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Just have a backup plan for when the players instead end up focusing way too much on an inconsequential NPC who they find infinitely more interesting for unfathomable reasons.
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Aug 19, 2021 09:51
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It's work-intensive on the DM's part, but you can use a power vacuum within the town as impetus for her to make her move towards greater status. The mayor is written to be weak, and with the Redbrands gone the town now has no actual defense, whereas before the RBs did the work because of economic self-interest. You could have the Orcs from Wyvern Tor launch raiding parties into the town, which would require the party to go neutralize the threat (and make that side quest make more sense). From there you could have Halia (I think that's her name) agitate for change in the town which brings even more crime and corruption. You could throw the doppelganger in there somewhere to throw the party off completely. I like the idea of having the doppelganger lead a raid against Phandalin disguised as Sildar. Could make for some fun drama. This is a lot of work for you but it's the emergent gameplay that's really interesting. Just follow a "because [inciting incident] -> X person does [thing]" rationale. e: Have raiding parties happen during an overnight long rest. Buildings burning, slaughter in the streets. Heroes thought they'd get to recharge their abilities but woops now you're boned and there's chaos about. Trivia fucked around with this message at 10:53 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 10:49
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Libertad! posted:Just have a backup plan for when the players instead end up focusing way too much on an inconsequential NPC who they find infinitely more interesting for unfathomable reasons. 100% this. You can set bait, but if you want to run this plot then make whoever they end up attaching to the Zhentarim agent.
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Aug 19, 2021 11:56
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Real UK Grime posted:100% this. You can set bait, but if you want to run this plot then make whoever they end up attaching to the Zhentarim agent. I mean, there can be more than 1 agent
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Aug 19, 2021 12:00
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Trivia posted:It's work-intensive on the DM's part, but you can use a power vacuum within the town as impetus for her to make her move towards greater status. The mayor is written to be weak, and with the Redbrands gone the town now has no actual defense, whereas before the RBs did the work because of economic self-interest. You could have the Orcs from Wyvern Tor launch raiding parties into the town, which would require the party to go neutralize the threat (and make that side quest make more sense). From there you could have Halia (I think that's her name) agitate for change in the town which brings even more crime and corruption. Sadly Sildar is already set to be the Sheriff and a bit of shelter early on for the party, he is not someone I am going to have betray them or even look like he will be betraying them. I am actually having a hard time making the doppelganger fit into my re-work though. I don't want them to be a single throwaway encounter either though, given they do have a bit of background. I was thinking maybe have them be a fake Black Spider when the party raid Cragmaw Castle, and also appear later as a fake Gundren so they have to have that painful moment of seeing the look on their beloved mentors face as they kill him. I kinda have the very very premature idea that after Mines the players will move into the two Rise of Tiamat books. So I thought having a Zhent agent they know would be a reasonable base given the plot of there.
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Aug 19, 2021 12:50
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Mr. Lobe posted:I mean, there can be more than 1 agent Yep, my point was more you don't need to decide which cats are in the box until the lid opens. The doppelganger is an interesting one, especially if they are able to surveil the party. We had a player missing during their visit to the keep, so the doppelganger impersonating the absent player's character caused chaos. Not for every group, but it could even do this with a player present at the table, though this is putting a lot more burden on your players to not metagame.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:11
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Doppelgangers are great. One of my favourite moments of recent DnD sessions was my players being lent a book by a royal doctor, to help figure out what was slowly killing the king. Later that night, the royal doctor visited the players in the inn they were staying at, to ask for his book back, to which they obliged. The next day, they met him in the royal castle, and the first thing he asked them was if they brought his book. Their reaction was all I'd hoped for, and they're now trying to figure out who the hell actually visited them that night to get the book.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:32
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Facebook Aunt posted:Probably not, no. I have The Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia (1991) on my bookshelf, if I look it up on ebay it's selling for maybe a hundred bucks. More than I paid, sure, but no fortune. Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Player's Handbook, 2nd Edition Hardcover (1989) is barely fifty bucks. Yeah, I recently bought good quality copies of the core 2nd edition books just because it's the one put of print RPG books I might really want to have 20 or 30 years from now, and it wasn't worse than buying any other RPG set really, comparable to new 5e stuff.
