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sweet geek swag posted:There have been multiple character teasers, they're just being used in targeted marketing. Were the Sanderson books actually good? I recently tried a full re-read, since I'd gone part-way through in high school, but as soon as I started Sanderson's books there was just something about the writing in the first few chapters that made me disinclined to continue. If they get better, I'll try again.
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Aug 13, 2021 16:15
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Pham Nuwen posted:Were the Sanderson books actually good? I recently tried a full re-read, since I'd gone part-way through in high school, but as soon as I started Sanderson's books there was just something about the writing in the first few chapters that made me disinclined to continue. If they get better, I'll try again. I thought they were pretty great and certainly a breath of fresh air after the Winter’s Heart etc slog portion. I really bounce off Sanderson’s other stuff but enjoyed his WoT books and was very happy to have a conclusion to the series.
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Aug 13, 2021 17:20
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Pham Nuwen posted:Were the Sanderson books actually good? I recently tried a full re-read, since I'd gone part-way through in high school, but as soon as I started Sanderson's books there was just something about the writing in the first few chapters that made me disinclined to continue. If they get better, I'll try again. They're better than they should be but Sanderson isn't the writer Jordan was; e.g., he uses anachronistic words like "politics" that Jordan scrupulously avoided, etc. There are also parts that read like Jordan's first draft.
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Aug 13, 2021 18:31
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sweet geek swag posted:There have been multiple character teasers, they're just being used in targeted marketing. That sounds about like my experience; I remember virtually nothing from the books except that by the time I got through book 7 I was pretty tired of all the setup with no payoff.
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Aug 13, 2021 18:38
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I was happy to have a reasonably-paced ending to WoT, though I'm less enthusiastic about Sanderson's other stuff than some people I know. Overall they were pretty satisfying, though I found some of the heavily-foreshadowed parts a little anti-climactic. High-school me would have been elated to know that high-budget Tolkien and Robert Jordan TV shows were on the way. I am curious how the TV show is going to handle all the weird gender stuff in WoT, though.
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Aug 13, 2021 19:01
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Omnomnomnivore posted:I am curious how the TV show is going to handle all the weird gender stuff in WoT, though. You mean the part about how there's MAN MAGIC and WOMAN MAGIC, and they are exactly as you'd expect someone writing stereotypical man magic and woman magic to write them? Or the part where all the characters are like "haha god drat I like to look at asses, those are some good asses, but i'm a real pervert for thinking that, not like <my friend>, who knows all about <opposite sex>"?
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Aug 13, 2021 21:37
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On the flip side I’d fuckin kill to see trans Aes Sedai who are obviously women cause they use woman magic and who gives a gently caress what people thought they were before?? Makes a nice setup for when ________ gets automatically upgraded to full Aes Sedai without being actually inducted because she’s been politically installed as their leader and that automatically makes her one.
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Aug 13, 2021 21:43
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Pham Nuwen posted:You mean the part about how there's MAN MAGIC and WOMAN MAGIC, and they are exactly as you'd expect someone writing stereotypical man magic and woman magic to write them? The second at least is super easy to remove in adaptation. As for Sanderson's stuff I hadn't read any of his work before his WoT finale, and I agree that while it wasn't precisely Jordan's level of polish some ways he kept it interesting and well-paced.
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Aug 13, 2021 22:12
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Goblin Craft posted:That sounds about like my experience; I remember virtually nothing from the books except that by the time I got through book 7 I was pretty tired of all the setup with no payoff. yeah, if the series had been cut in to 3 books it could have been decent
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Aug 14, 2021 10:22
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So is Turin just an rear end in a top hat or is it Morgoth's curse that makes him an rear end in a top hat?
