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Localized? Hasn’t the “measure in inches” system worked around the world for GW for decades?
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Aug 19, 2021 16:21
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Ghazk posted:
loving lmfao at this
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Aug 19, 2021 16:22
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Absolutely incredible.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:25
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Xenomrph posted:Localized? Hasn’t the “measure in inches” system worked around the world for GW for decades? I assume some places don't use Arabic numbers. Or the were going to use S M L for short/ medium/ long and then went shapes for language localization. (Following the Saga 40k interpretation I'm still on.)
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Aug 19, 2021 16:27
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Does 2 square also work? Help I need assistance with this new math.
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Aug 19, 2021 16:28
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The numbers not having any relation to the shapes owns
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Aug 19, 2021 16:30
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Is it just so that you will have to buy the official GW measuring tools?
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Aug 19, 2021 16:39
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moths posted:I assume some places don't use Arabic numbers. Not targeting you, Moths, as others have also used localization as the reason, but this argument makes no sense - Hindu Arabic numbers are used all over the game and are recognized in the majority of modern countries. Swapping out symbols that most countries use to represent numbers into symbols that NOBODY uses to represent numbers would be so incredibly stupid that it can't possibly be the case. If I'm in a country where, for whatever reason, "3" doesn't mean anything, replacing it with "●" means EXACTLY the same thing to me as using an "M" or a "  " emote. Using the shapes as your proprietary measurement system only serves to put everyone on the same confusing footing and force you to write the above referenced statement in the rulebook instead of the obvious "an operative moves in increments of 1"."
berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 16:45
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There literally isnt a country on the planet that doesnt use arabic numerals. There are a few that have their own, but even they also use arabic numerals alongside. It is the one thing we as a species have universally agreed on. It feels like they initially were going to go purely with arbitrary shape-based distances that don't map cleanly to inches to sell their proprietary tools, but along the way someone went "the gently caress is this" so they changed it to map to inches, making the tool redundant but still kept the shape stuff in. I've griped about the listbuilding, but the rules are otherwise great, except for this one extremely  thing.
Geisladisk fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Aug 19, 2021 |
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Aug 19, 2021 17:05
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I’m going to play the game and I’m going to love the beautiful shapes
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Aug 19, 2021 17:27
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How did nobody at GW think to at least match shape sizes to the number value?
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Aug 19, 2021 17:38
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Xenomrph posted:Localized? Hasn’t the “measure in inches” system worked around the world for GW for decades? GW uses Imperial for measuring and Metric for base sizes. Are we really THAT surprised they would eventually figure out another measuring system to throw into a game? Ghazk posted:
It's dumb, but at least I can see them putting that into a book because they foresaw the "But can I use the pentagon for 3 circles? Lawl" idiots wasting everyone's time and tried to nip it in the bud.
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Aug 19, 2021 17:49
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Circledari (TM) Trianganid (TM) Squarruk (TM) Primaris Pentagon (TM)
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Aug 19, 2021 17:50
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berzerkmonkey posted:Swapping out symbols that most countries use to represent numbers into symbols that NOBODY uses to represent numbers would be so incredibly stupid that it can't possibly be the case. That makes a lot of sense. I really do think someone at GW played Saga and was like "gently caress let's do this" and the shapes are meant as global stand-ins for S M & L. So they're replacements for letters which were themselves replacements for numbers. I doubt we'll ever get confirmation on this, because they'd need to acknowledge being influenced by an indie game. But there's a lot of Saga peeking through the seams of Kill Team and that's great.
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Aug 19, 2021 18:02
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moths posted:That makes a lot of sense. I really do think someone at GW played Saga and was like "gently caress let's do this" and the shapes are meant as global stand-ins for S M & L. So they're replacements for letters which were themselves replacements for numbers. The ONLY non-"proprietary measuring tool that you can't legally duplicate" reason I can come up with as to why GW is using the shapes in this manner was that they originally had intended to do something similar to BSF where the shapes represented different dice for range and damage, then later decided it was too complicated or bogged things down too much. Molds had already been cut at that time, and it was too late to fully back off, so they had to form the rules around the shapes. No other explanation makes sense to me, since even S / M / L would still have worked, even in non-english countries, since they're still just symbols representing a range band. I dunno.