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Aug 19, 2021 13:47
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My group is going to play Rime of the FrostMaiden and I’m tempted to take the doppelgänger secret (DM is letting us pick them, but made the mistake of telling all of us that at the same time so we all planned to tell him individually that we want “Drizzt fan”).
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Aug 19, 2021 13:50
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I kinda feel bad for the LMoP doppelganger in our campaign. The raging elf barbarian "accidentally" one-shot it in the surprise round and we never learned anything about it. At least Black Spider got a round of negotiation after failing to dodge Faerie Fire before we killed him.
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Aug 19, 2021 14:03
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bartolimu posted:I kinda feel bad for the LMoP doppelganger in our campaign. The raging elf barbarian "accidentally" one-shot it in the surprise round and we never learned anything about it. At least Black Spider got a round of negotiation after failing to dodge Faerie Fire before we killed him. My party spied on them and Klarg negotiating, then we lured the bugbear out and I charmed him and locked him in the owlbear room and we just murdered the doppelganger without learning anything about it. Oops! change my name fucked around with this message at 14:39 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 14:11
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I developed an NPC changeling on the fly to be the tavern server at the party's regular hangout. Not only did they roll well enough to notice he was a changeling, the chaos sorcerer used Disguise Self to impersonate the NPC before doing crimes then leaving the campaign entirely due to moving to a different part of the country. We're now doing a spinoff campaign with new characters and they have yet to figure out the changeling's new identity despite "Alucard" levels of subtlety
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Aug 19, 2021 14:21
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cowboy
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bartolimu posted:I kinda feel bad for the LMoP doppelganger in our campaign. The raging elf barbarian "accidentally" one-shot it in the surprise round and we never learned anything about it. At least Black Spider got a round of negotiation after failing to dodge Faerie Fire before we killed him. I am looking forward to juicing up the Black Spider up to be a proper threat for two 4th or 5th level players. See thats the thing if I want to go into RoT after level 5 feels both really good to be starting to want to fight dragons, but really strong for fighting minor cronies.
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Aug 19, 2021 14:33
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I made Nezznar into a Paragon Monster with a transformation phase and my party had an excellent fight that capstoned the module really well. In short, turn that motherfucker into a drider.
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Aug 19, 2021 14:36
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Trivia posted:I made Nezznar into a Paragon Monster with a transformation phase and my party had an excellent fight that capstoned the module really well. I have thought of turning my Nezznar into a Drider at some stage. Maybe mid battle she tries to suck up too much juice from the Forge of Spells and gets Drider'd for her troubles. See my version of Nezznar is attempting to get the power of the Forge of Spells so that she can use it to manufacture weapons and help her in a mad bid to become matron mother of her house (from which she was exiled for failure to do something that won't ever come up). The other idea is to make her an agent of the Bregan D'aerthe, the renegade drow mercenaries cum mercantile group, who is attempting to expand her personal power base. This idea could leave me with a thread to get the party to Waterdeep and get them into Dragon Hiest/Mad Mage (though I've heard both aren't great)
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Aug 19, 2021 15:00
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I had him become transformed as punishment from Lolth for his failures. Sets precedent that the gods are real and crossing them has consequences
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Aug 19, 2021 15:40
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I'm pretty new and had a quick question about my character - I'm not looking to hardcore min/max but my character is kind of carrying combat right now because my other party members are built for support. I am playing Hexblade and have 18 CHA. I have an upcoming ASI and I'm trying to pick between the +2 to CHA or the Great Weapon Master feat. Is the feat worth it over the increase?
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Aug 20, 2021 01:58
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Propane C3H8 posted:I'm pretty new and had a quick question about my character - I'm not looking to hardcore min/max but my character is kind of carrying combat right now because my other party members are built for support. You can do cute things with Great Weapon Master. What Invocations do you have?