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Aug 19, 2021 13:52
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Mukulu posted:So is Turin just an rear end in a top hat or is it Morgoth's curse that makes him an rear end in a top hat? Technically speaking, everyone who is an rear end in a top hat is made an rear end in a top hat by Morgoth’s evil which suffuses creation and pollutes all incarnate beings Also worth considering that his entire life was destroyed when he was a child and he’s a wandering refugee in a land shattered by war despite having been raised to consider himself a righteous lordling
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Aug 19, 2021 14:29
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Mukulu posted:So is Turin just an rear end in a top hat or is it Morgoth's curse that makes him an rear end in a top hat? I always thought Turin was interesting in comparison to a Beowulf-like character. To some extent, he's bound to be sort of an rear end in a top hat from our viewpoint, but not necessarily from the viewpoint of the other characters in the setting, because he is a "manly leader of manly Men" in the context of the setting who solves problems by killing things and making elaborate shows of bravery, and requiring that his birthright be acknowledged. Out of place to a modern reader, but he fits right in for his time. Like Beowulf, he travels around to different groups, solving their problems via bravery and aggression and winning local acclaim. Without Morgoth's curse, maybe this would be where he ends up, with a favored place in Doriath or maybe as the petty king of some other human settlement if he got bored hanging out with elves. I don't think he could have taken his homeland back from the Easterlings, because overall mythohistoric forces are too opposed to that at the time, but maybe he would have died there in glorious battle or something. His arrogance (as we would perceive it) would have been celebrated and essentially positive for him. Instead, because of Morgoth's curse, he sabotaged his relationships with his benefactors or social superiors, and caused disruption wherever he went. This is the part where he was an rear end in a top hat from the standpoint of both the reader and (at least many of) the characters in his story. This poisoning of his social network led him to be pushed farther and farther into isolation and then reaction, and ultimately snowballing into all the tragedies of his tale. Arrogance turns into hubris, which even the First Age folks didn't like, and Turin becomes an anti-hero. skasion posted:Also worth considering that his entire life was destroyed when he was a child and he’s a wandering refugee in a land shattered by war despite having been raised to consider himself a righteous lordling This is true enough, but not super deterministic in the setting of the story. A non-Morgoth-cursed Turin could have risen out of that background to be successful in the ways I describe above. We would certainly consider it massively traumatic, but for First Age heroes it's just how things were. So, in summary, mostly because of Morgoth.
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Aug 19, 2021 17:02
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Thanks for both of those posts. I didn't really think about the character in either of your terms. I'm terrible at subtext so I always appreciate outside assistance. Would he be considered a product of his environment then? I'm finishing the last 3 chapters of Children of Hurin today so I'm excited to see how it ends.
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Aug 19, 2021 17:16
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Watching fellowship EE (again) and the first 10 minute framing montage is just masterful
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Aug 19, 2021 23:32
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If you don't smile when "concerning hobbits" starts to play I just can't understand you as a person.
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Aug 19, 2021 23:55
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The movie makers really really read and loved the books. It owns
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Aug 20, 2021 00:02
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I just noticed when the ring is in the fire there is a slight slight sample of the nazgul screaming
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Aug 20, 2021 00:05
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Ok just now here in the movie Gandalf says “don’t put it on (the ring), agents of the dark lord are drawn to its power” Now I don’t think this is true in the book and most importantly the balrog isn’t an agent of sauron
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Aug 20, 2021 00:12
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euphronius posted:The movie makers really really read and loved the books. It owns we have done the changes over to death, but this has always been the case. they made some odd choices, but it was not because they were unfamiliar with the books. They read and understood them, and then made choices that were good and bad based on what they thought would work best in a film format.
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Aug 20, 2021 00:13
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Frodo says “look Sam Wood Elves” ! When they are clearly Noldor. Jesus Christ PJ Ok I’ll stop sorry
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Aug 20, 2021 00:13
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to be honest live tweeting the movies would hardly be the worst content this thread has seen
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Aug 20, 2021 00:15
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WoodrowSkillson posted:to be honest live tweeting the movies would hardly be the worst content this thread has seen [soon] Oh, fun fact, did you know when Aragorn kicked the helmet, that-
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Aug 20, 2021 00:23
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Wrong movie !!!
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Aug 20, 2021 00:23
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euphronius posted:I just noticed when the ring is in the fire there is a slight slight sample of the nazgul screaming I have to go watch that now...
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Aug 20, 2021 00:24
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So there seems to be two distinct ways that the Ring interacts with evil beings. The first is it tries to draw evil to it. This really a side effect of the Ring's primary nature, it is used to dominate, and even without a wielder, it can apply subtle pressure to the minds of creatures inclined towards evil. Others have covered this pretty well, but I don't specifically think this would have drawn the Balrog from a distance. The second way seems to be that the ring's power itself is evident to certain people. I mentioned before Gandalf recognizing that Bilbo had some power, but Galadriel seems to have been able to recognize what Frodo was immediately as well. I don't think that this is anything special about the ring, I just think certain types of power are just self evident to certain people. What I don't know is the range or how any of it actually works. I would suspect however that Sauron would be the best at recognizing the ring. Would you have to be looking at a person for this to work? Or is it like a heavy person walking around in your attic making 'noise'? The ring is an incredibly powerful object and it has the greater part of Sauron's power in it. Here's a question, if Frodo walked into Barad-Dur with the ring, without claiming it, would Sauron know that he had it without looking at him? That's the thing with the Balrog, Moria is his domain. He seems to have some sense that something powerful is moving through Moria. Is he detecting Gandalf? Or is the fact that the ring has entered his territory enough to set off some sort of detection that powerful beings have? Gandalf can cloak his power, but the Ring has no reason to do so. Anyway, that's just my thoughts on the matter. You can take it or leave it as is your preference.