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Aug 19, 2021 18:25
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It might also have keyed to a gimmick die that's no longer involved. SM&L in another language would have worked functionally, but design generally hates to remind an audience that their language was an afterthought.
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Aug 19, 2021 18:28
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i'm just gonna have a cheat sheet with circle = this and pentagon = that And then then just measure poo poo in inches
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Aug 19, 2021 18:29
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Can't wait until KT 4.0 launches with numbers as a feature
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Aug 19, 2021 20:17
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How about Roman numerals? I, II, III, IV, V, VI
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Aug 19, 2021 20:58
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The entire rule set is written in binary. You want numbers? We’ll give you loving numbers. Omnissiah be praised
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Aug 19, 2021 21:15
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Virtual Russian posted:I took that list for another spin - got absolutely slaughtered this time. Right on. Yeah for assaults, aspect warriors are a big upgrade over guardians, especially if you pick the assault-focused ones. But then you're trading off a lot of points cost. Space marines are just a really good tough army in Epic though, keep that in mind, and assault marines in particular are... good at assaults. I've always struggled against a good Marine list. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 00:23 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 00:09
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berzerkmonkey posted:The ONLY non-"proprietary measuring tool that you can't legally duplicate" reason I can come up with as to why GW is using the shapes in this manner was that they originally had intended to do something similar to BSF where the shapes represented different dice for range and damage, then later decided it was too complicated or bogged things down too much. Molds had already been cut at that time, and it was too late to fully back off, so they had to form the rules around the shapes. No other explanation makes sense to me, since even S / M / L would still have worked, even in non-english countries, since they're still just symbols representing a range band. I dunno. This is the only scenario that makes any sense to me.
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Aug 20, 2021 00:20
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Having lived in multiple countries where roman alphabets aren't used, SML is about as universally used and understood as Arabic numerals. Globalization is a thing.
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Aug 20, 2021 01:59
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Xenomrph posted:Localized? Hasn’t the “measure in inches” system worked around the world for GW for decades? I haven't seen an Spanish rulebook in ages, but I remember a WFB rulebook that used "Movement Units (MU)" instead of inches, as in, 1 UM was the same as 1 inch, but I guess they didn't want us to know we were actually using the imperial system.
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Aug 20, 2021 02:44
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Leperflesh posted:Right on. Yeah for assaults, aspect warriors are a big upgrade over guardians, especially if you pick the assault-focused ones. But then you're trading off a lot of points cost. Yeah Marines played well are very formidable. Also yes, picking a unit of aspect warriors would really upgrade my list's raw power, but would cost me an entire activation.
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Aug 20, 2021 02:58
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radlum posted:I haven't seen an Spanish rulebook in ages, but I remember a WFB rulebook that used "Movement Units (MU)" instead of inches, as in, 1 UM was the same as 1 inch, but I guess they didn't want us to know we were actually using the imperial system. That’s also a common trope i historical games though, as it makes it easy to use the game with different scales. So for 28mm minis you can use 1 inch as the MU, while you can use 1 cm if you scale it down to 10mm minis for example. It’s not bad to use an alternative to inches (like MUs or S/M/L). It’s insane to swap it for several different unrelared glyphs.
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Aug 20, 2021 06:46
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It'd be fine if they were using ork glyphs.
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Aug 20, 2021 07:13
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Annoyed. If the octarius box had the compendium in it, it'd be an instant buy for me. I have enough dudes from various factions around to make a few kill teams, making more of those is a lot more appealing than going full size 40k, I'm ok with the DKoK but the Kommandos look fantastic. The book being the extra on top of the box is rubbing me really badly. I know :files: are a thing but I'd prefer not to. e: Preorders on GW Australia just went up too. Eediot Jedi fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Aug 21, 2021 |
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Aug 21, 2021 02:51
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Eediot Jedi posted:Annoyed. If the octarius box had the compendium in it, it'd be an instant buy for me. I have enough dudes from various factions around to make a few kill teams, making more of those is a lot more appealing than going full size 40k, I'm ok with the DKoK but the Kommandos look fantastic. yeah it's the worst part of what otherwise seems like an awesome new edition. 100 bucks for the rules alone is too much, and they also want you to buy their essentials kit for the combat gauges which is another 35 bucks. I've had a hard time getting my friends excited about this
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Aug 21, 2021 03:07
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Booyah- posted:yeah it's the worst part of what otherwise seems like an awesome new edition. 100 bucks for the rules alone is too much, and they also want you to buy their essentials kit for the combat gauges which is another 35 bucks. I've had a hard time getting my friends excited about this And that's before you've bought a single miniature, assuming you're new.
