each other over the right way to eat a cracker what yeah. dipshit "historians" lean to hard "ME was always quagmire of violence forever" its like sure there were times when the ottomans and other regional powers fighting fighting each other in their border regions and in the latter ottoman empire era when poo poo started imploding and countries started to try leaving them, stuff was violent and bad but for the most part it was like living in all empires/big powers. it was mostly peaceful but it depended where you were. both europe and china/east asia had way more longer violent periods then ME.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 23:10 |
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How are u posted:Shot in the streets for the crime of taking down the Taliban flag and putting up the old flag. Not a great sign at all. it seems like a fairly neutral sign to me, honestly. it's definitely bad but i don't think that afghan national army (when it still existed) would have reacted any differently to a group taking down their flag and putting up the Taliban one. or the americans, for that matter, especially circa late 2001/early 2002.
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# ? Aug 18, 2021 23:13 |
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shimmy shimmy posted:it seems like a fairly neutral sign to me, honestly. it's definitely bad but i don't think that afghan national army (when it still existed) would have reacted any differently to a group taking down their flag and putting up the Taliban one. or the americans, for that matter, especially circa late 2001/early 2002. Neither the ANA nor the Americans would have shot any civilians in that situation because as long as the people shot were males between the ages of 15 and 60 they would have been classified as terrorists.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 01:18 |
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Little curious but what are between 10k-15k Americans doing in Afghanistan if they aren’t military or family members of embassy workers? I can picture some Americans, maybe visiting families or something, and maybe some touristy types, but that seems like a ton of Americans.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 01:54 |
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buglord posted:Little curious but what are between 10k-15k Americans doing in Afghanistan if they aren’t military or family members of embassy workers? I can picture some Americans, maybe visiting families or something, and maybe some touristy types, but that seems like a ton of Americans. I'm curious myself. Could be a lot of NGO charity people? Workers tied to infrastructure projects?
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 01:55 |
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Eric Cantonese posted:I'm curious myself. Could be a lot of NGO charity people? Workers tied to infrastructure projects? generalized heroin smuggling support staff
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 04:36 |
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I feel stupid overlooking this, but there are almost certainly a lot of Afghan-Americans in that number. The NY Times had a piece on one couple’s struggles getting to the airport. Sounds horrible. https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/08/18/world/taliban-afghanistan-news/an-american-couple-filmed-their-desperate-bid-to-escape-kabul quote:The Afghan American couple visiting Afghanistan for a wedding had finally made it through the Taliban checkpoints outside Kabul’s international airport, but the airport itself was still out of reach, a tall barricade of scraggly concertina wire separating them from American troops, their weapons at the ready. They were helped out by Senator Tom Cotton of all people.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 05:15 |
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Sir Kodiak posted:https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/08/18/mujahideen-resistance-taliban-ahmad-massoud/ The Northern Alliance being led by a man in his early thirties with zero experience in warfare, politics, or leadership isn't a good omen for their chances, but I guess the pro-US forces will die as they lived - led by an inexperienced failson whose whole life has been shaped by nepotism, chosen because he had lots of Western connections and his dad had lots of powerful connections in Afghanistan. Ahmad Massoud - eldest son of the famed Lion of Panjshir - spent the Trump administration at college in the UK, and then returned home to Afghanistan to take up his first ever job...as CEO of his uncle's nonprofit foundation. I wonder how much good his bachelor's degree in War Sciences is gonna be against seasoned militants who've been fighting the US all this time.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 05:24 |
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I assume the plan is to just get as much money as possible from all the various 'but we should do something!!' people and any branches of the usg that have money and still think we should be involved. Presumably the plan is then to either disappear or, if it seems sustainable, just be symbolic opposition while doing nothing that might risk the gravy train.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 05:37 |
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buglord posted:Little curious but what are between 10k-15k Americans doing in Afghanistan if they aren’t military or family members of embassy workers? I can picture some Americans, maybe visiting families or something, and maybe some touristy types, but that seems like a ton of Americans. They are probably people that provide goods & services to the other Americans (soldiers, mercs, embassy workers). trucutru fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Aug 19, 2021 |
# ? Aug 19, 2021 06:30 |
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https://www.mediamatters.org/media/3964041 Go to 2:50 lol.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 06:43 |
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EU foreign Minister Joseph Borell really setting the priorities for where his head’s at, I will translate what he said:- https://twitter.com/ajabreaking/status/1428255401242472451?s=21 “Borrell: What happened in Afghanistan is a disaster and no one expected the Taliban to gain control so quickly” https://twitter.com/ajabreaking/status/1428256531896733699?s=21 “ Borrell: We are afraid of waves of Afghan refugees flowing to Europe and have made proposals in this regard “ https://twitter.com/ajabreaking/status/1428256783735349255?s=21 Borrell: We have to continue talking to the Taliban despite the lack of political recognition of it“ https://twitter.com/ajabreaking/status/1428258168723984390?s=21 “ Borrell: The important thing now is not to allow Russia and China to control Afghanistan”
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 08:42 |
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Man, if we just hadn't spent the last 20 years failing to control Afghanistan this wouldn't have happened!
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 08:53 |
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Lol. "get our people out!" Star flying people to EU/USA "nonononononono not what I meant!" What a bunch of ghouls. Godspeed Afghanistan. Here's to a better future as peacefully as possible. No harm being optimistic, I guess.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 15:12 |
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Cocaine Bear posted:Lol. A better future in Afghanistan disrespects everything our troops fought for.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 15:17 |
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Cocaine Bear posted:Lol. i do like that its gonna cause more insane rage in the GOP and make them chase another issue in the stupidist ways possible. yeah. i do hope that afganistan has a more peaceful stable future. but watching the various vice videos from a couple weeks/months ago about life in taliban territories makes it sounds like its gonna be just as awful and backwards but this time kids can play soccer sometimes and sometimes women can do some school. TV/music/etc is still banned and severely punished plus the hosed up court poo poo. maybe folks will get lucky and they will moderate out after having to absorb the cities.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 15:53 |
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Dapper_Swindler posted:i do like that its gonna cause more insane rage in the GOP and make them chase another issue in the stupidist ways possible. It's more they will have to moderate to retain the technocrats they'll need for international integration.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 17:09 |
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holy poo poo america lost TWO THOUSAND armoured Vehicles to the taliban:- https://twitter.com/Natsecjeff/status/1428386996473507842?s=20 thats a fuckload of armour
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 17:11 |
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I wonder if we'll be making any kind of deals with them to let us blow up some of the stuff in return for unfreezing some of their assets or removing some sanctions.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 17:12 |
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Al-Saqr posted:holy poo poo america lost TWO THOUSAND armoured Vehicles to the taliban:- These armoured vehicles are MRAPs, which are basically big armored trucks.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 17:14 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 05:21 |
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Sinteres posted:I wonder if we'll be making any kind of deals with them to let us blow up some of the stuff in return for unfreezing some of their assets or removing some sanctions. Nah it'll be something really stupid like cutting a deal to sell parts to them.
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# ? Aug 19, 2021 17:14 |