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Aug 20, 2021 00:33
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Here’s a question, if Frodo walked into Barad-Dur with the ring, without claiming it, would Sauron know that he had it without looking at him? No. Absolutely not Although Frodo could not have resisted claiming it by that point so it’s kind of academic. He was already falling apart in ithililen
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Aug 20, 2021 00:37
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Fellowship is the best one, by far. It's the one whose changes and omissions were least baffling, anyway, and it has the most consistent tone. The effects have also aged better because they're used more sparingly and smaller scale.
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Aug 20, 2021 00:39
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WoodrowSkillson posted:we have done the changes over to death, but this has always been the case. they made some odd choices, but it was not because they were unfamiliar with the books. They read and understood them, and then made choices that were good and bad based on what they thought would work best in a film format. Peter Jackson is both gifted and a moron. That is to say, he hits some of the big set pieces brilliantly but then also does stuff like making Treebeard and Denethor into morons. I think on balance what we get is way more good than bad, though. They're pretty solid movies. They get the big moments mostly right. Ginette Reno fucked around with this message at 01:08 on Aug 20, 2021 |
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Aug 20, 2021 01:05
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Seeing bilbo turn into a monster it’s interesting in the book he does not but only Frodo sees him as a monster because he’s going crazy
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Aug 20, 2021 01:26
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Ginette Reno posted:Peter Jackson is both gifted and a moron. That is to say, he hits some of the big set pieces brilliantly but then also does stuff like making Treebeard and Denethor into morons. Yeah I’ve said many times that they’re about the best we could’ve hoped for, and likely the best we will ever get. There’s absolutely some stupid stuff in there, and a few awful choices, but a lot of the changes also make sense in a way. And there’s some genuinely great moments too.
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Aug 20, 2021 01:29
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They should have included the werewolves and Gandalf turning into fire god Oh well
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Aug 20, 2021 01:30
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Why didn’t they set up a hobbit relay system to get the ring to mount doom? You get every hobbit in the shire to carry the ring for like five miles, and they’re waiting at their designated handoff point ahead of time instead of hanging around with the ring bearer soaking up its ambient bad vibes (which is what doomed the Fellowship).
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Aug 20, 2021 09:32
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galagazombie posted:Why didn’t they set up a hobbit relay system to get the ring to mount doom? You get every hobbit in the shire to carry the ring for like five miles, and they’re waiting at their designated handoff point ahead of time instead of hanging around with the ring bearer soaking up its ambient bad vibes (which is what doomed the Fellowship). That's a great plan. Although hobbits aren't great at logistics and organisation. You might need someone on hand to keep them organised, knock a bit of discipline into 'em. A few men to keep them on task. Also have you seen the state of their mill? They could really use a new modern efficient brick one. And
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Aug 20, 2021 09:39
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galagazombie posted:Why didn’t they set up a hobbit relay system to get the ring to mount doom? You get every hobbit in the shire to carry the ring for like five miles, and they’re waiting at their designated handoff point ahead of time instead of hanging around with the ring bearer soaking up its ambient bad vibes (which is what doomed the Fellowship). And then you get to the point where the designated bearer is Ted Sandyman and we’ll,
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Aug 20, 2021 11:16
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galagazombie posted:Why didn’t they set up a hobbit relay system to get the ring to mount doom? You get every hobbit in the shire to carry the ring for like five miles, and they’re waiting at their designated handoff point ahead of time instead of hanging around with the ring bearer soaking up its ambient bad vibes (which is what doomed the Fellowship). it would be even more efficient with catapults
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Aug 20, 2021 11:24
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Do the good guys in Middle-earth even use catapults or any kind of warmachine?
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Aug 20, 2021 12:04
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I Love Loosies posted:Do the good guys in Middle-earth even use catapults or any kind of warmachine? It occurs to me that things like catapults are almost exclusively offensive weaponry, and ever since the Last Alliance the Good Guys have been almost 100% on the defensive. Númenor had all kinds of technology (Tolkien apparently had toyed with the idea of them having mechanized warfare and even steam engines and flying machines) but you see where that got them. Considering the almost exclusively defensive posture of the West throughout the story it's pretty clear what JRRT's attitude toward the morality of war was in general.
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Aug 20, 2021 12:11
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Data Graham posted:It occurs to me that things like catapults are almost exclusively offensive weaponry no, they can be, and also were used historically as defensive weapons in sieges
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Aug 20, 2021 12:14
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Jackon has them on the walls of minas tirith. I can’t remember if that was in the book
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Aug 20, 2021 12:21
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Interesting I mean their main usefulness is in knocking down walls of fortifications, right? How effective can they be in like, dispersing crowds of attackers or precision-hitting other siege engines?
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Aug 20, 2021 12:56
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