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Aug 20, 2021 02:40
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Propane C3H8 posted:I'm pretty new and had a quick question about my character - I'm not looking to hardcore min/max but my character is kind of carrying combat right now because my other party members are built for support. It's boring, but I'm reasonably sure that the ASI is the mathematically best option, for what it's worth. Getting your most important stat to 20 will only very rarely not be the "correct" choice. That said, you'll probably have more fun grabbing Great Weapon Master this time and hitting up the ASI next time so I'd say do that and who gives a toss if you're slightly suboptimal.
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Aug 20, 2021 02:49
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Propane C3H8 posted:I'm pretty new and had a quick question about my character - I'm not looking to hardcore min/max but my character is kind of carrying combat right now because my other party members are built for support. Just to confirm, you are Pact of the Blade, right?
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Aug 20, 2021 03:07
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Toshimo posted:Just to confirm, you are Pact of the Blade, right? Yeah pact of the blade, improved pact weapon and agonizing blast. My DM has given me a specific greatsword pact weapon as part of my pact, so I have a little less utility available in switching weapons and more incentive to focus on the greatsword. Propane C3H8 fucked around with this message at 03:56 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 03:54
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Propane C3H8 posted:Yeah pact of the blade, improved pact weapon and agonizing blast. If you're hitting a level soon you could consider dropping Agonizing Blast (Given you seem to be pretty heavily themed around hitting things with your big sword anyway) and then take Devils Sight; then you can toss out Darkness onto the baddies and get advantage attacking them with GWM for better dice using the 2nd part of it for that extra damage.
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Aug 20, 2021 04:30
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Propane C3H8 posted:Yeah pact of the blade, improved pact weapon and agonizing blast. The ASI literally makes you better at everything you do but chunking dudes with Great Weapon Master is probably more fun overall and does at least give you a decision point when making a melee attack.
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Aug 20, 2021 04:31
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Gridlocked posted:If you're hitting a level soon you could consider dropping Agonizing Blast (Given you seem to be pretty heavily themed around hitting things with your big sword anyway) and then take Devils Sight; then you can toss out Darkness onto the baddies and get advantage attacking them with GWM for better dice using the 2nd part of it for that extra damage. Yeah, I just wanted to make sure I had a ranged attack to fall back on. I definitely want to pick up Devil's sight after I get lifedrinker. I think I'll go with what everyone suggested and grab great weapon master though, it definitely seems like it will be more fun that just being generically powerful.
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Aug 20, 2021 04:44
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Damage-wise, I think Polearm Master pips them both, as it lets you turn your bonus action and reaction into extra attacks. If you're not including polearms in your definition of great weapons (though they do work with GWM), I think spreadsheet-wise GWM and the ASI come out as a wash. It does vary based on the average AC of monsters you're facing though. Also, not having another use for your bonus action puts GWM slightly ahead. Edit: on the Devil's Sight/Darkness combo, it becomes obsolete after level 7 as you're better switching to Shadow of Moil instead.
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Aug 20, 2021 04:48
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Is every 5e module as bad as Storm King's Thunder? The book is just so much aimless, pointless poo poo that goes nowhere. The combat encounters are all hideously unfair. Harshnag is an open invitation for a DMPC, with a tiny warning of "don't let him do too many things but we're not gonna give you any reasons why" I'm pretty galled that this book was recommended to me, because it just sucks.
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Aug 20, 2021 10:00
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If all you are doing is weapon attacks then GWM and an ASI are pretty even. But with both agonizing blast, and consideration on the warlock spells having a good save DC, I'd really just take the ASI.