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Aug 21, 2021 14:38
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I just want the Ork Kommandos, but I'm not paying $285 retail or $240  "bargain prices" for that box for a game I'd need to flip.Maybe eBay will pan out, or the Kommandos box won't be mega bucks in 6 months 
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Aug 21, 2021 15:47
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Hopefully the Kill Teams end up around the price of what a Warcry warband costs. I could see them jacking up the price a little cause it's 40K, but that's the price point I hope they aim for. If the individual teams are mega-expensive along with the rules, then I have no idea how they expect this game to survive past the initial hype (which is already pretty dire).
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Aug 21, 2021 16:28
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Time for ACTUAL HOBBIT-POSTIN I finally got off my rear end and finished some Hobbits to tag along with my Ringwraiths  I tried OSL for the first time ever!  And they're now at home in the Weathertop 3D print  Not a cell phone in sight. Just 9 friends living in the moment
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Aug 21, 2021 22:39
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Desfore posted:Hopefully the Kill Teams end up around the price of what a Warcry warband costs. Yeah $50 is a LOT for the rules, and $200 is a pricey box, but you're not going to get away cheaply buying everything piecemeal.
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Aug 22, 2021 20:26
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BaronVanAwesome posted:Time for ACTUAL HOBBIT-POSTIN Those are great! I have some LOTR minis lying around I really ought to paint one of these days
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Aug 22, 2021 21:06
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berzerkmonkey posted:You are aware the Warcry warbands are already $55 USD, right? They normally have fewer models too, so even if GW puts the KTs out at that price, you're paying a minimum of $120 for the two and $35 for the tools, so you're dropping $155 when you could spend $200 and get all that, the rule book, the Octarius lists and the ork fort for the remaining $45. Yes, buying the Octarius box is a much better deal than trying to buy everything piecemeal, but that doesn't matter to what I was saying. I was saying, when GW releases the Krieg and Kommando's as individual boxes, I really hope they stick to a similar system they had with Warcry. Granted, $50 for a box of 11 or 12 new GW models is almost absurd looking at their current prices, but imagining a new KT player looking to pick up a team at $60/$70 or more, on top of the rules, accessories, and probably a separately sold Octarius Mission manual (because those teams aren't in the Compendium), just makes me think how put off a new player would be. Remember, this box was a limited release. If you didn't already pre-order it, depending on how the supply shakes out, you might be hosed. It doesn't matter that just buying the complete box is a better deal than piecemeal, when in a few months your only options will be eBay or piecemeal. So just saying, "Sure, every piece of this game is expensive, but just buy the package deal!" doesn't work once the package is gone, and for people that just bought the compendium and want to pick up the teams later. Plus, I'd like it if future teams were around $50, so I wouldn't have to deal with more box sets after this.
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Aug 22, 2021 22:51
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What is the actual street date for the Octarius Kill Team box? I have no clue why I am struggling to find this info. I’m just going to blame my job.
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Aug 23, 2021 16:49
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Saturday, theoretically.
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Aug 23, 2021 18:14
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Work has finally cleared up a bit so I have time to do some painting, which means it's Bone Bois Begin AKA It's Grime Time 
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Aug 24, 2021 13:41
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Leperflesh posted:Right on. Yeah for assaults, aspect warriors are a big upgrade over guardians, especially if you pick the assault-focused ones. But then you're trading off a lot of points cost. Got another game in, swapped out 2 guardians for aspects, managed a win. Was up vs orks, they did a lot of damage, wiping the guardians in an assault, but the aspect warriors had three successful assaults. At the end of turn 3 all I had left was 3 dire avengers, so they took some serious hits, but they punched way above their weight. I'm really liking the wraithgate for minigeddon. The smaller map really adds utility to it.
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Aug 25, 2021 06:54
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