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Aug 20, 2021 10:38
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inthesto posted:Is every 5e module as bad as Storm King's Thunder? There's other modules that aren't as bad, but pretty much all of the official campaigns have some major, recurring design issues. In general they're all pretty poorly organized, gloss over really important things that are likely to come up in play, devote a ton of page space to pointless minutia that is likely to never come up in play and spend way too much time and effort shoehorning in cameos for characters from D&D tie-in media that the majority of the current player base probably doesn't give a poo poo about.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:18
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inthesto posted:Is every 5e module as bad as Storm King's Thunder? wizards modules are cursed for some reason. they hire good writers and then ignore the writers and make boring crap and it is really unclear why. lost mines is good, i think strahd is fun(but needs a lot of retuning), and ghosts of saltmarsh is nice. other than that though you are best served with third party or homebrew
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Aug 20, 2021 14:22
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KingKalamari posted:There's other modules that aren't as bad, but pretty much all of the official campaigns have some major, recurring design issues. In general they're all pretty poorly organized, gloss over really important things that are likely to come up in play, devote a ton of page space to pointless minutia that is likely to never come up in play and spend way too much time and effort shoehorning in cameos for characters from D&D tie-in media that the majority of the current player base probably doesn't give a poo poo about. I had a lot of fun running Descent into Avernus, but this describes it to a T.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:23
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pog boyfriend posted:wizards modules are cursed for some reason. they hire good writers and then ignore the writers and make boring crap and it is really unclear why. lost mines is good, i think strahd is fun(but needs a lot of retuning), and ghosts of saltmarsh is nice. other than that though you are best served with third party or homebrew Any good third-party modules you would recommend? The only one I've heard good things about is Odyssey of the Dragonlords, but would be interested in knowing more.
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Aug 20, 2021 14:43
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Esposito posted:Any good third-party modules you would recommend? The only one I've heard good things about is Odyssey of the Dragonlords, but would be interested in knowing more. Greg Gillespie's mega-dungeon "The Barrowmaze" has a 5e port. The Hidden Halls of Hazakor is a very nice starter dungeon with associated town, particularly geared to introducing younger players to the game. Legendary Games have ports of most of their major Pathfinder adventure paths. MT Black's work on DM's Guild tends to be pretty solid. The Uncaged series are a pretty solid anthology of short, self-contained adventures. In terms of mini-adventures Kobold Press' "Prepared!" series is pretty solid, as is AAW Game's "Mini-Dungeon Tome"
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Aug 20, 2021 14:59
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KingKalamari posted:There's other modules that aren't as bad, but pretty much all of the official campaigns have some major, recurring design issues. In general they're all pretty poorly organized, gloss over really important things that are likely to come up in play, devote a ton of page space to pointless minutia that is likely to never come up in play and spend way too much time and effort shoehorning in cameos for characters from D&D tie-in media that the majority of the current player base probably doesn't give a poo poo about. Rime seems to avoid most if not all of this, which is surprising when you consider that it's set in Icewind Dale, former home of Drizzt Do'Urden and the Companions of the HallTM.
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Aug 20, 2021 15:08
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inthesto posted:Is every 5e module as bad as Storm King's Thunder? Yeah, we were really disappointed in SKT, as well. Three different questing towns written up in elaborate detail, of which you only use one. Six giant strongholds written out in elaborate detail, of which you only use one. Multiple modes of fast travel around the area, of which you only need one. Dozens of towns written up in detail, most of which you will never visit. 75% of the contents of the module is useless by design. The parts you actually do use are disjointed and difficult to follow. It takes an enormous amount of background work by a very clever DM to make it work. As a player, I thought parts of it were a lot of fun. Most of it was extremely confusing without much actual plot holding it together. We all agreed it was largely a missed opportunity. It could have been so much better with some better editorial work.
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Aug 20, 2021 15:16
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PeterWeller posted:Rime seems to avoid most if not all of this, which is surprising when you consider that it's set in Icewind Dale, former home of Drizzt Do'Urden and the Companions of the HallTM. Our DM took out the Drizzt fan secret because he thought it was dumb and none of those characters even show up, despite there actually being a hook this time! (ie, you head north to meet your hero)
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Aug 20, 2021 15:32
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Deteriorata posted:Yeah, we were really disappointed in SKT, as well. Three different questing towns written up in elaborate detail, of which you only use one. Six giant strongholds written out in elaborate detail, of which you only use one. Multiple modes of fast travel around the area, of which you only need one. Dozens of towns written up in detail, most of which you will never visit. It does have a really extensive write-up for Revel's End, the prison where Vaelish Gant, the bad guy from Legacy of the Crystal Shard, is being held. It gets almost 8 pages of write-up, including a full and completely keyed map and has absolutely no bearing on the story or any of the quests. Even the book's own suggestions to involve the players in this location are super weak ("Uh, maybe they've heard rumours about Vaelish Gant and are wondering what his deal is? Or maybe they want to ask him what those other Arcane Brotherhood members are doing here? He doesn't actually know anything that would be useful to the party, but they might think he does, I guess?").
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Aug 20, 2021 16:04
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KingKalamari posted:It does have a really extensive write-up for Revel's End, the prison where Vaelish Gant, the bad guy from Legacy of the Crystal Shard, is being held. It gets almost 8 pages of write-up, including a full and completely keyed map and has absolutely no bearing on the story or any of the quests. Even the book's own suggestions to involve the players in this location are super weak ("Uh, maybe they've heard rumours about Vaelish Gant and are wondering what his deal is? Or maybe they want to ask him what those other Arcane Brotherhood members are doing here? He doesn't actually know anything that would be useful to the party, but they might think he does, I guess?"). I spared my players that. We've hit Chapter 6 of 7 of Rime and I'm absolutely ready to homebrew a campaign in a Caribbean setting because I'm over DMing this one. I created a festival with minigames, an arena, and mage duels (for the wizard in the party) in Bryn Shander just to have something happy/fun for once.
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Aug 20, 2021 16:35
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Deteriorata posted:Yeah, we were really disappointed in SKT, as well. Three different questing towns written up in elaborate detail, of which you only use one. Six giant strongholds written out in elaborate detail, of which you only use one. Multiple modes of fast travel around the area, of which you only need one. Dozens of towns written up in detail, most of which you will never visit. It almost seems more useful as a source book for a DM to make their own campaign from, rather than a functional and enjoyable adventure itself. I definitely regret buying it without looking up reviews first.
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Aug 20, 2021 17:47
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KingKalamari posted:It does have a really extensive write-up for Revel's End, the prison where Vaelish Gant, the bad guy from Legacy of the Crystal Shard, is being held. It gets almost 8 pages of write-up, including a full and completely keyed map and has absolutely no bearing on the story or any of the quests. Even the book's own suggestions to involve the players in this location are super weak ("Uh, maybe they've heard rumours about Vaelish Gant and are wondering what his deal is? Or maybe they want to ask him what those other Arcane Brotherhood members are doing here? He doesn't actually know anything that would be useful to the party, but they might think he does, I guess?"). Good point. I forgot about him and that place. At least it's a somewhat interesting location and not just some cameo. Mederlock posted:It almost seems more useful as a source book for a DM to make their own campaign from, rather than a functional and enjoyable adventure itself. I definitely regret buying it without looking up reviews first. I get the impression it's almost more of a sourcebook for the North than an adventure.
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Aug 20, 2021 19:47
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inthesto posted:Is every 5e module as bad as Storm King's Thunder? I see it as a skeletal frame work where the DM makes the organs and flesh. I would say the worst thing the book does is not properly sell just how bad the situation with the giants is. It is supposed to be like a zombie apocalypse but with giants, while if you just go by the book they seem like a minor inconvenience. I would say my biggest piece of advice would be to take the part with Zephyros, rip out those pages, wipe your butt with them and flush them down the toilet. Instead introduce a plot hook that makes the party want to actively search for Harshnag, and combine parts 2 and 3. Now the party is wandering around with an actual purpose and you can use more than 1 of the big set battles in part 2. Then really ramp up how devastated the surrounding areas are. I had the entrances of Waterdeep crowded by refugees to drive that point home. Change some of the towns to be out right demolished.
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Aug 20, 2021 23:31
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